Here it is! USS New York

[Itala Marzullo]

Made of the metal from the fallen twin towers of 9/11! Its moto: Never Forget


http://i188.photobucket.com/albums/z81/giuliano81/get-attachment.jpg

[Hartus Kenobi]

I generally don't glorify war or machines of war, but that is indeed a beautiful and emotionally power image. I presume only a very small percentage of the scrap metal from the WTC could be suitable to be used to build the USS New York, but it's very cool nevertheless. Hopefully it more ornamental than a ship that's intended for battle.

[Morgan Evanar]

I uh, don't get it. What?

[Erik Centter]

I generally don't glorify war or machines of war, but that is indeed a beautiful and emotionally power image. I presume only a very small percentage of the scrap metal from the WTC could be suitable to be used to build the USS New York, but it's very cool nevertheless. Hopefully it more ornamental than a ship that's intended for battle.

Well, if somehow they found Osama, they should tie him up and have the USS New York blow him away.

[Hartus Kenobi]

I uh, don't get it. What?

USS New York Wiki (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_New_York_(LPD-21))

Wasn't keeping track of the process, but essentially they just used the steel from the fallen WTC site to help build this naval transport dock. Seems like a touching tribute, although I would prefer that the steel was dedicated to loftier goals.

[Itala Marzullo]

Yeah, God forbid we have a military in case a country invades and whatnot.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Invades by sea?

For that matter, who would be stupid enough to 'invade' the US at all? Any kind of threat your country is going to see isn't going to be from some huge army that can be stopped with the navy.

[Hartus Kenobi]

Yeah, God forbid we have a military in case a country invades and whatnot.
It's a amphibious transport dock. It isn't designed for defending our shores. It's designed to help the US project it's military power across the globe.

[Chitbatuuk]

Yeah, God forbid we have a military in case a country invades and whatnot.
It's a amphibious transport dock. It isn't designed for defending our shores. It's designed to help the US project it's military power across the globe.

Which in turn protects the integrity of the navy. If the navy was so useless, then we wouldn't have one.


Invades by sea?

Troy
Persian-Greco War
D-Day
Most of the pacific theather.
Etc Etc Etc times infinity.

Anyway I'm only being hypothetical, of course nobody would dare invade the USA in any way, shape or form, but that's because the USA's military is so powerful. If the boy scouts of the world didn't have such militaries, believe me, there'd be wars all over the place. Good or bad, not that it means I agree OR disagree.

[Hartus Kenobi]

Yeah, God forbid we have a military in case a country invades and whatnot.
It's a amphibious transport dock. It isn't designed for defending our shores. It's designed to help the US project it's military power across the globe.

Which in turn protects the integrity of the navy. If the navy was so useless, then we wouldn't have one.
Not saying the navy is useless, but it has been centuries since the US's grand strategy had much to do with protecting the US from an invasion. To me, the question is NOT why we have a global naval presence; for me, it's a question of whether or not 1) most of these objectives are still necessary and/or ethically justifiable after the threat of the Soviet Union has passed, 2) continuing to pursue certain Cold War-era strong-arm policies serves the best interest of the United States (which I believe is global stability), and 3) whether or not US interests can be better defended in most instances through projections of soft power. Of course, I'm not so outrageous to argue that a strong military isn't a necessity for a superpower that half the world depends on for safety and stability, but I think there is just too much gray area when it comes to the military industrial complex. I would much rather the steel be used to do something like construct schools and libraries in impoverished countries or something like that.



Invades by sea?

Troy
Persian-Greco War


D-Day
Most of the pacific theather.
Etc Etc Etc times infinity.

