Avatar (Dec 18 2009)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/avatar/index.html

The first trailer is finally out. And... while I am still a little afraid that this movie is over-hyped (a game changer! etc etc) it looks pretty darn cool.

I'm guessing its something along the lines of the Surrogates movie that Bruce Willis is going to be in, where a human lives their life through a robotic surrogate, except in Avatar's case the avatar is a real alien species and the human body may be discarded?

I'm not sure why after putting Sam Worthington into a new body the humans then attack him, but I bet its something along the lines of 'now infiltrate the enemy for us because we've given you, a loyal soldier, your legs back.' But then he falls for a native girl, and you can guess the rest.

I'm not sure the CGI battles are anything we haven't seen before. I mean, we all saw Star Wars I-III, right?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I should also mention that while it may not seem ground breaking now, this is all without the 3-D affects that will be in theatres.

[Dasquian Belargic]

This is really nifty, though the aliens look a lot like a species from Star Wars... Nelvaanian's, I think it is? :uhoh

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks very impressively. The graphics look amazing, can just imagine what it will look like in 3D.

[Captain Untouchable]

I think its gonna be the 3D that really makes it. Sure, the battles may be Ep I-III standard (is that meant to be a criticism? Lol), but in 3D, they're bound to be spectacular. I'm sure it'll be worth going for that alone.

Am I the only one who got confused when they clicked the link on the movie sites though, and was confused about not seeing Aang? >_<

[Lilaena De'Ville]

No, not a criticism! Just that they aren't anything we haven't seen before. Yet. From what they've shown us so far.

[Karl Valten]

Am I the only one who got confused when they clicked the link on the movie sites though, and was confused about not seeing Aang? >_<

This right here

[Rutabaga]

Although I'm a big James Cameron fan, believe it or not, I hadn't seen the trailers or any footage up until I started seeing the commercials for the movie during football last week. And I really can't get excited about it...maybe it's just me, but overall it just looks like a gigantic video game or something. So it's really a "meh" for me right now.

On a side note, James Cameron is facing some plagiarism accusations, that he's ripped off a Poul Anderson short story:

http://io9.com/5390226/did-james-cameron-rip-off-poul-andersons-novella%22

You have to admit that similarities are definitely there.

[Zero]

I have to agree with your impressions of the trailer. There seems to be a lot of hype about the movie being original and groundbreaking, whether from a story perspective or a technical perspective, but it looks like pretty vanilla sci-fi fare to me. The art style looks like Halo marines attacking World of Warcraft characters. The story seems almost spot-on with last year's Battle for Terra, which wasn't exactly Terminator itself. Maybe the idea was groundbreaking years ago when Cameron first announced the project?

I think it could still be a fun movie, and I hope it's good - sci-fi needs all the cred it can get - but nothing in the trailer has that wow factor for me.

[Csephion Draxus]

This is completely uninteresting to me but my wife will most certainly want to see it so I guess I'll be there opening week!

[Yog]

And I really can't get excited about it...maybe it's just me, but overall it just looks like a gigantic video game or something. So it's really a "meh" for me right now.
I feel exactly the same. I'll see it at some point, but not really excited about it.

[Mu Satach]

I'll see it, it's Cameron. But I'm not hyped for it. It looks too similar to a ton of other things.

[Peter McCoy]

Plagiarism is an interesting thing.

If I were to come up with something from my own imagination, and it just happened to be like something already out there that I'd never even encountered in my book-reading or film-watching, would I be bound by law to frig it off or credit someone who had nothing to do with my minds conjurations?

I understand it's to protect the creation of one person, but I still find it interesting that sides are taken in such a debate when there can't ever be any solid proof that someone stole an 'idea'.

[Mu Satach]

If you came up with something from your own imagination it would resemble something else out there no matter how hard you tried to make it "original," because we are all human and are influenced by what we see happening around us and that generates similar ideas, which is why ideas can not be copyrighted. (yet :ohno)

And I don't believe the film is plagiarizing anything, if anything the film will probably boost nerd reading of Poul Anderson works.

The interesting thing that makes me want to see the movie despite it's rather "vanilla sci-fi" as someone else put it, is if they are going to touch on whether or not the consciousness could permanently transfer to the avatar or not. Does Sam (haven't bothered to learn character's name yet) have to keep his human body alive? if his body dies, does his avatar die?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Got my tickets for IMAX 3D for Saturday. Anyone else going to see this opening weekend?

I'll be sure to check back and let y'all know how it is. :D I'm excited - but part of it is just excited to be getting out of the house without the kids, lol.

[Crusader]

I am kind of excited now.

[Rutabaga]

Nope, still not excited at all :\.

[Yog]

I guess the good reviews + the 200M budget + 3D is gonna sucker me in to watch this opening weekend. Plus, my favorite movie theater just upgraded (http://www.audioheritage.org/vbulletin/showpost.php?p=272375&postcount=47) its sound system, so it seems like a good excuse to check it out. My expectations are already low, so it should be hard to disappoint me.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

It was nominated for a Golden Globe for best picture, drama, by the way.

[Droo]

Hahaha! I read that as "I was nominated for a Golden Globe for Best Picture, by the way". Holly, you're a woman of inexhaustable talents! :lol

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well, I was. :mneh

But I said I couldn't possibly accept so I made them nominate someone else. ;)

[Jakys Sei'trem]

So, just got back from seeing the film in IMAX and......well I'm not sure actually. I really have no idea whether I like this move or not. Granted the thing was cool as all hell and I could just go back to flying through the forests and mountains of Pandora for another hour.

The CGI effects are absolutely fantastic, especially with that odd tech that they used to paint the actors as the Navi. Didn't feel like CG at all, which was fairly amazing.

At times it seemed like they were really trying to pimp the special effects more than the story. It threw me off a bit, but I'll take gliding through the trees for a bit.

Movie is definitely a tad on the long side for me, like it was loosing some momentum.....or maybe the plot was just a bit too predictable. The story itself had a fairly stereotypical Colonial movie feel. I'd liken the movie very closely (in some aspects) to Dances with Wolves.

It's kind of funny, I made that comparison before I read any of the reviews on the movie. I only saw the trailer once and did not read up on this at all so I could go in with no real expectations. But, seriously, it was like a retelling of the Europeans vs. Native Americans.

Plot and dialogue had its ups and downs. Some moments you could really get in the character's heads and feel what they were feeling. The Marines bringing down the Hometree and the ensuing massacre actually had me getting emotionally involved. And that usually never happens to me during movies

At other times the movie felt really detached. Out of the group of 7 I went with the majority of them disagreed with me, who knows, maybe I'm just jaded.

Biggest gripe I had was too much moral book-thumping and going overboard on the shamanism. Despite the science and engineering backgroup, I really relate to esoteric aspects, but this movie pushed it a bit heavily I think. Still, it was interesting getting into the minds of a different culture.

Uhmmmm....anything else?


Sigourney Weaver - awesome
Zoe Saldana - Excellent preformance. Seriously, this girl made the movie for me.

Opinion when I started writing this post: ????????
Opinion after I wrote this post and had some time to reflect: Damn good movie, if a bit too predicable and a little preachy.


Definitely see this sucker in IMAX. You may get vertigo at times. But DAMN its fun flying through the air (how many times have I said that now?)

Anywho, later. I'm gonna go sleep.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Saw it. Loved it. Its terrific.

See it in IMAX 3D if you can, in 3D if you can, and just go see it!!! The culture of the Na'vi reminded me a little of the piggies from Speaker for the Dead, if that makes any sense at all - just the way their culture/land was just totally alien and not what a human might expect.

Sure the story was a little predictable in its broad themes, but I still think it was great. You should certainly check it out.

:thumbup

[Crusader]

My next big vacation goes to Pandorra.
I think the world of avatar should get an Oscar for best supporting actor since it is really a driving force in this movie.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Technically it is a Character, as the whole planet has more 'nerves' and connections than a human brain. So, there is that.

If anyone's read the Furies of Calderon series by Jim Butcher, I was sort of hoping that the Na'vi would be like the Marat - each tribe bonding to a different type of animal. But then that would be copying, I guess. But when the big bullet proof freight train animals came tromping to the rescue I was hoping some Na'vi would have been riding them. Its all good though, I liked the deus ex machina just as well. :D

[Yog]

Story was completely predictable, villain totally one dimensional, standard Hollywood thing. It is not even worth spoiler covering the plot, because there really is nothing surprising in there beyond the basic premise. It's typical sci fi civilization vs primitive tribe theme and environmentalism. And at the start of the movie, I really felt none of the plot made any sense. That being said...

Holy shit batman on a stick, I absolutely LOVED it! And this coming from someone usually being a total snob about such things and swinging that critics axe very harshly for such movies. Yes, I came in with low expectations, not really anticipating much more than nice visual effects and turn off your brain, and it delivered as such, but surprisingly there was more to it than that.

First of all, I have to say Cameron is an absolute genius. In 77 George Lucas style, he comes and create this entire new universe that gradually just pulls you in until you're not even watching a movie any more, you're in a different different solar system far far away, in the future, and feels completely convincing. The budget is supposed to be one of the highest ever, with rumored figures everything from $200-300M, and it shows. 60% of the movie is CGI, but I can't say a single shot really feels like that, in best LOTR fashion. The flying vehicles, the creatures, and most shocking of all, those blue characters the Na'vi people, it all feels very genuine. But it is not only a visual extravaganza, it is also a film epic, and monumental craft of cinema history, worthy consideration AFI material due to technical achievements.

