Star Wars: The Old Republic - Out Dec 20th WORLDWIDE

[Yog]

.. and it is a MMO!

Yeah, this has been a rumour for ages, but now it is confirmed:



E3 2008: EA CEO confirms KOTOR MMO
John Riccitiello tells Conde Nast Portfolio that BioWare's mystery massively multiplayer project is a third installment in the Star Wars series.

Ever since it was announced in 2006, BioWare's massively multiplayer role-playing game has been shrouded in mystery. Though the Canadian developer opened a satellite studio in Austin, Texas, just to develop it, its cofounders Ray Muzyka and Greg Zeschuk maintained an iron wall of silence. However, Electronic Arts knew enough about the title to help convince the company to buy BioWare/Pandemic for $860 million last year.

Today, as E3 2008 wound down, the fog hanging around BioWare's MMORPG appears to have dissipated. Less than 72 hours after presiding over EA's own press event--where the project was nowhere to be found--CEO John Riccitiello almost casually revealed the MMORPG in question is a sequel of sorts to Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic.

"We've got two of the most compelling MMOs in the industry in development," Riccitiello told Conde Nast Portfolio magazine. "The first title, based on the Warhammer property, will launch soon. And the one that people are dying for us to talk to them about in partnership with Lucas [Arts is] coming out of BioWare, which is, I think, quite possibly the most anticipated game, full stop, for the industry." When contacted by GameSpot, BioWare reps declined to comment further.

BioWare's first Star Wars: Knights of the Old Republic game was released in 2003 for the original Xbox and PC, and was named the year's top RPG by GameSpot. An Obsidian Entertainment-developed sequel was released in 2004 and 2005 on the same two respective platforms. Both critically acclaimed games are set several thousand years before the events of the Star Wars films, and cast players as adventurers who eventually become powerful Jedi Knights.

Currently, the Knights of the Old Republic MMORPG is set for release sometime in 2009. Once it launches, it is unclear what will happen to LucasArts' current massively multiplayer title, the Sony Online Entertainment-developed Star Wars Galaxies.

http://www.gamespot.com/news/6194664.html?action=convert&om_clk=latestnews&tag=latestnews;title;1

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well this will probably be the end of Star Wars Galaxies, although is anybody still playing that game? I might pick it up depending on what people think of it.

[Crusader]

So in other words Rest in Peaces SWG. The SW MMOG is dead long live the SW MMOG.
So they are now making a MMOG where everyone can play a Jedi or a Mandalorian without violating the lore. This sounds cool but when will they finally release a game where you can play an average Joe fighting in the galactic civil war without being a Jedi.

[Jedi Master Carr]

its probably what should have been done in the first place. They knew everybody would want to be a jedi. Also they don't have worry about upset anything in the films since that is an unknown period and even in the EU there is barely anything written about it.

[Yog]

Well this will probably be the end of Star Wars Galaxies, although is anybody still playing that game? I might pick it up depending on what people think of it.
There is a 1 month free reactivation of inactive accounts for former customers. Just install the client and login with your old username and password and you're in. Don't get too excited though, all the servers are ghost towns. The game is on life support with only 20K subscribers global (they never merged servers). NGE effectively deleted 32 classes and turned them into 7 or 8, with really lame character progression and combat. So you will have to respec. You will be lucky to find a single player in Theed Starport.



So in other words Rest in Peaces SWG. The SW MMOG is dead long live the SW MMOG.
So they are now making a MMOG where everyone can play a Jedi or a Mandalorian without violating the lore. This sounds cool but when will they finally release a game where you can play an average Joe fighting in the galactic civil war without being a Jedi.
I suspect, if this game is successful, Bioware may be tempted to make a MMO sequel based in classic Star Wars universe. Whatever happens, I hope SOE stays the hell out of any future Star Wars MMO project now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well this will probably be the end of Star Wars Galaxies, although is anybody still playing that game? I might pick it up depending on what people think of it.
There is a 1 month free reactivation of inactive accounts for former customers. Just install the client and login with your old username and password and you're in. Don't get too excited though, all the servers are ghost towns. The game is on life support with only 20K subscribers global (they never merged servers). NGE effectively deleted 32 classes and turned them into 7 or 8, with really lame character progression and combat. So you will have to respec. You will be lucky to find a single player in Theed Starport.



So in other words Rest in Peaces SWG. The SW MMOG is dead long live the SW MMOG.
So they are now making a MMOG where everyone can play a Jedi or a Mandalorian without violating the lore. This sounds cool but when will they finally release a game where you can play an average Joe fighting in the galactic civil war without being a Jedi.
I suspect, if this game is successful, Bioware may be tempted to make a MMO sequel based in classic Star Wars universe. Whatever happens, I hope SOE stays the hell out of any future Star Wars MMO project now.

Wow that is just plain sad. I will take your word for it because I wouldn't bother reinstalling for that lol.

[Darriann Sollak]

The game responsible for the origin of this character has finally met it's end. Celebration. That said I miss the days of Pre CU and launch day on Chilastra. Good times, except for when I got banned from an Imperial shuttle port after meeting up with Yog. I wasn't even overt Reb at the time.

I hope KotOR III doesn't end up like Galaxies in the way it became SOE's EverQuest: Star Wars. If it is a linear MMO I don't thing I'll be playing that long. The one other thing I hate most about Galaxies is the fact that content from the game was made canon and has been smeared like butter across Wookieepedia's decent articles.

I just did a search and found this (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Old_Man). Honestly Vader should have come down in his shuttle and ended this guys life.

[Crusader]

Daego has tested SWG the last few days :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Daego has tested SWG the last few days :)

How was it?

[Crusader]

He called it wierd! He said that he would have considered SWG a great game if it would have been like that right from the start. The thing he really complained about was that no one was building a lightsabre for him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That sucks, it is sad it didn't start out that way. It will probably die now that this new one is coming out.

[Morgan Evanar]

Why would anyone play SWG? It's just been awful.

[Droo]

Once it launches, it is unclear what will happen to LucasArts' current massively multiplayer title, the Sony Online Entertainment-developed Star Wars Galaxies.

Hahaha! Who cares! They finally announced it! Hurrah! I've been waiting for years to hear this news. :D

[Peter McCoy]

I wonder what the combat will be like, given that KOTOR is D&D turn-based which would not work in an MMO. Also, I really hope they nail the 'massive' part of massively multiplayer, along with the freedom to boot!

Many a night I sat in my camp overlooking Tatooine in Galaxies, awaiting the arrival of Droog on his speeder for some light conversation and musical healing. Then it was off to Dantooine to farm pickets and rake in the credits.

And after that a spot of voritor hunting since someone was paying big money for the meat and hide on the forums. And after a long day I would return to Lok for a well-earned rest in our guild-owned city.

God I miss the pre-CU Galaxies! Here's hoping this new MMO gets it right and keeps it that way!

[Travis North]

"Why are all these dead pickets in circles?" - n00b
"Jedi Grinder." - Bounty Hunter

Hunting voritor hides was good money for the longest time.

Since Dantooine is featured in KotOR maybe it'll make a comeback. I sure hope they've got some good planets to visit like Coruscant or Nar Shaddaa.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Why would anyone play SWG? It's just been awful.

Yeah anybody paying for it now is crazy. I gave up on the game a long time ago. It was not getting better at all.

[Park Kraken]

I think SWG as a MMO RPG was like Force Commander as a RTS - Just plain awful.

I hope the next KOTOR will be like Rebellion as a RTS - Just plain awesome.

Speaking of Star Wars RTS games though - my idea for an awesome RTS would be Rebellion, updated with better graphics, with an expanded option for direct command of a battle, where you can take direct control of a unit in a Star Wars: Alliance type setting to do battle in.

[Peter McCoy]

I remember when SWG was still in development and there were loads of FAQ's about how it was going to work and what you would be able to do in the game.

I had an idea for a character who was a merchant with a shop and if anybody tried to steal anything then the walls opened up to reveal an array of blaster cannons - like in that scene from The Fifth Element when the dood bangs on the glass at the airport and the guns appear in his face :p

Alas, it wasn't as detailed as my expectations.

Fingers crossed for the new one :)

[Alpha]

Wow. I now officially can't wait. :D I've been wanting a THIRD MMO to become addicted to...(sarcasm). But seriously, I have very high hopes for this one. :D I just hope they don't go crashing to the ground...

[Crusader]

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[Crusader]

Sorry I do not know what to say about this...

[Park Kraken]

The Battle of Hoth looked pathetic compared at least to how it appeared in Star Wars: Battlegrounds. Darth Vader looked like he was prancing about like a super model on a runway. He was thin enough to be one too. The snowspeeders looked like they were all being held off the ground by five foot poles attached to tank treads.

Eew eew eew.

[Jedi Master Carr]

lol yeah it looks pretty bad, plus it is a tad too late.

[Yog]

That would have been cool / interesting in 2003.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Is that actually real? The whole thing just felt really... fake to me :huh

[Yog]

Is that actually real? The whole thing just felt really... fake to me :huh

Yeah, it's ingame graphics. Feels really dated, huh.

The graphics reminds me of the galactic conquest mod for BF1942.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think it was more the comments from the 'designers' that made it feel fake to me :lol

[Crusader]

Is that actually real? The whole thing just felt really... fake to me :huh

Yeah, it's ingame graphics. Feels really dated, huh.

The graphics reminds me of the galactic conquest mod for BF1942.

Hehe Galactic Conquest was awesome... especially the death star 1 map.

and yes you are right. This is coming 4 years too late. But I am shocked that SOE is still willing to put that much time and effort into a sinking ship.

[Droo]

Whatever this big game is, Star Wars or not, the official announcement is due 21st October and Lucas Arts and Bioware seem happy to milk it thanks to the monumental hype around the as yet unknown game. Despite the words of a loose-lipped CEO, no other confirmations have been made but with a promo picture such as <A HREF="http://image.com.com/gamespot/images/2008/279/kotormmo669_screen.jpg">this</A>, how can it not be Star Wars? :)

[Droo]

http://www.swtor.com/

And now it's official! :D

[The Message]

Eesh navigation on that website is brutal but exciting news!

[Yog]

Developer interview:
http://www.gamespot.com/pc/rpg/starwarstheoldrepublic/video/6199708

[Crusader]

It seems like they know what they are doing but let's hope that their ideas are not too ambitious and that they get the visuals right.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I like how it sounds so far. It is interesting they are letting people play solo instead of other games where you almost have to do stuff in groups. I am surprised it will be 300 years after KOTR. So I wonder what happened to Revan?

[Droo]

I like how it sounds so far. It is interesting they are letting people play solo instead of other games where you almost have to do stuff in groups. I am surprised it will be 300 years after KOTR. So I wonder what happened to Revan?

I have highlighted my largest concern with what I've heard about this game thus far. I am dubious about the "companion characters" and the emphasis on "class story". I want an MMO to allow me to interact and work together with other players from the community. Unfortunately, this already sounds a bit too much like a glorified single player RPG to me. Still, it's early days.

[Morgan Evanar]

I hate the art style in the screen shots. Lightsabers the size of thighs wooo.

[Droo]

It's a bit early to judge how it looks, I think, that's why I refrained from saying anything. However, those lightsabers are a joke and I hope something will be done about it. Mind you, I really wish there were no player Jedi or Sith characters. How do you create a balanced game with Jedi and Sith player characters without deviating from the canon of Star Wars which tells us that a Jedi is a superhero compared to your Average Joe. Jedi and Sith characters in MMOs should be strictly NPC.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I wouldn't really want to play a SW MMORPG unless there was the option to place as a Force User, to be honest.

[Droo]

Force User? Fine. Jedi Knight? If done in accordance with Star Wars canon would be a super class compared to others. Having "caster" classes or even melee classes that use the Force to an extent is great, you keep the Star Wars element without unbalancing the game. But you roll a Jedi and you get beat up by a brawler wearing vibroknuckles, then it's complete nonesense.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'm sure there are ways that they could make the game balanced. Making Force Users pick specific talent trees of Force Powers or whatever- so you could either be specialized in fighting other Force Users, or Non-Force Users (think lightsaber combat styles). Likewise, Non-Force Users could be given the option to spec as Force Hunters, using weaponry like slug throwers which couldn't be deflected by sabers?

Jango/Boba Fett could beat Obi Wan Kenobi (and other Jedi), so I don't think it's unfeasible.

[I'nu]

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What a waste of money.
This game is over. And I refuse to re-install it.

But anyhow. If this game comes out anytime next year I'll more than likely play it. The later it gets, the less likely I'll be able to get my hands on it and enjoy it. Looks fine so far. I dont see it sucking as bad as SWG. They couldn't do that twice. And I wont be around for the third times the charm.

Also, my worry is customization of character. SWG, despite all it's flaws, allowed for a lot of character diversity visually. The character creation was pretty wide for it's time. If they can recreate Mass Effects' level...and advance it a bit, then I'd have to say they would be just right.

Speaking of which, I'm waiting for Mass Effects 2 because I've been playing a lot of the first one and I know that story inside-out..

[Morgan Evanar]

It's a bit early to judge how it looks, I think, that's why I refrained from saying anything. However, those lightsabers are a joke and I hope something will be done about it. Mind you, I really wish there were no player Jedi or Sith characters. How do you create a balanced game with Jedi and Sith player characters without deviating from the canon of Star Wars which tells us that a Jedi is a superhero compared to your Average Joe. Jedi and Sith characters in MMOs should be strictly NPC.There were a lot more Jedi and Sith in the Old Republic. Tens of thousands.

