March Madness

[Jedi Master Carr]

I meant to do this earlier but here it is a thread for this. So far we have had an exciting tournament. We have had multiple upsets and the biggest was yesterday Northern Iowa's win over Kansas. Everybody was picking Kansas to win this year so it was even bigger. Can't deny St. Mary's and Cornell's impressive runs so far either. Right now I give Syracuse the advantage to win, but I think this is the most up in the air tourney we have had since Syracuse won a few years ago.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Two great games today and two upsets with Xavier upending Pitt and Cornell over Wisconsin.

[CMJ]

It's been an incredible tournament so far. We have five schools from the non power leagues in the Sweet 16(Butler, Xavier, St Mary's, Cornell, & Northern Iowa) which is the most I can remember. I hope one of them can make the Final Four.


The prohibitive favorite going forward is Kentucky in my eyes. So much talent and depth

[Jedi Master Carr]

Kentucky has a lot of youth though. I think that is why I lean towards Syracuse they have the experience edge and have talent to keep up with Kentucky. I think one of those 5 teams can make it to the final 4. I think Northern Iowa has the best chance.

[CMJ]

Youth didn't hurt Syracuse in 2003. Generally you want a junior/senior laden team, but it's not absolutely necessary

[Jedi Master Carr]

I just don't know, Kentucky has looked vulnerable on several occasions. I think that is why this tourney has been so unpredictable. All of the top teams have shown vulnerability.

[CMJ]

Don't they always? Name a team that waltzed thru a season without looking vulnerable at one time. I'm not saying Kentucky will win, but they look the best to me by far. I'm gonna root like hell against them tho. Calipari is the biggest snake in college sports.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not always I can think of a few teams, the second UConn team, the second Duke team, Michigan State a few years ago. Those teams were favorites and proved it. I am just not sure about Kentucky, I think there inexperience will hurt them, but who knows at this point anything is possible. I have to agree with you though, I can't stand Calipari, I have a friend who is a Memphis fan and she hates him for what he did there.

[CMJ]

The second Connecticut team wasn't even a 1 seed! No way in hell were they invulnerable. Michigan State was the favorite, but they also lucked into an easy draw when almost everybody lost before the Final Four.

Duke in 1992 was a prohibitve favorite but they had been beaten twice.

I'm saying if you lose in the regular season...you aren't invulnerable to defeat. The last team that looked invulnerable was UNLV, and they lost in the Final Four

[Jedi Master Carr]

I thought for sure that UConn team was number one. I just remember how good they looked in the tournament, they just smoked everyone. I guess I am saying Kentucky just hasn't impressed me. They play in a weak SEC where there only competition has been been Tennessee and Vandy. And both teams were erratic this year. Kansas looked stronger based on talent and who they played, and we saw how that worked out.

[Figrin D'an]

I think of all the remaining small conference teams, Northern Iowa has the best shot at getting to Indy. Purdue played them twice in the last two years (last year's NCAA 1st Round, and the Paradise Jam tourney in November), and though my Boilers won both games, they were both down the wire. With Michigan State vulnerable without Kalin Lucas, I'd pick them in heartbeat to at least get to the Regional Final.

Also... don't sleep on Butler. They have the athleticism and outside shooting to blitz that 2-3 zone that Syracuse loves to play.

[CMJ]

I thought for sure that UConn team was number one. I just remember how good they looked in the tournament, they just smoked everyone.

http://www.databasesports.com/ncaab/tourney.htm?yr=2004

Two seed.




I also think Butler will very dangerous for the Orange to play. If ever a team was built to beat a 2-3 zone, it's them.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Butler is a team I keep hoping can make a run at a final four this might be there shot. Watch out for Xavier too, I could see them getting back to the elite 8. I guess my memory was slipping about 2004, I do remember Xavier almost beating Duke that year.

[Figrin D'an]

As a personal and somewhat biased aside, if Purdue manages to beat Duke on Friday (it's a big "if", I know), I think they'll be playing in Indy. I'm pretty confident that they can take out either Baylor or St. Mary's.

[CMJ]

I don't know Fig...I think Baylor matches up very well with both Duke and Purdue. On the other hand I don't think they do so with St Mary's.

What a fun tournament this is.