Anyway I'm only being hypothetical, of course nobody would dare invade the USA in any way, shape or form, but that's because the USA's military is so powerful. If the boy scouts of the world didn't have such militaries, believe me, there'd be wars all over the place. Good or bad, not that it means I agree OR disagree.
There are already wars all over the place. The US is in many of them. Would there be MORE wars if the US wasn't the hegemon? Perhaps. But I don't think it has anything to do with the fact that you consider the US to be "boy scouts." It has to do with the fact that the US is so powerful that we can impose a certain level of stability across the world. If the Nazis had won WWII, or the Soviet Union won the Cold War (thank goodness neither of these thigns happened), and if either had succeeded in becoming the lone superpower, I'd imagine that at this point in time there would be a comparable level of violence in the world.

Plus, I think the current unprecedented global stability is more a result of the proliferation of nuclear weapons than it is of any inherent "goodness" of the United States. Though I do truly believe one of the biggest reasons WHY the US was able to help win WWII and won the Cold War was because the international community recognized in most cases that we almost always the lesser of the two evils.

[Kat Kariena]

Does anyone else find the satement "No one would dare invade the US" as ironic as I do?

Kinda like... "No one would dare attack the US"

I dunno... maybe it's just me...

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I dunno, I'm just kinda glad we're finally recycling.

[Kat Kariena]

:lol:lol:lol:lol

[Darth Fernal]

Looking at the picture, I get my geek on when I see the similarities with a Star Destroyer.

[Charley]

Our geography is as much of a conventional warfare defense as anything we can bring to bear on a battlefield. Even a modest navy could exert an enormous strain on the fragile supply lines that would be necessary to bring an invasion force successfully here.

Hart said it correctly. The US Navy isn't really in the defense business that much. Force projection has been the doctrine since the invention of the aircraft carrier.

[Itala Marzullo]

All points are right, but like I said, there would be even more wars in shape of little wars everywhere if it wasn't for the western powers.

However, Hart, the USA needs its military as it is and maybe stronger (in agreement with you though, get the troops the hell out of the middle east), since China has been building its military (particularly its navy) for decades. We all know Taiwan will cause a war sooner or later.

You can't just have a military that is "just enough", that would be suicide.

As far as Iraq goes, wether it's justified or not, the Iraqis will go back to slaughtering each other the second the last American troop leaves the country and go back the way it was with another dictator. It's a huge waste of good soldiers.

[Charley]

China and US isn't analogous to Russia and US. We both have far too much to gain by being at peace with each other. It's not like the Cold War was duked out by nations that shared most favored trading partner status.

We certainly wouldn't let a stumbling block like Taiwan precipitate that. Look at the stellar sort of diplomatic counsel the Taiwanese have.

[Hartus Kenobi]

All points are right, but like I said, there would be even more wars in shape of little wars everywhere if it wasn't for the western powers.

However, Hart, the USA needs its military as it is and maybe stronger, since China has been building its military (particularly its navy) for decades. We all know Taiwan will cause a war sooner or later.

You can't just have a military that is "just enough", that would be suicide.

The reason why there aren't more wars is because more countries have nuclear weapons, and the West typically attacks and destroys any nation it believes WILL be a threat in the future (Bush Preemption Doctrine). If the Soviet Union did not have nukes and did not step up to us throughout the Cold War, I think there is very little doubt that the US would have tried to steam-roll across the entire world, semi-colonizing every nick and cranny. Same can be said of the USSR if it had not been for the USA. The claim that the unprecedented peace since WWII is a reflection of the US's altruism and the power of Chistrianity or democracy is, I believe, what you should expect from any nation's propaganda machine, but you shouldn't take it at face value.
Before WWII, these "western powers" you speak of successfully occupied or colonized EVERY region in the WORLD with the exception of East Asia. To argue that suddenly after WWII the "West" was enlightened simply isn't credible. More likely, we were just scared out of our minds by the Soviets, who legitimately check US hegemony, and it was only the very real and looming threat of the USSR that kept the West allied with one another.

