New d20 Star Wars Corebook

[Terran Starek]

I'm a big fan of tabletop roleplaying (been playing since I was about 10) and I keep up with it as much as I can. I led a Star Wars campaign that met on Tuesdays for about 3 months this past year, but my players kept complaining about the "clunkiness" of the endless rules and systems in place in the last Star Wars roleplaying books.

Complain no more, my friends! WotC has released a new Star Wars Rolpeplaying Corebook called "Saga Edition." The cool thing is, it includes all six of the movies.

http://books.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/06/12/0154216

Looks like a good review. I happen to be a "rule guy" myself, so rules don't intimidate me, but anything that streamlines the process for the factor of fun is smart. I'm going to order a copy of this book next week so I can look over it myself. :)

[Morgan Evanar]

I heard that most of the D6 players really hate the D20 rulesets.

[Terran Starek]

I was kind of "eh" about them. This new book supposedly goes back to some of the d6 roots. For example, with skills: instead of "listen, spot, search" being separate skills, you've got one skill: "perception." That's a throwback to the d6 system.

[Terran Starek]

Ok, so I bought the new book on sale at a local game store for $29.95 (includes tax). I got a good discount so I went for it. So far, as I'm reading through it, I really like it. A couple of things I like about it so far:

This may only make sense if you are a paper and pencil nerd and if you have been familiar with the previous Star Wars d20 system. :D

* There are only five core classes (Jedi, Noble, Scoundrel, Scout, Soldier), but within each class there are a few Talent Trees which enable you to customize. You gain talents as you level up, and you get them almost like feats. Example: Within the Jedi class, there are four talent trees to draw from: Jedi Guardian, Jedi Consular, Jedi Sentinel, and Lighstaber Combat. There are no penalties for drawing from any one of the trees and you don't have to specialize or pick just one.

* You always get something when you level up. There are no level ups that do nothing for you, like some level up-ing in DnD. *Cough* level 2*Cough*

* Skills are streamlined and there are no skill points. All skill checks are figured off of one very basic formula: 1/2 character level + ability modifier + 5 if your trained + 5 if you took the Skill Focus Feat. That's it. It makes it really easy to do skills. Also, you start out with X number of skills, and you don't gain other ones unless you pick a feat to do so.

* No more Vitality Points. Using Force Powers is like using a deck of cards. In each encounter, you have your "suite" of Force Powers to use. When you use one, you "discard" it until you have time to recover it. You can take multiple Force Powers for multiple uses. Example: Darth n00b wants to shock everyone with lightning. When he chooses Force Powers, he takes lightning three times. Thus, he has three "shots" of lightning per encounter. (Of course there are talents and feats to regain Force Powers during an encounter, etc.)

* All of the prestige clasess are waaaaaay cool. Examples: Jed Knight, Jedi Master, Gunslinger, Ace Pilot, Bounter Hunter, Crime Lord, etc. The cool thing is, you can draw from new talent pools in them, or you can revert back to pertinent classes and draw from previous talent pools. Example: If you were an 8th Lvl Jedi who became a Lvl 1 Jedi Knight and you didn't want to pick a new Jedi Knight talent (although you would, trust me) you could instead pick up a talent from your previous Jedi class talent trees.

* Feats are class irrelevant for the most part and allow you to bolster your character and his or her general skills/abilities. Talents are what feats used to try to be.

I could go on, but that's a lot (and I'm rambling). Anyway, I'll keep talking about it as I read it. Feel free to jump in and add anything if anyone else is reading it or playing.

[Karl Valten]

I like the skill tree idea, gets rid of the bulk of the various jedi classes. I'll miss the tech specialist though. One of my RPers had a Zabrak specializing in starship design; he never built anything worthwhile, but all the hilariously evil things happened to that guy. Most notably the Airlock Incident and getting swallowed by a giant snake.

Also like the something new every level, the new force thing weirds me out, though. I actually liked the vitality point system.

How many of the prestige classes were kept? (As in do they have the ones from the hero's guide. On that thought, did they find a way to integrate the other sourcebooks?)

