Mac vs. PC [Archive] - TheHolo.Net Forums

Rutabaga

Apr 12th, 2010, 11:06:57 PM

I can't recall if the Mac vs. PC war has ever really been fought here, so I thought I'd start this thread as a means of getting advice.

Here's what started this...Verizon replaced my ancient modem last week. My net connection was beautiful until I lost it this evening. I spent a lot of time on the phone with Verizon, and nothing we did worked. The Verizon lady is sending me an updated disc with drivers to allow a USB connection between the computer and the modem. In the meantime, she suggested I call Dell because something might be wrong with the network card. So I spent a LONG time on the phone with Dell. No troubleshooting worked to restore the connection, and the tech said that the fact that the network card light is blinking and the data light on the modem is solid green means that the card is communicating just fine with the modem. She gave me one more suggestion to try with Verizon, and if that doesn't work, the only other option she sees is reinstalling Windows.

Sigh.

I'm now coming to the realization that this Dell PC is a piece of junk. When it was only 3 months old, the video card failed. Now at the age of 8 months, I'm facing a possible complete OS reinstall. If it gets that far, I'm going to bitch at Dell to see if I can convince them to replace it. If they won't, I'm thinking it may be time to listen to the pests around me who perpetually say, "You should have bought a Mac."

So what are the opinions of all you tech experts out there? Are Macs all they are touted to be?

BTW, please excuse any typos here...I'm posting this using my iPhone. :)

Emelie Shadowstar

Apr 13th, 2010, 12:09:33 AM

Let me start this off by saying this: I'm far from a "tech expert" but I work with both. I work with both on a regular basis, often moving between mac to pc to mac and back over to the pc multiple times a day.

And it comes down to this:
Personal preference.

There's no "better".

When it comes to PCs, yeah, Windows is a pain in the ass sometimes and yes, there's viruses and spyware and crap that you apparently "don't have to worry about" with a Mac (don't count on that lasting much longer at all) and it can generally just eff up at times. But I've also had PCs (like my current one) where I haven't had a single software issue. My hardware (motherboard in this case) took a crap recently but that was about it. I think I've had to do a reinstall once (it's probably due another at this point)and I've owned this specific PC for about 5 years now. Really the best one I've owned so far. The two previous were nightmares.

As for Mac... my powerbook that got me through college (so it's only slightly older than the PC) really only gave me a problem once and that was apparently there was a motherboard issue where it didn't want to upgrade RAM for some reason. A quick visit to the apple store and about a week later it was fixed and I was back in action. Also had the wireless card die on me, but I got a fix for it, and I rarely use my wireless to begin with so it wasn't really an issue. Still runs like a dream... little laggy on newer flash/video stuff... but come on, it's old as crap at this point by computer standards.

Now... I also have a newer Mac at work... and that thing was basically a lemon. Had some seriously annoying problems that had it have to be taken in for repairs about three times now and it's only about 2 years old now. It has the newest OS on it that has some issues I simply find annoying when it came to backwards compatibility with certain software but if you were starting from scratch you probably won't run into that issue.

So yeah... hardware wise... you get the luck of the draw either way. Macs are FINE. But so are PCs. Really - if you are comfortable with Windows, and more importantly like using it when it works, then go with a PC. If you go to an Apple store and play with a Mac for a while and like the way their OS is set up and feel it'd be a better fit for you, go for that... but again, it's nice... when it works right.

Keep in mind that the "average" software/website/etc will be designed for PC use. Now... does this mean you'll run into problems with a Mac? Probably not... but I do occasionally get hiccups on stuff (sending photos through email from a mac to a PC continues to be an annoying issue to actually make them be an attachment the person can save), and there are other small things that do require some adaptation if you are going over to Mac that you basically run in to from time to time.

But yeah... personal preference is the key here. You can end up with some crappy hardware that will cause you constant problems with a Mac just the same you can a PC. If you're going PC though... go for a better brand, that's about all I can recommend there. Just remember... long warranties are nice and all... but if you have to send your computer away every few months for repairs it probably isn't worth it...even if it's "free" :P As for a brand to recommend PC-wise, well... I'll leave that to someone else. Mine's an Alienware (overpriced silliness, really. But hey... worked better than both Toshiba laptops I owned before.), but I got mine before they got bought out/associated with Dell... so can't really speak for them anymore. lol

Nathanial K'cansce

Apr 13th, 2010, 04:44:39 AM

I'll give a short answer here.

I have both a PC Desktop and a Macbook Pro.

My PC desktop does not work and seems to crash every time I get it to work. Had to re-install windows XP Pro multiple times and just installed windows 7... and I still cannot get it to work completely.

My Macbook Pro works. And has not stopped working since I got it about a year ago.

Yes, macs live up to their hype. Minus gaming. I want gaming on here.

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 13th, 2010, 05:28:20 AM

And it comes down to this:
Personal preference.

There's no "better".

I AM a technical guru and computers are my living. You are wrong, there is a better.