[Morgan Evanar]

It's a bit early to judge how it looks, I think, that's why I refrained from saying anything. However, those lightsabers are a joke and I hope something will be done about it. Mind you, I really wish there were no player Jedi or Sith characters. How do you create a balanced game with Jedi and Sith player characters without deviating from the canon of Star Wars which tells us that a Jedi is a superhero compared to your Average Joe. Jedi and Sith characters in MMOs should be strictly NPC.There were a lot more Jedi and Sith in the Old Republic. Tens of thousands.

Unless you can be a Force user, most people aren't going to want to play.

[I'nu]

No worries over here. I joined the community, talked to enough people, and certain that I'll end up loving this game when it comes out. If someone wants to be an average joe, I suggest going with the Sim games, eh?

[Droo]

I know the history and setting but we're talking about making a game here, stating facts doesn't change anything, if there are Jedi and Sith classes then will they be equal to other classes such as a gun-slinger? They will have to be to make the gameplay balanced but the problem is in the authenticity and compliance with what we know as Star Wars lore. Jedi were far beyond any other combatants in the Star Wars universe, say what you want about Jango and Boba Fett, Jango displayed some ability against Obiwan but look at what happened when he came up against Mace Windu - as far as I am concerned, that is what should happen when a ranged class comes up against a Jedi in any game, as for Boba Fett, his ability to kill Jedi is implied in the films but let's face it, he was knocked into the Sarlacc Pit by a half-blind Han Solo.

I mean seriously, what about a melee class fighting a Jedi? It should be a one hit confrontation with the Jedi winning everytime. Anyway.

I fear Jedi and Sith will be a dime a dozen in this game and will consequently be completely lackluster. That is what I don't want, personally, but if there's a way to make the Force user classes balanced in a believable way, then I'm all for it. Perhaps Jedi in those days didn't have the same skill as those from the films, but I doubt that's the case.

And finally, as for your comment about most people not wanting to play a Star Wars game unless they can be Jedi, I just can't see myself buying it, SWG did perfectly well without Jedi characters in the beginning. Like I've said so many times, for better or worse, the name of Star Wars sells itself. The point is moot anyway since these classes will be a part of the game so my main concern with that in mind is the balance of combat mechanics. Colour me open-minded but sceptical.

[Droo]

If someone wants to be an average joe, I suggest going with the Sim games, eh?

Did you even play SWG? Pre-CU and NGE? Jedi characters were as rare as rocking horse poo and players loved the other, non-Force user, classes available. The variety and potential of profession combinations was staggering. What about the people who simply loved crafting back then? Chefs, armoursmiths, droid engineers. They maintained their subscribtion not to swing lightsabers around but to enjoy the crafting element of the game, in fact, if you look harder at these forums you'll see them in great numbers crying out for a solid crafting system in the game. Telling them and people like me, who don't want to play Jedi characters and instead enjoy other grittier class roles from the Star Wars universe, to go play the Sims is particularly daft. Thankfully, the developers haven't taken on that mentality and other classes will be available.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Whatever your preference, Star Wars as a franchise has always centered around one thing in particular - The Force, and people who use the Force whilst waving glow-sticks. Cooking, crafting, etc in my mind should all come second to the central concept of the game. I don't really have any interest in playing a game that is centered around me learning how to build various types of armor or taming/training animals - and I suspect there are many people who feel like me, hence why SWG never took off in the way that other MMORPGs have.

[Droo]

I am wondering where these facts are coming from. SWG took off just as well as any other MMO, except WoW. It never centered around players crafting armour, that was an option available to those who wished to pursue it. Variety is the key word here, many different types of people play these games and consequently, the various tastes should be satisfied. And as I said earlier, having Force sensitive and Force using characters available is perfectly fine and dandy, but I think people will be disappointed when they roll a Jedi character and realise it is just another class and not the special thing they were after in the first place. My point is I'd rather have the sense of mystique and elitism intact when it comes to the Jedi in Star Wars rather than take the reigns and be underwhelmed by how bland I find the experience. Again, all speculation but I just can't see how it is avoidable when a Jedi is a normal class.

[The Message]

I am wondering where these facts are coming from. SWG took off just as well as any other MMO, except WoW. It never centered around players crafting armour, that was an option available to those who wished to pursue it. Variety is the key word here, many different types of people play these games and consequently, the various tastes should be satisfied. And as I said earlier, having Force sensitive and Force using characters available is perfectly fine and dandy, but I think people will be disappointed when they roll a Jedi character and realise it is just another class and not the special thing they were after in the first place. My point is I'd rather have the sense of mystique and elitism intact when it comes to the Jedi in Star Wars rather than take the reigns and be underwhelmed by how bland I find the experience. Again, all speculation but I just can't see how it is avoidable when a Jedi is a normal class.

Is this what you are afraid of?

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[Dasquian Belargic]

SWG took off well? There are those who would beg to differ (http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/issues/issue_101/560-Blowing-Up-Galaxies). I'm not sure why LucasArts would be making another MMORPG, if not for the fact that SWG isn't doing what they want it to do - e.g. earn lots of money and keep the players happy.


I think people will be disappointed when they roll a Jedi character and realise it is just another class and not the special thing they were after in the first place.
I'm sure for some people this will be true, but these are the types of players who want god-like powers in any game they play, regardless of setting (e.g. people who roll Paladins in WoW and expect to DPS and Heal whilst wearing tanking gear). I would think that a good chunk of Star Wars fans are more interested in development and the journey of their character, from hopeless apprentice to newly minted Knight making his mark and so on. It's not just about the powers, after all - the whole history and mythology of the Jedi and the Force will be interesting to explore too.

Games like Jedi Outcast and Dark Forces allowed the player to be a Jedi, and they were great. KOTOR likewise was a lot of fun. Part of what made these games enjoyable was storyline and plot content, rather than just the hack and slash element, so I hope that they bring the same style of engaging narrative to this new MMORPG.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree about SWG. That game was pile of crap from the very beginning. I am not sure why I ever played it. If this game is anything like the KOTR games then it should be great.

[Droo]

That article you linked seems to be referring to the effects of the Combat Upgrade and the New Game Enhancements, they were the things which killed off the game. Don't get me wrong, prior to that SWG was never a very well made game but it was well liked, not WoW popular but it was doing well enough. Post CU and NGE and the game, it's servers, and content were a wasteland.

I don't want to be misunderstood here, I'm not defending SWG, I'm just saying there was a time when it wasn't the complete abomination it became and people were happy to play it in that capacity. You say Lucasarts wouldn't be making a new Star Wars MMO if SWG was doing well, I say we should've had a new Star Wars MMO announced at least two years ago.

[Dasquian Belargic]

BioWare was presumably busy making Mass Effect and whatever else they've been up to, whilst the Star Wars people have been tied up with the various Clone Wars projects, The Force Unleashed and so on. A MMORPG project is a pretty huge undertaking, and the time we've waited could really pay off in terms of showing just how much effort has gone into the creation of SWTOR.


On March 13 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/March_13), 2006 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2006), BioWare announced that they opened a new studio in Austin, Texas (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Austin,_Texas) headed by industry veterans Gordon Walton (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gordon_Walton) and Richard Vogel (http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Richard_Vogel&action=edit&redlink=1), which is already working on developing an MMORPG (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MMORPG).

On October 30, 2007, BioWare has announced it will be again be working with LucasArts (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LucasArts) on a new title.<sup id="cite_ref-1" class="reference">[2] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare#cite_note-1)</sup><sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">[3] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare#cite_note-2)</sup> On October 21, 2008, LucasArts and Bioware confirmed that the MMO they are developing is based in the Star Wars (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Star_Wars) universe, 300 years after their previous title Knights of the Old Republic 2. It is called Star Wars: The Old Republic.<sup id="cite_ref-3" class="reference">[4] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BioWare#cite_note-3)</sup>

From Wikipedia. I guess 2 years ago we did get some indication of a new SW MMORPG on the horizon :lol

[Droo]

I don't doubt it. I'm just saying it would've been nice to have had it two years sooner. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

The original SWG had some really fascinating features/systems (crafting, economy) which were eliminated because the developers didn't understand the systems they created at all. What was amazing was the players who made spreadsheets that showed how those systems worked and how to fix them, and were summarily ignored.

SOE might be the most stupid developer of all time. The only thing they really need to do was fix bugs and slowly add content.

[Yog]

^^ Edit: I also agree 100% with Morgan's post. I was going to write a long rant about SWG but decided against it. The game had potential, but the devs were on drugs.


I actually, agree with Dru. Class variety could become a problem. The problem is when everyone and their hamster carry a lightsaber and have powerful Force abilities. I am curious to see how Bioware handles this in terms of RPG character development features, class choices and balance.

Of course, this game is made by Bioware, who is *slightly* more competent than SOE, different timeline, stonger story elements, and far, far, FAR more immersive. There is a good chance they will release an actual working game.

My main concern is not so much Jedi classes though, but the endgame. Once you reach level cap, what is next? I love the idea of a massive KOTOR game with epic story and choices, and no grind. That sounds like a wonderful way to level up. As any MMO veteran knows though, that type of content only lasts for a while. A deep economy, crafting, strong guild and social features, player housing, raid and group content, guild focused conquerable PvP objectives, dynamic game world, and sandbox elements, that is what makes a MMO interesting in the long term. But I have not heard any of this. In fact, they have not even decided if there should be guilds at all. I worry this will simply be like a collector pack of KOTOR games with an online chat interface, or a too heavily instanced world like Guildwars.

[Peter McCoy]

I echo Yog's words.

The crafting side of things is a big deal for me. I find it such a shame that the best items in WoW are not player-created. It's like saying 'Sure you can make all this cool stuff that will take ages for you to grind up, but you're wasting your time since we've got a boss that drops something twice as good if you just go on a raid."

That's not a complaint, it's just something in WoW I find unfortunate. In SWG, people would go out of their way to find the best item for the best price offered by players. Armoursmiths and weaponsmiths were highly sought-after, and those that maintained a good reputation did extremely well. And they also gave work for other gathering professions - surveyors, scouts/rangers etc.

I'm sure Droo will remember the guy who was paying hella large for all that voritor meat. I suppose the easier way to analogise that little endeavour was to imagine more than one type of Fel Iron. You can use ANY type of Fel iron to make the Fel Iron armourset. If you go for the bog-standard fel iron ore, you'll get a mundane set of armour. But if you go out of your way to find the best, high-quality samples of Fel Iron, then the armour made from the bars smelted will be of an exceptionally better quality. It's still the Fel Armourset, but with improved stats, maybe special passive/useable abilities, a slightly different look perhaps!?

All of a sudden, the auction house would be used differently. People wouldn't just be going for the cheapest fel armour, they'd be more picky and look for the best since it actually matters who you buy from. Instead, people would be walking around wearing Hengists Fel Armour (my paladins name) because I'd have a reputation for only using the best raw materials. The focus would be more heavy on the playerbase.

I'm not saying do away with the raid loot, and I don't mean to shift this away from SWTOR, but I think the game (WoW and this new SW one) would both benefit greatly from a player-focused economy. I enjoy my paladin's blacksmithing, but I'd find it so much more rewarding if there was the facility to really pursue it as a craft and rise above all the other blacksmithers to make my crafted items desirable above the rest. The thing is that WoW is a combat-focused MMO, it's crafting is a side project, an addition - extra optional enhancements if you can be bothered.

And yes, player-owned abodes/buildings (cities preferably, like SWG) would be uber-fantastic! Again, it gives players a more game-based reason to interact with the community beyond the simply need for any old healer or tank.

[Morgan Evanar]

Yeah, instead of direct raid loot, it would be materials.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I actually like a story based game like that. It works very well in Lord of the Rings Online. I think they are trying to also aim more for the casual gamers. People like me don't have time to play like some of the grinders.

[Peter McCoy]

That's something I really like about Eve - there's no grind involved at all. Well, if anything I guess you could say there's a cash grind, but it's nothing serious when you think about it. To my knowledge there's no item in the game that a solo player can use that can't be acquired through the market. In WoW, the best stuff is bind-on-pickup, so you have to be in the raid, it can't be sold on the auction house. But in Eve, so long as you're willing to spend the time necessary to acquire the funds, you can buy what you want and fit exactly the kind of ship you want to fly.

And although in Eve the items statistics are all the same, be it a ship or a railgun, there is still the capacity for players inclined towards industry to get the upperhand on the market - the ability to research blueprints which can effectively lower the actual build time and materials needed - allowing you to charge lower prices for your goods.

I think Morgan might know a bit more than me about that though. I'm just basing it on what I've experienced so far.

[Tear]

http://kotaku.com/5108965/a-first-look-at-star-wars-the-old-republic-mmo

Lookin good. Im liking the animations and the look of the game is shaping up. Lightsabers are smaller now too.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Wow, some pretty big promises in that trailer. Deeper than any other game ever created by LucasArts and Bioware? The Ultimate Star Wars game? Every choice matters? I hope it lives up to the developers expectations!



(Is 'impactful' a word? :lol)

[Tear]

They're started a bi-weekly comic (http://www.swtor.com/media/webcomic)around the story of the game

[Silus Xilarian]

so im sitting on vent this morning, realizing that I haven't really been an asshole in awhile. One of my friends (who is a much bigger star wars geek than i am, amazingly enough) logs in. So i get all excited and stuff and im like "DUDE, DUDE, OLD REPUBLIC CLOSED ALPHA HURRY AND SIGN UP"

after about 30 mins of me trying to explain where the link to this so called "closed alpha" is, he realizes my trickery. Hes now cursing my very existence and telling me that we aren't friends and that im gonna rot in hell. Good times =D

[Kamvil Albrecht]

Please say you recorded it. Vent Harassment is jokes.