How about vehicle and starship combat? The original sucked, the revised was a ton better, but it was still a pain in the neck to get a large space battle working efficiently. We had an entire session and a half dedicated to one gigantic battle finale that was a ton of fun, but took FOREVER to finish.

[Terran Starek]

Yeah, Tech Specialist was cool. I played a Duros Tech Specialist and he built his own powered armor suit. Screw Mandalorian, go Duros! But, they have already released a Web Enhancement with the Tech Specialist "Enhancement" added, including two new talent trees: Engineer and Outlaw Tech.

There are several prestige classes, but they are saving a lot of content to release in subsequent source books (as usual). The ones included in the core book: Ace Pilot, Bounty Hunter, Crime Lord, Elite Trooper, Force Adept, Force Disciple, Gunslinger, Jedi Knight, Jedi Master, Officer, Sith Apprentice, Sith Lord. The cool thing is, all of the prestige classes have something positive to offer. And of course, multi-classing has been streamlined: no XP penalties.

Vehicle Combat has changed quite a bit. Attacking is this formula: 1d20 + base attack (pilot or gunner) + vehicle's intelligence mod (represents quality of vehicle, weapons systems) + range mod. Each vehicle has a Reflex Defense (which is like AC) and a Fort Defense (which is like a Fort Save). All the formula's are simple. You don't have to take certain feats to do maneuvers. They're all governed by Pilot checks.

I don't know if that answers anything. Plus, I can't type everything that's in the book (stinkin' copyrights! :D).

[Karl Valten]

I need to run to Barnes and Nobles or Pegasus Games in Madison sometime soon. :p

[Karl Valten]

I picked up the book at a local gaming store. I haven't been able to sift through all of it yet, but I'm greatly impressed.

Especially with the improvements made to the dual-weapon fighting. The clutter has been reduced by about 80%. And the talents and new feats are freaking awesome.

When I have better grip of this I think I'll make up a character for Karl Valten and post the stats here. I figure he'd be around level 14. I'd also have create a new prestige class for him (or convert from the old version hero's handbook)

[Terran Starek]

Sweet. I'm glad you're happy with it. I'll join you, and post up stats for Terran. I figure he's about lvl 10 (total) or so. This'll be fun. :D

[Karl Valten]

Well I've figure "screw the new prestige class" until I get a better grip of the book or a supplement comes out, whichever is sooner.

So as for now I think Valten is a: Soldier 7/Officer 3/ Elite Trooper 4

[Terran Starek]

OK, here goes. This is Terran translated onto paper in the Star Wars Saga Edition RPG.


Terran Starek
Medium Human Jedi 8/Jedi Knight 3
Destiny2; Force14
Init + 18 Senses Perception +14
Languages Basic, Hutt, Rodian, Binary, Shyriiwook

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Defenses Ref 25 (flat-footed 23), Fort 24, Will 28; Block, Deflect
hp 97 Threshold 24

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Speed 6 squares
Melee lightsaber +13 (2d8)
Ranged by weapon +12
Base Atk +11; Grp +14
Special Actions Redirect Shot
Force Powers Known (Use the Force +18): Force grip, Force slam (2), Force thrust (2), farseeing, mind trick (2), move object (2), negate energy, rebuke (2), surge (2), vital transfer, sever Force
Force Techniques Improved Force Sense

------------------

Abilities Str 11, Dex 12, Con 11, Int 16, Wis 18, Cha 16
Talents Adept Negotiator, Force Persuasion, Deflect, Block, Redirect Shot, Force Intuition
Feats Force Sensitivity, Weapon Proficiency (Lightsabers), Weapon Proficiency (Simple), Force Boon, Force Training (4), Skill Focus (Use the Force, Knowledge: Jedi Lore), Weapon Focus (Lightsaber), Linguist
Skills Gather Information +13, Knowledge: Jedi Lore +18, Knowledge: Galactic Lore +13, Perception +14, Use the Force +18
Posessions Traveler's Attire, All-Weather Cloak, Travel Satchel (Contains Lightsaber, Comm Link, Datapad, 1,000 Cred Stick)

[Terran Starek]

Karl, you gonna post your stats up? I wanna see 'em. :)

[Karl Valten]

Yeah, I've been a bit busy.