A Mac is in fact LESS secure than Windows 7. There are plenty of spyware and malware that attacks Macs and it's next to impossible to remove. A Mac does not conenct to the extreme range of devices Windows 7 can. I have cameras that will not talk to a MAc and yet they sing with Win7. A Mac does not network as well as Win7 does. This is not an opinion, this is someone who will hurl a fucking Mac out the window before dealin gwith it's obstinance and ridiculous bullshit that gets in my way from doing real work. Hell, Macs have issues talkign to Apple servers and yet Win7..? Click, bang, on.

Oh, drivers? Piece of piss on Win7 now. Macs? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA oh dear you better hope there's one because the generic hacks are evil.

Apple has absolutly NO advantages over a PC and PC will be cheaper.

Fuck, even Ubuntu is better and that's just a bunch of hackers who have fun, not a billion dollar corporation

Dont drink the fucking Apple Kool-aid - and that's what it is. Win7 Pro, cheap good hardware, good to go.

Rutabaga

Apr 13th, 2010, 06:31:29 AM

Thanks for the advice, and if anyone else has any input, I'd appreciate all the info I can get. What I use my computer for is mainly web-surfing and email. No gaming (except for the Flash and Java games at websites). I occasionally hook my Kodak digital camera up to it. And that's about it.

My sister has had only 2 computers over the course of over 10 years, and they've been Macs. She really sings their praises. I do know that in general, computer stuff is geared toward PC and not Mac, but I don't know how heavily that would impact me because of my general usage of the computer.

I just hate the idea of a complete Windows reinstall in such a "young" computer. I went through it on my last computer (it was the Geek Squad that did it for me). And I hated the fact that I lost a lot of software, like my DVD drive never worked again. Dell did send me some discs, and the tech last night said I could also download stuff from their website but, ugh, what a hassle. Then here's my biggest fear...what if I reinstall Windows and it doesn't work, and I still have no net connection? Then what?

All I know is, I spent almost 3 hours on the phone for tech support last night, and I'm going to have to call Verizon again tonight when I get home from work. If the one last bit of advice from Dell doesn't work, then I'll be calling Dell back. And who knows what will happen after that. Oh joy.

Yog

Apr 13th, 2010, 06:42:12 AM

Gotta agree with DT here.

Sure, Windows can be clunky to use. But the Macintosh has terrible software and driver support. It would be nice to plug in a device and expect it to work, and not worry about it being Mac compatible at all times. It would be nice to do something else than run basic desktop applications, such as games for example, or mainstream software, without having to search for options all the time. And when you finally do get technical problem of significance, good luck getting it resolved. Not to mention, it's actually a far less secure machine than windows PC's nowadays.

Don't get me wrong, Apple made some innovative and well designed gadgets, such as iPod, iPhone and iPad, so I have nothing against them as a company. But in terms of PC vs Mac, you'd paying more money for less power and versatility. You'll be lulled into the habbit of using a machine that is not the industry standard. I know all too well what kind of frustrations that leads to.

Sorry to hear you had problems with your Dell. Unfortunately, computer issues still happen in this day and age, unless it has a NASA logo, and even then, stuff may get FUBAR'ed. My suggestion is to stick with PC's, and simply get it resolved and set up to perform nicely. It will save you a lot of headaches in the long run.

Rutabaga

Apr 13th, 2010, 07:59:41 AM

Okay, I'm convinced, sticking with a PC seems the wisest option. If I did go Mac, with my luck recently, I'd end up with a lemon anyways :x.

Here's my plan for what I'm going to do after work:

Call Verizon and ask them to follow through on the last bit of advice the Dell tech gave me.

If Verizon doesn't fix it, I'll call Dell. First, I'll try the "it's still under warranty so will you replace it?" tactic. If that doesn't work, I'll ask about a tech coming out to do the Windows reinstall and upgrade me to Windows 7 while they're at it. (I've come to realize that yeah, Vista has issues.). If they won't do that, I'll do the reinstall with their help via phone. If the reinstall doesn't work, then I'll probably say, "Screw it," turn the computer into a doorstop, and buy a new PC at Best Buy.

I know eventually everything will be back to normal, but this is incredibly aggravating.

Morgan Evanar

Apr 13th, 2010, 09:46:23 AM

Why are you connecting with the modem via USB.

Don't ever do that. Ever.

Dasquian Belargic

Apr 13th, 2010, 10:37:23 AM

I use Windows 7 on a Packard Bell desktop and I have yet to have any problems with it.

The guy I live with his an Apple desktop and laptop which he also has no problems with. He is a graphic designer and works a lot from home, so I think maybe the software on the Mac is better for this? At least that's the impression I always got.

Saladin

Apr 13th, 2010, 10:47:29 AM

I got the idea the USB was a workaround because the network card is unresponsive. At the very least, if it works, it'll prove that the problem's not in the modem or in Verizon's service.

Sorry to hear about your PC problems, and I wish you luck with tech support. Replacing the network card really ought to be an easy and inexpensive fix. Now, my brother got wonderful service on his Dell Studio laptop, but he has the accidental damage service plan. I've heard mixed reviews of Dell's customer service otherwise.

@Dasq, Mac has been very successful in establishing itself as the standard in the artistic/creative sector, but I think it's as much an image thing as anything else. PCs offer much more flexibility and economy, especially when you factor in peripheral tools.