[Morgan Evanar]

so im sitting on vent this morning, realizing that I haven't really been an asshole in awhile. One of my friends (who is a much bigger star wars geek than i am, amazingly enough) logs in. So i get all excited and stuff and im like "DUDE, DUDE, OLD REPUBLIC CLOSED ALPHA HURRY AND SIGN UP"

after about 30 mins of me trying to explain where the link to this so called "closed alpha" is, he realizes my trickery. Hes now cursing my very existence and telling me that we aren't friends and that im gonna rot in hell. Good times =DYou fantastic douche. :lol

[Lykaios]

Wow, I might have to actually get into PC gaming<object width="580" height="330">


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[Droo]

That was awesome! :eek

[Karl Valten]

Arrrrggggghhhhhhhh. You beat me to posting this up. Damn that trailer is sexy.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Oh god why isn't this available yet :ohno

[Captain Untouchable]

OMG. I want sex with that trailer. :whip

How many of us are actually planning on playing this game? I remember back in Star Wars Galaxies that we sorta had an unofficial Fans Guild (or at least, one that a lot of us were members of). Are we planning to do the same sort of thing again?

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'd love to play this together, but I get the feeling there will be EU/US server divides again sadly... so we won't be all able to play together.

Either way, I definitely want to play!

[Karl Valten]

Oh that'd be epic. I'm game for a guild.

[Xavier Synik]

*must resist urge to buy new desktop specifically for gaming...*

[Captain Untouchable]

Hopefully they'll configure the servers like they did for SWG. There were a couple of "Europe" servers, but you weren't forced to use them, and you could log on to the standard US servers if you wanted.

Worked out pretty well, actually; most of the time I spent online was while the Yanks were either at work or asleep, so even the crowded areas were surprisingly lag-free.

God... I hope I can make my character into a Power Ranger again.




... uh... I mean... :uhoh

[Lykaios]

*must resist urge to buy new desktop specifically for gaming...*
You're not alone. I'm seriously considering, then again, after taking a deep look in my pocket I might not be able to do :lol

If I do get a better PC and there's a 'Fans guild going on, I'd definitely join. :D

[Xavier Synik]

My laptop is probably powerful enough to run it. But never been a fan of gaming on laptops.

Guess it'll all depend on when this comes out and what's going on in the life...

[Emelie Shadowstar]

*picks jaw back up off the floor and eyes her freshly dead laptop*

You know...I almost want it to stay dead just as an excuse to buy a new one now...

Oh E3...this year, you are making me realize how broke I will be in a few more months. :(

[Karl Valten]

Damn, I know. I'm already a broke college student, how the hell am I going to pay for this.

Lyk, buddy. I do not know you one bit, but should you get these games, I'm camping out at your place.

I shall have my fraternity compensate you in beer and Twins tickets.

[Xavier Synik]

That sounds like a decent deal actually... Though not sure if Lyk is a beer drinker or not... but if not you can send them to me and still camp at his place :p

[Emelie Shadowstar]

Lyk....not a beer drinker?
:p Xi hon, are you serious? I've seen the mini fridge!

*watches the trailer again*
I know it's just a cinematic, but it's just...so...epic.

[Xavier Synik]

What there's beer in there...

The wine's in it's own chiller.

[Nya Halcyon]

Bloody hell, I'm going to play that one!

[Figrin D'an]

There is still a lot of unknown detail about this game yet. It looks pretty. Then again, so did Age of Conan.

We'll see. I may try it. Supposedly, they are trying to make this the first MMO that is completely reliant on in-game voice communication (ie. no message text). I can predict already that, if that decision doesn't change by the time the game is released, they'll end up patching in text chat.

[Tear]

I got a really good preview by the boys at Kotaku (http://kotaku.com/5277689/star-wars-the-old-republic-preview-bam-here-it-is). Theres preview/reviews are usually pretty in tune to my feelings on games so I trust their opinions.

[Zai]

*watches the trailer again*
I know it's just a cinematic, but it's just...so...epic.

Epic - yah thats the word.

[Lykaios]

Lyk, buddy. I do not know you one bit, but should you get these games, I'm camping out at your place.
Even in January? :lol

I think you could either drive everyday or stay in the guestroom my friend.


I shall have my fraternity compensate you in beer and Twins tickets.
I believe a deal can be arranged :D


Lyk....not a beer drinker?
Hey! >: You're making me look like a full blown alcoholic here >:

Just mildly alcholic :p


Xi hon, are you serious? I've seen the mini fridge!
Seen it? You didn't only see it, you assaulted the poor mini-fridge and left it almost empty :p

[Peter McCoy]

I want a ranger class! Bounty Hunter looks cool in this and I'll definitely be creating one when it eventually gets released. I know this is a completely new game in a unique SW setting by a new studio, so holding onto ideas from SWG seem a bit pointless. I know Im going to love every single thing Bioware puts into this game, but still...

I want a ranger class! :p

[Tear]

Most gameplay (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/the-voice-star-wars/52927)I've seen so far.

[Karl Valten]

Holy shit. Y'know I wouldn't give a rats ass about graphics or mechanics if the voice-acting and plot immersion are anywhere near what they're bragging.

Heheh, its an MMO too so there are do save points or do-overs. At least I hope they would make that the case.

Damn, this might be an MMO I'd actually stay with for more than a month or two.

[Yog]

Feels like standard MMO stuff. The graphics are kinda bland too. The main draw seems to be that it's Star Wars, fully voiced and has the general production qualities of a Bioware game. Then again, that alone is a good thing in such a drab genre. It's an obvious story content MMO rather than a system based one, which again begs the question I asked earlier, what is the endgame going to be like? What happens when you run out of scripted scenes and story content?

[Tear]

Feels like standard MMO stuff. The graphics are kinda bland too. The main draw seems to be that it's Star Wars, fully voiced and has the general production qualities of a Bioware game. Then again, that alone is a good thing in such a drab genre. It's an obvious story content MMO rather than a system based one, which again begs the question I asked earlier, what is the endgame going to be like? What happens when you run out of scripted scenes and story content?

Good question to ask. Likely one we wont have answers for until release. Hopefully it doesn't turn out like the Conan MMO did. I never played it but from what I've read and who I'ved talk to the first steps in the game were great but the end game was non existent, even buggy.

I wouldn't worry about the graphics too much. The game is still pretty young and things will get tighened before release. Although one thing I did notice...

Anyone spot the mass effect flavor going on?

[Crusader]

Mmmh Mass Effect flavor...tastes good.

I am still not quite sure if I want to play or avoid this game. I love Bioware games but I hate the fact that MMOs end up being like work after a while and I already played a SW MMO that consumed too much of my time.

[Dasquian Belargic]

The gameplay looks pretty.. normal. I am definitely more excited about the story aspect rather than having the game look all revolutionary.

I wonder how many different voice types there will be for player characters...

[Captain Untouchable]

"...if you can do a Darth Maul thing, and a Welsh thing..."

I want that voice for my PC. :eee


In terms of the gameplay... yeah, it doesn't look "anything special", but it looks pretty straightforward, which is good. It may be standard fare for an MMO or a KOTOR game... but isn't that a good thing? It'd suck majorly if we were expecting KOTOR III, and it didn't follow on from the play style they'd already established. I'm liking the idea of having dialogue / conversation / cut scenes thrown in there, and being done in such a semi-cinematic way, like KOTOR does.

Pretty sure the characters in there were referred to as "Bounty Hunter", but were jumping around with lightsabers. I guess that means that everyone has the possibility to become a Jedi. Not sure how I feel about that, in an MMO context. Although I suppose, if its easy, straight-forward, and expected that you'll become a Jedi, you won't end up with the whole imbalance you got on SWG.

[Tear]

Pretty sure the characters in there were referred to as "Bounty Hunter", but were jumping around with lightsabers. I guess that means that everyone has the possibility to become a Jedi. Not sure how I feel about that, in an MMO context. Although I suppose, if its easy, straight-forward, and expected that you'll become a Jedi, you won't end up with the whole imbalance you got on SWG.

Ah you were deceived! That clip is largely from a playable mission that was at E3. You confront a captain about his failures to follow orders (This is on behalf of the Sith Empire, you probably already knew that though :lol). You then get the option to kill him or let him live.

Killing him leads to his second in command taking control of the ship, when its suddenly attacked by the republic. Her inexperience causes her to not target some boarding ships and the ship is boarded by republic soldiers. You then have to go fight off the soldiers which eventually leads to a battle with Jedi.

IF you let the captain live he destroys the boarding ships before they can dock with the Sith ship and you only have to fight off the Jedi.

The big burly dude in the armor with the husky voice is the bounty hunter. The skinnier guy next to him with the english accent is a Sith. Its two players teaming up to complete the same mission. Hence the cuts when he refers to him at bounty hunter and then there are other cuts where the Npc's are bowing saying "M'lord". Different perspectives frome each class but based on the same mission.

Bioware hasn't revealed yet how they intend to let both players make the mission choices they want to make while working together. e.g The sith player wants to kill the captain but the Bounty hunter wants to keep him alive. Who decides? And how do you keep it so both players are happy with the choices?

[Captain Untouchable]

Ahh, fair enough. So "Force User" is one of the as-yet unreleased player classes, presumably?

[Tear]

Most likely. It'll be interesting how they tackle that as well. Will it be two separate classes Jedi or Sith? Or will there be a single "force user", class and you have to pick what side you wish to fight on. Which would inevitabbly lead to two different class arch-types.

Both options have some good story oppertunities. Bioware is usually known for letting the player "choose" his path. But they could also have it where the story begins as either a young Jedi or Sith adept and your simply born into the role.

I think ill hedge my bet on Bioware making you choose your side first and having the two classes be seperate from the beginning. 5$! Takers?;)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I wouldn't be surprised if you start out in the same way as the other KOTOR games: picking a scout, soldier or scoundrel class, at least until you have gotten through a few basic scenarios/zones after which point you make some choice that commits you to either "Light" or "Dark". The main question for me then would be whether you can fall or redeem yourself if you want to switch sides? That seems like an integral part of Star Wars for me, but it seems to be a rare feature in MMORPGs, e.g. You can't change from being a Night-Elf Ranger to an Undead Warlock in WoW, though lore-wise such a thing might well be possible.

[Captain Untouchable]

Based on the website, there are space for four "blue" classes, and four "red" classes. Assuming that there's gonna be a good guy and a bad guy version of each class ("Soldier" for the Republic, "Bounty Hunter" for the Sith, par exemple), I'd be inclined to agree with you there Tear: you'd start out as a young Jedi or young Sith, and progress from there.

I'm wondering whether or not Jedi Guardian / Sentinel / Consular are going to be broken up in separate classes (with separate bonuses), or if you'll just have a "Combat Skills" and "Magic Skills" tree that you choose between, with the bonuses to your force power and what not incorporated within it. That would seem like the MMO way of doing it, anyhow. =/

[Dasquian Belargic]

I'm wondering whether or not Jedi Guardian / Sentinel / Consular are going to be broken up in separate classes (with separate bonuses), or if you'll just have a "Combat Skills" and "Magic Skills" tree that you choose between, with the bonuses to your force power and what not incorporated within it. That would seem like the MMO way of doing it, anyhow. =/

Like the talent point trees in WoW? Hmmm.. that would be a logical way of doing it I guess. Invest all of your points into the Guardian tree? Become a Blademaster. Push them all into the Consular tree? Become a Sage-master, and so on.

[Tear]

I'm wondering whether or not Jedi Guardian / Sentinel / Consular are going to be broken up in separate classes (with separate bonuses), or if you'll just have a "Combat Skills" and "Magic Skills" tree that you choose between, with the bonuses to your force power and what not incorporated within it. That would seem like the MMO way of doing it, anyhow. =/
Like the talent point trees in WoW? Hmmm.. that would be a logical way of doing it I guess. Invest all of your points into the Guardian tree? Become a Blademaster. Push them all into the Consular tree? Become a Sage-master, and so on.

I hope they do! It really worked in WoW. Two people of the same class might look similar but have totally different playstyles or skills. It was an entirely consuming part of the game as well. Giving people the chance to play with talent points and theory craft, all depending on what they wanted to accomplish.

I like that aspect a lot. Hopefully they borrow from it.

[Captain Untouchable]

Having not played WOW, I was thinking more of the Skill Trees in SWG, but yeah. ;)

The alternative would be having a "Lightsaber", "Combat Skills" and "Force Skills" type trees, with enough skill points to max out two of them, or something. Maxing Lightsaber and Combat gets you a Guardian; the more you mix and match, the alternatives you get.

I'd personally like to see either WOW style or "Prestige Class" type stuff, though: wouldn't feel like KOTOR if it didn't say "Jedi Consular" on your character sheet. ;)

[Tear]

Heres a nice 20 minute Dev walkthrough (http://kotaku.com/5343638/the-old-republic-20-minute-developer-walkthrough)with some of the various classes

[John Glayde]

That's a pretty darn awesome walkthrough.

And now I want to be a Bounty Hunter and a Force-User as well as a Trooper and a Smuggler. Gods damn you, Bioware. >_<

[Dasquian Belargic]

11.06.2009 - Senior Writer Drew Karpyshyn offers his thoughts on writing the Jedi Knight class storyline.: http://www.swtor.com/news/blog/20091106_001

:eee

[Dasquian Belargic]

The latest character class is revealed: Imperial Agent!

