Royal Proposition - Territory Acquisition

[Miranda Tarkin]

In light of the IC defections or possible defections, I wanted to propose something that will gain some loyalty to Miranda.

Now since the start of the IC campaign of Miranda rising to the throne, I knew there would be some Imperials playing their characters siding against her for various reasons. Now with the Inquisitors scaring some of the Moffs saved by Tear and the Rebellion opposition, there is territory out there waiting to be claimed!

Now Prak is going to hit Mon Cal, but there are other opportunities to RP out other sectors of space. In order to gain favor with the new Empress and claim power, I can have it that any loyal Imperials that hunt down the rogue Generals/Admirals/Moffs and win can lay claim to governing that sector of space.

does this sound like a good idea?

It just seems that once things went into play, everyone is going poof on me, or maybe, except Anar and the Inqs. Makes me feel like I did something wrong :p

[Tear]

I like it. It has a very Imperial tone to it. Rewarding the military commanders with the rights to whatever they conquer.

IE: (This is just an example) but if Kraken managed to take Mon Cal the planet would be given to him to govern along with all the wealth and power that comes with it.

Flush rebels out of an entire sector? Its yours to govern now.
Re-take a sector from the Rebellious Moffs Tear rescued? Its yours to govern now.

As such it would fall on you to protect your sector from the rebellion while giving you the chance to govern it as you see fit. Build shipyards, add to your fleet, make a fancy flag for yourself...etc;)

Basically its rewarding those loyal to the Empire and more specifically Miranda. Being in the Empresses good graces has its benefits.

On another point, if Travis runs off, those who bring him back or take back whatever sector he chooses to call home would be well rewarded indeed.

[Captain Untouchable]

Not everyone is turning against you! I'm giving you a shiny new Corporate Sector to play with. :angel

I've got a character who is going to be ousted as the Moff of the Bothan Sector over the course of the current Rebel arc; it might make sense (assuming that he can get the ships together) for him to go and conquer one of the defecting Sectors, as a way of redeeming himself.

How do Moffs fit into the infrastructure of the military? Their insignia suggest they're higher than most forms of Admiral, but could a Moff (specifically one who didn't have any territory left) pull rank on someone so he could borrow their fleet for a conquest?

[Tear]

Moffs tend to direct military control over their governed sectors. Giving orders to admirals in their sector to maintain order for example. Most Moffs tended to be High Admirals themselves.

I know a Grand Moff would most definitely have the power to 'borrow' an Admirals fleet. But a Moff who has had his sector taken by rebels, leaving him for the most part a Moff just in title with no real power left...its a good question.

I would say go for it. You could always go directly to the Empress who could grant you a fleet to go a' conquerin with.

[Vince]

From what I've understood, the Moffs are like Military Governors. So in their sectors they pull more weight than admirals, but off planet that situation changes. But then, we have Grand Moff Tarkin to remember, though he was the Moff of all Moffs.

I'm thinking that it would actually be interesting to see R... that Moff... kind of go to Miranda and beg her for a chance to redeem himself. Miranda could then dangle a carrot in front of him and offer him the rights to whatever sector he conquers.

[Miranda Tarkin]

A tasty shiny carrot laced with arsenic :mischief

[Vince]

A tasty shiny carrot laced with arsenic :mischief

...That was my assumption. :lol

[Aurelias Kazaar]

Just pretend I'm logged in as Millard.

I like that idea. Good suggestion Miranda :)

[Miranda Tarkin]

It was a joint effort tho Taylor ^_^

:glomp's Tear for helping

which is just a weird. Me glomping ... him! :lol

[Tiberius Anar]

Ok- I posted an immediate reply that was frankly stupidly confusing. THat's what we get for letting me have a break at work. I'm going to take a little time to think about this and give a proper opinion about this idea. Be back to y'all soon I hope.

[Tiberius Anar]

Ok, here we go.

I like this idea- plenty of good opportunities for fun when we consider that some military commanders are going to see any policy of this sort as an invitation to scrap with their military superiors or with their semi-civilian masters, the moffs. If Miranda institutes this there will be consequences (such as, perhaps, the creation of fiefdoms in which she basically has no say or feuds between people) that she did not foresee. How she and her supporters deal with will be excellent for character development and drama.