Rutabaga

Apr 13th, 2010, 02:03:51 PM

The Dell tech had said that since the orange light was flashing on the network card and the "data" light was a steady green on the modem, then the network card is functioning properly. The only way I would consider using the USB hookup would be to determine once and for all if the network card is really truly functioning.

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 13th, 2010, 04:04:23 PM

The guy I live with his an Apple desktop and laptop which he also has no problems with. He is a graphic designer and works a lot from home, so I think maybe the software on the Mac is better for this? At least that's the impression I always got.

He's drinking the Apple Kool-aid. The software on Macs and the hardware support these days lags behind Windows.

Wait what do I mean "these days"? It always has, apart from the fuckup that was Vista.

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 13th, 2010, 04:09:45 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 13th, 2010, 07:24:57 PM

and the tech said that the fact that the network card light is blinking and the data light on the modem is solid green means that the card is communicating just fine with the modem. She gave me one more suggestion to try with Verizon, and if that doesn't work, the only other option she sees is reinstalling Windows.

Sigh.

Actually, this is not necessarily true. It certainly in most cases would be but I think not in this case. What I would be wondering is if the PC is picking up DHCP properly. So do this.

Click on Start, then Run

Type in cmd and click run

When the black box appears, type in "ipconfig" without the quotations and press enter.

Report back what you got.

Before I answer that question, let me update this a little...I spent a while on the phone with a really wonderful guy at Verizon tonight. He ran some maintenance tests on his end, and at one point he said that the modem doesn't seem to be receiving the signal. We even tried resetting the modem, and that didn't work. So what he's had me do next is turn the modem off for 3 hours, then turn it back on. They will give me a follow-up call after work tomorrow to see if that worked, and if not, we'll go from there. The tech did NOT want to commit to this being a modem failure, and I can understand that...he doesn't want to make any promises or commitments that might turn out to be false.

So when I just ran the ipconfig command, DT, what I got back on everything is "media disconnected." I'm presuming this is because the modem is off...? I'll update you tomorrow after the modem is back on and I'll let you know what it says at that point. If turning the modem off after a 3 hour rest doesn't do the trick but then you could perhaps help me narrow it down to a possible network card problem, I would be forever in your debt. The last thing I want to do is reinstall Windows unless I have NO other choice. I do NOT want to take an irrevocable action and then discover that it didn't help and was unnecessary.

Lykaios

Apr 13th, 2010, 08:20:42 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 13th, 2010, 09:24:16 PM

Since you're talking about Verizon I'm going to assume you're in the USA, if you are and the fixes you're trying don't work and DELL doesn't want to replace the problematic PC with the new one, I'd recommend writing an actual letter to their Headquarters and CC the FTC and the Better Business Bureau, I guarantee you your claim will be resolved to your satisfaction in no time.

Yup, I'm in the US, in California, to be exact. Thank you for the advice, I'll definitely take it under advisement if needed.

I'm a lucky girl, I have a coworker who has lent me her notebook computer with built-in wireless for the duration. It's super slow, so I can't do everything I want to do, but I'm not going to look a gift horse in the mouth, that's for sure. I can also do certain things on my iPhone, but not everything, of course. But at least I don't feel completely cut off and adrift.

Captain Untouchable

Apr 14th, 2010, 05:32:44 AM

The biggest difference, IMO, is that it's much easier to get a PC to do what *you* want.

Mac's are great for doing what they're programmed to do: great for graphics applications, video editing, and as a "home media" device. If you've got other Apple gadgets too - iPods, iPads, iPhones, etc - they jive together great, too... and formatting an iPod to work with a Mac actually uses a more efficient compression technique, so you squeeze a little extra capacity out (though it won't jive with a PC anymore without special software). If you just need a computer to post on Fans, make avatars, listen to music, watch movies... a Mac is probably great.

A PC on the other hand is much easier to customise. There are far more open source programs out there written for PCs, mainly because most programmers use a PC rather than a Mac: there may not even be a Mac version in some instances. And with non-free programs, Mac versions are often more expensive. Beyond that, if you want to play games on your machine, it's much easier to customise a PC to meet with those system requirements.

On top of that, the Mac OS bugs me, because it's a lot easier to make it do things the way I want them done. :\

If you're just looking for something basic, and have no desire to be all tech guru and customise things to the hilt, you'll probably be fine with a Mac. If you want to reserve the option to be a little adventurous, do things that are outside "the box" in terms of what the machine is programmed to do, and evolve your machine over time however, a PC is probably the better call.

Rutabaga

Apr 14th, 2010, 06:22:36 AM

and the tech said that the fact that the network card light is blinking and the data light on the modem is solid green means that the card is communicating just fine with the modem. She gave me one more suggestion to try with Verizon, and if that doesn't work, the only other option she sees is reinstalling Windows.

Sigh.

Actually, this is not necessarily true. It certainly in most cases would be but I think not in this case. What I would be wondering is if the PC is picking up DHCP properly. So do this.

Click on Start, then Run

Type in cmd and click run

When the black box appears, type in "ipconfig" without the quotations and press enter.