I've got a good deal done, but a few things are frustrating. Mainly the no cross-class skills abilities.

How about this for possible house rules:

Starting characters' intelligence modifier also dictates the number of knowledge skills he/she possesses(In addition to ones used 'bought') and the number of cross-class skills that can be bought.

[Terran Starek]

Yeah, I was thinking that.

"Class Skills" are always arguable. For example, why isn't Gather Information a class skill for a Jedi? Afterall, Jedi double as investigators. Are you gonna tell me that Obi-Wan Kenobi didn't use that skill to discover the clone army?? :lol

It's kind of up to the house. You can't make a sourcebook perfect as a creator, you know?

[Karl Valten]

How did you calculate ability scores, dice or planned? (I went with planned).

And what the heck does Grp stand for?

Karl Valten
Medium Human Soldier 7/Elite Trooper 4/Officer 3
Destiny 2; Force 11; Dark Side 6
Init +13 Senses Perception +13
Languages Basic, High Galactic

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Defenses Reflex 31 (Flatfooted 30), Fort 31, Will 29, Dodge
hp 126; DR 2; Threshold 31

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Speed 6 squares
Melee Power sword(see notes) +19 (2d8+7/2d6+7)
Ranged Disruptor Pistol +15 (2d10)
Base Attk +14; Grp ????????
Attack Options Double Attack, Point Blank Shot, Cleave, Great Cleave, Power Attack, Devastating Attack
Special Actions Command Cover, Share Talent (Tough as Nails), Assault Tactics, Field Tactics, Delay Damage

---------------

Abilities Str 16, Dex 12, Con 14, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 10
Talents Tough as Nails, Weapon Specialization (Adv. Melee), Devastating Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (Adv. Melee), Greater Weapon Specialization (Adv. Melee), Assault Tactics, Field Tactics
Feats Weapon Proficiency (simple, pistol, rifle, adv. melee), Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Martial Arts I, Point Blank Shot, Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Dodge, Double Attack
Skills Endurance +14, Initiative +13, Knowledge (Tactics, Force Users) +14, Perception +14, Persuasion + 12
Other Delay Damage, Command Cover, Share Talent (Tough as Nails), Damage Reduction 2



*Notes

--Power sword (adv. melee) is an Inquisitorial weapon designed to counter light sabers. The device has to settings: active and inactive.

While active the weapon has a damage reduction of 20, but doesn't cut as well and has reduced damage(2d6).

While Inactive, the weapon has no damage reduction but cuts more easily (2d8)


(You think I should make the power sword and exotic weapon? I figured it would be adv. melee because it is essentialy a one-sided electrostaff.)

[Terran Starek]

Well, because of the vibroblade function in Star Wars, I would think that you could pull it off. The only consideration is "cool" factor. I mean, why are lightsabers so cool? Cuz they can cut through anything! Anything that deprives the lightsaber of that should come with some sort of cost, you know? :)

I assume that Grp was "Group," like as if you were fighting as a unit and I noticed that it was always 3 points higher than BAB on the pre-made characters, so I just went with it.

I rolled my scores and got what I got. Actually turned out about how I would imagine Terran. He's not disadvantaged physically, but doesn't stand out. He's average. His mental abilities, though, are very strong.

[Karl Valten]

I discourage rolling the dice because of the possibility all too often ending up with 'uber' charatcters. I like using the pre-planned set up, though the scores seem kind of low so I bump up the points to 28 for my group instead of 25.

[Terran Starek]

Rolling leaves a little more room for chance in the equation that I like. :) But I understand. Sometimes you get uber dudes, sometimes you get weak sauce dudes. Hard to tell.

Karl and Terran look pretty equal in points, Karl's just a little more spread out - he's better at more. Terran is concentrated and is strong in a few points and weak in others.

[Karl Valten]

Not really, most of the talents and feats are geared towards close combat, with some ally buffs.