I do, however, feel that we need to consider adjusting our premise just a bit. I think this for two reasons, connected with one another.

First of all- I think we may have forgotten the fundamental of roleplaying: those characters we play are the heroes- the extraordinary people who make some difference to the things around them- the active few and not the majority who are passive. The reason I say this is because Miranda's initial post points to a belief that because a large part of our OOC group- Travis- plans on taking his character out of the Empire in response to the elevation of Miranda (for good IC reasons I hasten to point out) this points to a large part of the Empire IC feeling this way: it does not. Travis and the people who follow him will represent only a tiny part of a massive population (trillions of trillions) most of which cares not one jot for who is Empress so long as the lights come on, food is served to them and there's a decent holomovie on pay-per-view- Miranda's government is doing that so why would they get upset and change loyalties?

What I am driving at (and this is the second point) is that it would be really quite unlikely that a moff or senior commander could turn traitor and succeed in taking their entire command (inc any civilians) with them; it would be even less likely that several moffs/commanders could achieve this feat. What is more likely is that some moffs or commanders could, with the support of a relatively small group of their own supporters take a more subtle approach. What if instead splitting from the Empire or trying to setup their own fiefdom, what if, say, a moff in a Mid-rim sector ignored central directives, made up his own policies and generally did his own thing “for the greater good” or out of sheer self-interest? He/she could pass off as still a loyal Imperial whilst betraying Miranda. Others adopt a similar approach- not as a conspiracy or anything though it would appear to be one to some loyalists- leading to a problem big enough to provoke Miranda to take what, I am sure you would all agree, would be the dangerous step of turning to the military for help.

The step would be dangerous (as if we do this Anar will point out IC) because it risks turning the military into a kind of heavily armed bounty hunting force if the situation is widely publicised or gone at too dramatically. The armed forces must be concentrated on the war not on politicking for territory and this point, I would hope, would become plain IC leading to a moderation of approach on the part of Miranda et al would be to turn to the loyal commanders in affected sectors and use them to reassert control “using appropriate means” and with the implication that, so long as the territory is put back under proper control (i.e. not just run by an Imperial but also run in line with the Empress’s wishes) a little pocket-lining or profiteering as payment for loyalty would be ok.

I actually have an idea of how this conception of things could be introduced but I won't go into that now- no point til things are agreed properly.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

*ahem* it isn't a royal proposition, its an Imperial proposition. Miranda isn't royalty. ;)

[Tear]

Ok, here we go.

I like this idea- plenty of good opportunities for fun when we consider that some military commanders are going to see any policy of this sort as an invitation to scrap with their military superiors or with their semi-civilian masters, the moffs. If Miranda institutes this there will be consequences (such as, perhaps, the creation of fiefdoms in which she basically has no say or feuds between people) that she did not foresee. How she and her supporters deal with will be excellent for character development and drama.

That's interesting. Feuds between two sectors would be fun to read.



First of all- I think we may have forgotten the fundamental of roleplaying: those characters we play are the heroes- the extraordinary people who make some difference to the things around them- the active few and not the majority who are passive. The reason I say this is because Miranda's initial post points to a belief that because a large part of our OOC group- Travis- plans on taking his character out of the Empire in response to the elevation of Miranda (for good IC reasons I hasten to point out) this points to a large part of the Empire IC feeling this way: it does not. Travis and the people who follow him will represent only a tiny part of a massive population (trillions of trillions) most of which cares not one jot for who is Empress so long as the lights come on, food is served to them and there's a decent holomovie on pay-per-view- Miranda's government is doing that so why would they get upset and change loyalties?

While you make a good point that while OOC our characters are little more then 'heroes' with great effect on the world around them, its that latter point that gives them weight.

While Travis may be just one man. His loss from the Empire will be a big one. IC Travis has a high rank and the admiration of his fellows in the military. IF someone you admire voices their opinions its likely you will be influenced by them. It's the bleeding of military personnel who are being influenced which this proposal is trying to stem. While admiration is one aspect of winning ones loyalty, greed and pride is certainly another.

Civilians like you previously noted, however, likely do not care who is the Emperor or Empress as long as their lights are on and they are fed. In a large part the above is seen to by the sector commander, or in many cases the Moff. So if they see it fit to scare their population into submission its the Moff governing them who can do it.



