Making the jump from RPing to novel writing

[Dasquian Belargic]

How many of us have tried this?

And how many have actually finished a first draft?

There are so many great writers here, yet it seems that whenever we try to write something alone we stumble and have difficult moving beyond the planning stages or first chapters.

Is there anyone here who has succeeded? Do you have any tips for those of us who have been so conditioned into co-op writing that we can't seem to write a paragraph without expecting that someone else will contribute the next chunk of text for us?

:whaa

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I kind of did the reverse; was working on a series of books when I stumbled across RPing. Since then my own stories have ground to a pretty effective standstill. I have been trying to get back into the novel writing once more, and even took a trip to hang out with Holly a few summers back so that we could work on it. Fun week, and we actually got a fair bit done, but since then I've been horrendously derelict :(

I had a crapload of stories started and written, bits and pieces outlined, character outlines, book outlines, all that sort of stuff. I'd started when I was thirteen, and had a fair bit of backstory/material built up, as well as a few first chapters, and even a crossover with Farscape nearly finished. Unfortunately I lost most of my work in a flatten and reinstall accident. The ONE backup disc that gets corrupted is the one that's got all my writing on it >_<

It's been an amazingly slow task to rebuild what I had, and there's a fair bit that I'll never be able to get back.

[Rossos Atrapes]

I've tried and failed. So, to make things easier on myself, I simply am trying to write a number of short stories, and see if I can't get at least one of them published somewhere.

[Mu Satach]

I'm almost finished with a 1st draft of a feature length screenplay (not a novel, but still a full story outside of rpg land). It's been interesting plotting out small goals along the story arc to get to the end of it all and working with other writers to keep the momentum going.

[Darven]

I gave up on that. I can't think of anything original anyway. And even if I can think of something even a little bit interesting, it sounds like something that's already been written before, and stale.

The only thing I've ever been good at is Star Wars stuff, for some reason - not that I've tried writing in other universes.

Having said that, I do write decent kids stories and historical tales and stuff, if given a topic. For school, of course.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I have been trying to get back into the novel writing once more, and even took a trip to hang out with Holly a few summers back so that we could work on it. Fun week, and we actually got a fair bit done, but since then I've been horrendously derelict :(

That was three years ago. :twak

[Khendon Sevon]

I wrote a first draft (300ish pages) a year and a half ago.

I wrote the first few chapters of another unrelated novel about a year ago (70 pages).

I wrote the first few chapters of another unrelated novel about 6 months ago (50 pages).

What have I discovered? I hate outlining; but, if I don't, I come up with trash stories.

I haven't written in six months for a variety of reason... like, waiting for this stupid semester to end, being very happy (I don't write when I'm happy, I just keep being happy), etc.

Tip 1: Outline. Outline, outline, outline. Outline some more. Use post-it notes or something so you can re-arrange things or get rid of them (or use software).

Tip 2: Schedule time each day to write and think.

Now I'm off to go sing Gaston in rehearsal. Sooooo tired... By the end of the day, I will have put in 8 hours of singing and acting.

[Zai]

I've written a few that are going to go up for publication soon.

[Drin Kizael]

Awww. I thought this thread was announcing your first novel. I've always been impressed by your writing you know. I remember that thread where Grace and my Rebel character were were supposed to rescue that defector. After your intro, I was like... how the hell am I supposed to follow THAT?

My problem is that I keep going back to fanfic or RP. If my City of Heroes story was publishable outside of a fan site, I'd have like 1/4 of a novel written.

I did manage to get a couple comics produced at least. Then I got into the distribution biz and my writing got put on hold yet again. For attempts at original prose, the pattern is usually I manage to squeeze out like 3 pages and then something comes up that distracts me from it for 3 years.

[Dasquian Belargic]

:lol Thank you Drin, that's very flattering, but no I can't seem to get anything going with enough steam to make it to the end of a first draft.


I've written a few that are going to go up for publication soon.

Really? Tell us more :)

[Peter McCoy]

Me and Droo have written a number of short stories when we were doing our university degrees. (Imaginative Writing). I'd say one or two of mine are almost at publish-quality. Or at least high enough for me to treat them as publishable so that I edit them to the point where they are of publish quality. But most of mine, while they have some degree of closure, are more like novel introductions/first chapters than self-contained short stories. I just hate writing short stories - I can never come up with an idea that interesting and poignant and has momentum but simple enough that I can wrap it all up in a few thousand words.