"Outfitted in the smartest, sleekest, high-tech gear, the Imperial Agent always has the right tools at the right time. Using their abilities of subversion and subterfuge, these covert operatives infiltrate and assassinate enemies of the Empire with deadly efficiency."

http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20091113_001

..all you Inquisitor goons should be happy :mneh

[Tear]

Oooo they have a move called orbital bombardment. Sounds shiny.

[Droo]

I had a strong feeling this would be a class. Nice, stealthy class. There are a lot of rumours flying around that the last two classes are the Jedi Consular and the Sith Inquisitor.

[Tear]

There are a lot of rumours flying around that the last two classes are the Jedi Consular and the Sith Inquisitor.

Right on the money. The two classes just got confirmed. They seem like multi purpose/hybrid classes.

[Karl Valten]

Inquisitor for the win!

[Captain Untouchable]

Why are there so many awesome classes? It's not like there's a clear-cut good/bad version of each, either: there's a degree of uniqueness to all of them, and I want to try them all out. I hope they pull a SWG, and throw up a testing server where - among other things - you can stat out your character and try out different classes/abilities. Otherwise, I have a feeling that my free time is going to evaporate when this game is released... >_<

[Tell Cho]

Inquisitor for the win!

Hells yes!

[Lady Vader]

So Steam was having a sale for all four games for SWG... for $10. I figured, what the hell. So I purchased it and started playing, as one of my friends plays and is a multi-billionaire. I got 5 mil right off the bat when I logged in.

But, as I started to play, I started to remember why I'd stopped. Honestly, I simply started it up again to play the Beast Master spec. But, I have a feeling after about a month, if that, I'll stop again.

The only MMO that has kept my attention thus far is WoW.

However, I really am very curious about SW:TOR. I'll def try it out when it's released.

[Yog]

^^ No kidding, I don't think I'd even play $1 to play SWG again. There are plenty of emulated servers with the original SWG code before they broke it with "combat upgrade" and NGE.

The sci MMO to go for now (aside from EVE Online), is Star Trek Online. Playing it in the beta, and quite enjoying it.

[Tear]

Its going to be a long year. Doh (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=109426).

[Captain Untouchable]

Spring 2011? :(

[Dasquian Belargic]

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/timeline/onslaught-sith-empire

:ohno

[Yog]

Those videos are all sorts of awesome, and impress me far more than a CGI trailer ever could, because it shows how conscious Bioware is about the story.

[Drin Kizael]

I have so many mixed feelings about this game, but there's not nearly enough information out about the game yet, so I try to be optimistic.

Yes it's Bioware... so in theory it should have great atmosphere if nothing else. But out of the eight classes, a full half of them are Force users... and only two factions? No criminal syndicates or an independent sectors like Hapes or something? I would have liked to see a little more diversity since it's allegedly an MMO.

Honestly, from the sound of it I'd almost rather they just make another stand-alone game because NPCs that their creative team turns out are infinitely more interesting than most of the gamers that flood the servers are going to be.

[Crusader]

So Yogs what do you think? Will we give it a try and start a Galactic Response Unit once the beta starts.
It is Bioware and it is SW so I will not be able to resist checking out.
So this is pretty early to ask but who would care playing this game together once it will be released?

[Karl Valten]

Count me in.

[Atreyu]

That video was awesome. :)

Re: Force users - I think it comes down to simply Bioware exercising some player management before the game is released. Let's face it - 90%+ of the player base is going to roll a Jedi or Sith character, so Bioware is attempting to counter this by having multiple Force users to spread the population out a bit.

(though admittedly I'm interested in some of the other classes, notably bounty hunter and trooper)

I'm interested in getting this when it's released but I'll probably enforce my personal MMO rule ("Don't buy MMO until at least a month or so after release") just to see how the game turns out after the initial excitement has subsided.

[Captain Untouchable]

GRU... was that the guild from SWG? Been trying to remember what it was called for aaaages, but can't for the life of me remember.

I hope TOR has an equivalent of comp armour, so I can do my Power Ranger again. :lol

[Crusader]

You played SWG with us? What was your character's name? I was Oktavion

[Karl Valten]

I am totally going to be rolling up a Sith Inquisitor, :cool:

[Captain Untouchable]

Amusingly, I don't remember. Lol. My memory is a bit vague from back then. I'm pretty sure my first name began with an I, and I had a big, bright red hair thing going on.

One of the few things I remember is being shown to the guild hall on my first day of the free trial, and asking the person who I was with "Huh, why is everyone dressed as Power Rangers?", referring of course to the fact that everyone seemed to be wearing that damn composite armour stuff. I wound up with the guy's old set off the back of that, and ended up throwing together a macro string "morphing sequence". :lol

Ahhh... the weirdness of youth. >_<

[Crusader]

Ah ok so you only played the trial. I already felt guilty not remembering you but I can barely remember all those strange names of our regular guild members. Did you try this game out when we lived on Naboo or had we already moved to a desert planet?

[Captain Untouchable]

No no - I played for like... a year and a half? I just started out in one of the free trials. :mneh

We were already out on Lok when I joined, ircc.

[Rossos Atrapes]

I am totally going to be rolling up a Sith Inquisitor, :cool:

Whenever I get the money for this, I'll be doing the exact same thing. I must. It's like I'm obligated to play an Inquisitor.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm properly torn between classes. I'm gonna wait until I have a better idea of how the game is going to work in terms of the available storylines, how many characters/accounts you can have, how they break down by server, etc.

Sith Warrior and Sith Inquisitor look far more appealing than the Jedi characters, in terms of the visuals and abilities we know about. If there's enough of a difference between the storylines, I may have one of each. If not, then odds are I'll have a Jedi Knight and a Sith Inquisitor... or the opposite paring, if I can.

I'm also attracted to both a Trooper and a Bounty Hunter - the former mainly for the sexiness of the armour, to be truthful; the latter for that rocket pack / Jango pistol combo move that it apparently has. If I can do both, and if there's enough story variety, then I probably will. If not... then I'll have to ponder very hard.

I'm not gonna have very much free time with this game, I fear. :lol

[Karl Valten]

I am totally going to be rolling up a Sith Inquisitor, :cool:

Whenever I get the money for this, I'll be doing the exact same thing. I must. It's like I'm obligated to play an Inquisitor.

I wonder if that says anything about us.

[Rossos Atrapes]

I wonder if that says anything about us.

Y'know, it just might, though I'd be more worried about what it says than if it says anything.

[Reinhart Thul]

Rolling a Sith Warrior so hard.

Goin back to my roots, from when I first started Vega :cool

[Rossos Atrapes]

Has anyone else noticed that in the trailer, when that Bounty Hunter chick gets started on her part of the 'mission' or whatever, the music that starts up sounds eerily like the music from Jurassic Park?

Just a random thought.

[Yog]

So Yogs what do you think? Will we give it a try and start a Galactic Response Unit once the beta starts.
It is Bioware and it is SW so I will not be able to resist checking out.
So this is pretty early to ask but who would care playing this game together once it will be released?
The problem is, we would probably be a very small guild. I don't want to log into an MMO and see only 1 other person online in guildchat, or being deprived of the activities and resources only a larger guild could provide. I definitely think we should be on the same server though, and I'll definitely check the game out.

So far, there is no word about the guild mechanics for this game, so it's way too early to say how it would affect things. Hell, we hardly know anything about the MMO aspects at all. Basic stuff like crafting, the economy, pvp, the end game and so on. BioWare has been so busy trying to tell us about the immersion of the game, you might as well wonder why they are making it a MMO and not a single player game (except for the obvious, making money through subscription fee).




Amusingly, I don't remember. Lol. My memory is a bit vague from back then. I'm pretty sure my first name began with an I, and I had a big, bright red hair thing going on.

One of the few things I remember is being shown to the guild hall on my first day of the free trial, and asking the person who I was with "Huh, why is everyone dressed as Power Rangers?", referring of course to the fact that everyone seemed to be wearing that damn composite armour stuff. I wound up with the guy's old set off the back of that, and ended up throwing together a macro string "morphing sequence". :lol

Ahhh... the weirdness of youth. >_<

Yeah, that story rings a bell. I remember you. I was playing as Ryland Larr, Teras Kasi / Rifleman. :)

[Crusader]

So far, there is no word about the guild mechanics for this game, so it's way too early to say how it would affect things. Hell, we hardly know anything about the MMO aspects at all. Basic stuff like crafting, the economy, pvp, the end game and so on. BioWare has been so busy trying to tell us about the immersion of the game, you might as well wonder why they are making it a MMO and not a single player game (except for the obvious, making money through subscription fee).


You are completly right on this one. The Techdemos make you suspect that this is more a massively coop online role playing game instead of a classic MMORPG.

I suspect that this game will have a much larger focus on PVE than PVP and the recent release of Mass Effect 2 makes you wonder if they are going to focus on "Gearscore" at all since they seem to dumb it down in their other products (that is a good thing in my opinion). I think this game will be more like LOTRO when it comes to PVP. I guess declared PVP zones instead of a free for all world is the only way that they can keep their game as immersive as they want it to be.

I suspect that Sith and Republic players will spent most of the time being divided from each other. I don't think that they gameplay will focus on big guilds either since this would lead to completly silly raid content:
Imagine each player of a 16 people group plus his or her NPC companion that is supposed to reflect his decisions and playstyle enter a "dungeon" to evolve in their personal story. I think Bioware is way too smart to try something stupid like this.

I guess the average party size is going to be around six or seven people. Maybe such parties have to work together in larger groups to fight their way to the entrance of a dungeon but then have to seperate in order to face their own fate.

[Xavier Synik]

heard today that it's supposed to be released Spring 2011... So everyone has 12 months to wait/save money for new gaming PCs.

[Atreyu]

heard today that it's supposed to be released Spring 2011.

Back in January ...


Spring 2011? :(

:lol :D :)

But yes, time to start saving. :)

[Xavier Synik]

Sorry that should have been "confirmed" for Spring 2001.

[Captain Untouchable]

Sorry that should have been "confirmed" for Spring 2001.

Confirmed for spring two-thousand and one? :ohno

Wow. Didn't realise Doctor Who worked on their marketing team. :mneh

[Xavier Synik]

yes it is a time traveling video game...

[Lichborne]

Darth Hater Episode 26 - Live Q&A (http://darthhater.com/2010/03/19/darth-hater-episode-26-live-qa/)

MER Episode 15 – Gee Dee Cee You At PAX East! (http://moseisleyradio.com)

[Dasquian Belargic]

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sarlacc-enforcer

:lol

[Travis North]

http://www.swtor.com/info/holonet/classes/sarlacc-enforcer

:lol

I laughed when I saw this, the vids are hilarious.
<input id="gwProxy" type="hidden"><!--Session data--><input onclick="jsCall();" id="jsProxy" type="hidden">

[Karl Valten]

I like the pictures of the thing tricked out in armor and the weapons strapped to the tentacles. :p

[Droo]

Orgasmic new trailer:

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If the link breaks, I'll try to find a working one.

[Karl Valten]

Woah, epic. Truly epic.

Only problem I see is that the Republic won. :p

[Crusader]

Damn this has been already leaked to YouTube... I thought it would premiere at the EA press conference in 40 minutes.

[Droo]

<object width="580" height="330"><param name="movie" value="http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/themes/swtor/en/assets/mediaPlayerInterior.swf" /><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true" /><param name="flashvars" value="title=undefined&description=undefined&source=http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer.flv&fullscreen_source=/&comment_url=/media/trailers/hope-cinematic-trailer#comments&download_1=header|Windows Media Video (.wmv),thumb|null,filesize|253M,resolution|1280x72 0,url|http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer_wmv.zip&download_2=header|Quicktime (.mov),thumb|null,filesize|301M,resolution|1280x72 0,url|http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer_mov.zip&lang=EN&age_gate=0" /><embed src="http://cdn-www.swtor.com/sites/all/themes/swtor/en/assets/mediaPlayerInterior.swf" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="580" height="330"flashvars="title=undefined&description=undefined&source=http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer.flv&fullscreen_source=/&comment_url=/media/trailers/hope-cinematic-trailer#comments&download_1=header|Windows Media Video (.wmv),thumb|null,filesize|253M,resolution|1280x72 0,url|http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer_wmv.zip&download_2=header|Quicktime (.mov),thumb|null,filesize|301M,resolution|1280x72 0,url|http://cdn-www.swtor.com//sites/all/files/en/vc/E32010/hpcg0615/hope_cinematic_trailer_mov.zip&lang=EN&age_gate=0" /></object>

"You... want this... don't you?" >D

[Yog]

The BSG Online (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxMYDUgcBFE) trailer looks sweet too. As someone else said to me, I both love and hate cgi trailers, because the game never lives up to them. The worst thing about them, they draw large amount of resources, which means less spent on the actual game development. I could care less about flashy cgi instead of showing gameplay and game mechanics.

[Tear]

Anyone know the excuse around why that hoochie Jedi could stop a lightsaber with her hand?o_O

[Dasquian Belargic]

I bloody love Star Wars!!!

Did that woman Jedi just do a Hadouken? :lol

[Yog]

Protip: When you quote autoplay video's, the same video plays twice but out of sync. :)

[Droo]

Anyone know the excuse around why that hoochie Jedi could stop a lightsaber with her hand?o_O

Telekinesis, I imagine.

[Crusader]

If a lightsabre is able to deflect a force lightning and if a Master Jedi is able to absorb one entirely maybe a Jedi is able to block a LS attack with his mind as well.