What I am driving at (and this is the second point) is that it would be really quite unlikely that a moff or senior commander could turn traitor and succeed in taking their entire command (inc any civilians) with them; it would be even less likely that several moffs/commanders could achieve this feat.

You tend to listen to those that command you more so then a figure head of state. While there are those "god save the queen" types. It is more likely a soldier will follow his commanders orders. Men who serve together generally have the same affliations/mentality. Especially when it isn't a small group but rather hundreds of thousands that have defected the same as you.

IE: I love the Queen but my four other mates are listening to the commander of my unit and telling me 'its the right thing to do'. I'm probably going to listen to my friends rather then holding up some drilled ideal that the Queen is best. I've never even met the queen but i've trained and bled with my friends.

But I agree a large number of Moffs defecting at the same time and working together out of necessity that would be a bit unlikely. Unless say, someone turned them into traitors already and put a death mark on them.:rolleyes



The step would be dangerous (as if we do this Anar will point out IC) because it risks turning the military into a kind of heavily armed bounty hunting force if the situation is widely publicised or gone at too dramatically. The armed forces must be concentrated on the war not on politicking for territory and this point, I would hope, would become plain IC leading to a moderation of approach on the part of Miranda et al would be to turn to the loyal commanders in affected sectors and use them to reassert control “using appropriate means” and with the implication that, so long as the territory is put back under proper control (i.e. not just run by an Imperial but also run in line with the Empress’s wishes) a little pocket-lining or profiteering as payment for loyalty would be ok.

I actually have an idea of how this conception of things could be introduced but I won't go into that now- no point til things are agreed properly.
I do like your idea of a more subtle revolution of sorts taking place and I think its got some great story lines revolving around inner Imperial politics that should be a lot of fun. I'm just pointing out whats already happened is feasible and theres no really back tracking that of which has already been written and is in the process of being done.

*Quick edit*


*ahem* it isn't a royal proposition, its an Imperial proposition. Miranda isn't royalty. ;)

Oh sNap! Thems fighting words.

[Travis North]

On another point, if Travis runs off, those who bring him back or take back whatever sector he chooses to call home would be well rewarded indeed.

:ohno That's menacing.

Good thing I plan to avoid capture. It'd really suck if Tear got a hold of Travis. I recall the beating he gave Darriann.

Unfortunately, I still have to break away. Surprisingly my plans for doing that keep getting crushed by the Rebellion. *Shakes fist* You guys aren't making this easy.

[Tiberius Anar]

I concede that the flipside of my logic re:civillians is that their being governed by a moff rather than the Empress is unlikely to bother them. I also see your point about those in military service going along with their peers and commander for most practical purposes.

HOWEVER (knew this was coming yes?) I would submit that there is a difference between going along with slightly suspect commands and acquiessing in the personal foibles of a governor or commander on the one hand and actively and conciously participating in their treason on the other. The former is both likely and excusable (or at least susceptible to rationalisation) but the latter would require that those supporting a rouge superior agree with them or are so loyal to them as to overide every other loyalty. When I say "every other loyalty" I mean not just to the Empress but to friends and family because, we must remember, this is the Empire and there are those (including some very close to the Empress) who are thought to go after not just you but everyone connected with you.

[Miranda Tarkin]

*ahem* it isn't a royal proposition, its an Imperial proposition. Miranda isn't royalty. ;)

Sure I am :cool: House Tarkin is a Noble House

[Tear]

I concede that the flipside of my logic re:civillians is that their being governed by a moff rather than the Empress is unlikely to bother them. I also see your point about those in military service going along with their peers and commander for most practical purposes.

HOWEVER (knew this was coming yes?) I would submit that there is a difference between going along with slightly suspect commands and acquiessing in the personal foibles of a governor or commander on the one hand and actively and conciously participating in their treason on the other. The former is both likely and excusable (or at least susceptible to rationalisation) but the latter would require that those supporting a rouge superior agree with them or are so loyal to them as to overide every other loyalty. When I say "every other loyalty" I mean not just to the Empress but to friends and family because, we must remember, this is the Empire and there are those (including some very close to the Empress) who are thought to go after not just you but everyone connected with you.