[CMJ]

Well, Syracuse went out.

And the KSU/Xavier game was the best I've seen in the NCAA's in quite awhile.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it was a great game, too bad Xavier couldn't pull it out. I hope Butler can make it to the final four that will be awesome. I also think West Virginia can beat Kentucky.

[CMJ]

I hope WVU can win, but UK just keeps rolling teams.

[Jedi Master Carr]

If WVU can keep Kentucky under 70 they will win. Also, Kentucky hasn't played anyone. Wake Forest wasn't that great and Cornell while a good team just was undersized for them. WVU can equal their size and get the rebounds. I do think it will be a great game.

[CMJ]

WVU turns it over too much. They cannot turn it over 23 times or Kentucky will run them out of the building. Should the Mountaineers hold onto the ball, and ugly it up, they can win. If they turn it over 15+ times -- the Wildcats will probably blow them out.

In the other regional final --- KSU is very, very deep. They'll probably wear Butler down in the 2nd half. If the Bulldogs can get that 3 ball working again tho --- they could still win. I'll be pulling for them, I know that.

[CMJ]

Tennessee with the slight upset. Baylor domination. Duke wins with an iron will. Michigan State wears down UNI.

[Figrin D'an]

I'm proud of how Purdue fought for everything in the tournament this year after everyone wrote them off. However, it's still very hard to not think about what might have been if not for a freak injury to Robbie Hummel.

I'm still firmly on the bandwagon however. Barring another soul-crushing injury decree from vengeful basketball gods, Purdue will be back in Houston next season, playing in the Final Four.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great win by Butler, glad they pulled it out. First trip to the final four for them. Heck with the way they played they could beat anyone.

[Jedi Master Carr]

West Virginia took out Kentucky. Great game by the Mountaineers. They made them play their tempo and took them out. First time West Virginia has been there in 51 years, Jerry West led that team there.

[CMJ]

Today couldn't have turned out any better for me.

[Figrin D'an]

I should have learned by now to never doubt Tom Izzo's ability to win in March. Another Final Four berth, 6th in the last 12 seasons... that's just crazy. He's a great coach who gets the most out of his players, and I have a huge amount of respect for him, but it's hard to not be jealous of his program's success, particularly as a fan of another Big Ten program.

*sigh*

[Jedi Master Carr]

Izzo is a great coach, but I give the edge to Butler in that matchup. I think they are just playing great. I like West Virginia over Duke, they both play half court basketball but West Virginia has been playing amazing defense lately.

[CMJ]

I like West Virginia over Duke, they both play half court basketball but West Virginia has been playing amazing defense lately.

So has Duke. I think Duke is slight favorite, but any of these teams can win this thing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

West Virginia though is more athletic, and I think there defense is better. If they hold the other team under 70 they just don't lose. Of course I am biased, I hate Duke more than any other team.

[CMJ]

Yeah, you've never been particularly even keeled in your analysis. I routinely pick teams to win that I hate. :lol I don't think WVU's defense is any better than Duke's. Honestly, I think the team with the best defense left is Butler.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I can't pick teams that I hate. I usually go with my heart with picking. I have to stick with the two teams that I like the best. I also think WVU has an advantage inside and are the better rebounding team so those will help. I do agree Butler plays great defense.

[CMJ]

Oh, I don't think WVU has an advantage inside at all. Did Duke not crush Baylor on the boards today(a team that was a very good rebounding team)? This is a much bigger than normal Duke team. Usually the Devils are thought of as a guard orientated team, but good lord they have like 5 kids over 6'9.

I basically think Duke/WVU is a push situation, but give the Devils a slight nod because of Coach K.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well, I wasn't that impressive Baylor especially with how poorly they blocked out. They just collapsed in this game. Here is my final point for now WVU has history on their side, Duke has been horrible against the Big East the last decade. They lost to Georgetown this year and have been beaten in the last 3 tourney's by Big Eat teams and one of those teams was WVU.

[CMJ]

Duke won their first title in Indianapolis if you wanna talk about history.

WVU is a helluva team(I'd only say Duke is a 2-3 point favorite), but please don't trot out any sort of Big East superiority. The conference was kind of exposed in the postseason this year.