In the original Jedi Knight there was a force power that allowed you to do this as well:

Force Protection

Force power "protection" is the most complained about light force power by those that don't have it. The force power protects you from weapon damage and from most force powers. The only exceptions are force powers "throw", "pull", and "blinding". The force power drains all your mana and lasts for about 30 secs to a minute. To get force power "protection" you must select only light force powers for a multiplayer game, or remain true to your path in the single player game. To remain true, you must assign all force stars to light and neutral force powers only. The best way to beat someone using force power "protection" is to strip them of all their weapons and keep them from getting to a mana powerup. When the protection runs out, strike at them with your most powerful force powers or weapons.

[Peter McCoy]

Excuse or not, I thought it was fuckin' awesome! As with the White Wolf RPG rules - when the rules get in the way of the fun, ignore them and use your own.

[Tear]

They announced a couple playable races: Twilek and the Chiss. Chiss apparently being allied with the Empire.

[Karl Valten]

Dibs on Chiss Sith Inquisitor!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

This game looks awesome.

If I have the money when its out I soooo want to play with all you guys. :ohno

[Figrin D'an]

The trailer was well done, but I agree with Yog... show me how the game actually plays. I can quickly run out of fingers and toes counting MMOs in the last 10 years that have looked fantastic in marketing yet were mediocre to terrible in mechanics.

[Tear]

The trailer was well done, but I agree with Yog... show me how the game actually plays. I can quickly run out of fingers and toes counting MMOs in the last 10 years that have looked fantastic in marketing yet were mediocre to terrible in mechanics.

Actually Bioware's been releasing a fair bit of gameplay footage this E3 along with the cinematic. Lots of people even getting hands on play time which is more then most games give before they reach beta. You've just gotta dig around on the net some to find it. I know G4 or 3? That game show has a good 15-20min interview with some decent footage. From quests to an actual group encounter.

Things look very loose still, but hey, at least they're showing stuff.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Yeah I saw a bunch of gameplay footage on G4 from E3 when I was flipping channels the other day. It looks decent. :)

[Crusader]

I just hope the combat gameplay is more like Dragon Age or Mass Effect instead of being like the first KOTOR or Jade Empire.

But in the end it will be more like WOW as always... :(

[Drin Kizael]

AAAAAAHHHHH!!!!!

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Okay that's it. I'm sold. I must buy this game.

I had been chomping at the bit for so long when I was in SW Galaxies for ships. After getting master ranks in Ranger, this became literally all I wanted. Then when it turned out to be a stupid terminal and a PVP X-Wing sim game, I quit.

This has me drooling.

BTW those other videos auto-starting on this page are highly obnoxious.

[Tear]

BTW those other videos auto-starting on this page are highly obnoxious.

Flashblock Add-on for your browser is your friend.

[Drin Kizael]

BTW those other videos auto-starting on this page are highly obnoxious.

Flashblock Add-on for your browser is your friend.

Why would I want to block All Flash objects when the problem is isolated to a couple of obnoxiously coded videos. 99% of them don't auto-play. :p

[Tear]

BTW those other videos auto-starting on this page are highly obnoxious.

Flashblock Add-on for your browser is your friend.

Why would I want to block All Flash objects when the problem is isolated to a couple of obnoxiously coded videos. 99% of them don't auto-play. :p

Well beyond the obnoxious auto playing flash videos. It also blocks those auto playing flash ads. Ads of all sorts. If you want to play the flash object you simply click it. Not to mention flash can be a security risk.

Improved browsing(I know I personally noticed a huge difference). Less slow down from loading a ton of crap on some sites that are really just unnecessary ads. That's just one reason why you might want flash block.

In other news. Here is the link (http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100618_002)to most of the stuff released at E3. Including the G4 gameplay stuff. They also released a new timeline video featuring some tid bits on Revan.

[Captain Untouchable]

Oh, my. Those ships look darn sexy.

If I'm reading the new article right, it looks like your choice of class is going to affect your options for race, or visa versa: it sounds like you can only be an Agent if you're Chiss, or a Smuggler if you're Twi'leki. I quite like that. I wonder if there will be advantages and disadvantages to being Human or non-Human; kinda like the racial traits in Dungeons and Dragons, where being an Elf makes you immune to certain things, better at certain things, etc... but you lose some of the everyman versatility of the Human.

Of course, it does add an extra teir of decision-making when it comes to deciding what character(s) to have, and that's going to be difficult enough as-is. >_<

The armour certainly looks cool, but I wonder how much overlap and upgradability there will be in terms of stats. I have to admit that in playing KOTOR, I often ignored some of the better armour types because of the asthetics: I found an outfit that worked for my toon, and stuck with it. Hopefully there will be all of the meshes and overlays from the console games; but also advantages to picking the lighter, helmetless outfits, so that everyone won't just be wandering around in that (admittedly sexy) Corinthian-esque helmet thing from the end. Or dressed as Mandalorians thinking they look cool.

Also, is it just me, or does anyone else hope they let the animators from those cinematic trailers put together some episodes or a movie or something? Hot damn!

[Droo]

I know the language they use is misleading but I don't believe for a second your choice of race will be dictated by your choice of class. It's far too limiting and racial bonuses would have no bearing on anything because of this race-class pigeon-holing. There may be faction specific races, I imagine.

[Captain Untouchable]

I don't see how racial benefits would have "no bearing".

Take Bothans, for example: everyone knows they're "spy" type characters, because of their racial personality. I see no problem with restricting them to one of the spy-type classes, and giving them a racial bonus with hacking and code-slicing, but perhaps a penalty when it comes to negotiating because of their disagreeable attitude. That gives the racial benefits an extreme amount of bearing: it encourages players to pick a race that is "appropriate" for the style of play they want to go with.

As I see it, what your suggesting is that every single Sith character should have the option to be a Chiss. If that's the case, then we'll wind up with an alarming number of Sith Warrior Chiss, all with witty variations on the name "Thrawn", which makes no sense for an extremely isolationist and reclusive species.

I'm sure there will be pleanty of across-the-board races that can select any class. But I see no harm in including a couple of extra, "special" ones that effectively have the class selection made for you. It adds to the realism, and given how much emphasis Bioware puts on the story, I wouldn't be surprised (or unhappy) if that was the case.

[Droo]

It has no bearing because there would be next to no choice of race for the class you've decided to play. What is the point of saying only Race A and Race B can go Class A as their racial bonuses are best suited to it? Why not just make the bonuses inherant to the class itself instead of enforcing limits on character customisation?

As for what makes sense in Star Wars games, in particular MMOs, it's something of a sore topic for me because if I could have my way there'd be no Jedi/Sith player characters at all. If a Sith Warrior isn't some sort of super class, then it's not a Sith Warrior, and of course it won't be a super class as that would be ridiculous and, here's that dirty word, imbalanced. So believe me, I appreciate good sense to a story, but at the cost of variety and choice? Let's put it another way, other than humans, which are the classic generic race suited to any class, what other Star Wars race can realistically be any other class without breaking from its racial stereotype in some way? I don't think enforcing these kinds of restrictions is the way to go.

[Tear]

It has no bearing because there would be next to no choice of race for the class you've decided to play. What is the point of saying only Race A and Race B can go Class A as their racial bonuses are best suited to it? Why not just make the bonuses inherant to the class itself instead of enforcing limits on character customisation?

As for what makes sense in Star Wars games, in particular MMOs, it's something of a sore topic for me because if I could have my way there'd be no Jedi/Sith player characters at all. If a Sith Warrior isn't some sort of super class, then it's not a Sith Warrior, and of course it won't be a super class as that would be ridiculous and, here's that dirty word, imbalanced. So believe me, I appreciate good sense to a story, but at the cost of variety and choice? Let's put it another way, other than humans, which are the classic generic race suited to any class, what other Star Wars race can realistically be any other class without breaking from its racial stereotype in some way? I don't think enforcing these kinds of restrictions is the way to go.

It's hard to say what is and what will be this early in an MMO. I know WoW started with Races limited to certain classes but down the line I think Blizzard is opening it up so almost any race can be any class now.(I could be wrong but I think thats the direction its beginning to leaning. What with Tauren Paladins and such). I think Bioware will take up that queue of what's been learned and if there is any limiting it'll be races to certain factions. IE. Chiss are an Imperial class only.

As for the explanation of Sith Warriors being so numerous but not being a super class. The developers have explained it in such a way that makes sense in both a realistic fashion and a fantasy fashion. With so many force users the power of each has been 'diluted'. So its not such a concentration of dark energy that made Vader or Palpatine so powerful. If you could imagine the force as a resource.

The other explanation that was made in a more realistic fashion was that the larger your forces numbers the less elite they become. Ie: U.S army vs U.S special forces. In this time period the Sith are numerous, maybe their training is being delegated more like an army and less intimate when their numbers are few. Less time to train, less time to learn, as the war grinding on raises the need for fresh Sith.

On the flip side when your playing a Smuggler, trooper, or bounty hunter the developers have said your playing as one of the best smugglers, troopers or bounty hunters in the galaxy.

[Drin Kizael]

I can see where of course certain races will be more inclined to certain classes based on racial benefits. That's a universal truth of RPGs computer or tabletop. But to go so far as to restrict races from broad classes is kinda nuts. I'm thinking you must have read too much into that. Bioware is smarter than that.

Edit: BTW got Flashblock and Stop Autoplay (both just in case) on Firefox. Thanks for the tip.

[Captain Untouchable]

It all depends on how many playable races there are though, Droo. If the only universal class is human, and the only way of playing an alien is to be a specific class, then sure. That's too limited. But if there are a few universal races (per faction, in general, or whatever), and then they have a handful of "Oh, hey: you picked Imperial Agent. You can be a Chiss now, if you want," I see no problem with that. Obviously you do.

Maybe I'm just hoping they'll go to lengths to avoid Star Wars Galaxies syndrome, where everyone looks and dresses more or less the same, and every fifth character is a poorly executed rip off of someone from the franchise.


On the flip side when your playing a Smuggler, trooper, or bounty hunter the developers have said your playing as one of the best smugglers, troopers or bounty hunters in the galaxy.

That pretty much sums up everything I was going to say, but in far fewer paragraphs. Just think of how many Jedi died during the Clone Wars, and who was responsible: it wasn't always the half dozen or so "Sith" at the Separatists' disposal... there were bounty hunters, Mandalorians, or just plain superior numbers that did it in the past.

Despite their awesome powers, even Jedi recieve a severe penalty to their defense bonus while flanked.

Edit:

You asked for some suggestions of races that could be anything, without stereotypes, Droo -

The Zabrak (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Zabrak) / Iridonians were a playable race in Star Wars Galaxies; they also appeared in KOTOR2 as one of the members of your party (the tech dude with the weird arm), and in the franchise itself in the form of Darth Maul, and a couple of Jedi Masters. That covers a pretty broad range.

The Duros (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Duros) are from the same breeding stock as the Nemoidians. Way back when they were one of the first species to develop hyperdrives, but through various incarnations have shown up as engineers, fighter pilots, bounty hunters, smugglers, and all sorts.

A couple of Jedi, and the leader of the Smuggler's Alliance from the history doodads (Hylo Visz) were Mirialan (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Mirialan), so I guess that could probably have a fairly broad scope for a bit of yellow-skinned, face-tattoo'd action, though the race is fairly "spiritual".

Sullustans (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sullustan) are known for their ship-building skills, and navigation skills, but that doesn't necessarily exclude them from other classes: Smugglers would work, sure, but given the number that wound up in military roles in the alliance, I don't think they'd be out of place necessarily in the Republic or Sith armies. Admittedly though, they might struggle wearing the helmets.

If you start ignoring whether or not people could wear hats, and just think of the races that showed up in the Senate chamber in the prequel trilogy (and which are available as avatars on the forums), off the top of my head you can probably add Gran (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Gran), Devaronians (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Devaronian), and Aqualish (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Aqualish). One or other of the Nikto (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Nikto) races produced Jedi, as well as people who were on a Republic world in one of the KOTOR games. Whatever the heck Shaak Ti is (Edit: a Togruta (http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Togruta), apparently) has shown up in the TOR comics, and the avatars on the websites.

Mandalorians have no visual difference from stock Humans, but choosing to play one might perhaps offer a strength bonus; whereas playing an Alderaanian might give you more intelligence; an Echani might be better at unarmed combat, and so forth. So, variety could be offered even amongst Humans.

They're certainly more qualified to be an assortment of classes than the Chiss. And there are other races - like Rodians and Trandoshans, for example - who are more suited to bounty hunter and smuggler roles on either side, but probably wouldn't wind up in the Republic military.

[Drin Kizael]

Maybe I'm just hoping they'll go to lengths to avoid Star Wars Galaxies syndrome, where everyone looks and dresses more or less the same, and every fifth character is a poorly executed rip off of someone from the franchise.


I did not experience this in SWG. Sure there were enough ripoffs that you could not help but notice them, but they were in the minority from my perspective. There was plenty of variety among all of the players in any given city I was in.

I'm kind of nervous about companion characters in that regard, though. Are they going to be just as customizable as your "main" character? I hope so, otherwise the number of clones on the street will get kind of silly.

[Crusader]

^^Hey my evil doctor/combat medic even had a mood in order to make him look different.

But you are right, when it comes to armor pre CU. Everyone was wearing this composite armor and only the colors you chose for it made you stand out.

[Captain Untouchable]

Yeah, like Crusader says: composite armour made everyone look near identical. It wasn't even the combat upgrade that fixed it, particularly after they shoved those lag times between each individual piece of armour loading; before that, at least you could leave it unequipped until you needed it.