Why is it so good on a technical level? Well, first of all, the film was filmed with two camera lenses rather than modified in post production to give a convincing stereo visual effect, and this is where the movie really shines. Let's not kid ourselves, if you're walking into a small multiplex theater with a poor speaker system and a small screen 5 months from premiere at a $5 matinee without 3D glasses, or worse, watching this on DVD, you completely and utterly missed the point. If you do that, I feel sorry for you, you failed epically, you missed out the fun. You should see it in a IMAX theater or similar high end theater with a RealD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema) Sony 4K projector in full 3D splendor. In fact, if you're not able to watch it in 3D, you should not even bother, IMO.

The reason this is important, this is really the first time where 3D is not used as a stupid gimmick, rather it is a natural extension of the movie that is completely necessary to reach the level of immersion the director intended. In many ways, this is really the first proper 3D movie, and that is why you should see it.

I should also mention everything from cinematography, makeup, costumes, editing, set design, art direction, sound mixing / editing is at the very highest level, and if it does not win an oscar for visual effects, it would be an upset. But enough of the technicals. This also happens to be a good entertaining movie because I actually ended up caring about the characters on some emotional level. What a shocker. The 3 characters pulling off the star performances are Neytiri (Zoe Saldana), Jake Sully (Sam Worthington) and Dr. Grace Augustine (Sigourney Weaver).

I was 100% wrong about my concerns for this movie. Narnia, Harry Potter, Golden Compass and an endless list of fantasy movies in the later years can go suck it as far as I'm concerned, because this is the first time since LOTR I really cared.

Highly recommended (in a good 3D theater, IMAX / high end movie palace)
5 stars out of 5

[Droo]

I'll probably discuss this in greater depth later but for now I just want to say that this film is a very welcome return for James Cameron, who really is a legend by the way, and its wonderful to see he hasn't lost his touch. I've been careful to stay away from this thread prior to the film's release for two reasons: first of all, I have to admit the trailers didn't stir me into the frenzy of anticipation I'd hoped, and secondly, I didn't want to put into words that I was dubious, despite my feelings on the trailer(s), because I wasn't... James Cameron is James Cameron after all.

This film was incredibly beautiful. I was awe-struck by the unravelling spectacle that was Pandora. The action was breath-taking and dynamic. The characters were fun and their stories engaging, and yes, the overall story is very generic and predictable but as long as its told well, which it really is, then that's fine with me. A generous sprinkling of humour lends the film levity and James Horner's score was not anywhere near as "wonderful" as I'd originally thought. Funny how a good experience can make you biased.

Oh also, this was my first 3D film experience. Now, I've seen old 3D stuff from years ago and it was rubbish then and worse now but I have to admit that I think the 3D in this film at least was completely unobtrusive and immersive. But... I have another "but". Let's not kid ourselves, as well executed as it may be, this 3D business is nothing to do with the "next-generation in the cinematic experience" but is simply a highly polished gimmick to cut down on piracy and get bums in seats in the cinema. Peter and I paid £9.90 each for a ticket, let's call it £10, and let's look back no more than two, maybe three, years ago when Odeon cinema tickets were half that price. Don't get me wrong, it was a very nice addition to my experience tonight but it is one I can do without and it's certainly no kind of landmark in cinema history.

Anyway, back to Avatar, awesome!

Edit: Actually, just read Yog's post... we're like two peas in a pod on this one. :)

Edit 2: Scratch that, I agree with everything except the 3D bit. As much as I liked it in Avatar, it didn't add anything extra at all, it was just different and nice. The film's visual splendour is still glorious without and 3D is still a bum-in-seats gimmick.

[Yog]

Edit 2: Scratch that, I agree with everything except the 3D bit. As much as I liked it in Avatar, it didn't add anything extra at all, it was just different and nice. The film's visual splendour is still glorious without and 3D is still a bum-in-seats gimmick.

You should really read the interview in Variety (http://weblogs.variety.com/bfdealmemo/2009/12/james-cameron-avatar-and-a-3d-future.html) for some of Cameron's thoughts on the 3D issue, particularly this paragraph, I bold the important bit for emphasis:



BFD: Will 3D take over live action films the way it has animated films?

Cameron: People ask how big a role 3D will play in the future of cinema, but I don’t think that question can be answered by me. I know what it could be, not what it will be. That depends on how much other filmmakers embrace the idea that 3D can be just a normal part of cinema, and not a genre unto itself.

BFD: It has been regarded as a genre so far.

Cameron: 3D as a genre doesn’t make sense. So far, it has been relegated to some big, beautiful and expensive animated films from Pixar and DreamWorks Animation, and some relatively inexpensive horror films. There’s a vast landscape in between where filmmakers of varying degrees of seriousness operate. `Avatar' is certainly a commercial movie, but it’s not an animated film and it’s not horror. It’s a 3D film by a serious filmmaker. It shows how 3D can be naturally, almost casually, integrated into a cinematic style. I did not poke you in the eye, or remind you every 30 seconds that you were watching a 3D movie filled with gimmicks. I used 3D to create an enhanced sense of lucidity. People have compared it to the advent of color, but I would compare it more to digital cinema. Nobody would deny digital sound made movies much better, but it didn’t change the way people composed shots or wrote scripts. 3D has to be thought of as that kind of an enhancement. You don’t make a digital sound movie, and you shouldn’t write or think of making a movie just because it will be good in 3D.

3D used for gimmick, that is movies like "My Bloody Valentine" where the serial killer stabs with a dagger at the audience, or "Journey to the Center of the Earth" where they make a T-Rex snapping it's jaws at the camera simply because it looks cool in 3D. THOSE are gimmick movies. Those are movies where they in post production go out of their way to make objects poke out of the screen. As a result, you forget that you're actually watching a story, and forget that you just watched a terrible movie with no redeeming value other than it being in 3D.

Cameron elevated live action film to a new layer of immersion where the 3D effect is not a distraction, and that is what it should have been all time around. It might not sound like such a big deal, but that's what makes it a milestone in cinematic history. Why is this so important? It's important because it sets an example for other directors to follow, and as a result, we may well see 3D used as a serious tool for a wide variety of live action 3D films when it was formerly only for gimmick films and animated features. It's no longer, "oh, we better not use 3D for THIS type of movie, because that would diminish the movie itself from an artistic point of view."

[Darth Turbogeek]

Actually, I saw Up in 3D and it pretty much beat Avatar to being essential to see 3D and not a gimmick because there is a whole world of depth that 2D doesnt show. That being said, Avatar looks like a whole different level and it opens on IMAX on Dec 26 here.

As an aside, 3D up to this year really has been nothing more than a gimmick. The whole crze in the 50's, the 70's and 80's was pretty dumb in retrospect, it was an idea looking for technology to make it more than a cheap jump. 3D has always been promising, promising, promising but never even gone close to delivering.

With UP, I can see the real beginnings of something quite different developing. This time, the technology and ideas are coming into being, so we can see, much like LOTR and Gollum, a truly huge jump forward in effects is here. Up I feel tho wasnt *QUITE* there, much like Jar Jar in TPM wasnt quite there as a pure CG character. Close, but something vital missing. Gollum on the other hand produced a CGI character that was "there" and was utterly convincing, the whole computer havign an argument with itself and you *buy* it still gobsmacks me. So TPM, we can see what's coming, LOTR made it happen.

I feel Avatar may by all reports (and I am lookign forward to seeing this) may have been the final jump to a true 3D experience.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Coraline was in 3D as well, and they didn't use it as a gimmick but to give the movie depth and a diorama type of look that was simply amazing.

In Avatar at times I really felt a little funny in my tummy when they were looking down over cliffs and things. Bleagh heights! :uhoh But it was GREAT! :D

[CMJ]

Point of fact, the original 3D, non gimmick movie was probably Dial M For Murder. The problem is very few people saw it the way Hitchcock intended because the 50's craze was dying out when the film was released.

But apparently he made effective use with depth of field using the device.

That said, I am not a 3D guy, and would probably rather see Avatar the "regular 2D" way. I'll probably see it Christmas Day

[Tear]

In Avatar at times I really felt a little funny in my tummy when they were looking down over cliffs and things. Bleagh heights! :uhoh But it was GREAT! :D

Haha me too. I didn't notice it until you had mentioned it. But thats a great point. See'ing huge vistas and amazing heights in normal 2d doesn't have any effect on me at all. But seeing that in 3d I actually held by breath and got nervous for the character...

I just saw it. Absolutely loved it. Its dancing with wolves but the story still really held me.

I went in with a total media blackout. I didn't do any reading up on the story or anything. I wanted to go into this as fresh as you could and it blew me away.

See it in 3D!!!! Its a must. The hype was that this movie would bring a new level to cinema and I think it did. Never have I been so held by a digital performance by so much CGI until I saw Avatar tonight. I found myself, waiting for the moments when the avatars would plug back in, because everything was so vibrant and beautiful.. I think it was something done specifically by Cameron when he shot the movie. The natives have a beautiful, vibrant, living, exciting environment. In contrast to the humans where everything was steel, gray, cold and indifferent.