You make some valid points. Valid points that would really effect higher ups in the government. The top brass and such.

As for trooper 427 with three kids, no matter his loyalty to the Empire he's going to follow his commanders order. Likely because his commander has been his commander for years. Where Miranda has been Empress for...a few months.

Miranda's strongest ties are with those contacts she likely had as a Moff within Doldur(sp?). Those contacts likely grew in her campaign to become Empress and just by becoming Empress some would flock for purely that reason.

I do agree with you Anar on the point that such a massive scale of dissent and rebellion by a large group of Moffs would be reeeeally unlikely. And like you pointed out earlier it would be more likely to see a more subtle revokation of her powers in sectors were the Moffs took to leading things in the name of the "Empire".

(this is more in defense of the current group of Moffs in rebellion, im not opposing your idea)

However (yes, I do it too), the catalyst was not the Moffs themselves but rather Miranda and Valten who branded them traitors to the Empire. These Moffs ,that Tear has rescued, will return to their sectors with stories on how Miranda is not who she appears to be etc, etc. Who knows what that Moff might say on his return? That Miranda has branded them all traitors? And who will those military men listen to? The Moff who they have served with for years? Or an Empress they don't even know who's been in power for (at the time of they're being labled of treason) merely a week at best?

Back to the presentation of your idea, if you want to have story arc involving more subtle 'patriots' beginning to ignore the throne, then by all means, I whole heartedly encourage it. More stories and intrigue for all makes for interesting times. But it would have to be a different group of Moffs then those already taken away by Tear.

[Travis North]

Everyone should understand that Travis is a man of the law and a peacekeeper. It'd be out of character for him to just turn his guns on the "loyalists" as he still holds the Empire in high regards. He is however strongly opposed to the moves made by Miranda and her Inquisitor buddies and does not stand for actions that would lead to further instabilities and conflict upon the beings who live in the Galaxy.

Internal struggles of the Empire only serve to weaken the affected sectors so they may be taken by the Alliance. Publicly ousting the Moffs, supposed traitors/heretics, of these sectors is the worst possible move as they serve to maintain stability between planets and star systems. You charge one guy with conspiracy his entire network feels it. By taking out the man with connections holding his entire sector together it will collapse leaving it vulnerable and harder to put back together. Poisoning him and spinning it as a Alliance assassination plot would have worked better PR wise and left some structure intact to control and rebuild.

Politicians don't want people losing faith in Government, which is unfortunately seeming to be the case for Miranda. If it gets out that she is a crook bad things are gonna happen. Palpatine played a tighter game, but he was Sith Lord after all.

[Miranda Tarkin]

Well, to be fair ... I was all for the quiet assassinations, but Karl wanted to go for the gusto and drive home a point. So I had Miranda go along with that, but it actually fit well with Tear had planned. IC Miranda grew tired of the corrupt Moffs and honestly, if she did it this way or killed them all quietly, everyone would know it was her. Least she is actually owning up to her decisions and there is PROOF.

Remember, Miranda has all that information of Khendon's plot and all those accomplishes. Those Moffs, NPC Moffs, are Khendon's accomplices that got caught red handed because Khendon trusted Miranda :mischief. I just want you guys to know that it wasn't some willy nilly oh you guys hate me so poof. The ones that were being tried have actual crimes attached to their names and were going on trial (which would have been explained in the public speech >_>)

EDIT - I just wanted to clear that up because it sounds like you thought Miranda just did this, branded them traitors for no reason. That she is corrupt, which is actually not the case :| She never would have done anything so bold if there was no proof behind it. She respects the Empire greatly and regardless of the stability those Moffs had been creating, they were ready to cause mass amounts of bloodshed in a coup that went through all levels of government and military. The Empire cannot afford having Moffs like that in power who thought that was a good idea.

I feel that her views are more like how 24 is right now. Wait, these people have corrupted the government? Take them out. Now. We can reorganize once they are in custody with these people. Course that was until they were taken away. :mneh

does that make sense guys? Miranda isn't stupid and doing things for no reason.

[Tear]

Oh of course, I was leaning more towards the point of view of the military under the Moffs command, explaining why they would follow their sector leader in a treasonous act. And why such a large group of Moffs are working together in the first place.