My first experience of SWG was turning up at the starport on Lok, on my way to the Fans guild headquarters, and being surrounded by a bunch of guys dressed as Power Rangers. It was most confusing. :lol

Obviously I'm exaggerating with "one in five", but I certainly encountered it a lot on one or two of the servers I played on, particularly when JTL came out, and everyone set up "hilarious" alternate characters to play as pilots for the other factions, like "Jeff Porkins", "Lucas Starkiller", and "Wedge Anne Chillies"... or YT-1300s called the "Century Eagle" or "Eon Hawk" (though admittedly, the latter isn't that bad), X-Wings called "Bread Five"... you get the idea. Funny for the first couple of times. Kinda annoying in PvP after a while.

My concern is that, given the opportunity, a lot of the sorts of people who will play a Star Wars MMO will choose to take it too far. For the most part, I don't really care what other people playing the game do with their time or their characters, even if they were all blue, and dressed in white. It'd just be nice if we didn't have to ignore all of that stuff (because it wasn't there), y'know?


And yeah, like you say, Drin: I hope we get customisation with regards to our companion dudes as well. I'm sure we'll at least be able to equip them, so worst case scenario mine will constantly be wearing a hat / helmet / equivalent, if we can't customise 'em.


On an unrelated note: regarding those smexy-awesome ships, I'm guessing they'll operate like the ship from the console games - the name of which has fallen out of my brain; how embarassing! - in that you'll wander in, wander around, and then select where you want to go from the map thingy (why change the mechanic from the consoles, when it translates so well to MMO, right?). I haven't been keeping all that up-to-date with the site, though: has there been any information on whether or not we'll have one each, if we'll be allowed to bring "guests" onboard, who will be aboard (a stock selection of Republic / Sith Officer NPCs?), pick a name, etc?

Edit:

Actually, that "Eon Hawk" name is really starting to grow on me. Damn it.

[Yog]

About flash blocking:
http://www.sw-fans.net/forum/showpost.php?p=339456&postcount=39

I also think it should be a rule not to post autoplaying videos.

Now about the E3 coverage, I liked what I saw. Especially the ships, which I guess will be like player housing, where you can show off your bling and hang out with your friends. I was also impressed by the comment in an interview about the quests being completely unique for every class. "Not a single repeated content, not a single repeated quest". That is one hell of bar they set right there, especially with so much of the content being cut scenes and 100% spoken dialogue.

That being said, my previous point still stands. I still do not see what you're supposed to do once you hit max level except for re-roll a class. What is the purpose of Battleground PvP. What is the character progression once you hit level cap? How item centric is the game, and what can they tell us about itemization? What can they tell us about crafting / economy. What kind of guild features will there be, and so on.

The game is supposed to launch some time next spring, and we still know almost nothing about core end game mechanics. It's like they have not really planned for it at all. That is a rather ominous sign, in my experience. I'm sure it will set a record for box sales on launch day, and will receive a ridiculous amount of hype, and great 0 day reviews, much like Age of Conan. But it remains to be seen if they can keep customer retention.

[Captain Untouchable]

Looking at the available classes, and thinking of the KOTOR game mechanics: is there even space for crafting? In the console games you pretty much either buy stuff from vendors, or talk to the allies standing around on your ship until they give you stuff.

They might be assuming though that, since most of us are familiar with KOTOR, they don't need to explain much about "the game mechanic", except for the ways that it's different? :huh

And it may be a bit of a dumb question... but once you hit the level cap, isn't that pretty much it for every single game out there? Aside from adding in new story content for you to play through, what else is there to do in any game, aside from either start over or feel smug? Maybe that's why they've gone to so much effort to set the bar high and have no repeat quests (so that there are eight level caps worth of content and story, in effect)?

[Drin Kizael]

... has there been any information on whether or not we'll have one each, if we'll be allowed to bring "guests" onboard, who will be aboard (a stock selection of Republic / Sith Officer NPCs?), pick a name, etc?


All I know so far is that ships sound like they are designed to be bases of operation for groups, like Supergroup bases in CoH, so that implies bringing other people on board by invite.

I presume that the more members in your group you have, the bigger the ship and the cooler the stuff you can add to it. I found some pictures of some pretty cool customized ships, but I lost the link. How much of that was "crafted" and how much was just done with the default ship building tools, I have no idea.

I also hope that if ships are basically houses ala SWG, then you can at least have a basic ship for yourself with a small group of friends.

Edit: Flashblock makes for some incredibly BORING web browsing since just about every place with any sense of marketing has Flash on it. I don't want to have click all over to see what the page is supposed to look like. Honestly, 90% of it is quite tame. It's good to have for some of the more annoying sites, but I ended up disabling it.

And it turns out that Stop-Autoplay does not work on everything. >_<

[Yog]

Looking at the available classes, and thinking of the KOTOR game mechanics: is there even space for crafting? In the console games you pretty much either buy stuff from vendors, or talk to the allies standing around on your ship until they give you stuff.
Well, that is a problem right there. It's hard to think of successful MMO's that does not have either a decent crafting system or a deep economy. World of Warcraft gets away with it because it's so hilariously item centric, 80% of your stats come from gear. The gear upgrades never end. Guild Wars get away with it, because it has no subscription fee.


Aside from adding in new story content for you to play through, what else is there to do in any game, aside from either start over or feel smug?
The defining character of successful MMO's such as WoW and EVE online is, the game never stops. In EVE, you can't even hit the skill cap (unless you played for 21 years). In WoW, the game actually starts at level cap, because then it's to time to start the endless spiral of gear upgrades. In other MMO's, you can craft and gather resources, then you play the market until you get insanely rich. Then there are MMO's with high risk / reward non instanced guild PvP. It's also possible to add secondary layers of character progression once you hit the level cap.

MMO's are a very different beast than single player games because of the monthly fee, so you need to keep the players occupied with achievements that goes far beyond the level cap. Otherwise, you will just have players cancelling subscriptions after the first or second month. The regular console game might take 15+ hours to complete, while a BioWare game such as KOTOR could take 30 hours if you rush it, 40 hours if you do all the side quests. MMOS on the other hand, typically have hundreds of hours of gameplay. And that is before you start accounting for the endgame mechanics.

Here is a quote straight from the devs:

Gallo said that BioWare and LucasArts were aiming for a gameplay time of around sixty hours: "Baldur's Gate was 100 hours of gameplay or more. Baldur's Gate 2 was 200 hours, and the critical-path play through Baldur's Gate 2 was 75 hours... We're talking smaller than that [for Knights of the Old Republic], dramatically, but even if it's 60 percent smaller, then it's still 100 hours. So our goal for gameplay time is 60 hours. We have so many areas that we're building--worlds, spaceships, things like that to explore--so we have a ton of gameplay."[7]
So bottom line is, they are known for making long lasting RPG games. But now that they are making a MMO, with more quest content than several KOTOR games put together, they decide to spread the content out over 8 classes, make the average run 60 hours, and not even a mention of endgame mechanics few months before release? (What in the name of womprats are they thinking?)



Maybe that's why they've gone to so much effort to set the bar high and have no repeat quests (so that there are eight level caps worth of content and story, in effect)?
They can't possibly expect us to roll 8 characters though. Assuming the average player levels 1-2 characters to max, that is anything from 75-87% of content of the game that will probably never be seen by the average player. An incredible resource waste in MMO design. If they were smart, they would not even have classes. Jedi / Sith would be NPC only, all the skills unlocked for all players with restrictions for the amount of skills you could use at once (for balance). At most, you would have a light or a dark side. Then you would have really deep character progression, with a ridiculous amount of acompanying quest content, without having to reroll and start from level 1 every time you wanted to see something more.

I hope you're right though. I hope that the quest content is going to have so much immersion that we want to play through 8 story paths to see what happens. Because that would be fantastic.

[Tear]

I know Bioware's already mentioned briefly on crafting in Swtor. Only going so far as to say it is in the game and they know how important a thriving economy is in MMO's. They also mentioned that it will be a more epic system of crafting. There won't be Heroic characters running around mining for hours and stuff like that. They're really driving home the point that this game is supposed to make you feel heroic and even crafting will be a major thing when you do it.

For ships they mentioned you can bring your friends over. You can decorate and customize but, again, didn't go into specifics.

As for end game content. Bioware may be new to MMO's but they aren't new to making games. They aren't stupid. They're going to look at the best and borrow from them and tweak it to make it their own. Item customization looks like a crucial part in their game play. As they have a strong loot system. Which means, and they've mentioned this before, there will be higher end raids just like WoW. They just haven't figured out what they're going to be called or how exactly they want them to work yet.

They mentioned itemization, armor and the look of your characters stating that getting full sets of armor will give bonuses but in time your going to find something that is better then what your wearing and mix and match. Which honestly is what happens in most other games. In WoW you go for a set until you find something better and slowly start the switch. Or you hold off until you get the whole set cause your more concerned about how your character looks.

I think the frustrating thing most of the Swtor community is having right now is the abundant theory crafting sessions that have people just spinning their wheels. Bioware is known for not releasing much information about their games until they release. Although to be fair though their game is set for Spring 2011. That's a quite the time gap from now until then. I think for them to say too much of anything is a mistake because anyone who has been in game development knows that games change a ton before release.

[Captain Untouchable]

In other MMO's, you can craft and gather resources, then you play the market until you get insanely rich. Then there are MMO's with high risk / reward non instanced guild PvP. It's also possible to add secondary layers of character progression once you hit the level cap.

Gathering resources? That really counts as "acceptable" endgame content? To me, that sounds hideously boring. Maybe I'm just not cut out for MMOs, but that doesn't seem like an appropriate way to satisfy your customers and their monthly subscription fees at all.

Think about the kind of people who are going to hit that level cap quickly: they probably already have maxed out Warcraft characters. If they're paying a monthly fee for the same repetative crafting / harvesting content in WOW already, then Bioware is just as likely to lose their custom as if they expected them to reroll characters.

I may just not have sufficient experience of reaching that point in online games, but to me what you've described seems like a very poor business model. You need to be adding new story content, rather than encouraging your customers to do the same thing over again. If you're airing a TV series, you wouldn't finish a season and then continue to air the last few episode over and over again: maybe the season goes through sindication, but in the mean time you create new story content. That, to me, seems like the way Bioware's head operates.

Or heads.


They can't possibly expect us to roll 8 characters though. Assuming the average player levels 1-2 characters to max, that is anything from 75-87% of content of the game that will probably never be seen by the average player. An incredible resource waste in MMO design. If they were smart, they would not even have classes. Jedi / Sith would be NPC only, all the skills unlocked for all players with restrictions for the amount of skills you could use at once (for balance). At most, you would have a light or a dark side.

Following on from KOTOR, Bioware couldn't possibly not have Jedi as a class. And based on the games, they've actually illustrated that they're capable of integrating them into a story in such a way that the other classes have an important role to play, too: so I don't thing the SWG Jediphobia is at all necessary.

Having just a light and a dark side would be a bad plan, too. Just for starters, what happens when you reroll a character, but all of your guildmates haven't hit the cap? You'd be forced into either choosing to interact with none of them by being on the opposite faction, or you'd have to re-live all of the same quests again just to be on the same side. Content per class - or at least, Jedi and non-Jedi content per faction - makes a degree of sense, given the way that Bioware tells stories.

Also, think back to that voice trailer we had ages ago. We saw footage of a Bounty Hunter and a Sith Warrior conducting a mission together and both were - as I understood what the clip was saying, at least - player characters. That implies that either:

a) There is some overlap in content, with characters from the same faction being involved in some of the same activities (or maybe they both go to the same ship, but would have different objectives in solo play?), or

b) There's the opportunity to get involved in missions that wouldn't normally be available to your class by cooperating with other players. If that Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior teamed up regularly, they'd wind up seeing 25% of the total game content, rather than just 12.5%, as it were.


But yeah. Like Tear says, we've probably got about a year left to go until release, and Bioware always plays its cards close to its chest. That we don't know much about endgame stuff so far isn't really a surprise, since we're a year away from anyone being in that position.

[Tear]

Having just a light and a dark side would be a bad plan, too. Just for starters, what happens when you reroll a character, but all of your guildmates haven't hit the cap? You'd be forced into either choosing to interact with none of them by being on the opposite faction, or you'd have to re-live all of the same quests again just to be on the same side. Content per class - or at least, Jedi and non-Jedi content per faction - makes a degree of sense, given the way that Bioware tells stories.

Also, think back to that voice trailer we had ages ago. We saw footage of a Bounty Hunter and a Sith Warrior conducting a mission together and both were - as I understood what the clip was saying, at least - player characters. That implies that either:

a) There is some overlap in content, with characters from the same faction being involved in some of the same activities (or maybe they both go to the same ship, but would have different objectives in solo play?), or

b) There's the opportunity to get involved in missions that wouldn't normally be available to your class by cooperating with other players. If that Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior teamed up regularly, they'd wind up seeing 25% of the total game content, rather than just 12.5%, as it were.


Just tossin' up more information on quests for anyone who doesn't know about it yet.

From what Bioware has stated there are two main types of quests. World and Class quests. Your class quest is an ongoing epic storyline the likes of which you experience in Mass effect/Kotor.

I know it was mentioned in some of the footage that Sith and Jedi will have to make choices in their class quests that give them light or darkside points. Letting the captain live (in the footage where the Sith and bounty hunter work together. Was one example of a lightside choice) Which in turn lead to specific powers for that class. It'll be interesting to see if that system is passed on to other classes too. Or if it ultimately leads to that character switching factions, or if its merely a power set choice.