So no, I have no reason to expect the US and China to enter into major conflict with one another as long as 1) they both possess nuclear weapons, and 2) the US does not succeed with their theater missile defense shield. When you also realize that China had and has the most benign and peaceful foreign policy of any major power in the history of the world, it's even more laughable that warhawks in the US are expecting some huge Chinese invasion. True, China has a long history of civil war, but whenever China is unified, I don't recall an single instance of major foreign aggression on their part in at least the past few centuries. Perhaps even the last millenium.
Anyway, having studied the region extensively, I am relatively certain that Taiwan will eventually be absorbed by the mainland without major war, and the US will likely consent to it.

But it may even be a moot point. China's military power won't seriously challenge the US's on the world stage for another 50-100 years. And by the time it happens, it's very possible that China has made enough major progress in democratization that the US would have much less reason to object to them finally taking back Taiwan. Hong Kong hasn't turned out that bad, and the US people will eventually lose our appetite to entering into other country's civil wars (hopefully).

[Itala Marzullo]

Tsk tsk, a lot of you are seriously underestimating human stupidity. I don't like being a pessimist, but I doubt there's such things as "Nobody is stupid enough..." when it comes to war.

But, it doesn't harm to hope I'm wrong.

[Kat Kariena]

"No one would be stupid enough to attack the US!" then we had 9/11

"No one would be stupid enough to invade the US!" This should be interesting....

I'm not saying I want it to happen, but just about the time this country gets "satisfied" with where it's at, and 90% of her people are stupid enough to belive that we are the all-powerful United States of America (which I have observed through history is about once a generation really), something happens to knock us to our knees and make us reconsider...

[Morgan Evanar]

"No one would be stupid enough to attack the US!" then we had 9/11

"No one would be stupid enough to invade the US!" This should be interesting...No one has invaded the US since the British in 1812 and there is a reason for that. We are a total pain in the behind to invade.

Land war in Asia and all.

[Kat Kariena]

:lol Tis true, but the general point is someone, eventually, somewhere will be stupid enough to try :lol

[Itala Marzullo]

Well, wether people like it or not, the USA is the world's current empire at its peak, but like all empires, it will come to an end someday.

[Liam Jinn]

Japan invaded Alaska during WWII, didn't last very long, but it happened. I just saw the special on the Military Channel, or maybe it was the History Channel, who knows. I'm sure someone will disagree, but hey, I'm just letting you know what I learned.

And knowing is half the battle... Uh, or something.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Does anyone else find the satement "No one would dare invade the US" as ironic as I do?

Kinda like... "No one would dare attack the US"

I dunno... maybe it's just me...

My point was that there is a difference between attacking and invading. Like I said, any threat I could imagine the US seeing in the near future will come from isolated attacks like 9/11, not a full-scale invasion by another country. Logistics and geographical impracticality aside, the US is the worlds sole superpower. Those with the potential to rival them - the EU, China, Russia, India - aren't going to be invading any time soon.

[Kat Kariena]

good point

[Hartus Kenobi]

Well, it's not so much a matter of stupidity. Currently no country even has the capacity to sustain an invasion the United States. The Soviets probably did at the height of the Cold War, but our nukes kept them at a reasonably safe distance. For emerging rogue nations, the Bush Doctrine "allows" the US to preemptively cripple any country that it believes WILL sometime in the future have the capacity to hurt the United States AT ALL, so very few new countries will be able to develop the technology to even make striking at the US a possibility without getting blown to bits first.

The only qualifier is if Russia regains it's strength, and, of course, China, which is still a long ways from having the ability to transport that number of troops and vehicles across the globe. It would even first have to establish naval bases closer to the US to establish some sorta supply chain. Maybe in some Socialist South American country.

And anyway, if either the US or China is going to try to invade the other, if history means anything to anyone, it really is like a 1,000 times more likely that it'll be the US that invades them.

Basically, we should be most concerned about terrorist attacks and nuclear attacks.

[Kat Kariena]

oh, I would say there are a few other things, but then I might get flamed for being weired or a geek, or offend somebody :lol

[Itala Marzullo]

Such are the times we live in.

[Dasquian Belargic]

If you have something to say, please feel free say it. We're all individuals and alowed to have different opinions :mneh