Highly recommended. Must see.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Most badass moment - the Colonel slapping out the fire on his arm and running his mech out of the crashing ship, to land on the ground with the ship exploding behind him.

BadASS!

[Yog]

That said, I am not a 3D guy, and would probably rather see Avatar the "regular 2D" way.
Just trust me on this one, you most definitely do NOT rather want to see it in regular 2D way. That's like walking into 1939 premiere of Wizard of Oz and demanding the movie being projected in black and white, or attending the 1927 premiere of The Jazz Singer with ear plugs. I would go as far to say, if you watch it in 2D, you won't really grasp the movie. That extra dimension is an essential component for the sensation of being transported to another world, Pandora. This is the way the director intended you to see the movie.

[Crusader]

I am happy to see that everyone likes this movie so far. Once the lights went on again I took a shy look around trieing to figure out if it was just me having a great time as the geek I am or if it worked for everyone else... Finding out that Droo likes it kind of made me happy for an unknown reason.

Sure the movie is completly predictable. But in my opinion there are just like 20-50 good plots and the trick is to tell these plots better than the other guys.

I think Yog is right. The idea is not to tell a story with nice explosions and gimmick poke in the eye effects but about following Sam Worthington on his trip to Pandora. This is like a 3 hour holiday that starts at the starport and ends with you not wanting to leave.

Oh and Lilaena is right:
The commander is totally badass and so are the mechs with their combat knifes

[Yog]

Never have I been so held by a digital performance by so much CGI until I saw Avatar tonight. I found myself, waiting for the moments when the avatars would plug back in, because everything was so vibrant and beautiful.. I think it was something done specifically by Cameron when he shot the movie. The natives have a beautiful, vibrant, living, exciting environment. In contrast to the humans where everything was steel, gray, cold and indifferent.
Very much agree there. Beautiful lush environment, a rich tribal culture, and natives that you can really sympathize with. I have always been bugged to hell and back by poorly done CGI, especially when they attempt to make human like figures, which all too often spawns the Jar Jar syndrome. The only real convincing attempt in recent years was Gollum in LOTR. Cameron not only reached that level, he surpassed it. The natives act and convey emotions so naturally, it seems counter intuitive to even suggest they were made by CGI. I stopped thinking about it real quick, and pretty much assume they are real aliens. These characters are actually more lifelike and complex than the human actors. In contrast the human colonists appears artificial, one dimensional and actually primitive compared to the natives basic way of life. And then Cameron takes it to the next level and tells us a love story, and... it feels real. I was outraged by the attack on the life tree. Their whole culture and religion feels so pure, it's tempting to get plugged into one of those chambers and live the the life as a Na'gi in the paradise that is Pandora. Where is my bow and arrow? Where is my flying beast?.



Most badass moment - the Colonel slapping out the fire on his arm and running his mech out of the crashing ship, to land on the ground with the ship exploding behind him.

BadASS!
Damn straight! And the ironic thing is, that's the sort of monochrome stereotypical villain I really DESPISE in movies. But because he is so badass with his mechas and hovercopters, and that scene in particular, it's a bit of a love / hate relationship.



This is like a 3 hour holiday that starts at the starport and ends with you not wanting to leave.
Yeah, I can't remember experiencing anything quite like it actually. Those 2 hour and 40 minutes minutes felt more like 30 minutes. I'd gladly sit mesmerized and immerse myself in this world for 6 more hours.

Btw, on the note of remaining in the theater, did anyone else notice the god awful music by Leona Lewis over the end credits. A ghastly pompous ballade (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8GMTQBriA3I) which gives traumatic reminders to Celine Dione's "My Heart Goes On". That was really funny, first people were applauding in awe. Then as people start to notice the music, everyone is in a hurry to evacuate the theater ASAP.. :lol

[CMJ]

That said, I am not a 3D guy, and would probably rather see Avatar the "regular 2D" way.
Just trust me on this one, you most definitely do NOT rather want to see it in regular 2D way. That's like walking into 1939 premiere of Wizard of Oz and demanding the movie being projected in black and white, or attending the 1927 premiere of The Jazz Singer with ear plugs. I would go as far to say, if you watch it in 2D, you won't really grasp the movie. That extra dimension is an essential component for the sensation of being transported to another world, Pandora. This is the way the director intended you to see the movie.
And someone else I know said the 3D was unneccesary.

[Droo]

Oh please stop with this "You must see it in 3D" nonsense. You really don't and I'll tell you why, because this film is gorgeous. Now I know those in the 3D camp will say this is precisely the reason why it should be seen in 3D but the way they're going on about this medium, you'd think Avatar had no visual merit without it and this is far far from the truth. Now I have a unique perspective on this since I've never before seen a 3D film in the cinema, I've never watched anything in 3D for about ten years prior to this, and consequently this was my first taste of it. There's pretty much not a moment on screen in Avatar in which there isn't some part of the scenery warping out of the screen towards you; it is an immersive effect but if you have a bit of imagination, which I do, then getting lost in Cameron's wonderful world is simple and requires no extra technical wizardry to facilitate the experience.

What I think is that the reason why so many folks are going 3D bonkers about this film is probably because they've seen other lesser films attempt it in recent years and after all the mediocrity, they have a reason to celebrate in Avatar, a film that as far as I can see really gets it right. So maybe it is a revelation in that sense, it seems to be the consensus here, and if you are curious about 3D like I was then Avatar is certainly the one with which you ought to pop your cherry - it's not cheap tricks and jump out at your face stuff, just an immersive environment. It's pretty and nice and as a work of technology, brilliant.

Ultimately, all you will be getting is exactly the same film, the same visuals, the same sense of scope and grandeur, and everything else but in a bit of the 3D, wonderfully executed 3D but seriously, the Emperor isn't wearing any clothes.

[Yog]

And someone else I know said the 3D was unneccesary.It's not necessary to enjoy the movie, but it does affect the experience significantly. Read the review quoted 3 paragraphs down.



Oh please stop with this "You must see it in 3D" nonsense..
You make some excellent points, so I'm not going to argue too much. You mentioned 3D enhances the immersion in this movie, well the immersion is what makes this movie so good. Watching it in 2D is still going to be entertaining / look gorgeous, but 3D does make a difference in terms of depth to the environments and adds that extra cringe factor in the action scenes. Not to mention, the CGI characters come to life more.

I also want to touch upon something you mentioned earlier about ticket prices. In Norway, watching this at the best screen in the country cost me 120 kroner, that is $20.46 / £12.70. That's a ridiculous price for watching a movie. I seen a lot of stuff in 3D over the years at inflated prices, but this was the one time I felt it was all worth it and then some. I guess what I'm saying is, if you do have a choice, then absolutely watch it in 3D. But I'll concede if you don't have access to a 3D theater, by all means, do watch it anyway. It would seem a shame to miss out on such a gorgeous movie.

If you don't mind, I'd like to quote from a review that I very much agree with:


Avatar isn't the best movie of the year, and it's far from the best thing James Cameron has ever done. But it's an exciting fun BIG movie that may be the best 3D movie experience of all time. With a story that smushes Dances With Wolves and Aliens together, there's nothing particularly original here, but what you have is akin to Jimi Hendrix covering Beatles songs. The elements are all familiar, but they are executed with such precision and skill that it's simply a great theater event. Avatar is the kind of movie that you can't wait for DVD. Avatar is the kind of movie that you'll want to experience on a giant screen. And as disgusting as it is for me to say it, this $300 million monstrosity is exactly the kind of film that Hollywood needs to save it's ass from a future of $1 Redbox DVD rental kiosks.

I was a bit leery of the early looks at this movie. We've seen underdog primitive people fighting off superior forces time and time again from Ewoks vs. Stormtroopers to Japanese villagers fighting off bad guys with the help of 7 Samaurai. There was nothing about the story suggested in the previews that made me want to see this movie. And the 15 foot tall Smurf Aliens looked too silly for me to get very excited about. But the guy who brought us Aliens, Terminator 1 and 2, and Titanic had certainly earned enough credit for me to give him the benefit of the doubt. After watching it, I'm impressed.

I have not enjoyed 3D movies of late. As a 4-eyed glasses wearing geek, the experience of wearing 2 sets of shades to watch a movie is not a pleasant one. When I saw Fly Me to The Moon with my kids on IMAX, the double images were so nauseating I had to leave the theater. The 3D experience of Avatar was beautiful and seamless. I never once felt the need to take the glasses off, and didn't feel I was watching anything less than a crystal clear picture. Avatar is a 3D movie that doesn't rely on 3D gimmickry to tell the story. While the 3D is impressive beyond anything I've seen before, it's completely organic and immersive to the film. Above all, it makes the motion capture CGI characters so much more real than the 2D version would be.

Peter Jackson's WETA effects crew is behind the magic here and it's gorgeous. If you thought Gollum and the various beasts in the Lord of Rings movies looked great, you'll be impressed at the texture, depth, and realism of these creations. The eyeballs have a roundness, dimension and LIFE to them that I've never seen before. And the blending of "real" people and the CGI is as seamless as it gets. It's a bit goofy to look at for about 5 minutes when you first see the Na'Vi alien bodies floating in tanks and moving around at the film's beginning, but I had no problem buying into the universe and believing what I was watching shortly after that.