[Laodice Laos]

I keep thinking this thread is titled 'Star Wars Cookbook' and then get all confused when I click on it. :(

[Terran Starek]

Well, Terran's bonuses add up to +11 total, and Karl's are +10, so they're pretty close. Karl's going to obviously be stronger at ranged with a unit of troops - that's where the shared talents and ally buffs come into play. Such is the point of the Officer class.

However, the Force powers a Jedi has access to are wicked if they get pulled off well and get though defenses. Some of those powers are pulling 5 or 6d6 damage plus effects and movement on the condition track. In close, a skilled Jedi swordsman can do 3 or 4d8 + lots damage. The Jedi are definitely challenging opponents.

[Travis North]

This book is great. I picked it up last weekend, just need to find people to play it with.

[Karl Valten]

Sweet, lets get a group together.

:cool:

[Travis North]

How would you go about playing? Through an IM or VOIP. I've played d20 sessions through VOIP and that is some fun stuff.

[Karl Valten]

I've tried forum posting, IM, and email. VOIP or something similar is probably the easiest way to go about doing things.

[Travis North]

I think I can get a few spots to use on a Vent server, maybe even get some additional players from a gaming team. Some of the players play tabletop games like D&D.

[Reshmar]

ok you imp scum. where are you guys hiding?

[Travis North]

Finished Travis' char sheet with Starfighter. Lets get a game going sometime.

Travis North
Medium Human Soldier 8 Ace Pilot 4
Destiny 2; Force 12; Dark Side 3
Init +15; Senses Perception +6
Languages Basic, Ryl

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Defense Ref 30 (flat-footed 26), Fort 15, Will 10
hp 132; Threshold 15

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Speed 6
Melee combat gloves +12 (1d4+2)
Ranged blaster pistol, heavy +16 (3d8+2)
Base Atk +11; Grp +15
Atk Options Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Dead Eye, Sniper
Special Actions Battle Analysis, Quick Draw

---------------

Abilities Str 12, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 12
Talents Battle Analysis, Devastating Attack (pistols), Penetrating Attack (pistols), Weapon Specialization (pistols), Elusive Dogfighter, Spacehound
Feats Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Weapon Proficiency (pistols, rifles, simple weapons), Weapon Focus (pistols), Vehicular Combat, Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, Deadeye, Quick Draw, Triple Crit (pistols), Far Shot, Sniper
Skills Initiative +15, Knowledge (tactics) +12, Mechanics +12, Pilot +15, Use Computer +12
Possessions heavy blaster pistol with targeting scope, combat gloves, code cylinder, comlink (encrypted), utility belt, holster, officer’s uniform, Imperial TIE flight suit (+5 armor, +2 equipment), TIE Interceptor starfighter


Travis' TIE Interceptor
Huge starfighter
Init +20; Senses Perception +6

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Defense Ref 29 (flat-footed 20), Fort 24, +3 armor
hp 90; DR 10; Threshold 34

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Speed fly 16 squares (max. velocity 1,250 km/h), fly 5 squares (starship scale)
Ranged laser cannons +14 (6d10x2)
Fighting Space 3x3 or 1 square (starship scale); Cover total
Base Atk +11; Grp +35
Atk Options autofire (laser cannons)

---------------

Abilities Str 38, Dex 24, Con -, Int 16
Skills Initiative +20, Mechanics +12, Perception +6, Pilot +20

---------------

Crew 1 (heroic); Passengers none
Cargo 75kg; Consumables 2 days; Carried Craft none
Availability Military; Cost 120,000 (50,000 used)





Grp is the abbreviation for Grapple Modifier determining your grapple modifier is explained under Grapple within the Combat section. To save searching here is the equation and your Grp modifiers respectively.

Grp = BAB + Str or Dex Mod (whichever is higher) + Size Modifier

Terran's Grp is 12 = BAB 11 + Dex Mod 1 + Size (Medium) 0

Karl's Grp is 17 = BAB 14 + Str Mod 3 + Size (Medium) 0

[Reshmar]

Has anyone looked at the new starship stats in the Saga Edition Starships of the galaxy source book?