NFL Offseason and Draft

[jjwr]

NFL is pretty much year round so I figured what the heck.

Some incredible moves so far, very suprised by the cuts of Joe Horn, Eric Moulds and Joey Porter. Plummer retiring is also unexpected but odds are he will just sit a year and be able to choose the team he plays for.

No huge signings yet, as a Pats fan I'm really hoping they go for one of the WR's - Moulds or Horn. Both are Vets but they would bridge the gap nicely.

Also reading that the Pats are very close to a blockbuster deal with Adalius Thomas!! He's not young like Briggs but he's a stud and will instantly improve their D, they finally have a LB who can actually cover Tight Ends (think Colts game). Also gives them some flexability in the draft and not needing a LB at the very top, they can build some depth.

[Ryan Pode]

How about Nate Clements getting 80 mil? Ridiculous. I think Thomas will wind up in SF.

[jjwr]

The Clements deal was ridiculous. That makes the Franchise deal the Pats got for Sammuel that much better. Course after that number Sammuel may try and hold out for a big pay day himself.

As for Thomas, unless something drastic happens he'll be a Pat!

http://patriots.bostonherald.com/patriots/view.bg?articleid=186089

[Jedi Master Carr]

Clement got way too much money. He is good but he isn't worth that kind of money. I will post some Chief news too. Since they signed Damon Huard to a 3 year deal, the Chiefs are going to try to trade Trent Green. Miami for some reason is interested, sorry JMK. I think Green should retire, I am not sure if he has anything left.

[sirdizzy]

How bout Denver trading Tatum Bell to the Lions for Dre Bly

Name me one CB tandem in the NFL that will be scarier next year then Bly and Bailey

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not sure if Bly is that great. He is better than most corners but he never impressed me at Detroit.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

That's because he was at Detriot. :p

Garcia gets a deal which lands him with the Bucs. And it looks like Denver went and sent Plummer to the Bucs as well, retired or not. Heh.

[sirdizzy]

its clears up 5.3 million dollar cap room for us by trading Plummer regardless if he signs with the Bucs or not and we are shopping the free agent market pretty heavily, we got Travis Henry coming into tomorrow, Amahan Green Just left plus we have been talking to Daniel Graham, and Patrick Kerney


I am liking the moves, I was nervous after they traded Bell because it leaves a hole at the back position (as Nash died in the offseason as well) but if they can swing Henry he will make the best back for the broncos running scheme since they traded Portis away

plus a good D linemen can't hurt as well

[jjwr]

Green just signed with the Texans so he's off the market. I'm guessing Graham will go to Denver when all is said and done.

Now its looking like the Pats are going to swipe Wes Walker from the Dolphins, he's the type of gutsy, gritty WR that they love.

[Ryan Pode]

Wes Welker is the white man's Reggie Bush. He catches, he runs, he returns kicks and punts, plays special teams, even kicks off and kicks FGs and PATs.

[jjwr]

Ryan, from watching him every week what are your thoughts on Thomas? Obviously the Pats covet versatility and their linebackers are old and slow and none of them could cover a TE if their life depended on it so I'm loving that aspect of the deal.

Further word the Pats might be targeting Randy Moss, Belechick has been quoted saying he's always been a fan of his and feels that he could coach him and get the most out of him and that their locker room has enough high character veterans to keep him in line.

[sirdizzy]

Denver signed Travis Henry, meaning they shored up their Rb after trading Bell. So they have added a probowl CB, a probowl RB and its only cost them George Foster and Olinemen.

Plus they may get Graham, which would be awesome because it would give them their first real TE since Sharpe retired, toss in a better back running the ball, and they still got Javon Walker and Jay Cutler could look pretty good. All they need is a solid #2 WR so they can move Rod Smith to #3, shore up the offensive line in the draft and maybe pick up Kerney or another dlinemen in the draft.

[Ryan Pode]

Looks like Henry is becoming a Bronco, meaning Lewis will likely be resigned by the Ravens.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Denver signed Travis Henry, meaning they shored up their Rb after trading Bell. So they have added a probowl CB, a probowl RB and its only cost them George Foster and Olinemen.