World quests are missions anyone can do. Like zone quests in WoW. I'm sure you can join your friends in all the quests/missions weather they are class or world specific.

[Captain Untouchable]

So... was that thing with the Bounty Hunter and Sith Warrior a world quest, or class quest?

It features as part of the ongoing story arc (which sounds like a class quest), and you cite it as an example of light/dark choices, but had members of two different classes participating in it (sounds like a world quest).

Can you team up with a member of another class, and then initiate one of your own class quests (taking them with you), maybe? That's kinda the point I was trying to make in my previous post, but with more superfluous words.

[Tear]

I'm sure you can join your friends in all the quests/missions weather they are class or world specific.

I don't see why you couldn't. Social interaction is pretty much the drawing lure for MMO's. Grouping up and helping your friends on quests is a mainstay of mmo gameplay.

The only difference in group play for swtor is that bioware has made sure, with the use of companion characters, that if you don't want to find a group to complete quests you don't have to.

I've no idea weather the bounty hunter/Sith footage is world or class quest though. Either way its a neat system!

As for the light and darkside choices, or even the dialogue options system I'm still not totally clear on how it works. So far Bioware has said that it's a dice roll type system to choose who gets to answer at certain dialogue prompts. With the inclusion of the players stats playing into the chance to answer at certain times. I would imagine that if it's a class quest, the leading class would get to answer the most crucial decisions. I've seen footage of the Sith/Bounty hunter two outcomes and both times the mission to spare or kill the captain is given to the Sith. So maybe that's part of the Sith class quest?

[Park Kraken]

I just thought of something, forgive me if this has been addressed, but are they going to follow like WoW and divide the galaxy into level locked areas? Like the Core would be lvl 1-10, then progressing to the Outer-Rim being lvl 60-70, Deep Core lvl 70-80, Unknown Regions lvl 100+, etc?

[Tear]

Another gameplay Demo. I believe it's a repeat from the one shown at E3 but whatev's.

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Video Games (http://www.gametrailers.com) | Star Wars: The Old Republic (http://www.gametrailers.com/game/star-wars-the-old-republic/10449) | E3 2010: Multiplayer Demo Featurette (http://www.gametrailers.com/video/e3-2010-star-wars/701449)
XBox 360 (http://xbox360.gametrailers.com/) | Playstation 3 (http://ps3.gametrailers.com/) | Nintendo Wii (http://wii.gametrailers.com/)

[Captain Untouchable]

I like the way they've managed to take - for the Republic at least - actual classes from the KOTOR games, and blend them with the typical MMO archtypes: transposing the Force-heavy Consular into the healer / Cleric type makes a lot of sense. I like that the other classes have logical roles in spite of the presence of Jedi as well: like the Clone Wars cartoons, the Jedi clearly can't do everything on their own, and getting support from Smugglers behind cover, or Troopers with awesome-looking big guns. Or maybe I just like the fact that everyone in that scenario had an easy-to-understand, clearly-defined role in multiplayer, which means I'll probably understand what I'm supposed to be doing. :lol

[Dasquian Belargic]

The smuggler can provide healing? I'm guessing that must be with bacta in the same way you use bandages in WoW. Otherwise, you can see the similarities between the classes here and classes in other MMOs, definitely.. Consular/Druid, Trooper/Warrior, Knight/Paladin, I would guess?

[Captain Untouchable]

In my experience (which is admittedly D&D based), Druids don't do healing so much... a Consular would be more of a Cleric, given that they still do melee fighting and what-not as well.

The Consular in the vid clip was holding her lightsaber "backwards", too. I wonder if you get to choose that, or if it's an automatic class thing, a "combat style" you learn, etc.

[Salem Ave]

I'm speaking in terms of World of Warcraft, since that's the most prevalent MMO, where the druid is a hybrid class capable of being a healer or a warrior, depending on how you set up their talent tree.

[Captain Untouchable]

Ah, fair enough. In D&D (which is the most prevelant D20-based RPG game ;) ), Druids are kinda lame. They have shapeshifting and "nature" powers. :uhoh

[Dasquian Belargic]

You need to brush up on your MMO knowledge, son :p It looks like the Consular will have healing and offensive powers, generally used to provide ranged support to the rest of the party, which is the main role of a Druid in WoW (unless you spec as a tank, which I'm guessing won't be an option in this case.)

There doesn't seem to be much info on what the Smuggler/Imp Agent can actually do yet, but I'd guess they are a Hunter/Rogue variant.

[Blade Bacquin]

This thread reminds me I will have to call my friend Rudy see how testing is going on this game I am so Jealous of him. He got in on some of the earliest testing of the game so he has already been playing it for awhile probably be sick of it by the time it's released to the public.

[Captain Untouchable]

Or you could just brush up on your D&D knowledge since, you know, pretty much every MMO and RPG (Including KOTOR and Mass Effect) is based on how Dungeons and Dragons works anyway. :mneh

I would guess that Smugglers and Agents are more of the sniper / precise shooting side of things. At least, that's the impression I got from them firing from behind cover and things. WoW / Medieval archtypes are a bit hard to apply though, since your "tank" would typically be melee, whereas Troopers and Bounty Hunters have a degree of ranged to them, too.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I know how D&D works ;) All I'm saying is what I imagine are the equivalent classes in WoW, which is the MMO that the majority of people here who play MMOs have played... so you know, that would give people some idea of how party dynamics will work in Old Republic.

The taking cover part of the smuggler was what made me think Hunter/ranged dps, but there is an element of stealth there for the Imp Agent sooo I dunno. The tank is just whoever is taking the aggro, so whether they are doing that melee or ranged is by the by.

[Captain Untouchable]

Well, la-de-da. Appologies for not being part of your elitist WoW club. :rolleyes

Y'see, if we went on D&D analogies, Rogues automatically have the sneaking around aspect, and the ranged combat, so that would be the perfect analogy for Smugglers and Agents. :mneh

[Droo]

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Music! This gave me goosebumps - love hearing those Star Wars themes woven into some exciting new ones! :D

[Dasquian Belargic]

The scope of this is.. so awesome. I already am thinking "I hope they release the soundtrack to download :3"

[Crusader]

<object width="580" height="330">
</object>This gave me goosebumps - love hearing those Star Wars themes woven into some exciting new ones! :D

I hear you man! I hear you!

[Tear]

Anyone notice the bounty hunter on the speeder bike? Wooo!

[Captain Untouchable]

5.5 hours of new music? :eee

I love how much thought is going into this game. Or at least, how much of said thought they're actively drawing attention to. When you're playing, you don't necessarily realise how much effort goes into every single second. :ohno

[Karl Valten]

Holy fracking shite! I'm sold.

[Corell Capstan]

Every day closer to this game a step closer to all of us just.. vanishing for the entire post-launch month :lol

[Drin Kizael]

Otherwise, you can see the similarities between the classes here and classes in other MMOs, definitely.. Consular/Druid, Trooper/Warrior, Knight/Paladin, I would guess?

Early on, one reviewer at MMORPG predicted that the real reason that certain Force classes had dual blade lightsabres had nothing to do with combat... but to make them feel more like wizards/healers/buffers, who would more typically carry a staff than a sword. He was mocked for making the analogy. Turns out, looks like he was right.

[Figrin D'an]

I've generally liked what I have seen thus far from the gameplay footage. Still have questions about things like character abilities, progression, end-game content, UI, etc, but it at least garnered my interest. We'll see how things develop over the course of the next year.

[Dai]

A lot of folks I know are just about pissing in their pants waiting for this game.

[Captain Untouchable]

Otherwise, you can see the similarities between the classes here and classes in other MMOs, definitely.. Consular/Druid, Trooper/Warrior, Knight/Paladin, I would guess?

Early on, one reviewer at MMORPG predicted that the real reason that certain Force classes had dual blade lightsabres had nothing to do with combat... but to make them feel more like wizards/healers/buffers, who would more typically carry a staff than a sword. He was mocked for making the analogy. Turns out, looks like he was right.

Are you implying that double 'sabers are limited specifically to the "Consular" type people? Or do you just mean that certain classes are being shown with dual 'sabers in concept art / pre-release material, to help conjure up that idea in people's minds?

It's certainly a thoughtful observation for the reviewer to have made, but given that Darth Maul was likely a "Sith Warrior", and Bastilla Shan was definately a Sentinel, I would hope that if the weapon is going to be limited to anyone, it'd be the lightsaber-orientated Knights/Warriors, as opposed to the "spellcaster" Consulars/Inquisitors.

After all, don't spellcasters need to have a hand free with their casting? Sure, with a quarterstaff, holding it idly in one hand is easy... but with a double 'saber, I'd be worried about cutting my leg off. :ohno


Edit:

Right now, I'm loving the auto-play on these TOR videos. As I started writing this reply, the majesting music started playing, and made me feel decidedly awesome. :lol

[Darth Sedris]

When will this game be released?

[Dai]

Early to Mid 2011 from what I keep hearing. Hopefully they put it out in the summer.

[Acacius Blade]

I'm hoping for a good crafting system. Loved being an artisan in Galaxies. I sooo miss the character development and crafting from Galaxies. I doubt we'll see such a customizable levelling system as that, but there's no reason why they can't have an awesome crafting system going by the depth they've demonstrated so far.

[Captain Untouchable]

I'm torn with whether to agree with you about crafting or not.

Like you say, crafting in Galaxies was awesome, and they certainly have a deep and comprehensive system being put in place. But a fair chunk of the crafting element for Galaxies was to do with resource acquisition, and that sort of thing. I'm struggling to picture Jedi Knights, Sith Inquisitors, Bounty Hunters and Republic Troopers wandering around outside Mos Eisley, prospecting for the resources they need to build one of those little scout camp thingies.

I wouldn't be surprised if (unfortunately) the crafting and customisation system is more like those work benches in KOTOR.

Then again, there could be whole aspects of the game to facilitate this that we don't know about, so... *shrug*

[Crusader]

I liked the idea of the crafting system in SWG but I hated the competitive style and the overall implementation.
First of all you couldn't sell stuff like meds/buffs without first collecting the best ingredients. Collecting those took hours and then producing a shematic with stats that were attractive to buyers took a lot of patience and ingredients as well.
So in other words this system was for purists but not for people who wanted to do some crafting on the fly.

My Bro and I had the consens that this system had been perfect for a Colonization MMO where you would have to conquer the west by building settlements and exploring the nature of the new world. But this whole I built it with my bare hands feeling does not always want to fit in my idea of Star Wars although Han Solo and Anakin are do it yourself men but they do it normaly off screen since it is freaking boring in an action packed series like SW.

[Sanya Tagge]

I'm struggling to picture Jedi Knights, Sith Inquisitors, Bounty Hunters and Republic Troopers wandering around outside Mos Eisley, prospecting for the resources they need to build one of those little scout camp thingies.


I don't know... again if you look at something like Warcraft, everyone has a crafting profession, whether you're a priest, warlock, mage, warrior, paladin, etc. Bounty hunters might have something like metal work, crafting armour, for instance - and inquisitors could have an engineering skill, whereby they could make little gadgets for spying.

[Jaden Luka]

When you put it like that, I can kinda see that working, aye.

What they've mentioned about the weapons customisation makes it sound like the work benches in KOTOR. But maybe the specialist scopes, power packs, armour meshes and that sort of thing that bolt on to the basic weapons would be the sort of thing that characters can cast?

And I guess in the games, you've got the Wookiee dude from the first movie who crafts your grenades, Mission who gives you those security doodads, Ordo who gives you stims... those sort of things could maybe be player craftable too?

Like Crusader summed up, really... it's the resource collection that is my biggest mental barrier to it all. If they can find a way to get hold of the stuff in a way that is engaging and interesting (rather than setting up a robot miner like in SWG, or whatever) then I suppose I can see it working.

[Dashiel Starborn]

Material gathering, once you reach level-cap, is like the bane of Warcraft so I hope they do something fresh with it. I can't think how you could really make that kind of grind anything but tedious though, especially when you need 100 bantha horns or whatever to make the new sword you want :lol

[Jaden Luka]

100?

Man. That'd be one hell of a horny sword. :|

[Crusader]

^^This was hard to resist wasn't it?

[Captain Untouchable]

You have no idea how hard. ;)

[Crusader]

Actually I did not see this one coming.

[Droo]

That's because he was behind you. :mischief

[Acacius Blade]

I liked the idea of the crafting system in SWG but I hated the competitive style and the overall implementation.
First of all you couldn't sell stuff like meds/buffs without first collecting the best ingredients. Collecting those took hours and then producing a shematic with stats that were attractive to buyers took a lot of patience and ingredients as well.
So in other words this system was for purists but not for people who wanted to do some crafting on the fly.

My Bro and I had the consens that this system had been perfect for a Colonization MMO where you would have to conquer the west by building settlements and exploring the nature of the new world. But this whole I built it with my bare hands feeling does not always want to fit in my idea of Star Wars although Han Solo and Anakin are do it yourself men but they do it normaly off screen since it is freaking boring in an action packed series like SW.

Yet look how popular it was in SWG. There was obviously a large portion of the player base who enjoyed it, hence why it was a player-driven economy aside form the few basic starting items. And it should be competitive. If you want to dedicate your time to it, gathering the highest quality materials to produce better equipment, then your goods should be desirable above someone who just thought "What the hell, I'll make a few guns for some quick cash."

[Crusader]

Like I said it was for purists and it was a great idea since it made crafting a real profession and not a feature that was taged on to the gameplay.