But I quite enjoy reading short stories. Actually thats probably a big fat lie. The only short stories I read are H.P. Lovecraft and he only did short stories. His longest one was about 90-100 pages.

I've been meaning to return to some of my work to develop further. I might actually look at it tonight after work since I'm free. (I'll also be catching up on my posting, so apologies to Droo for taking so long to get my ass into gear.)

My advice would be to resist the urge to second-guess and edit as you go. Instead, just put your foot down on the accelerator and head for the finish line as best you can.

I can't, so the best I can do is aim to get sections done. Not that I've gone to multiple chapters, but I always aim to write a chapter without stopping to rever and reconsider and second-guess myself. Then once I have the whole picture, it's time to edit. Not only will you get a better feel for the story you are trying to write, but it will actually get done! It won't be as great first-time, but it's not meant to. You'll end up with a fully-fleshed out manuscript that you can now re-read and edit, rather than an unfinished project that never gets finished.

And when you edit, if you've been using a word processor - print it out! Seriously - DO NOT read over your manuscript on a computer screen. Print it out, double-spaced preferably - and go through it on paper. You'll be surprised and the mistakes you pick up on compared to the flawless ruse on your screen. And with that double-spacing you can edit and make notes right on the page where the issue is rather than cramming it in the margin.

[Zai]

:lol Thank you Drin, that's very flattering, but no I can't seem to get anything going with enough steam to make it to the end of a first draft.


I've written a few that are going to go up for publication soon.

Really? Tell us more :)

Well my jump was made all the more easier because I almost HAD to. It was part of a class, so I had to start working on the stories. They aren't exactly novels, but short stories. Since the whole class had to be in on it, and I already write (A LOT) it made focusing on it second nature.

As part of the class we have to send the stories we created to an editor so to get a feel for the whole process of Creative Writing. I was one of the more serious in the class because writing is a profession I want to get into. So, thats basically the jist of how I got up for publishing.

A tiring process really. Editors are no fun, lol.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Do you have an agent or..? Who are you going to be published through (can we expect to see you on Amazon :D)?

[Khendon Sevon]

So, I just so happen to be writing a One Act play for my school/the resident professional theater to perform. I was asked to write one, which is pretty cool :)

It provides a pretty good example of how I do "quick" outlines with "idea throw up."

I took this shot of my left monitor (yes, I have two monitors, I moved all non-relevant notes to my right monitor).

http://www.roxxu.com/linkedimages/leftmonitor.jpg

Anyway, the story is inspired by my journal notes from my recent breakup. The sticky that seems out of place ("You need to give it time!") points to her screen name.

Oh, there are some mistakes I just noticed... ignore any inconsistencies (sleeping beauty --> snow white)

[Dasquian Belargic]

The Good, The Bad, The Ugly? :lol nice AIM buddy groups.

Though this... post-it notes on the computer screen intrigues me.

[Khendon Sevon]

My ex-girlfriend used a lot of post-it notes. I'm talking A TON.

So, I searched through a couple apps and found "Stickies" (didn't want her killing trees/wasting money). There are plenty of others; but, it has the features I want.

Now all my machines have it.

[Mu Satach]

nice note system

[Mu Satach]

Incidentally - I've adopted your note system for my editing plan.

[Khendon Sevon]

It's pretty sexy :)

If you need some online space instead of offline, check out http://linoit.com

I'm not all about it... it's not as fast as I'd want it to be; but, maybe someone else will find it useful.

[Ilias Nytrau]

I use Stickies. Gotta say... incredibly useful. My actual Post-It notes are sitting on the little supply shelf next to my desk collecting dust. :) My daughter likes to try and peel them all apart, if she can get her hands on them.

Novel writing? I entertain the thought constantly, but I really need to make better use of my time if I'm ever going to pull something like that off.

[Khendon Sevon]

Okay, I lied.

I just committed myself to using linoit.com and... well, it's great.

I have a canvas for each character and am just throwing down stickies with tags like wildfire. Great for rapidly putting ideas down and having them accessible across my various computers (I have 4 that I use right now).

[Mu Satach]

that's a pretty sweet site!

finishing script tonight - going to be over 120+ pages.

--------
2 days and 122 pages later.

It is complete. A feature length screenplay story from start to finish. I'm gonna bask in that glow for a week or two before starting on the rewrite. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Congrats!!!!! :D :hug

[Dasquian Belargic]

:) well done, Mu! You achieved what the rest of us can only dream of - a finished first draft!