Plus they may get Graham, which would be awesome because it would give them their first real TE since Sharpe retired, toss in a better back running the ball, and they still got Javon Walker and Jay Cutler could look pretty good. All they need is a solid #2 WR so they can move Rod Smith to #3, shore up the offensive line in the draft and maybe pick up Kerney or another dlinemen in the draft.

When did Henry go to the Probowl? It wasn't recently, his last two years haven't been that great.

[Ryan Pode]

Ryan, from watching him every week what are your thoughts on Thomas? Obviously the Pats covet versatility and their linebackers are old and slow and none of them could cover a TE if their life depended on it so I'm loving that aspect of the deal.

He is a product of the scheme. You need to scheme him appropriately. I think the Patriots will use him properly. He's 6'2, 270 and runs a 4.4. He's 100% freak. My only concern at this point is durability. While he's remained relatively unharmed (Broke his arm in '03), how long can someone go as this big of a paradox on physics.

Henry was a 1400 yard back/double digit TDs in '02/03

[Jedi Master Carr]

Oh okay I knew he didn't make the probowl the last three seasons. Although he had over a thousands yards last year. I knew he had been hurt the previous two seasons.

[sirdizzy]

he made the probowl when he was with the Bills before a rash of injuries and Mcgahee forced him to the titans

[Ryan Pode]

Jamal Lewis became a Brown. Now, he's had his best games when the Browns were present. Does this mean every game will be a 295 yarder?

[Yog]

Further word the Pats might be targeting Randy Moss, Belechick has been quoted saying he's always been a fan of his and feels that he could coach him and get the most out of him and that their locker room has enough high character veterans to keep him in line.

Further reason to hate the Pats.. :x

What are your guys thoughts on this year's draft. Who are the first round picks? And who is going to be the next Marques Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew?

[Ryan Pode]

Further reason to hate the Pats.. :x

What are your guys thoughts on this year's draft. Who are the first round picks? And who is going to be the next Marques Colston and Maurice Jones-Drew?

There is talent in the draft. Need to wait till all the pro-days are done though to really start being able to tell is going to be elite. As for the next Marques Colston, I give you <a href=http://www.nfl.com/draft/profiles/2007/ball_david> David Ball.</a> He holds the I-AA touchdown record, beating out some guy named Jerry Rice. The only knock on him is that he's too slow, which, always seems to be the knock, but never sets them back.

[jjwr]

Tough call at the top, the Raiders should take Russell but who knows if they will. I still won't be suprised if the Lions pick up the stud WR Calvin Johnson(?) even though they really should trade it down a team desperate for him and get some additional players.

As for Ball, he went to school at Spaulding HIgh school which is in Barre, Vermont and about 6 miles from where I grew up and went to school. He's been well known around here for a while and even shows up at the local outdoor court for summer hoops at the local playground. Course he didn't play this last summer as he was trying to stay injury free but he's been around a lot. We're rooting for him to make it, very athletic and can really leap. He has incredible hands and catches everything thats near him.

[jjwr]

Ravens picked up McGahee...interesting move.

Falcons picked up Horn, probably the best WR Vick has had, if he can't do something with Horn then who knows if he ever will.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Ugh, I'm going to throw in my Bill's banner. :(

[Ryan Pode]

Lewis' success hinges on who the Browns draft. Obviously, QB Brady Quinn or OT Joe Thomas could help Lewis' numbers, while RB Adrian Peterson would not. The biggest problems for Lewis are the Browns' lack of a passing game and the fact he won't play Cleveland twice this season.

At least McGahee is better.

[sirdizzy]

Denver got Graham and Ramsey as a back up QB, you have to admit Denver seems to be the biggest winner in the free agency market at this point.

Travis Henry, Daniel Graham, Dre Bly, Patrick Ramsey, its going to be a good year next year

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ramsey is a bust so I won't go big on him. If Cutler gets hurt he won't help Denver at all. Graham well he was the weakest of the two N.E TE's but he was the best TE out there so I can't completely argue about that. As for winners I wouldn't go that far into the season gets going.

[jjwr]

I still say the Pats have had the best off-season so far. Considering they were within a few minutes of the SB and they added some great pieces and have already replaced what they lost with cheaper alternatives.