I know how rewarding it was to build my first disease with materials from the geo cave and resources that costed me nearly one or two million credits. And I still remember the TKM that did not expect his life bar going all the way black before he had mine down to 50%.
I then finished the guy with the infamous words of Ryland Larr: "I think I am going to enjoy this."

I just think that this system can't compete with WoW's insane loot system and the WoW audience is what Bioware is after.

I think a player driven econemy is a great idea but I would love to see a game that would take just that topic and try to build a MMO around it. I think games like farmville and frontierville have shown us that it is the right time for that.

I could see me chuck wood for building my own cabin in a video game that is based on a setting before or after the American revolution but during the war between the Republik and the Sith Empire I have got better things to do.

[Inyos Aamoran]

More so, I think it's worth bearing in mind that it's the Bioware audience that Bioware is after.

They already have two highly successful MMO franchises under their belt, with Mass Effect and KOTOR. They have come up with a pretty solid combat system over the course of the two; they've made working alongside an NPC / pet an integral concept; they've got a pretty versatile skill system to boot; and we've already seen from the information they've revealled that they've incorporated all of that into the game in some fashion.

What KOTOR doesn't have is a crafting system. You can "customize" your weapons (which they've referenced as being an option) but your main character rarely constructs them. Given how paced and tight the KOTOR and Mass Effect stories are, and how they want to provide you with as much experience as possible through the story without needing to "grind", I really can't see them implementing a similar grind-based resource system for crafting.

I'd love to see something, but full-on crafting isn't Bioware's "style" from what we've seen so far.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Are there any MMOs that exist without some form of crafting? It's a way of ensuring that people continue playing, even after they have finished the 'story' content. Even with expansion packs, it doesn't take long for the player base to reach the level-cap ceiling, after which point all you have to do is raid and pvp, all of which depend on you grinding to get the necessary materials for the next best armour/weapon you need to stay competitive in the raid/pvp arena.

As much as I'd like to think this game will have no 'grinding for frost motes', from a business point of view, it would make no sense for Bioware to leave something like that out of SW:TOR - and hey, some people apparently get a kick out of it!

[Morgan Evanar]

I think a player driven econemy is a great idea but I would love to see a game that would take just that topic and try to build a MMO around it. I think games like farmville and frontierville have shown us that it is the right time for that.
It's called EVE-Online.

[Acacius Blade]

The grind is the problem. With SWG there was no grinding if you did it properly. I remember Droo telling me about some guy on the SWG forums who wanted something silly like 100,000 units of this vorhitor (sp?) meat and was paying big money for it. So Droo farmed them like crazy, getting XP and other mats at the same time. Droo didn;t HAVE to farm that meat, but he wanted the money. And the chef guy didn't lift a finge,r he just payed for the goods. Imagine how much more willing you'd be to go farm 2000 Saronite Ore if you already had a buyer waiting. It's like the AH but the other way around - stating goods that are in demand rather than viewing the current supply (basically the current AH stock). Eve's market is fantastic and I wish other games had such an in-depth way of doing things. I honestly don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if people offered a service in Eve where they'll ship goods from one place to the other, perhaps offering some sort of guarantee that they'll get it there safely (since in Eve you can lose your ship/cargo permanently). Imagine the same thing in something like WoW - someone selling materials in Ironforge but it's needed by someone in Stormwind. Obviously the buyer can go to IF but what if there was a reason they couldn't do that and they NEED to do whatever in Stormwind. It's then necessary to transport the materials. Now there's currently no jeaopardy involved due to WoW's game mechanics, but straight away it opens an avenue for more interaction between players.

WoW's biggest flaws are in it's design when it comes to stuff like that - it's so so so so easy to solo the entire thing and never have to interact with or rely on another player. Yet they still play the MMO. There needs to be more massively multiplayer aspects to these games, like what Eve has done with its market and even it's PvP system - the consequences of defeat are so high and permanent that you go out of your way to group with others by joining a corporation. Safety in numbers, teamwork tactics - it's a lot more rewarding when you're in the thick of it.

Slightly off-topic, I know, but it sort of links with why I think WoW's crafting is the way it is.

[Yog]

I completely agree with Acacius. What makes a deep economy and crafting system interesting is when you have attained the knowledge how to NOT grind. Deep crafting / economy is essential for long term interest for a lot of people when it comes to MMO's. I'm one of those. While I could rant for (p)ages about the various things that went wrong with SWG, the one thing they got bullseye correct was resource collecting and crafting (I guess player cities / housing and social features were really cool as well).

In other MMO's, the "Crafters" have to run around for ages in the wild to get the resources they require, sometimes waiting for rare "respawns", or poopsock dungeon grind with a serious business raiding guild every week (I'm looking at you WoW). And when it comes to crafting itself, you typically have to just click the assemble button. Very very weak. In SWG, yes, you had to put in a lot of effort and time initially to learn your trade, but eventually it was minimal amount of grind, because the harvesters machines did their thing on their own after having prospected the best area. It felt extremely satisfying mastering the formula and having the quality resources to build low HAM composite armor that you could wear even without a doctor buff (!).

I also really liked the player run vendors in SWG. Beats the hell out of auction house.



Eve's market is fantastic and I wish other games had such an in-depth way of doing things. I honestly don't know, but it wouldn't surprise me if people offered a service in Eve where they'll ship goods from one place to the other, perhaps offering some sort of guarantee that they'll get it there safely (since in Eve you can lose your ship/cargo permanently).
In EVE, you can set up courier contracts, with a collateral fee which works a bit like insurance. Usually, major corporations / alliances have freighting services where you can hire some professionals with jumpfreighters, scouts and escorts, at reasonable prices, to / from Jita. It has to be said though, while hauling cargo through 0.0 space is very risky, if you're paranoid and know what you're doing, it's cheaper to haul it yourself (and hell of a lot exciting!). Personally, I run a lot of my cargo with a Prowler, which is like a cruiser speed industrial, with a cloaking device (you can warp cloaked!). Or when I need to move smaller stuff, I use my Cheetah (T2 frigate with cloaking device). I scout myself through systems with alternate account, and I'm able to get past most gatecamps alive (even the ones with warp disruption bubbles).

But yeah, the EVE economy is entirely player run. Absolutely every single component, ship, structure and module in the game. Even the blueprints you can manufacture yourself, and I believe CCP intends to make even the skillbooks player produced..

[Dai]

I completely agree with Acacius. What makes a deep economy and crafting system interesting is when you have attained the knowledge how to NOT grind. Deep crafting / economy is essential for long term interest for a lot of people when it comes to MMO's. I'm one of those. While I could rant for (p)ages about the various things that went wrong with SWG, the one thing they got bullseye correct was resource collecting and crafting (I guess player cities / housing and social features were really cool as well).

In other MMO's, the "Crafters" have to run around for ages in the wild to get the resources they require, sometimes waiting for rare "respawns", or poopsock dungeon grind with a serious business raiding guild every week (I'm looking at you WoW). And when it comes to crafting itself, you typically have to just click the assemble button. Very very weak. In SWG, yes, you had to put in a lot of effort and time initially to learn your trade, but eventually it was minimal amount of grind, because the harvesters machines did their thing on their own after having prospected the best area. It felt extremely satisfying mastering the formula and having the quality resources to build low HAM composite armor that you could wear even without a doctor buff (!).

I also really liked the player run vendors in SWG. Beats the hell out of auction house.


I have this strange inclination that SWTOR is going to deliver on the vendors. However, since all of the videos on their site and others have been so combat-orienated, I get the same feelings Untouchable is getting. The game hasn't offered an occupation that lends to those sentiments. It's lame. :\

Although, they seem to be trying to do somwthing with the "player cities" thing with the ships. Although, it doesn't sound nearly as communial as the city events I remember from SWG. Guilds upon guilds, grinders, rpers, everybody had a cool city on the servers, and there was so much in-game content that was customizable for interaction...I haven't seen that in this game.

It seems customization, beyond the armors, hasn't even been explored that much in the highlights so far - which has been my only bone with this game. Only, emphasized, because I definately can't wait for it to hit shelves.

[Droo]

New planet: Nar Shaddaa (http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100730_003-0)!

One of my favourite planets(I know its a moon!) from Star Wars, I love its atmosphere in the Jedi Knight games. However, the images don't really say Smuggler's Moon to me but there are only few. I want to see it looking taller, narrower, darker, and more cluttered. Still, there's time.

[Captain Untouchable]

It seems more like the part of Coruscant from Episode II where Obi Wan didn't want to buy any deathsticks to me. :\

Which is... odd. Not only was the portrayal in the Jedi Knight games good, but they did pretty well in KOTOR 2. With Tatooine and Korriban, they've taken and expanded upon the same vibe that they had in the earlier games... but Nar Shaddaa seems totally different.

Maybe we're just seeing the more expensive, clean part of town? Guess it all depends on camera angles once you get in there and such: they probably aren't showcasing the model from "player view" angles...

[Crusader]

New planet: Nar Shaddaa (http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100730_003-0)!

However, the images don't really say Smuggler's Moon to me but there are only few. I want to see it looking taller, narrower, darker, and more cluttered.

Maybe they want to show a less croweded Nar Shadda because it is much younger than in Jedi Knight.

[Dai]

They should talk to Obsidan Entertainment about how Nar Shaddaa should be done. Maybe with people it'll be a bit more cluttered and filled with villany, but it seems a bit too light right now. Could be the graphics, so I'm going to give it some time before I rule that planet out of my fun quest.

[Droo]

New playable races were announced (http://www.swtor.com/news/news-article/20100806) today. So it seems that on top of being a bog-standard human, each class will also have the option of being customized as another alien species, and so far the options we know of are:

Bounty Hunter: Rattataki
Imperial Agent: Chiss
Sith Warrior: Sith Pureblood
Sith Inquisitor: Zabrak

Smuggler: Twi'lek
Jedi Knight: Miraluka
Jedi Consular: Mirialan

The article says further options will be announced in the future, hopefully that extends beyond the reveal for the Rebuplic Trooper non-human race, which is the only one presently unknown. Surely there will be more than two race options per class?

[Dasquian Belargic]

Miraluka Jedi Knight :D imma rollin me one of them!

[Droo]

Which brings us to another important point: in the event that we can all play together, does anyone have any preferences to which faction we go? Personally, I think the Republic classes, except the trooper, are a bit pants compared to any of the four classes of the Sith Empire.

But the trooper does look all kinds of awesome! :ohno

[Dasquian Belargic]

I will be playing both, but based on my gaming history... I expect to be playing Sith more than Jedi.

[Captain Untouchable]

But the trooper does look all kinds of awesome! :ohno

Quoted for great truth.

At this stage, I'm really torn. The way the servers / characters per server / etc breaks down will make a big difference, but I think I'd want a Republic Trooper and a Sith Warrior.

Like Droo says, the Troopers are helishly awesome looking, and for the most part the role fits with my usual MMO style of play. But, there are times when I might find myself wanting to leap through the air and slash the crap out of stuff with a Lightsaber; throwing melee in from time to time would make a nice change of pace, and it gives me a taste of both mundane and "magic" use, as well as good / bad, etc.

It depends on the servers, really... and on which factions / classes / etc wind up being more fun in the long run.

[Naomi Lang]

Rolling a human Sith Inquisitor

[Dashiel Starborn]

^ Would never have guessed :mneh :lol

[Naomi Lang]

^ Would never have guessed :mneh :lol

Whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat? :rolleyes

[Crusader]

<object width="640" height="385">So this is how space battles look like. This video is from Game Com in Germany and features scenes of gameplay


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/iqWO05K-c10?fs=1&hl=de_DE" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="640" height="385"></object>

So <s>Rebel</s> Republic Assault is back. My initial thought was: "This is not what people had in mind." My next thought was: "Oh this reminds me of Rebel Assault 1 & 2 and the action sequences in Lego SW. I love this old school gameplay. Oh and it looks epic... I will probably like it."

[Captain Untouchable]

WANT. :eee

I must have missed (or forgotten) the part about space combat being in there, so this is a rather pleasant surprise for me.

It'll be interesting to see how they integrate it into the game, given that it's an integral feature from square one rather than bolted on afterwards like JTL. Does anyone know if it will be a required or optional thing? The KOTOR games threw in gun turret combat at you every now and again, to provide a bit of variety in the gameplay, and we've already seen the player transport type ships: I wonder if we'll see those random space encounters occurring, or if it'll be the kind of thing you can easily opt out of.

[Corell Capstan]

That actually looks pretty cool, and fairly simple. Nice!

[Dai]

I believe they'll give an option, especially with the different professions and the amount of story. With JTL people could do missions or go into space. So far they've announced areas on planets where "war" PvP will take place, and we can only expect they'd do the same in space.

Otherwise, they'd be doing everybody, including themselves, a disservice. Either way, the game looks awesome and I've read we only have til Spring 2011 to get our hands on this. I know ill be rolling a Jedi. They've updated it, and it more interesting. Wish they'd give an option to see the create a character scene. I liked the customization of other games like City of Heroes, and even SWG when it first came out.

[Yog]

That space combat trailer combined with the ship interior trailer makes me excited about space ships in Old Republic. Nice.

Does anyone know if multiple players can man gun turrets? And do you think cruiser size ships be available in any form for guilds? Is it possible to organize fleets? Or is it just solo player flying with friends in the backseat?

[Tear]

Looks good. I just wish the flying was free form and not on guided rails.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Ahhh.. so it is on rails.

I guess that makes me think space combat like that would be part of specific quests/instances/raids then.. rather than just random mob encounters.

Is there any plan on having PvP space combat? I'm guessing that would be more free-form (and potentially a total clusterfuck :cyduck)