Report back what you got.

I was not holding my breath that the 3-hour rest for the modem would make a difference, and I'm glad it didn't. It didn't work. So I'll see what happens when Verizon calls me back tonight. Oh, and btw, the Dell tech from Monday's call also called me back last night for an update, she also understands that I'm only willing to consider a complete OS reinstallation if there is simply no other choice.

So, DT, here is what I get when I type ipconfig into the command box:

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection

Connection-specific DNS Suffix:
Link-local IPv6 Address....: fe80:fdif:fe79:4ca9:9996%11
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address....: 169.254.153.150
Subnet Mask...: 255.255.010
Default Gateway....:

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:
Media State...: Media disconnected
Connection-specfic DNS Suffix...:

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:
Media State....: Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix....:

The Verizon tech on Monday mentioned that the "169" in the IP address is a bad IP address and indicates an inability to connect.

Park Kraken

Apr 14th, 2010, 06:55:53 AM

I haven't ever used a Mac, nor do I know of anyone off hand who has used a Mac. But I do know this, in my experience and in the experiences I've heard from others, homebuilt machines using parts ordered off of various websites such as Tigerdirect and NewEgg for example, have lasted much longer in both the hardware and software department insofar as problems go as compared to machines prebuilt from companies such as Dell and Compaq.

The first homebuilt computer I had went down twice, both times to accumulated trojans and viruses on the internet, over the three year period I owned it. In the end, I ended up getting rid of it because it was an outdated gaming computer, and so far the new homebuilt rig I've had for a year and two months has given me nil in the way of problems.

That's compared to previous computers we've ordered from Dell, Hewitt Packard, and Compaq that have crapped out several times in the first year we've owned them.

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 14th, 2010, 08:23:26 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 15th, 2010, 06:50:45 AM

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection

Connection-specific DNS Suffix:
Link-local IPv6 Address....: fe80:fdif:fe79:4ca9:9996%11
Autoconfiguration IPv4 Address....: 169.254.153.150
Subnet Mask...: 255.255.010
Default Gateway....:

Hmmmmmm. I would be going for a new ethernet cable first.

Verizon is in HUGE trouble with me now. The promised call-back for last night never occurred. So there will be much yelling at them when I get home from work tonight. As far as I'm concerned, they now need to grovel and bend over backwards to restore my confidence in them.

I will tell them about your advice, DT, thank you. I do wonder if there's something up with the cable. When I first plugged it into the new modem last week, the DATA light would flicker instead of staying steady. I called Verizon that night and the tech I talked to said that the flickering light was normal. Well, on my initial call to Verizon Monday night, that tech had me reverse the cable, and once I did that, the DATA light was staying steady. I found that quite odd.

Just as an aside, the INTERNET light has NEVER been on on the modem, even when I had the good connection for a week. The same tech who told me about the flickering DATA light being okay was confused by that info but basically said, "Well, you're surfing the net right now, so I wouldn't be worried about that." The same friend who has loaned me her notebook said the INTERNET light on her modem has never been on either, so I don't know if this is a potential issue at all.

I'm just glad that I've got some slight amount of tech savvy and that I have people here online who are willing and able to give me some advice as well. Can you imagine how this would have gone with someone who barely understood how to even turn a computer on? At this point, they would have reinstalled Windows per the Dell tech's suggestion, and who knows if that would have solved the problem?

Rutabaga

Apr 15th, 2010, 07:54:11 PM

I got off the phone with Verizon a while ago, and some action is finally happening. Action that I didn't have to scream and yell to get.

The tech I talked to tonight had me jump through a couple of the hoops I'd already jumped through, then he took all the info and escalated the issue to a network specialist. (He even asked me to run the ipconfig command, DT, and he gave that info to the network specialist.) End result is, he said there's a problem with the network that will need to be investigated by local techs. Sounds like they'll start with the central office and things outside of my apartment, and if that doesn't work and they need access to my apartment, they'll give me a call so I can come let them in.

I feel a little more relieved tonight now that it seems like somebody is actually doing something. And I'm also relieved that I didn't follow the advice about reinstalling Windows, if this truly is a network problem and not Dell problem.

So keep your fingers crossed. If this works and I get back online smoothly, I then plan to call Verizon one more time to demand a credit for the days I was offline. It's the least they can do for me!

Blade Bacquin

Apr 16th, 2010, 01:41:31 AM

Rutabaga

Apr 16th, 2010, 06:22:19 AM

It sounds almost like the headache I had with my ISP midco once. What happened was I ran thru a bunch a hoops just to find someone on the local level who was sent to my apartment building to make sure someone Else's internet was turned off accidentally had mine turned off instead.

I had to laugh when I read this, because the exact same thing happened last year with my cable. It was out for a few hours and I presumed it was out in the whole building. Then I found out it was just me, so I called Comcast. A tech came out the next day, and within 10 seconds of him climbing the ladder to check the connection, my picture was back. He came back up to the apartment and said that the plug had been pulled on my connection by mistake, probably when someone else's was supposed to be pulled. So it was an easy fix, although Comast charged me 25 bucks for the service call :shakefist.