[Tiberius Anar]

And I was just doing what I always do which is questioning things to test their realism- you know me and realism.

I am rather looking forward to playing Anar's reaction to Miranda turning over territory to the military commanders, if that is permitted of course.

[Miranda Tarkin]

I would also think Moffs expanding there territories would want in on this too, for nearby systems wanting to revolt :mischief

And of course you can Anar :)

Lastly, just an add on to what i said before ... it wouldn't surprise me if one of the Moffs that Miranda had proof on might have had some leanings towards supporting her/or did/ or might have >_> But alas ....

[Park Kraken]

Excuse me for my absence, I've been sucked back into the black hole known as WoW.....

An idea for my assassin character, and an Inquisition plot - Shadow goes around killing five commanders/moffs devotedly loyal to Miranda, then leaves a trail of evidence that leads investigators to suspect the less loyal moffs are behind the killings, as a way of trimming off her support before cutting her down.

[Rossos Atrapes]

Excuse me for my absence, I've been sucked back into the black hole known as WoW.....

An idea for my assassin character, and an Inquisition plot - Shadow goes around killing five commanders/moffs devotedly loyal to Miranda, then leaves a trail of evidence that leads investigators to suspect the less loyal moffs are behind the killings, as a way of trimming off her support before cutting her down.

It doesn't sound bad, but I have a question off the top of my head:

As for the 'plot', who would be the instigator, or person behind the scenes? Shadow himself? A nameless Inquisitor looking to dethrone the Empress?

[Park Kraken]

Now Shadow wouldn't be looking to dethrone the Empress, but secure her position by allowing the people going against her to be arrested.

The Instigator, or person who ordered Shadow to do this, would have to be someone high up on the food chain, possibly even the Grand Inquisitor himself.

[Tear]

Now Shadow wouldn't be looking to dethrone the Empress, but secure her position by allowing the people going against her to be arrested.

The Instigator, or person who ordered Shadow to do this, would have to be someone high up on the food chain, possibly even the Grand Inquisitor himself.

Which Grand Inquisitor, Karl? Why would Karl order the deaths of Moffs who are "devotedly loyal" to Miranda to be killed, then frame others who were "not so loyal." Sounds like a backwards way to strengthen her position as Empress. Since they already made a list of those who are "not so loyal" and labeled them traitors.

If Shadow needs some high ranking officials to assassinate I hear there is a Rebel council meeting that might be taking place on Mon Cal. Possibly under a siege as well. Or you could go after the Moffs on Miranda and Valtens list who somehow managed to escape. Killing them would definitely secure Miranda's seat of power and make you a lot of friends as well with...

...some very unforgiving enemies too.;)

[Rossos Atrapes]

Now Shadow wouldn't be looking to dethrone the Empress, but secure her position by allowing the people going against her to be arrested.

The Instigator, or person who ordered Shadow to do this, would have to be someone high up on the food chain, possibly even the Grand Inquisitor himself.

Which Grand Inquisitor, Karl? Why would Karl order the deaths of Moffs who are "devotedly loyal" to Miranda to be killed, then frame others who were "not so loyal." Sounds like a backwards way to strengthen her position as Empress. Since they already made a list of those who are "not so loyal" and labeled them traitors.

If Shadow needs some high ranking officials to assassinate I hear there is a Rebel council meeting that might be taking place on Mon Cal. Possibly under a siege as well. Or you could go after the Moffs on Miranda and Valtens list who somehow managed to escape. Killing them would definitely secure Miranda's seat of power and make you a lot of friends as well with...

...some very unforgiving enemies too.;)

Ah. I agree with Tear in that it seems like it would do as much harm as good in the end for Miranda.

I could have sworn I read it elsewhere, but there are quite a few other Moffs on the "List", that haven't been arrested on Karl's orders yet or secreted off by Tear. Shadow could go through and take a few of them out on the orders of Valten or Atrapes (which, like many other things, would have to happen before this elusive "day of Atrapes's capture.") .

[Park Kraken]

eh, I could do that as well. BTW, I didn't mean moffs on Miranda's side as much as starfleet commanders, perhaps some of the ones who are loyal, but not real competent, perhaps?