The eye candy is gorgeous. There's a scene where the lead character (a Marine named Jake Sully who remotely "becomes" a host alien body) is walking around with the female lead Neytri in the gorgeous Pandora planet's forest. Luminescient footprints are left behind, plants that make sounds and mushrooms that light up when you touch them, and beautiful sights abound. The 3D makes it as magical for the audience to experience for the first time as it must be for Jake. It reminded me of when the GOlden Ticket holders initially experience the candy garden in Wonka's chocolate factory, only turned up 100%.

The acting is first rate, too. Sam Worthington does a great job in "both" of his roles as human and Na'Vi Jake. Sigourney Weaver is still a commanding presence as a botanist who also becomes a Na'Vi alien. Star Trek's Zoe Saldana in a full motion capture performance is very intriguing as the Na'Vi princess. A supporting "evil corporate dude" role by Giovanni Ribisi is unlike any performance he's given so far, and Stephen Lang, who was so fantastic as Ike Clanton in Tombstone gives a brilliant performance as Colonel Quaritch, the battle scarred badass Marine who is just itching for war.

Avatar isn't a particularly deep movie, and it doesn't have anything to say that you haven't seen in other movies before (the climactic fight seems lifted straight out of a previous Cameron film), but it's likely one of the best moviegoing experiences you'll ever have.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'm not going to deny it - movie tickets are expensive. To see it in IMAX it was $15.50 + the dollar 'convenience charge' because we bought ours online.

But it was worth it. So, so, soooooo worth it.

[Naomi Lang]

Wow, I only payed 13 for my IMAX 3D ticket. The cost for a 'normal' movie here is about $10.

[Yog]

With the incredible WOM this movie is getting and being a brand new franchise taking everyone by surprise, I guess it goes without saying Avatar will have some incredible legs at the box office. We're already seeing some signs of that...

Frid: $26,752,099
Sat: $25,529,036 (-4.6%)
Sun: $24,744,346 (-3.1%)
Mon: $16,385,820 (-33.8%)

That monday number is only a 35% drop since saturday, and 38% since opening day. I hear 3D / IMAX theaters are sold out all over the place today as well. I think it could increase some for tuesday, and weekend #2 will likely be a very small drop.

I think 300M is a lock despite the modest opening weekend, and even Transformers 2 #1 number for 2009 at 402M may be in danger..

[Crusader]

hehe do you want to make a Xmas BO game?: How much money is Avatar going to make till the end of January?!

Any predictions?

[Mu Satach]

Saw it, IMAX in 3D.

Revised opinion - It's Dances with FernGully!

Horribly predictable plot.
Incredibly flat characters.
But pretty enough to look at I didn't mind the $13.50 tickets and the numb ass after sitting for 3 hours.

Essentially, felt like going on a date with the hot chick in high school, not a lot going on upstairs, but entertaining enough for a one night stand.

[Yog]

Tuesday: $16,086,461 (-1.8%)



hehe do you want to make a Xmas BO game?: How much money is Avatar going to make till the end of January?!
Any predictions?
I predict it will make about 380M by the end of january.




Essentially, felt like going on a date with the hot chick in high school, not a lot going on upstairs, but entertaining enough for a one night stand.
So, are one night stands a good or a bad thing, in your experience? ;)

[Mu Satach]

Read it again Sherlock they're "entertaining enough" but won't be returning any phone calls. (i.e. I won't be "paying" to see it again.) ;)

I'm moving on to the next hot flick that has caught my eye. "Hello there Mr. Holmes." *batt's eyelids* :D

I reserve all my hot love affairs for the sliver screen. ;)

[Yog]

Upon closer inspection, Holmes (http://www.rottentomatoes.com/m/sherlock_holmes_2009/) appears to be a good choice. :)

[CMJ]

Really dug the movie. Probably one of the 10 best of 2009.

The 3D bugged me for at least an hour, and I left the movie with a headache. Next time i'll stick to my guns and see it in 2D.

[Yog]

Did you watch it in IMAX 3D or a regular 3D theater? Was it a RealD (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RealD_Cinema) one? Have you had headaches before watching movies in 3D?

Edit: Also, what bugged you specifically? Did the 3D make stuff pop out of screen too much or too little? Too much ghosting, color / contrast issues?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Some people just can't handle their 3D. Sort of like how Cloverfield made people throw up, sometimes 3D has the same effect on people.

[CMJ]

Too distracting. The depth of field was so different from what I like(?) instead of bringing me into the film I was annoyed and didn't focus on the film? It was at least an hour into it before the effect didn't bug me, and then it bugged me again the last 30 minutes or so. By it's very nature 3D calls attention to itself and ruins the film watching process for me.

Plus is was kinda dark.

I saw the film at the Arclight Cineramadome in Hollywood - which is one of the best theaters in the USA. And yes, they used the RealD glasses.

[Yog]

Some people just can't handle their 3D. Sort of like how Cloverfield made people throw up, sometimes 3D has the same effect on people.
Yeah, I know. But IMAX has a more dramatic effect in that regard, partly because of different 3D technology used, but more importantly because of the high resolution and field of vision. Even in 2D, some people get sick.



Too distracting. The depth of field was so different from what I like(?) instead of bringing me into the film I was annoyed and didn't focus on the film? It was at least an hour into it before the effect didn't bug me, and then it bugged me again the last 30 minutes or so. By it's very nature 3D calls attention to itself and ruins the film watching process for me.

Plus is was kinda dark.

I saw the film at the Arclight Cineramadome in Hollywood - which is one of the best theaters in the USA. And yes, they used the RealD glasses.
Sounds like 3D just ain't for you, no matter what. :\

[CMJ]

[Sounds like 3D just ain't for you, no matter what. :\
Is that not what i said originally? ;)

I mean at times the effect was interesting, but more often than not I was like...taken out of the movie by it. Instead of going "wow this looks like I'm actually walking thru a room with computers and crap", I was like "this is too freaking weird".

And in the process of THINKING about the effect I had to remind myself to actually watch the damn movie.

I just don't get 3D. I hope to God not all films go this way.

[Yog]

I'd say I was distracted the first 15 minutes or so, but after that I stopped thinking about it and just felt it was awesome overall. Maybe part of the reason is, I seen so many features in 3D (all of them total gimmick movies, where the 3D effects really poked at me) the transition from 2D to 3D was more natural for me. I'm a big proponent of new technology in movie projection as well. :)

[CMJ]

Hey, whatever floats your boat man. I'm not trying to change anyone else's mind. I just don't think I'll ever find 3D to be anything more than unnneccessary.

As far as the film is concerned tho - I really enjoyed the hell out of it. Too long(I like long movies, but this felt too long nonetheless), but rip roaring entertainment.

[Yog]

Yeah, personally, I think it is a strong contender for BP. Especially now that there are 10 nominees, the big spectacular movie winning technical categories and doing great at BO will have an upper hand on the rest of the field.

Speaking of BO, Avatar continues to post really high daily numbers. I think the drop this weekend will be extremely low. I'm thinking 60M+ friday to sunday may be in range.

Wedn $16,445,291 +2.2%
Thurs $11,325,000 -31.1% (christmas eve drop)

[Yog]

Avatar is doing a lot more amazing than even I anticipated. It had an amazing Friday gross of 23.5M, which pretty much secured it a 70M+ weekend haul. But wait, it gets better. There are now reports we could see a ~300M overall weekend for all movies. That would be an all time record, and means Avatar got tough competition with movies such as Sherlock Holmes probably doing a surprising 60M+ weekend. Now there are reports Avatar is doing exceptionally well on Saturday with a 30M+ number being possible.

You know what this means? This means there is a chance Avatar could actually INCREASE from the first weekend. :eek

Ladies and gentlemen, we're looking at a Box Office phenomenon. Forget 300M, this will cruise past 400M easily, which means it will be #1 movie of the year. It means it has and will have incredible legs. But it also means it's a big question when it will start losing steam. Because when you have a movie with 0% weekend drop or increase in the 70M range, at some point you may have to start doing comparisons. Comparisons with a certain other movie Cameron made involving a big boat..

I'm not going there yet. It's too early, and a lot can happen in January. Just letting you know how crazy the box office performance is for this movie. Right now, I like to compare it with ROTK performance adjusted for inflation, which would put it at 441M. It is holding well compared to ROTK.

[Droo]

The word-of-mouth on this film is exceptional. People are going to see it now because they feel they've got it in that it's something they shouldn't miss. Plus people like me and Peter are enjoying repeated viewings, in fact this Thursday we're going to have an Imax experience which should be something!

[Crusader]

Here in Germany you still need to reserve seats 2 days ahead of time in order to get seats in a 3D viewing that are not in the first line. The WOM is incredible.

[Maggie Wren]

I've just discovered we have an IMAX nearby, now I need to find someone to go see it with me.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Wasn't there another little movie that gained instead of falling at the box office? Titanic?

Does this mean we need to create a starwarsvstitanicvsavatar forum? ;)

[Yog]

Weekend Estimates: December 25-27
1 Avatar $ 75,000,000 -2.6% (!)
2 Sherlock Holmes 65,380,000
3 Alvin and the Chipmunks: The Squeakuel 50,200,000
4 It's Complicated 22,114,000
5 Up in the Air 11,755,000
6 The Blind Side 11,730,000
7 The Princess and the Frog 8,683,000
8 Nine 5,544,000
9 Did You Hear About the Morgans? 5,000,000
10 Invictus 4,390,000

What a busy weekend!