I'm curious to see how long it will take Verizon to fix the problem. Overall, though, the tech last night left me with a good deal of confidence that this is indeed a Verizon network problem and not a computer software or hardware problem.

Rutabaga

Apr 16th, 2010, 10:52:20 AM

I got a voicemail on my cell phone barely after 8 from Verizon telling me that my DSL appears to be working now. I'm going home at lunch to check for sure...I hope they're right!!!

Rutabaga

Apr 16th, 2010, 01:23:42 PM

The message on my home answering machine was different from the one on my cell. This message said they'd run a bunch of tests on my line and everything was showing as being just fine and dandy. If I still had problems, I should call them again.

As soon as I heard that message, I knew I was screwed.

Of course I still had no connection. So I will be calling again after work.

:shakefist

Morgan Evanar

Apr 16th, 2010, 03:07:11 PM

Can you tell me what kind of DSL modem they sent you?

Rutabaga

Apr 16th, 2010, 04:20:31 PM

It's a Westell 6110, I believe. I'm at work on my iPhone at the moment.

I did a little no-no and did some research at work on this 169.254 ISP issue, and I now see it's a semi- common network-related problem. I printed out a bunch of articles with different ideas on how to resolve it, so I'm going to try some stuff on my own since I'm sick and tired of dealing with tech support over the phone.

I do have some suspicions that the Ethernet cable may not be working correctly.

Rutabaga

Apr 16th, 2010, 07:33:17 PM

Okay, to all the tech experts out there, I found this comment posted after one of the articles I've found online about this whole 169.254.*.* issue, I'm curious if this is something you'd recommend:

The best way I have found this issue to be resolved if all else fails like
netsh winsock reset catalog (vista)
or netsh winsock reset (XP)
try resetting the TCP/IP Stack in cmd prompt which is netsh int ip reset resetlog.txt
see if that works. Sometimes as i have learnt Winsock does not always repair the issue even though it's a last resort cmd. but resetting the tcp/ip stack can sometimes resolve this issue.

Someone farther down basically said hallelujah, after 8 hours of struggling with this, it worked. So...what do you think? Is this something worth trying if nothing else seems to work?

Morgan Evanar

Apr 16th, 2010, 09:40:06 PM

Try manually setting the ip address of you computer.
make the ip 192.168.1.20
the subnet mask 255.255.255.0
the gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS: 208.67.220.220
208.67.222.222

and report back.

Rutabaga

Apr 17th, 2010, 08:39:02 AM

Try manually setting the ip address of you computer.
make the ip 192.168.1.20
the subnet mask 255.255.255.0
the gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS: 208.67.220.220
208.67.222.222

and report back.

Since cables are inexpensive, I'm going to start by getting new ones this morning and giving that a whirl. I have a co-worker who builds and networks his own computers, and he's mystified why the ethernet cable that came with the new modem would cause the DATA light to be steady when plugged in one way but cause it to only blink sporadically when plugged in in the opposite direction. He says this simply doesn't make sense because those cords are universal.

If the cables don't work, Morgan, I'm going to try your suggestion. Just one question...I'm using Vista :x, and I have both IPv4 and IPv6 enabled. Should I input this info in both IPv4 and IPv6? Some stuff I've found online has mentioned disabling IPv6, but I'm not completely sure how to do that.

I am determined to try and solve this on my own with both the input of you fine folks here and other online resources. Right now I have little faith that either Verizon or Dell is going to be able to help, unless I insist that Dell send a tech who's a supreme expert in Vista out to look over the computer. And I'm still determined to demand a replacement computer if nothing works. This is getting ridiculous and I am seriously getting exhausted and very, VERY cranky.

BTW, I found this one seemingly excellent source of info:

http://www.daniweb.com/forums/thread73818.html

Lots of suggestions and info there. I'm especially intrigued by the final post that was made last month:

"I was told by ISP that VISTA locks the internet connection, necessitating reboot of the modem. I was advised to configure my connection as a "Public Connection" and I wouldn't have the problem. This is a known VISTA issue."

Oh, and another BTW, my sister finally pulled the "HAHAHAHA, loser, you should have gotten a Mac line" on me last night in an email. I won't even respond to that right now. It's like rubbing salt in a very open wound. I hate it when she does that.

Rutabaga

Apr 17th, 2010, 11:22:27 AM

Try manually setting the ip address of you computer.
make the ip 192.168.1.20
the subnet mask 255.255.255.0
the gateway 192.168.1.1
DNS: 208.67.220.220
208.67.222.222

and report back.

Update: Replacing the cables did nothing new. So I did as you suggested, Morgan, and this did not work either. Oh, and I also disabled IPv6 just by unclicking the box, I figured that's all I needed to do. And I reset the modem as well, just in case.