[Yog]

I still say the Pats have had the best off-season so far. Considering they were within a few minutes of the SB and they added some great pieces and have already replaced what they lost with cheaper alternatives.

I hate to admit it, but I think you are right. Some improvements on defense but most important of all:

Randy Moss + Tom Brady = killer passing offense.

They might actually be a SB contender again this year :(

[JMK]

The Pats will be a SB threat as long as the coach and GM are in place. Those 2 are razor sharp, especially the GM.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs brought back Donnie Edwards
http://www.kansascity.com/mld/kansascity/sports/16877906.htm
I really like that move. They should have never let him go in the first place.

[Ryan Pode]

Actually, something I just thought about with Adailus Thomas. On the Ravens, he was one of many great defensive players. Be it Ed Reed, Chris McAlister, Terrell Suggs, Trever Pryce, Kelly Gregg, Bart Scott, or Ray Lewis. While the Patriots do have a good defense, they aren't big in the playmaker super-star sort of path. The have a good front three, Asante Samuel and Rodney Harrison (provided he stays healthy at what, 37?). I think opposing teams will be able to game plan against Thomas far better in New England, than they ever could in Baltimore.

[jjwr]

Its possible and thats one of the risks, its also one of the reasons they signed him because of their lack of playmakers. They don't have the flashy type of player but they are still very effective.

Honestly I'm not worried about another team out game planning the Pats to limit Thomas, especially when you factor in their front 3 which is arguably the best in the league. Also just read they signed Stallworth so they'll be picking up another young LB and probably a Safety in the draft which should help with the plays.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Pats signed Donte Stallworth. That is a big move, I was hoping the Chiefs would sign him.

[jjwr]

Good move by the Pats, they now have a legit deep threat, two dangerous mid range guys in Caldwell & Gaffney and a over the middle freak in Welker.

Got him on the cheap too, basically a 1 year deal for 3.9mil and if he messes up or has issues they just let him go.

[Jedi Master Carr]

His biggest issue can be his injury problems. I don't think he has any off the field problems.

[Ryan Pode]

Stallworth apparently is one drug violation away from a four game suspension.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I didn't know that. I know the Chiefs have two players with DUI issues. What was he caught with before?

[Ryan Pode]

Not sure. It was brought up in the Baltimore Sun, why the Ravens didn't pursue another outside threat and the writer just said he had substance abuse policy violations.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I heard talk on a Chiefs forum about it but I thought it was BS, because I haven't heard anything about him being caught with drugs. Unless he has DUI's which is possible.

[Ryan Pode]

Technically, it's supposed to be confidential until you get a suspension.

[jjwr]

Yup, the NFL is looking into the leak but as one writer put it the fact that neither the player, his agent or the NFL are denying the leak pretty much means its true.

The Pats also just signed Kelley washington, another possible injury risk but also got him on the cheap for a year. Curious to see what he'll do once he's outside of the shadow of their formidable receiving corp.

[Yog]

They have one heck of a receiving corp, thats for sure.

[jjwr]

Sorry I meant that Washington might do well now that he's out of the shadow of the Bengals top trio of Cinco-Ocho, Houshmanzadah and Henry. The Pats WRs could be good but still lots of questions with the group.

[jjwr]

Texans dealt for Matt Schaub. Very suprising that the Falcons let him go, for their sake I hope Vick actually turns into a starting QB worth something.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I like what the new comish has done
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&id=2832237

I think by suspending these punks he sends a strong the message the NFL won't tollerate that kind of behavior any more.

[Yog]

Thats a good thing. One thing I can't stand is athletes who think they can do whatever they want cause they are rich and "superstars". These guys are supposed to be role models, not thugs and morons. I hope he cracks down hard on drug abuse violations and crime in particular.

[Ryan Pode]

Schedules have been released. I like the Raven's schedule. 4 Sunday Night/Monday Night football games. 5 late games. Primetime games include: Bengals, Pittsburgh, Colts, and Patriots.