Hell....I hope Butler wins the whole damn thing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not actually, the Big East did have a down year. Actually, all the big conferences had a down year as the tournament showed. My point was they usually don't match up well against Big East Teams. I would also have no problem with Butler winning but would be happy with WVU as well.

[Callista]

I should have learned by now to never doubt Tom Izzo's ability to win in March. Another Final Four berth, 6th in the last 12 seasons... that's just crazy. He's a great coach who gets the most out of his players, and I have a huge amount of respect for him, but it's hard to not be jealous of his program's success, particularly as a fan of another Big Ten program.

*sigh*

The only good thing I've gotten out of attending MSU is the ability to cheer for some great teams :D

Man that game was ridiculously intense!

[CMJ]

Butler looked really good again. Team of destiny??

Duke blew WVU's doors off. Complete domination.

[Jedi Master Carr]

West Virginia's defense just looked awful, I think they just played a very bad game. I think Butler can beat Duke, at least I hope so.

[CMJ]

That was not WVA playing bad.

That was Duke playing their best game of the season. I don't think there's any way they play THAT well on Monday. Butler will be a stern test tho with their defense. The Bulldogs will have to score more than 52 tho....you're not keeping Duke in the 50's.

[Jedi Master Carr]

WVA was giving Duke too many wide open shots. They didn't look like the same team from the last weekend. Unless they thought Duke wouldn't hit those shots. I think Butler can keep them under 70 and that will be all they will need. Butler also shot one of their worse games, they can do better than that.

[CMJ]

Huggins played the same 1-3-1 zone that he did against Kentucky. The Wildcats couldn't anything tho....they went like 4 for 32. Duke went 13-25 from beyond the arc. Same defensive philosophy -- totally exposed. Plus., Duke crushed them on the glass - just like I figured.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think that was WV's mistake, I didn't think they would use the same defense against Duke. It worked against Kentucky, but I figured they try something different which is why they couldn't stop the 3. You can stop the three and I think Butler is better at it. If they play defense like they have the last 3 games, Duke will have trouble hitting those shots.

[CMJ]

That's like telling Syracuse not to play a 2-3 zone tho? If it's their base defense, that's what you play.

[Figrin D'an]

For Butler to have a chance Monday night, they have to shoot well (something they didn't do against Michigan State), and they can't afford to have Matt Howard in foul trouble like he has been prone to recently. They need him and Gordon Hayward in the game as much as possible to prevent Duke from dominating on the glass.

If Duke shoots as well as they have been in the tournament thus far, they'll win. It's pretty much that simple. One of the Schier/Singler/Smith trio needs to have an off night for Butler to have a chance IMO.

I guess I'll be rooting for Butler, given the choice. I'm already rather sick of the "Hoosiers" references being made by the talking heads though. It's not even an accurate comparison. Oh well...

[CMJ]

I think the key to the game for Butler will be in the paint. Not just keeping Howard out of foul trouble will be enough --- the Bulldogs have to get Duke's frontline loaded up with fouls. Otherwise Zoubek will just dominate the boards and fan the ball out for open 3's. He has a huge size advantage over everyone on Butler's team - and IMHO is Duke's most underrated player. The Devils aren't out of the Sweet 16 or any game since, if he wasn't dominating the paint.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That's like telling Syracuse not to play a 2-3 zone tho? If it's their base defense, that's what you play.

Its actually not their base defense. Before the Kentucky game they would go to it more in the second half of games, but with Kentucky they went the whole game. For some reason they kept that strategy with Duke.

[CMJ]

That was a fantastic game. Wow....

[Jedi Master Carr]

It was a great game but I was disappointed in the outcome. I just can't stand Duke and wanted Butler to win for the obvious reasons.

[CMJ]

Like it or not, Duke is a deserving champion. And I think it is probably Coach K's best coaching job. At least since the late 80's when I started following college basketball.

With 4 titles, he stands with Rupp, behind only Wooden, in championships. Since he'll likey pass Knight's record for wins in another 2 years --- one might even argue he's the best college coach of all time.

I'd still go with Wooden, but the tournament was totally different back in his reign.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it doesn't mean I have to like it. It is like the Yankees winning back in October for me. And its two bad the last two champions this year were both teams I rooted for.