Here's what I get when I run ipconfigl:

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix . :
IPv4 Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.20
Subnet Mask . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.1

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . . . :

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media state . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . . . .:

Now, here is what I get when I run ipconfig /all:

Host Name. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . Ruth-PC
Primary DNS Suffix . . . . . . . . . . . .
Node Type . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .
IP Routing Enabled . . . . . . . . . . . . No
WINS Proxy Enabled . . . . . . . . . . . No

Ethernet adapter Local Area Connection:

Connection-specific DNS Suffix. . . . :
Description. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Interl(R) 82567LF-2 Gigabit Network Connection
Physical Address. . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 00-24-E8-14-60-56
DHCP Enabled . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . . . . : Yes
IPv4 Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 192.168.1.20 (Preferred)
Subnet Mask. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 255.255.255.0
Default Gateway . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :192.168.1.1
DNS Servers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : 208.67.220.220
208.67.222.222
NetBIOS over Tcpip . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Enabled

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 6:

Media State. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix . . . . . :
Description. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Microsoft ISATAP Adapter
Physical Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :00-00-00-00-00-00-00-E0
DHCP Enabled . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :No
Autoconfiguration Enabled . . . . . . . . . : Yes

Tunnel adapter Local Area Connection* 7:

Media State . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : Media disconnected
Connection-specific DNS Suffix. . . . . . :
Description. . . . . . . . . . . .. . . . . . . . : Teredo Tunneling Pseudo-Interface
Physical Address . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . :02-00-54-55-4E-01
DHCP Enabled. . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . : No
Autoconfiguration Enabled. . . . . . . . . . : Yes

Now, I don't know if this means anything or not, but when I went in to the network properties and enabled IPv6 just for the hell of it, I got some sort of message about needing to have a network interface device installed to use TC/IP, or something like that. (Please remember that while I do have some small amount of tech savvy, I'm actually somewhat of a doofus when it comes to this really meaty fiddling around in the computer's deepest, darkest innards.) Does this possibly mean it really is my NIC going bad? Or am I just assuming things?

Morgan Evanar

Apr 17th, 2010, 12:43:56 PM

Open a command prompt, type "ping 192.168.1.1".

I'm going off Verizon's modem docs, so that should be correct. I might have some free time later, and I can help you troubleshoot over the phone if you want. Shoot me a PM.

It does sound like a bad NIC, but it very well could be a mis-configured modem. You should be able to get a cheap PCI NIC for $20. It's your easiest/cheapest way around this for the time being. It's stupid-easy to install. You turn the power off, take the side panel off, remove the slot dust cover panel with a philips screw driver, put the card in the slot that it fits in (it will be white and about 4" long), put that screw in to secure it, plug it back in and test fire it up. You could get a USB ethernet adapter but they're typically pricier and require drivers more often than not.

Rutabaga

Apr 17th, 2010, 01:05:34 PM

Here's the ping results:

Pinging 192.168.1.1 with 32 bytes of data:
Reply from 192.168.1.20: Destination host unreachable
Request timed out.
Request timed out.
Reply from 192.168.1.20: Destination host unreachable.

Ping statistics from 192.168.1.1:
Packets: Sent = 4, Received = 2, Lost = 2 (50% loss).

The computer is only 8 months old and under warranty still, so if anything needs to be replaced, I think Dell should come out and do it. I've also been continuing to do research online about this issue, and it looks like it's a MAJOR problem that people have been having with Vista. I wonder if Windows 7 does the same thing? XP never did.

Thanks for the offer of phone troubleshooting, I may take you up on that offer eventually. :)

Park Kraken

Apr 17th, 2010, 03:08:11 PM

Your using Vista? Eew, no wonder your having problems. I'd recommend either going back to XP or advancing forward to Windows 7.

Rutabaga

Apr 17th, 2010, 04:03:39 PM

Your using Vista? Eew, no wonder your having problems. I'd recommend either going back to XP or advancing forward to Windows 7.

That, my friends, is what is about to happen. An upgrade to Windows 7.

I just spent 2 hours with a very helpful Dell tech in Manila who did a whole shitload of troubleshooting. He was able to eliminate all hardware errors and was left with this being Vista's fault. He was very familiar with my complaint because he said they'd gotten many calls about the same issue, and he had experienced it on his own computer not once, but FIVE times. He really recommended upgrading to Windows 7. He said he loves it on his computer and has no problems, and he also said all customers he's assisted with the upgrade have also been very pleased. He said he personally has heard of NO complaints like this 169 ip issue with Windows 7.

So I boo-hoo'd and gave him my credit card number for the Windows 7 Home Premium upgrade. It will be here in 3-5 days, and he will call me back next Saturday to personally guide me through the upgrade. I will spend the next week backing up anything else I might need...I already have my iTunes library and photos plus a couple of other things stored on my external hard drive, and there are a few other things I'm sure I'll add that I want to keep.

In the meantime, I've discovered that my friend's notebook works beautifully on my DSL line (she claimed she could never get it to work on her own DSL at home, she always uses the wireless connection). and maybe it will move faster on my DSL than it does on her wireless.

My stress level is now reduced tremendously, since I now have the answer and just need to wait for the solution.

I want to thank everyone here for their advice and attempts at helping, I really really appreciate it. You're all pretty cool in my book. :hug

Morgan Evanar

Apr 17th, 2010, 05:45:54 PM

Windows 7. It just works better.