Wasn't there another little movie that gained instead of falling at the box office? Titanic?
Yes, this is very unusual. Especially when the numbers are so high to start with. I'd expect some more 'normal' drops in January. But if it starts having Hangover type of legs in January, Titanic could be in trouble. Oscar buzz will fuel the box office as well. I think it is going to be nominated in many technical categories, and a strong contender, if not the favorite for BP.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Oh wow, that IS amazing. And we had that prat Perez Hiton on TV saying Avatar was a box office failure because it didnt beat Twilight first weekend..... AHAHAHAHAHAHA what a maroon!

[Crusader]

Sherlock Holmes 65million first weekend look pretty out of place next to Avatar's second weekend numbers.

SO what are the predictions for the next weekend?

I think it will go down to 45-47M

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Apparently this weekend was the biggest movie going weekend in history, beating out The Dark Knight's first weekend for the no. 1 spot. We weren't able to get out to the movies on Christmas (or at all this weekend) but I heard the lines were horrendous. My older brother said they probably wouldn't be going to a Christmas day movie again - they had to go to another theatre because the first one they went to was sold out on Sherlock Holmes and there were crazy lines for everything else. It was at a mall and all the stores were closed but the parking garage was still full from all the movie going people. Crazy!

[Yog]

Weekend: $75,617,183

Friday: $23,095,046
Saturday: $28,274,406
Sunday: $24,247,681

Monday: $19,418,139 (-19.9%)

That Monday number is very strong. Yes, I know it is still Christmas, but it's posting in the high teens on a daily basis, and showing very few signs of slowing down. At this rate, it should round the 300M mark by Friday or Saturday, the 15th or 16th day of release. That would match or beat Dead Man's Chest for 3rd fastest ever path to 300M. But as we all know, it is the legs that matter in the long run. Something Avatar is showing strong signs of.

400M is now absolutely locked, and it's currently tracking for a gross in the 500M range, something only Dark Knight has done after Titanic.



SO what are the predictions for the next weekend?
I think Avatar will have about a 20% drop for 60M.

[Darth Turbogeek]

400M is now absolutely locked, and it's currently tracking for a gross in the 500M range, something only Dark Knight has done after Titanic.



SO what are the predictions for the next weekend?
I think Avatar will have about a 20% drop for 60M.

The really big thing tho in Avatar's favour is that it will be playing to sold out audiences in every IMAX for the next 4 months at least. That's just gotta give Avatar some extra legs

Plus Avatar is the perfect anti piracy movie as it doesnt transfer well to a dodgy cam but must be seen in a big theatre. Cameron is certainly not going to be short of cocaine and hookers for a long time

[Yog]

Tuesday: $18,290,628 (-5.8%)
Wednesday: $18,466,123 (+1%)

Still no sign of slowing down. This time last week, it made 16M per day.

It will reach 300M on Friday. 350M on Monday, I expect.

[Crusader]

So for the record: Cameron is back and his movies still rock!

[Darth Turbogeek]

Tuesday: $18,290,628 (-5.8%)
Wednesday: $18,466,123 (+1%)

Still no sign of slowing down. This time last week, it made 16M per day.

It will reach 300M on Friday. 350M on Monday, I expect.

Biggest NYE ever

And now biggest NYD - 25million and showing every sign that this weekend will be stronger than last weekend! Surely it's not possible a movie gets 70 million on it's third weekend, but yea we have the foundation. And absolutly certain Avatar will bag 500 million now.

As an aside, the boat does look shakey now in Australia. Avatar is currently after two weeks at 38 million, Number 8 all time and 19 million to go to sink the boat. Which is now highly likely as we are in the main summer holidays that go for another month.

[CMJ]

I was thinking that Avatar was going to slide between TDK and the big boat, but after this weekends number, I'm confident saying Titanic is definitely being dethroned. I suspected inflation was gonna help cause this within the next couple of years anyways, but am a bit surprised it's another Cameron film.

I won't be shocked if this gets above 650M.

[Droo]

but am a bit surprised it's another Cameron film.


I'm not. :cool:

[CMJ]

but am a bit surprised it's another Cameron film.


I'm not. :cool:Cameron was always a successful director, but other than Terminator 2 none of his films were HUGE. So yeah, it is sorta surprising he went back to back like that.

[Yog]

It's worth noting though, his biggest box office hits were movies with a huge budget, and Avatar falls into that pattern. Terminator 2, True Lies, Titanic, and now Avatar. Avatar has the biggest budget of a Fox movie EVER. The last time he pulled that stunt on a studio, the name of the movie was Titanic.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Avatar does rather well internationally....

http://www.smh.com.au/news/entertainment/articles/2010/01/04/1262453551321.html4/1262453551321.html

I'm guessing no one has any problems throwing large amounts of cash at Cameron ever.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I finally saw it today and I really loved it. I thought it was amazing film, especially the visual effects. Now will it beat Titanic is the question.

[Dasquian Belargic]

We saw it this afternoon and I loovvvved it :3

Whilst I loved the 3D aspect, what appealed to me the most was the fact that I found myself really emotionally involved with the characters. The level of emotion conveyed in the Navi (sp?) is just.. wow. The main female Navi, whose name I can't remember/spell, had me shedding a few tears on more than one occasion.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not sure if this is a spoiler or not but I will go on the side of caution. One thing I wanted to mention was the parallel between what the corporation did to the aliens to the treatment of the Native Americans by Europeans. As someone who enjoys colonial and Native American history, I found that aspect fascinating.

[Miranda Tarkin]

I saw it yesterday and was blown away. I agree with you JMC. I felt exactly the same watching the movie, thinking those parallels. I also was teary eyed through the movie :(

[Darth Turbogeek]

Avatar bags itself No 2 worldwide and has some impressive midweek takes as well.

[Yog]

The queue at an IMAX theater in Shanghai, China.. :lol

http://www.boxofficefollower.net/2010/01/long-line-to-buy-avatar-imax-ticket-in.html

[Lilaena De'Ville]

That. Is just insane.


:eek

[Darth Turbogeek]

From BoxOfficeguru



Defying gravity, Avatar actually saw international sales rise this weekend by 5% to an estimated $143M helped in part by a record-breaking opening week in China. That shot the overseas total to a mind-boggling $906.2M boosting the worldwide tally to $1.3352 billion. A whopping 68% of sales are coming from the offshore markets and that ratio should climb as the film's strong domestic legs are overshadowed by phenomenal staying power internationally. Overseas business accounted for 75% of this weekend's $191.5M global take. Avatar now looks very likely to break Titanic's long-standing $1.8 billion record to become the number one global blockbuster of all-time.

Oh yeah, Avatar only drops 29% on estimates (which usually have proven too low dollar wise so expect a better result on official) to move past 400 million.

And in Australia, Titanic sank. Avatar is now the new all time box office winner, with 58 million to date and still going like crazy. We will see the first movie to break not only 60 milllion, but 70 or even 80 million. First ever with a decent shot at 100 million maybe?

[Droo]

I do wonder how Avatar would compare to Titanic if we looked at ticket sales as opposed to its box office takings. I'm fairly sure I paid half the amount for a ticket to see Titanic, back in the day. Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade here, believe me.

[Darth Turbogeek]

I do wonder how Avatar would compare to Titanic if we looked at ticket sales as opposed to its box office takings. I'm fairly sure I paid half the amount for a ticket to see Titanic, back in the day. Not wanting to rain on anyone's parade here, believe me.

I think it's beginning to track that at least worldwide, Titanic and Avatar will end up fairly close on that. But we also have to remember we are so far seeing a movie that has not even been out for a month actually beating Titanic now so the number of ticket sales will be huge either way - plus Avatar is doing those weird box office things like not dropping that much that you expect to see from a movie that is going to reset the all time records whichever way you look at it.

[Dashiel Starborn]

Has anyone bought the soundtrack? What do you think of it?

[Yog]

Now regarding ticket sales, to be fair, inflation helps Avatar a lot. Adjusted for ticket inflation Titanic made $943M domestic. I am not sure what the number would be for Titanic worldwide adjusted for inflation, but I'd imagine at least 50% more than the $1.8B it made. But if we're going to really compare, Gone With the Wind made close to $1.5B, and Star Wars at $1.3B domestic. Star Wars is really the box office king though for many other reasons, such as starting the biggest franchise ever both in terms of sequels, DVD sales, toys, books, games, comics, TV series, T-shirts and lord knows what else. And with future re-releases, SW will probably even surpass the godly ticket sales of GWTW.

Avatar keeps showing good daily numbers, and I suspect it will have another decent weekend. My prediction for final domestic gross will be $650M.



Has anyone bought the soundtrack? What do you think of it?
The sound track is my least favorite thing about this movie. Save the money for DVD / Blu-ray. That being said, I did not actually buy and listen to the soundtrack. Just my subjective opinion based on what I heard in the movie and the awful song over the end credits.

[Crusader]

The question now is: Will it be able to make 430 Millions worldwide?
Are 430M still doable? What is your opinion?

[Droo]

Has anyone bought the soundtrack? What do you think of it?

I really like it but its far too short. I'd like to hear the score in its entirety.