[JMK]

The part I like best is that the NFL can suspend players regardless if they guity or not. I think THAT is the strongest message. Even if you manage to get away from a DUI charge, the NFL can still suspend you for it. I think that's awesome, and I love the fact that Jones is done for the year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The part I like best is that the NFL can suspend players regardless if they guity or not. I think THAT is the strongest message. Even if you manage to get away from a DUI charge, the NFL can still suspend you for it. I think that's awesome, and I love the fact that Jones is done for the year.

I think it sets a great message and shows why the NFL is the king of professional sports.

[jjwr]

Basically says if you hurt the league with your actions, regardless if you are convicted or not then the League will take something from you.

Pats schedule doesn't look too bad, great bye week at week 9 and 5 primetime games including the big Colts matchup.

[jjwr]

The Draft is only a few days away. As the Pats don't pick till the end of the 1st round its hard to get too excited but I'm really curious to see who they get. Hoping for a Linebacker & Safety, maybe Beason or Poszlusny

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody here anything that the Chiefs might be interested in trading Johnson, if the price is right? I would think it would take a Herschel Walker deal for that to happen though. The chiefs are trading away their players. They just traded away Dante Hall for a 5th round pick to the Rams. Although, I think the Rams got shafted on that deal. Hall has lost most of his skills. He is nothing but an average returner these days and his recieving skills suck. They are still trying to get a pick for Trent Green from Miami, I suspect the Dolphins will give up a 4th rounder for him. I guess the Chiefs are entering rebuilding mode, which they probably have to do considering all the players retiring and the age of some of the players.

[Ryan Pode]

Considering they lost like 4 of 5 offensive linemen starters this past offseason, I'd say yeah it's rebuilding mode.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Considering they lost like 4 of 5 offensive linemen starters this past offseason, I'd say yeah it's rebuilding mode.

They didn't lose 4 out of 5 just two. Jordan Black though sucks. Will Shields is a bigger blow, although I knew that was coming. The other three starters are still there, although I am not sure who will start at one position either Kevin Sampson or Chris Terry. Welbourne is replacing Shields and he is decent. They signed Mcintosh from Miami to replace Black and he can't be any worse than him. They funny thing is they are getting better on defense and will probably have to allow the defense to carry the team.

[Figrin D'an]

It would appear the Browns are getting the most out of the draft thus far, getting Joe Thomas at #3, then making the trade with Dallas to take Brady Quinn at #22. It'll cost them their first round pick next year, but in the short term, it appears to be a big win. Two major upgrades to their offense in the first round.

[sirdizzy]

I feel bad for Quinn just last september people looked at him as a number one pick and to fall all the way to 22 and not even top 10 anymore is huge. Plus he now has to play for the browns.

[Figrin D'an]

The Draft is such a volatile thing, driven so much by rumor and speculation that reality tends to gets lost in the over-analysis. As you said, Quinn was looked at as a Top-5 pick a few months ago, and he slides all the way to #22. Troy Smith, whom looked like a potential first-round pick during the past college season, likely will end up as a 4th-round pick because of one game in which his entire team completely sucked and gave him no help.

Quinn wanted to play for the Browns, they're his hometown team, so I don't really feel too badly for him right now. He didn't go as early as he had hoped, but he at least ended up where he wanted.


I'm not really sure what to make of Green Bay's pick at #16. Harrell has a lot of potential, and I know that had Marshawn Lynch been available the Packers likely would have grabbed him instead... the injuries worry me though. I almost would have preferred that they taken Dwayne Bowe to give Favre another weapon, but we'll see.

[sirdizzy]

I am not to happy with the broncos I mean Jarvis Moss is a great pick and we really needed help at DE big time but they gave away a 3rd and 5th rounder for him when he might have made it to them anyways. I mean moving 4 spots can be huge if your moving from 7 to 3 or 6 to 2 but not from 21 to 17. I mean there was a good chance he could have lasted another 4 picks and the talent drop off from 17 to 21 is not worth 2 picks.

[sirdizzy]

I am impressed with the NE trade at #28, you get San Fran's #1 pick next year which could be in the 28th area at the worst (I mean SF should be much better next year, probably even a playoff team but its unlikely they will be going to the conference championships to make this pick go lower that 28th) so it likely will be a little higher up (15-25 range is my guess) plus you get plus a 4th rounder this year. New England already had picked at 24 so this trade is a great trade for them.