[Khendon Sevon]

Yayz!!! Fun stuff!!!

[Mu Satach]

Thankye alls.

It is and isn't what I had in mind when I started. Interesting. Now if only I can get a 2nd draft cranked out. :mischief

[Khendon Sevon]

My whiteboard right now is covered in diagrams of artificial intelligence thought patterns mixed with notes on ecosystems and how they relate to a cluster devoted to various AI entities.

What does that mean? It means I'm done with the prologue for my novel :)

If I'm done with the prologue for my novel, you can infer one other thing:
The outline for my novel is done.

After well over a year of taking notes and forming ideas, I'm finally ready to write!

Some random stuff:
- I have over 300 pages of hand written notes and diagrams
- I have well over 50 digital stickies involving 8 canvases
- My outline is 21 pages long
- I've thought about and worked on the idea for this novel in 4 different states (NJ, California, Tennessee, North Carolina)
- I've written over 50 pages of story for this novel that I've already trashed (a year ago)
- My prologue is over 1,800 words long and from the perspective of an AI

:) I can finally pound out my first draft!

[Mu Satach]

Woooo! =)

[Khendon Sevon]

I just proved to myself that I can work and write.

I did 8 hours of programming today at work, sifted through thousands of lines of code solving all sorts of issues and making countless decisions. Then, I walked home in zombie mode with metal blaring through the holes in the side of my head, shooting screaming vocalists and snarling guitars (or is it the other way around?) into my skull.

I bought some fresh ingredients.

Did some cooking.

Watched some online TV for a bit.

Then went ahead and wrote a couple of pages for my novel. They're not amazing; but, they're certainly not bad.

So, that's proof enough for me that I can pound out my first draft while working full time.

Yayz.

Sleep.

[Mu Satach]

Nice.

I've got to clean up my desk at home and make a schedule to start working on the 2nd draft. I have to make my outline and decide what to keep and what to chuck and what to tweek.

[Captain Untouchable]

I've picked up one of the writing projects that I've been casually planning for the last few years. I've wound up pretty much burnanating the stuff I'd worked out so far; kept the basic premise but changed the scenario, the setting, and the characters because I'd gone off them a little.

Been trying to sit down and squeeze out some writing over the course of the weekend, but I keep getting sidetracked with planning innane little details - the kind of stuff that wouldn't really matter until someone adapts it as a film and I get quizzed by the special effects people... and yet its seemingly of extreme importanse to me n' my muse.

Am I the only one that gets sidelined and entrenched by over-planning? Anyone know any solutions to drag me out of it?

[Daria Nytherciria]

I spent an entire weekend just making a family tree for ONE family in the last project I was working on. It went back about 8 generations and had at least 5 or 6 branches. The majority of the characters had absolutely no importance to the story.

You are not the only one who gets bogged down in unnecessary details |I

[Mu Satach]

With my script there's about 5 lifetimes worth of story I had to work out in my head just so I knew how each character would react in each situation OR had to come up with so I knew why they reacted the way I had written them.

I've seen a few other writers I work with create massive background history sheets for each character, that nobody ever really gets to read. As the writer they need to know it, but the reader only needs to read what is important to the story.

In fact, eventually I've got to figure out an entire socio-economic-political system for a story I work on now and again. Not that I think right now I'll have any of that information play a part in the story, but I've got to know how the system works.

At this point though, I don't even know how the whole story fits together. I have and have had the basic plot since 1992. Chronologically there is a beginning, middle and end... but the story arc isn't going to fit together that way. Right now, I'm not sure where any of it fits in relation to the rest of it.

Nonsensical ramblings, I'm just typing out my thoughts as they come. Story has been bugging me very much recently. I've been thinking about it for about 6 months, so I decided tonight I'm going to start the 1st draft this weekend. Hopefully I'll figure out some of it as I go.

[Khendon Sevon]

Am I the only one that gets sidelined and entrenched by over-planning? Anyone know any solutions to drag me out of it?

It's not uncommon, at all. That's why there are so many would-be-writers and so few real writers.

You need to strike a balance between planning and actually writing. I can't tell you "plan this way" or "write that way", it's all individual.

That being said, here's my madness... method? Definitely madness:

1) I try to always write. Even if I'm at the beginning of planning something, I'm writing. I don't care if it's for the story, or for something else, I'm constantly writing. Why is this important? It keeps your writing chops up, and lets your mind wander. Most of this is throw away writing.