[Yog]

The question now is: Will it be able to make 430 Millions worldwide?
Are 430M still doable? What is your opinion?
You mean the overseas drop (excluding the domestic gross)? World Wide (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/), it's going to beat Titanic's $1.8B record (it's already at $1.4B, with $974M of that from overseas..). 430M is piece of cake in any measurable form of box office for Avatar. Hell, it already reached that milestone domestic alone. :)

[CMJ]

On the other hand Yog - just about all of the older movies on the list had multiple re-issues. The fact that Titanic made the equivilant of 940M in one release is pretty damn amazing. I believe either SW or the boat had the largest single release of all time adjusted for inflation. I recall reading an article to that effect about 10-12 years ago.

But the adjusted for inflation argument is one you could use all day really. Fewer people decades ago also skew the numbers, as could less competion, etc

[Yog]

Excellent point about re-releases.

What made Titanic's run (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?page=weekend&id=titanic.htm) so impressive was the amount of money it made in a single continuous box office run. Plus the fact it made $28M 9 weeks out in it's run (it had a $33M opening), and $17M weeks some 14 weeks in. It was like it had opening week type of numbers for a large portion of it's box office run.

Titanic had some other things going for it though. Titanic had the biggest budget ever (that fact alone is probably worth at least $100M of it's $600M domestic gross), and the competition was really weak. And then award nominations really helped it while it was still going strong in box office. Nowadays, movies have to compete with video games, and lord knows what other distractions. Not to mention, DVD / Blu-ray actually makes the bulk of the studio money for most movies now. It's a more competitive environment.

If you want to study the numbers adjusted for inflation, you can find them here (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm) (domestic grosses).




But the adjusted for inflation argument is one you could use all day really. Fewer people decades ago also skew the numbers, as could less competion, etc
Exactly. Makes it hard to compare.

[Crusader]

Yeah I meant 430M millions additional to yesterdays' worldwide numbers. The 1.8 Billions of Titanic seem so close and so far away at the same time.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Yeah I meant 430M millions additional to yesterdays' worldwide numbers. The 1.8 Billions of Titanic seem so close and so far away at the same time.

Dead easy. You can expect another 100 million this weekend alone O/S, let alone the 50 million it'll take this weekend. The Boat on the WW and O/S lists is simply put, sunk. Avatar is doing absurd business everywhere and remember, an discussion on it's final ticket count, initial run, adjusted gross or whatever is not really doable UNTIL it's finished it's own run - in several month's time. Titanic WILL be beaten by the end of this month WW and OS. It might even do in Titanic US domestic as well by then - blowing away the existing 12 year reign in just 6-7 weeks.

The fact it's about to beat a movie that was just soooooo much more successful than anything else before it on sheer dollars in just a month and a half is remarkable. The fact it's drops are startlingly low means that it's eventual finish is anyone's guess - 2Billion WW is certain.

In Australia after 4 weeks it demolished Titanic - a movie NOTHING got within a shot of in 12 years and now is at 68 million, 10 million more than Ttitanic and an honest realistic shot of 100 million, something no one dreamed possible until now.

I know Titanic had to eventually get beaten, I wasnt expecting it to be beaten easily by a movie about 12 foot tall smurfs.

[CMJ]

One of the guys on Boxofficemojo mentioned a week or two ago, that one reason International numbers might be moving up so quickly is the weak dollar. Back in '97/98 the dollar was alot stronger in relation to other currencies as well.

Something else to think about I suppose.

[Droo]

I know Titanic had to eventually get beaten, I wasnt expecting it to be beaten easily by a movie about 12 foot tall smurfs.

I'm really not surprised to tell you the truth. A James Cameron film beating a James Cameron film? The guy should be dubbed Captain Box Office. It's really cool, actually. In the ten years since Titanic's release, no film has beaten it, so along comes the man himself and he says "Look! This is how you do it!" :lol

[Darth Turbogeek]

One of the guys on Boxofficemojo mentioned a week or two ago, that one reason International numbers might be moving up so quickly is the weak dollar. Back in '97/98 the dollar was alot stronger in relation to other currencies as well.

Something else to think about I suppose.

Actually, I quoted in Aussie dollars. In local currencies, Avatar is mindbending still.

There is also only a handful of currencies that have increased that much that will make a huge difference - plus the Euro didnt exist then either and it's strength right now isnt that flash either. Just for the record, Titanic made about 39 million USD in Australia, it's about 60 million now, however the AUD HAS really appreciated against every country in the world because we dig up so much shit and ship it to China.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Well it should get another bump - Oprah just told her whole audience to go see it, lol.

[Crusader]

^^So this means what?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

... more people will go see it? O_o

[Crusader]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/
Weekend estimates are here!
Just a 17.9% drop 41.3M this weekend -> total gross 491M
The Dark Knight is next...
I think the boat will be sunk in a couple of weeks as well.

[Yog]

17.9% drop is just incredible. Once again, it had the lowest drop of all movies.

Also worth noting, this is 5 weekends in a row at #1. The last movie to manage that was Sixth Sense back in 1999.

Edit - the weekend drops so far:

Weekend 2: -1.8%
Weekend 3: -9.4%
Weekend 4: -26.6%
Weekend 5: -17.9%

Average drop: 13.9% (!) :eek

In other words, my 650M prediction might be too low..

[Crusader]

I want to see it again on tuesday...
Hehe once the blue smurfs sunk the boat we will discuss for years whether Avatar deserves to be the biggest movie of all time or not.
This will be fun!

[CMJ]

This weekend's drop was probably a tad lower than you'd figure because of the holiday on Monday. Sunday is probably going to play more like a Saturday than a Sunday I would guess since alot of folks have Monday off.

[Darth Turbogeek]

This weekend's drop was probably a tad lower than you'd figure because of the holiday on Monday. Sunday is probably going to play more like a Saturday than a Sunday I would guess since alot of folks have Monday off.

Saturday plays insanely well for Avatar anyway so most of the small drop comes from how resiliant Saturday's number is. Plus well see the estimates tend to lowball the actual so we'll see the drop beign even less tomorrow - However it works, it's still an amazing number. 5th week, playing like a new opener and at 500 million to boot. 700 million maybe at the end?

Intl, the boat long ago hit the Avatar iceberg and it's rapidly sinking. All man the lifeboats because O/S record is going to go this week - Avatar had an initial estimate of 125 million O/S, leaving it only about 100 million behind the boat.


Hehe once the blue smurfs sunk the boat we will discuss for years whether Avatar deserves to be the biggest movie of all time or not.
This will be fun!

Not really the boat was a shitfest, while Avatar(*) has fundamentally changed movies in the way that only Star Wars before it did :D

(*) There's a lot of truth in that by the looks of it. There's a mad ass rush to go 3D, new technolgy breakthroughs at WETA that will move down the foodchain, new cameras, new ways of doing things.... the world of Pandora is going to be well remembered for what it did to movies for good.

[Yog]

This weekend's drop was probably a tad lower than you'd figure because of the holiday on Monday. Sunday is probably going to play more like a Saturday than a Sunday I would guess since alot of folks have Monday off.
That's true.

Still, with ROTK percentage drops from now on, we'd be looking at ~700M gross. And so far, Avatar has held better than ROTK.

[CMJ]

Not really the boat was a shitfest

Whatever dude

[Darth Turbogeek]

Not really the boat was a shitfest

Whatever dude

Yes because everything I say isnt wound up to be silly and off the planet? I did add a smiley there so people could get I was being somewhat silly :ohno

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I like Titanic. :3 Its trendy to hate it.

But anyway.

[Darth Turbogeek]

I like Titanic. :3 Its trendy to hate it.

But anyway.


There's a lot to dislike about Titanic. It's not the worst film ever by no means, but it's got a spectaclarly bad screenplay and incredible cheesy plot, the acting was bad by some otherwise fine performaers, dont start me on that utterly terrible soundtrack.... it's no Citizen Kane, which in it's case in all honesty even if you hate it, you have to admit it is a work of genuis.

It's 2 hours of bullshit until the boat sinks which does have some pretty damn good bits and effects going for it. A lot of heavy handed OMG WE'RE GONNA DIEEEEEEEEE!!!! and Rose and Jack's escape out of the ship was nonsensical in the highest order. But the dude bouncing off the propeller rocked :D. Be that as it may if it wasnt called "Titanic" and didnt have the attachment to one of the last centuries most notworthy events, it wouldnt have gone half as well. Much fewer would have cared and it wouldnt have been what it became.

[Droo]

Okay. What bad acting? What bad score? What are you talking about? I know everyone's entitled to their personal opinion on things but when it comes to films, music, art, anything creative, someone with an eye for it should be able to step aside and say "Okay, I really don't like it but it has this, this, and this going for it." You did that in part but I'm so sick and tired of seeing Titanic getting bashed for reasons which are simply wrong. There's no bad acting in the film at all. Some of the dialogue between the young lovers may be a bit trite and predictable, I'll give you that on your screenplay point, but whether its either of the leads or supporting cast, you can see they're performing at a high standard.

On the subject of which, by the way, I've just been browsing the internets to read a few articles on why people find Titanic bad. Funnily enough, their criticisms all read the same: baaaad acting, baaad story, and baaad Celine Dion. Yes, people actually use Celine Dion as a criticism for a movie which features her singing over the end credits, which is funny because Avatar has that God-awful Leona Lewis song and no-one, except Yog, has said a peep about that - perhaps when it becomes a la mode to hate Avatar people will then remember it. I know you've always disliked the film, Mark, so I'm not claiming you're following any trends here. Neverhteless, you do fall into the trappings of the same type of criticism, in fact, I've always noticed when you offer your views on films you'll use wonderfully colourful metaphors to describe how bad you found certain aspects of the film (plot, acting, running length, camera work, etc.) without actually going into any detail other than it's "bad". It's a serious weakness if you're trying to get your point across because to critique, you really should expound upon your views, making them fully realised so others who don't share them can read what you think and say "Oh, yeah, I see what he's getting at..."

