Christianity

[Park Kraken]

Originally Posted byCat X
And despite the fact Obama is the kind of Christian who .... OMG!.... gets out on the streets and helps the poor and homeless (well damn, a Christian actually doing what Jesus told us to do?)


Explain please.

From what I've seen and heard, unlike ten or twenty years ago, a lot more people from the local and national churches are actually getting out on the streets and helping both locals and people who need help in poor 3rd world countries.

So yes, please explain.

P.S.; we could really use a "Debate" Icon.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

No good will come of this. I would prefer that this conversation takes place via PM.

[Khendon Sevon]

Oh, man...

Did he just open up a topic talking about religion?

Not only that, but it's Christianity!!!

And it's about Christianity and charity!!!

Yeah. This is a bad idea. Go debate on somethingawful.

[Park Kraken]

No good will come of this. I would prefer that this conversation takes place via PM.

True enough, although I would have loved for other people to chime in and add their own thoughts and 2-cents. After all, what happens in one area may not be the same thing as happens in another area.

In closing the thread then, I have two particular examples of why his statement is both accurate and inaccurate.

Accurate - A Baptist church my parents attends launches missions to Northern Mexico and Nicaragua to help improve the lifestyles and conditions that people there live in...provided of course they help to build churches and become english speaking baptists themselves.

Inaccurate - A Lutheran church I went to for middle school launches missions across the world and locally, and while some of them do intend to convert others into christiandom, others are just intended to clean up the earth or help the local man, whether he be devout christian or atheist or a man of another religion.

And that closes my first and only public arguement.

[Cat X]

Yeah. This is a bad idea. Go debate on somethingawful.

Somethingawful is even more immature and wrong about religion as they are about drugs. Those are the two topics I wouldnt trust a single thing about from that place. It's also a bad idea if the topic isnt treated with some respect and facts. I'm also wlling to be challenged opening and will respond openly as best as I can :)

Plus, whether some realise it or not, we have had perfectly good faith discussions that didnt decend into flame wars, even quite recently. You probably didnt read the thread where it sparked up and got quite good :)

Kraken -

Actually, that's not true. The workers on the field have become a lot fewer in the last 20 years - organisations like Sisters of Mercy and the Salvation Army are declining in mebership and not as much young blood is coming through, in some cases convents that had hundreds of sisters now have so few they have to close. Services that were church run are being forced to fall back to private or government hands due to lack of numbers. Now while field trips have increased (and this is wehre the quoted numbers of more int he field usually come from) it hides the real problem - what is needed is more people who will dedicate themselves that pretty much shame the rest of us. Now for instance I'm getting involved in a church group that is designed to help but the numbers are few and I myself admittedly dont do what I would really like to do. All I've done is donate clothes and do some IT work for it. That makes me uneasy that there's more that can be done but not being done. I dont know what I can say further on that without hanging my head in shame.

Well I guess I spread the Gospel? No, dont make up for it. Faith begets works. My faith must be thence weak :/

Charity giving are falling too I have to add. I think that's a reflection on the economic situation tho, not the lack of a desire to give and help. But the pressure on church groups is getting higher as the workers decline.

Now as for "who's example should we follow", for a Christian the real answer lies in the Sermon on the Mount, The parable of the Sheep and the Goats, and also whom Jesus chose to be most critcal of. The Sermon is a truly profoundly moral speech and also an ideal unattainable by us fallen beings. The Parable fo the Sheep and the goats describes whom the Lord wants us to truly help. And the Pharasees of the day were always the real targets and were the ones Jesus scorned. In his day, Prositutes, minorities and tax collectors were the reviled of society. He chose to be with them, not the ones who said they were righteous.

These days I guess Prostitutes, gay and minorities - some things never change!

In general, I would say religion is going to become a minority thing soon enough - I'm fairly comfortable with that. I'd rather have 1 sincere Christian than 100 church every Christmas ones. And thence faith based organisations will continue to decline for whatever reasons.

[Charley]

It would be rather interesting to see some data that wasn't purely anecdotal on this. I'm not even sure who tabulates that sort of thing, what with all of Christianity's denominations sorta doing their own thing.

I do know that the problem with voluntary charity (whether faith-based or no) is the inverse relationship between the volume of need and the availability of resources. In a recession, you've got more people poor, more people laid off & unemployed, more people foreclosed out of their homes and living on the street, and more people who find themselves in a position to need some help.

Conversely, you've got less people who are inclined to give of time and money because of the downward effect. Their discretionary money is tight, and they have less to give. Mark already mentioned this, just figured I'd try and give some perspective.

I do work with a charity group that's affiliated with several churches and synagogues in the Greater Birmingham area, and from my last donation, I saw the situation was pretty bleak.

I think a lot of people are cavalier about the Christian obligation of the tithe, and that's partially because I think they're disconnected from the result. Is somebody's $5 in the offering plate going to the "building fund" in a church? Is it going to a missionary outfit? I think it would really be nice if there was a systematic approach to looking at the tithe as not just something that gets tossed in a plate every Sunday, but maybe occasionally giving of a Sunday afternoon to do something?

[Wei Wu Wei]

I know I don't tithe, because that 10% of my income is the difference between eating and sleeping with a roof over my head and "fasting" and sleeping in hermitage under the Spring Street bridge.

I do make up for it with a donation of time.

Most of my history on Christians working for charity is anecdotal too, so I won't go into detail. However, I do notice that more and more people tend to gravitate towards a message of Christianity that says, "Be cool, have fun, follow Jesus. He'll hook you up for life!" Not many people discuss the sacrificing and serving part anymore. At least that's true for my area.

I know that several Catholic churches will require their youth to do community service as a part of their Confirmation into the Church and from time to time most churches will take their youth on mission trips to various locations local and global when they can.

But having directed a few ministry organizations and been a member of several more, I will say that a steady dose of Christian service will significantly change the way you view your faith.

Ultimately, I do what I can when I can, and pray that God has mercy on me when I don't. I can't help but think God understands.