Rutabaga

Apr 17th, 2010, 08:54:45 PM

I actually had someone at Facebook try to tell me that I'm going from bad to worse by upgrading to Windows 7. O_o

Plus a high school friend at FB made his typical "you should have bought a Mac" comment like I knew he would. Sometimes I wish there was a way to reach through the Internet and pinch people. Really hard. :evil

Loklorien s'Ilancy

Apr 18th, 2010, 07:13:19 AM

I find this thread strangely uplifting, and smiled at the end result when I read that you discovered the problem and started working on the solution v:)v Don't ask me why, it's a weird sort of feel-good thing I guess.

And tell your friends their little 'I told you so' attitude isn't appreciated. They have their own preferences, but so do you, and there's no reason for them to behave as such.

Rutabaga

Apr 18th, 2010, 10:20:29 AM

That moment where the problem and needed solution were identified was a huge relief. I found myself wondering why the heck I didn't get this service tech from the get-go, I might have been able to avoid a lot of aggravation and stress. :o

I just finished backing up every single scrap of information that I think I might have even the slightest bit of need for. I also did some research at the Microsoft website to see what there is that's new in Windows 7 and what to expect...I found that it's possible to do just an upgrade from Vista Home Premium to Windows 7 Home Premium, which will just install the OS and leave everything else as it is. The other option is the custom installation, which wipes out everything and leaves me with a clean slate. I'm going to be curious to see which option the tech uses on Saturday...I'd prefer the upgrade option, needless to say, but if he insists on the custom option, then at least I'm prepared to try to rebuild everything from scratch afterwards.

I did end up telling my sister politely to basically STFU about buying a Mac, I asked her to quit rubbing salt in the wound. She got the message, it seems. And karma is a bitch, she emailed this morning and said she's going to have to buy a new refrigerator because the current one has broken down. :lol

As it is, I've always been satisfied with having a PC and don't have any real desire to switch over to a Mac since overall PCs work very well for me. On Windows 98 I used to get the dreaded BSODs all the time, but my only problem with XP was the one time it committed suicide and the Geek Squad reinstalled it. My only mistake on the current computer was not waiting to upgrade until Windows 7 came out. I'd heard the crap about Vista but had friends at work who said they had no problems, so I went ahead and did it. If I had waited a few more months, I could have gotten a Windows 7 machine and avoided this whole issue. But c'est la vie, what's done is done.

Vista truly is crap. It's a POS beyond belief. The friend who loaned me her notebook has Vista on her desktop at home and is now probably going to upgrade to Windows 7 after I've done it. She hasn't had the same problem I just went through, but she's had other problems, like the computer freezing or rebooting itself. So she figures it's time to head off any further problems and just do the upgrade too. So if she's learned something from my experience, then that's a good thing :).

Figrin D'an

Apr 18th, 2010, 12:54:35 PM

Moving from Vista to 7 will be a night and day difference for you in terms of stability and user friendliness. 7 is really what Vista should have been. Microsoft had an above average operating system in XP, and a very good one in Windows 7, it's too bad people had to be subjected to Vista, which might as well have been like an alpha test for Windows 7 (and that might be giving Vista too much credit).

Morgan Evanar

Apr 19th, 2010, 06:50:28 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 19th, 2010, 07:27:54 PM

I had good luck with Vista, but I didn't install until after Service Pack 1 came out. I also had/have very well supported hardware.

But it can be very problematic.

Rutabaga, you don't need a tech to come out and install it. It holds your hand very gently.

Hand-holding will be very welcome :lol. I know a lot about how to use a computer, but when it comes to the actual physical guts of the thing, I'm clueless. I find the idea of upgrading the OS to be pretty intimidating. No tech is physically going to come out and do it, but the young man I spoke to on Saturday is going to call me back and guide me over the phone. I hope we use the option where we just upgrade the OS and leave everything else in place :).

Rutabaga

Apr 21st, 2010, 06:53:23 AM

Ugh. Just checked the UPS tracking on my Windows 7 shipment. Although it's only traveling from Texas to California, and although the tech said it would reach me in 3-5 days, the tracking number reports the scheduled delivery date as April 26th. Which is Monday. So when the tech calls me back on Saturday, the software won't be here yet. :ohno

Well, we'll see what date we can reschedule. Maybe we'll have to do it one evening after work next week. Otherwise it will have to wait until the following Saturday. :grumble

EDIT: So I post this on Facebook, and here's what the person who said I was going from bad to worse by going from Vista to Windows 7 said:

Why would you buy that crap anyway? XP Pro only just got all the bugs out of it after 4 years before they released that money pit that doesn't communicate with anything else on a mixed network.

Hm. Somebody has a bug up his butt, it seems. O_o

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 21st, 2010, 09:13:07 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 22nd, 2010, 06:33:10 AM

EDIT: So I post this on Facebook, and here's what the person who said I was going from bad to worse by going from Vista to Windows 7 said:

Why would you buy that crap anyway? XP Pro only just got all the bugs out of it after 4 years before they released that money pit that doesn't communicate with anything else on a mixed network.
Hm. Somebody has a bug up his butt, it seems. O_o

Someone has no idea what the fuck they are going on about. Friend me on Facebook and I'll deal with him ^_^

That's what I figured. :lol

Would love to friend you on FB, which way should I look you up? Or you can find me at http://www.facebook.com/rutabaga64. And anybody else here at SWFans is more than welcome to friend me too :).