Sadly, I don't get that from your view on the film or the views of others who dislike it and frankly, they all sound like a bunch of bitter, disingenuous teenagers who are jealous of Leo's ability to make their girlfriends weak at the knees.

Now, I have to admit, criticism for the score is something new but also I have to say: WTF? I really don't know where to even begin with this one so I'll just whip up another review and let it do the talking for me.

http://www.filmtracks.com/titles/titanic.html

[Dasquian Belargic]

I enjoyed Titanic. Admitedly I haven't seen it for quite a few years, but I did enjoy it. It's not the best film ever but it's hardly the worst.

[CMJ]

Sorry for getting the thread off topic guys. I just am an unabashed lover of the big boat. But we probably should go back to Avatar and all.

[Droo]

If anyone has anything to say about Avatar, I'm sure they will and no-one's not stopping them. It's surely not that much of a faux pas to allow a discussion to run its course? Apologies are hardly neccessary, the alternative is we start a thread about Titanic, thirteen years late. :mneh

[Dragon]

Loved the movie for reasons already enumerated. However, I will have to agree that the score was lackluster compared to everything else. The fact that the first two chords of the main theme are actually the same as the first two chords of the Titanic theme didn't really help - I know that sounds like a cheap gripe, but you hear the four-chord riff so often in Avatar's soundtrack, and the first ten or so times it played in the movie, I couldn't help but make the connection. Then I stuck around for the credits because I wanted to give the music another listen, just to see if it was better than I was giving it credit for... and then Leona Lewis came on. :(

If you want to preview the soundtrack, look it up on Rhapsody, and you can hear it for free. It's ethereal and atmospheric, but it's also repetitive, and it's especially anemic when compared to the visual majesty of the film. Plus, as Droo noted, the soundtrack that's been released is awfully short.

Still a great movie. But as much as I appreciate the power of music to enhance and reinforce the visuals and the story, I feel like there's a lot more James Horner could have done.

[Droo]

I've listened to the soundtrack a few times now and while the quality of the music is high, and I do like what I hear, I certainly don't love it. Thematically, the whole thing is actually very weak and there isn't anywhere enough variation. There are moments when I'd be tempted to use the term "generic" to describe it, sadly.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I have to admit that I barely noticed the soundtrack when I was originally watching the movie. I don't know whether that was because it was weak, or because the visuals had my full attention, but I certainly don't remember thinking "this piece is awesome!" at any time.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The song at the end isn't bad, per say, but it DOES sound a lot like My Heart Will Go On. A LOT. I noticed it in theatres and it made me roll my eyes.

However, a song over the end credits does not a movie make. Or something.

I loved My Heart Will Go On back in the day. :3 And I own the Titanic soundtrack. The instrumental bits are really good.

[Figrin D'an]

Finally saw this over the weekend. I generally enjoyed it. I went into it without much expectation, sort of looking for a 'Jurassic Park' type of experience, and that's what I got. Great visuals, best humanoid CG I've seen bar none. Acting was serviceable. Plot was pretty rehashed and simplistic, but that's really not the selling point of the film, so it didn't bother me much. The 3D aspect of the visuals was well done... it never really felt intrusive or overused, unlike just about every other 3D experience I've had.

Certainly worth seeing on the big screen.

[Captain Untouchable]

The 3D aspect of the visuals was well done... it never really felt intrusive or overused, unlike just about every other 3D experience I've had.

Quoted for emphasis. I don't think James Cameron is given enough credit for this: he managed to turn 3D cinema into a tool to make his movie more immersive for the viewer, rather than it just being a cheap (well, extremely expensive) gimick.

Of all the things the movie industry could take away from Avatar, it's tasteful use of 3D is the thing I really hope we see showing up in more movies in future. I hear that Iron Man 2 is flirting with the idea of something similar; fingers crossed they pull it off to the same degree of quality.

[Crusader]

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/?yr=2010&wknd=04&p=.htm (http://www.boxofficemojo.com/weekend/chart/)
Weekend estimates are here!
Just a 15.9% drop: 36.0M this weekend -> total gross 553M

[Darth Turbogeek]

Amazing, considering it's coming off a holiday weekend that would have expanded the box office - for a no holiday weekend, that drop is extraorinarily good. And that's pointing to at least 700 million gross, and that's it's low point depending if Avatar's drops ever become like a normal moive before March. Could easily and quite resonably grab another 150 million and be at 700 by end of Feburary

PLUS! 1.834 billion WW, that means Avatar just sunk the boat WW and O/S - it beat the biggest ever movie in 6(!!!!!!!) weeks. This bloody thing just doesnt stop!

Just to put this in perspective, Titanic at this exact point of it's own relase was 268million Domestic. It took another month and a bit to beat Star Wars.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Take a look at the domestic B.O. chart because it's the last time you'll see Titanic there at No 1 after Wednesday. Avatar 594m estimated, and 2.044 billion WW

[Droo]

The more I think about it, the less impressive it seems and actually, on a broader but related issue, the less significant I'm finding all these box office discussions and predictions. I cannot discover the exact figures, but I'd be willing to bet that the cost of a cinema ticket to see Titanic in 1997 was half the price of a ticket to see Avatar 3D. Now, I don't know how the sales of Avatar 3D tickets compare to the Avatar 2D sales but I imagine it's a rather large percentage. I read recently in a BBC news article that apparently, when adjusted for inflation, the biggest selling film of all time remains to be Gone with the Wind. So what exactly is the point of all this grossings hoopla? It feels almost like media spin for the film industry.

Again, this is only an observation, the ramifications of Avatar's success have little bearing on me other than making me glad James Cameron's return to the industry was so well recieved but I do fail to identify with all the hype. I can only that assume you, and I use this term affectionately, box office geeks are monitoring trends of weekly drops and the like and perhaps its that which has you in a frenzy, or do these figures have something to say other than 3D equals megabucks?

[Crusader]

^^well you are completly right in this matter Droo

But the truth is nobody is going to refund the creaters of Gone with the Wind for not charging more money per ticket these days.

3D = more $$$

and in the end it all comes down to the fact that this is a business and the business model has changed since Gone with the Wind many times.

In 1997 nobody had a home theater system and VHS and DVD sales were not as big as they are now.

So the chance to get more attendance was a lot higher especially since you had THX at the movies and the VHS release would take like a year and not 3 or 4 months.

Plus Titanic was lucky to be a big blockbuster in a time where ticket prices rose up. So Avatar and Titanic both profit from a financial situation.

But as mentioned above a business is a business and if your sale strategy does not work anymore you have to invent a new one because in the end only the money you earn counts. So Avatar's BO success is completly dependant from your perspective.

[Darth Turbogeek]

So Avatar's BO success is completly dependant from your perspective.


No, it's not. The only way you can definitively say how big a movie has been is raw cash, just for the very reasonign you stated - there is so much difference in even now and 12 years ago, we have no idea if Titanic would have been half the movie in size if it played now.

Gone with the Wind's supposed success is also extremely dubious - apart from the actual numbers are un audited unlike today, there was 8+ releases in different eras. And for the auditing point, GWTW was supposed to have sold 85 million tickets in Australia. Which is utter bullshit as the whole population of Australia in 1939 was 7 million. Thence, no one even bothers to calulcate for movies before 1970 as there is no way to accuratly say what exactly was true. GWTW in the USA did 32 million in it's first four year run, then ran up to 186 million over 40 years, it's last re-release in 1992 (I think)

When you try to make all things equal - single run, no counting re-releases or rentals or DVD or TV - Titanic's run becomes a huge outlier. Avatar's OS run is every bit as much of a startling outlier too and will actually match Titanic ticket sales AND adjusted for inflation runs by the time it's done (Titanic was ahead of anything International by 700 million, Avatar looks liekly to beat THAT by 700 million). Avatar wont be such a startling outlier in USD terms but it's single run performace is amazing. It's been 12 years since any movie has scored 7 weeks in a row No 1. Given how much has changed since 1997 in the Box Office, that's incredible.

[Darth Turbogeek]

http://boxofficemojo.com/alltime/domestic.htm

:D :D :D

We can now call ourselves SW vs Avatar

[CMJ]

It's gonna take a long time for me to get used to not seeing the boat on top. I started following the BO in 1993, and for the vast majority of that time Titanic was #1. There are all sorts of arguments on inflation(there's been some great threads on BOM as of late trying to break it down into figures that are more accurate with re-issues etc. than the ones listed on the site) and what not, and those are discussions than can go on forever really. But as of yesterday Avatar is the new king, and probably will stay there for a decade or more.

I will say after living thru, more like remembering since I lived thru E.T as well, every major movie phenomenon since Jurassic Park this one doesn't feel quite as big somehow. Even The Dark Knight felt larger oddly enough

[Crusader]

^^I guess it is too early to discuss if Avatar deserves this spot but it might have redefined what we expect from movies in the future but we will see.