2) I try to plan always. What do I mean by that? I mean, I'm currently writing chapter 4 of 41 of my novel. Everything is planned out. I have everything developed in detail. Well, I sat under a tree yesterday, took out my notebook, and explored some other avenues.

You have to keep your writing up, and your creative juices.

It's also important to, you know, force yourself to do things that you think would kill your creative prowess. Like, sit down and actually say, "Here's chapter 1-30." That doesn't mean you're actually going to end up using what you've just created; but, it will help you realize what you want to do, what you don't want to do, etc.

I'm living on a schedule right now.

7:30 to 8:15/20 - Wake up, work out, shower, make breakfast if I feel like it.
8:15 to 9:00 - Get in as much writing as I feel comfortable doing.
9:00 to 9:40 - Transit to work. Usually listening to music. Now my day is setup to think about my story in my free time (having already put my creative juices to work in the early morning).
6, 7, whenver - Get back from work. Make dinner. Watch a TV show. Work out. Write until midnight, then sleeeeep.

It's pretty flexible. I just try to workout every morning and night, and to write every morning and night.

[Captain Untouchable]

I've set myself up with a wiki. At the minute, its just a glorified dictionary of words and terminology, but its a heck of a lot more organised than the hundreds of sheets of paper and dozens of Notepad files cluttering up my harddrive.

Finally got started on chapter one... and then had to stop, because I realised that I never gave names to my characters. In my notes, they're down as "Captain", "Sarge" and "Lance"... so I spent hours scouring the internet for appropriate character names. They're now Adeo(datus), Iakona, and Tycho respectively.

I also gained some interesting new trivia facts for my brain's collective of useless crap: for example, did you know that meaning of Zarathustra (as in, the guy from the Zoroastrian religion) is "he whose camels are angry" ? :lol

[Mu Satach]

BEHOLD! He who has the angry camels cometh!

I like it. :)

[Khendon Sevon]

By the by, everyone should version control their novels.

What's version control? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Version_control

I use subversion, since I run my own subversion server (unlimited bandwidth, unlimited storage, for me--I use it for my personal programming projects). But, if you don't have your own server, then I'd suggest DropBox:

http://www.getdropbox.com/

Which is pretty sexy.

What technology I'm currently using to write this scifi novel:
- http://www.linoit.com for all of my initial idea vomiting.
- http://docs.google.com for storage of my 20ish page outline.
- Two moleskin notebooks for musings and various other notes I had before I decided to make everything digital.
- Subversion for version control of my writing.
- OpenOffice Writer & Microsoft Word (depends on the computer I'm using and the operating system).
- My cellphone for random notes and ideas I have while on the train or drunk at a party.

Pretty crazy stuff. Just thought I'd share.

[Mu Satach]

Just started looking at implementing subversion for our websites. Never thought of using it for writing, that makes sense though.

I finally cleared off my desk at home. Also found all my old notes from the story that has been bugging me lately. Basically - I have no excuse for not working on it again. Just need to start clocking hours on it.

[Khendon Sevon]

Talk about a productivity boost:

I just got a Netbook (Asus 1000HE) and installed the Ubuntu netbook remix on it. It's insane. Not only does it look super sexy (especially with my black and white Kiera Knightley wallpaper); but, it's insanely performant and has a wonderful battery life (so far, about 6 hours with me listening to music, surfing the net, and writing).

I had off from work today and pounded out about 8 pages. That's pretty intense considering they're dense pages.

The most important part is that I now have a platform that I use while on the train or subway. I'm using OpenOffice for my writing, and I'm accessing subversion through the command line to keep everything synced (yes, you could use a GUI; but, I'm in love with command lines).

I currently have 11 chapters (92 pages) written of 43.

This thing is going to be damn thick if this keeps up.

[Dai]

Recently, I've been writing everywhere. The old-fashion way with the pen & pad, as well as on the labtop and desktop. More often than not, at least for me, it has to fester organically. If there is a big plan, I just let it go around my head in my free time - obssess, get passionate - then open the flood gates on the page.

Or whatever works, as Woody Allen would say.

[Drin Kizael]

In November of last year, I started what I think I can call my first serious attempt at getting a novel out. It's a severe update of a story I started when I was 12. I'm 14,000 or so words into it. I'm staring at chapter 6 now.

A note of advice to anyone who is not going to self-publish... Keep it under 100,000 words (30-some chapters). Honestly, even that is pushing it. If you are looking to get picked up by an agent, shoot for 80,000 or less (20-some chapters), or they are likely to not even look at it.