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 22nd, 2010, 04:50:23 PM

Rutabaga

Apr 22nd, 2010, 07:08:55 PM

OMG! :lol :lol :lol

I'll give you the link to my status where the chucklehead said what I posted, if you want to take a shot at him. :evil

Rutabaga

Apr 23rd, 2010, 06:38:27 AM

Just checked the UPS tracking info, and my software will be delivered TODAY. So I'll be all ready to go when the Dell tech calls me back tomorrow afternoon. If all goes well, I should be back to full power on my computer shortly after that. I'll let y'all know how it goes :).

Morgan Evanar

Apr 23rd, 2010, 09:14:14 AM

Hooray! Hope all goes well and it isn't a hardware problem.

Rutabaga

Apr 24th, 2010, 03:27:07 PM

After not getting a call from Dell, I decided to trust you, Morgan, that this will hold my hand gently and I can do this myself. I have already started the process using the "upgrade" option. Hopefully I will have a functioning computer running Windows 7 AND a working Internet connection when this is done!

Rutabaga

Apr 24th, 2010, 05:09:17 PM

OK...my upgrade is complete.

AND I AM STILL NOT ONLINE.

:cry :shakefist :grumble

Rutabaga

Apr 24th, 2010, 05:31:55 PM

On hold for software dept. at Dell, tech said she was very familiar with this problem. This bug is DEEP and requires a hard drive reformat and clean install.

I think I'm going to cry. I almost want to throw this piece of shit out the window and just buy a new computer.

EDIT: I was on hold for the software department for so long that I finally gave up. I also had nearly 2 weeks of stress and anger come spilling out of me, and I've made a decision that many will dispute. But it's the right thing for me, because I've come to the end of my rope and I just can't take this anymore.

I'm going to Best Buy tomorrow and turning my current computer into a doorstop. I'm just going to consider it a learning experience, and since life has given me a lemon, I'm going to take steps to make some lemonade.

I also just have to keep reminding myself of how fortunate I am to be in a position to make a decision like this.

The only thing I know at this point is that I will NOT purchase another Dell computer. I know this latest screw-up was not their fault, it was Microsoft's, but with this debacle combined with the video card crumping when the machine was only 3 months old, I just don't have a good feeling about them any more.

Once everything is settled down, I'll probably write a letter to Dell telling them what I think of them right now. It may not result in anything but a "gee, we're sorry" response, but...whatever.

Thanks again for all your help. I really do appreciate it.

Darth Turbogeek

Apr 24th, 2010, 06:35:56 PM

A FORMAT???

Oh I dont think so, I think it's Dell issue, not Microsoft. Pity you cant just ship it to me, I'm sure I'd have it going in 30 minutes.

Rutabaga

Apr 25th, 2010, 06:50:35 AM

A FORMAT???

Oh I dont think so, I think it's Dell issue, not Microsoft. Pity you cant just ship it to me, I'm sure I'd have it going in 30 minutes.

I'll bet you would!

The more I think about this decision, the more comfortable I am with it. It all comes down to peace of mind. I've been through 2 weeks of stress, spending hours on the phone with tech support, and being assured last week that the upgrade to Windows 7 would solve my problem. This is also the second time a tech (first one was Verizon) did NOT follow through on a promise to call me back. I'm through. I just can't take it anymore. If it's going to cost me a few hundred dollars to get that peace of mind I need, then so be it. And thank God I'm in a financial situation where this will NOT hurt a bit.

I'd just better get online with the new computer right away or else I don't know what I'll do! :shootin

I am definitely going to send a letter to Dell explaining why I will no longer purchase a computer from them and will not recommend them to anyone. I will delineate everything going back to the failure of the video card when the computer was only 3 months old, a repair which was misdiagnosed by their telephone tech person and ended up delaying getting the computer back up and running. I will CC the letter to the Better Business Bureau and the FCC. I will probably not get anything back from them, but at least I will be able to vent my spleen and let them know what I think of them.

Rutabaga

Apr 25th, 2010, 12:05:33 PM

Back from Best Buy, I've selected what appears to be a really nice HP laptop. I figured I'd better join the laptop brigade, since technology is moving in that direction and I have no doubt that desktops will cease to exist eventually. I just checked the BB website, and this particular laptop is highly rated, something like 4.8 out of 5.0 with 120 reviews posted. So I'm feeling pretty comfortable with the selection. And the price isn't bad at all, so I can't complain.

The only hitch was that they had none in stock today. It's in stock at the store in San Luis Obispo, which is about a 30 minute drive away, but I'm just not up to that effort right now. But 3 are supposed to be delivered to the local store tomorrow, and the salesman I talked to is starting work at 5pm tomorrow, so I'll got back there at 5 tomorrow and complete the transaction.

So, God willing and the creek don't rise, I should be up and running by about 6pm tomorrow evening. :)