But one thing is for sure Sam Worthington has got a great career that is waiting for him. He made the new Terminator enjoyable for me and this movie would not have worked without him.
Kind of funny that we talked so much about this movie its visuals and the soundtrack but no one ever mentioned that the acting was good as well.
It ain't Shakespeare but it was solid acting!

[Figrin D'an]

I will say after living thru, more like remembering since I lived thru E.T as well, every major movie phenomenon since Jurassic Park this one doesn't feel quite as big somehow. Even The Dark Knight felt larger oddly enough


I would have to agree. While Avatar is a reasonably well done film, and it is now the new box office king, I have a difficult time seeing it having anywhere near the longer term impact that other movie phenomena have had. It's not a 'game-changer' in my eyes, like say a Star Wars or an E.T. or even some others. It's more representative of an evolutionary step in it's dominant characteristic (visuals) than a giant leap forward IMO.

It will be interesting to see how long it remains at #1. Titanic lasted what, 12 years? I'm not sure Avatar will stay there for as long.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it will probably finish around 750 million so that will take a big jump. One possibility is the Star Wars movies might get rereleased into 3D. I suppose it is possible ANH could make enough to top it, if Lucas gave it a long enough run. Other than that I am not sure if there is anything that can top it anytime soon. I suppose the next jump would be virtual reality type films if the technology develops.

[CMJ]

I figure iwhen Avatar is passed, it'll be a movie few saw coming. That's the way these things usually go.

[Jedi Master Carr]

You are probably right, I sure would have never guessed Avatar.

[Darth Turbogeek]

I will say after living thru, more like remembering since I lived thru E.T as well, every major movie phenomenon since Jurassic Park this one doesn't feel quite as big somehow. Even The Dark Knight felt larger oddly enough

In the USA, I would agree. But not International. Ohhhhh Lordy, there's a whole new lot of country records being smashed and set that I cant see being broken for 2 decades. Like here in Aust, Titanic finished on 57 million. Avatar is STILL going hard and gone past 95 million. Nothign got within 6 million of Titanic and we have Avatar looking like it's going to literally double the boat and also do the same kind of ticket sales or better. It's big and it resonated.

For some reason, Avatar seems to play better to Asia and is becoming more of a cultural phenomenon. Remember, this is still more or less early in the Box Office, despite is ridulously huge take - Titanic still has another 3 weeks to go before it claimed it's crown.

The real impact in the short term will be seen in which way the entertainment industry moves to embrace 3D as a legitimate format, rather than a gimmick. I think the industry was bending that way anyway what with UP and a few other showing that 3D was no longer a gimmick but a genuine advance.

On the culture comment, the reason why I suspect it hasnt quite resonated despite it's ongoing amazing run is that Titanic already had a big cultural resonance to work with and hence a lot more people had an emotional attachment. Pandora is new, it's different (it not got sharks, it's not got a highly signifigant US event as a backdrop, it hasnt got a cute alien, it's not attached to a 100 year old major event that has become legend) and we're not quite sure what to make of it all as yet. I think of it as a lot like Star Wars - Star Wars culturally was a slow burn as while it was something no one had seen before, it took a while to really take hold but once it did it really caught the imagination and ingrained itself.

And on Star Wars, it was really Empire Strikes Back that truly sealed the deal. I suspect Avatar 2 if there is one and if it's any good will be quite enormous and will be quite an event in a similar way as well as locking in the Na'vi and Pandora as part of the cultural fabric.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

There's no "if" when it comes to Avatar 2. Cameron hasn't been shy in stating that he's got a lot more stories to tell about this universe.

[CMJ]

I will say after living thru, more like remembering since I lived thru E.T as well, every major movie phenomenon since Jurassic Park this one doesn't feel quite as big somehow. Even The Dark Knight felt larger oddly enough

In the USA, I would agree. But not International. Ohhhhh Lordy, there's a whole new lot of country records being smashed and set that I cant see being broken for 2 decades. Like here in Aust, Titanic finished on 57 million. Avatar is STILL going hard and gone past 95 million. Nothign got within 6 million of Titanic and we have Avatar looking like it's going to literally double the boat and also do the same kind of ticket sales or better. It's big and it resonated.

For some reason, Avatar seems to play better to Asia and is becoming more of a cultural phenomenon. Remember, this is still more or less early in the Box Office, despite is ridulously huge take - Titanic still has another 3 weeks to go before it claimed it's crown.

The real impact in the short term will be seen in which way the entertainment industry moves to embrace 3D as a legitimate format, rather than a gimmick. I think the industry was bending that way anyway what with UP and a few other showing that 3D was no longer a gimmick but a genuine advance.

On the culture comment, the reason why I suspect it hasnt quite resonated despite it's ongoing amazing run is that Titanic already had a big cultural resonance to work with and hence a lot more people had an emotional attachment. Pandora is new, it's different (it not got sharks, it's not got a highly signifigant US event as a backdrop, it hasnt got a cute alien, it's not attached to a 100 year old major event that has become legend) and we're not quite sure what to make of it all as yet. I think of it as a lot like Star Wars - Star Wars culturally was a slow burn as while it was something no one had seen before, it took a while to really take hold but once it did it really caught the imagination and ingrained itself.

And on Star Wars, it was really Empire Strikes Back that truly sealed the deal. I suspect Avatar 2 if there is one and if it's any good will be quite enormous and will be quite an event in a similar way as well as locking in the Na'vi and Pandora as part of the cultural fabric.

That's not exactly what I meant, but your analysis is interesting.

I guess what I'm thinking of is more like in 1993 it seemed like Jurassic Park was everywhere. It was all encompassing. In 97/98 same with Titanic. The summer of 1999 everyone was talking TPM. LOTR was more of a slow burn in my expereince - maybe this is more like that - it wasn't until the 2nd or even third where it really moved beyond the "fans" or felt like "Joe Schmo" around the watercooler was talking about it. It seemed like everyone and their mother wanted to discuss TDK.

I guess I just haven't felt that as much here. Maybe it's sorta the way I saw Spider-Man - another film that I was somewhat gobsmacked about given the relation of buzz to BO was concerned(didn't really "feel" the aura around that one till the sequel). Maybe it's my current frriends/co-workers. I don't know - the general feeling of people I know is somewhat of an amused indifference towards it. And not one person I have discussed it with is rooting for it to win BP.

[Darth Turbogeek]

Yes, for some reason I would agree that something as spectaclarly big as Avatar has turned out to be, it's all rather without fuss.

I think this simply goes back to that Avatar has absolutly nothing in it attached to our conciousness that it's not the kind of movie that inspires a cultural reaction, yet. It has to set up a fan base of entirely new creations, with worlds and characters we have never had before and thence no real "attachment" to. It's hook was solely the huge jump forward into a genuine 3D movie and it's by James Cameron.

The main thing I hear is simply "Oh WOW, that was incredible, it was actually like being there!"

So what was there to give a damn about? Spiderman for instance is US institution, LOTR is the book of the 20th century, Jurassic Park fed into the public's facination of Dinosaurs, TDK was coming off the back of Batman Begins which was a suprise in just how damn good it was and also the interest in what was Heath Ledger's last role, but Avatar was.....?

Now If there is a Avatar 2 and it's a long way from being a done deal, up to a few weeks ago Cameron was going to do Battle Angel next - funny what a huge pile of cash will do to change priorities - I will suspect the cultural attachment will be there and you will see a lot more hype and expectations and a lot more talk.

I think we will be discussing this point for some time as we try to work out exactly Avatar's signifigance and place in movie history.

All I can say for sure is any sequel will have the most gobstopping opening weekend take of all time. It might even have the first ever 100 million day. An Avatar 2 wont have the introduction problem of Avatar, we'll know the characters, the worlds and every theatre in the world will be making sure they are ready.

[Crusader]

No first place for this weekend. The big question is: Is "Dear John" a good movie or is everyone watching "this football thing" and nothing else this weekend.

[Darth Turbogeek]

I'm pretty sure Dear John is only marginal better than grid iron - I honestly preferred the pathetic dance music they switched to after complaints about the Super Bowl being played at the gym. Still beats (just) the contempt for my intelligence that is AKA wrestling. Aussies truly hate that game.

Avatar is at 98.4 million AUD. It will cross 100 million this week and is heading for something absurd like doubling Titanic

[CMJ]

No question the Super Bowl hurt all of the movies at the boxoffice in the states. With this coming weekend being Valentines and Monday being a holiday - expect a big one for all the movies.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Superbowl and the awful snow storm hurt the box office. I agree next weekend should be unreal. I think we could have 5 films make over 20 million for the 4 day.

[Darth Gravis]

Didn't cameron want Avatar to be a trilogy? That depending on how well this first one did, there would be at least two more but that he is in no real hurry to produce them one after another as he wants this one to sink in before tossing another at movie goers? I keep thinking of the giant year gap between terminator and terminator 2 judgment day.

As for the box office, I expect it to rebound as well but I dont think it will be this upcoming weekend. Perhaps the weekend after next will be the big rebound only cause the east is about to be smashed again. >.>

[Crusader]

So 700M domestic might fall the next weekend, so where is it going to stop? 750 or maybe even 800?

[Crusader]

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So here we go again.

[Mu Satach]

you know... enough is too much - I couldn't take another round of it no matter how pretty the scenery is.