[Yog]

I wonder if Detroit Lions will keep Calvin Johnson or trade him. If they were smart, they would try and get more players for him, because they have bigger problems than the WR position.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Detriot must be starting a relay team :p I am happy about KC's first pick. They finally have a stud WR through the draft. Kennison was getting really old and all they had was Tony Gonzalez catching the ball. I am not sure about the second pick Turk Mcbride seems like a quick DL but he seems a little small to me. I guess he could work in a roation though I wonder if they could have gotten him in the third instead. I hope they get a OT soon. That is there biggest need right now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I like the Chiefs 3rd pick. Tank Tyler is a very good defense takle as long as he behaves. I think a third round pick is worth the risk.

[Yog]

I am happy about KC's first pick. They finally have a stud WR through the draft. Kennison was getting really old and all they had was Tony Gonzalez catching the ball.

That was probably a wise first pick for KC, with Dante Hall gone to the Rams and an aging Kennison (he could get injured, and then what would they do). Their rushing attack is already smoking hot, and they need to improve the passing game. Besides, the most attractive defensive players had gone at that point.

Cleveland Browns. Brilliant draft. They pick an OL first, which they desperately needed. They are ice cold about picking Brady Quinn 23'rd. Browns rather desperately needed a new QB as well. Then they pick a CB about as talented as any in the draft. It's all the right moves to turn the franchise around.

There has also been a lot of speculation on the future of Randy Moss lately. Word is 3 teams have been interested trading for him, including the Patriots, Packers and a third unknown team. Apparently, Favre wants a stud receiver and he likes Moss. Raiders would be smart to trade him, since quite frankly, their team is crap and they need all the help they can get. I would be very surprised if Moss is still an Oakland player when the season starts.

I rather like 49ers draft. There is talk of them trading a 4th round pick for Darell Jackson. I think the Seahawks would be incredible stupid giving DJax away to their division rival. SF could become a force this year.

No one mentioned Alan Branch here yet. He was expected a top 10 pick but went in the second round. Kinda surprising.

I am not sure what the Dolphins are doing picking Ginn and Beck in first and second rounds.

[Ryan Pode]

Patriots trade for Moss. This reinforces my thoughts that Belichick is going to retire as the Patriots are essentially stocked for a run.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

A part of me was really hoping Moss would end up in Green Bay. :(

[Yog]

Patriots trade for Moss. This reinforces my thoughts that Belichick is going to retire as the Patriots are essentially stocked for a run.

Good grief. Tom Brady -> Moss is a dreadful thought. Could be an even more annoying combo than Culpepper -> Moss. It's going to drive me crazy. They are looking more lethal than last year.

[Ryan Pode]

A part of me was really hoping Moss would end up in Green Bay. :(

Me too. Mostly because the Ravens play the Patriots and they will be tough to beat as it is.

[Ryan Pode]

Baltimore Ravens 2009 Opening day offense:


WR: Mark Clayton
TE: Todd Heap
LT: Adam Terry
LG: Jason Brown
C: Chris Chester
RG: Ben Grubbs
RT: Marshall Yanda
TE: Dan Wilcox
WR: Demetrius Williams
QB: Troy Smith
RB: Willis McGahee

9 of 11 taken in 2005-2007 draft.

[Figrin D'an]

A few other oddities...

- Paul Pozluzny dropping to the second round. The concerns about his speed are a little ridiculous. He's a playmaker, and he's as hard working and instinctive as they come. He'll be a solid linebacker for a long time.

- Kevin Kolb going ahead of John Beck, Drew Stanton and Trent Edwards... Kolb had really good numbers in college, but Philly taking him high in the second round was a big reach. Beck should have been the 3rd QB of the board, then Edwards and Stanton, IMO.

- The Colts spending their first two picks on offense. They lost Cato June, Nick Harper, Jason David, Mike Doss and Montae Reagor in the offseason thus far, yet they draft a WR and an OT in rounds 1 and 2. They have taken some defensive players in the later rounds, but this one is really baffling when they had players like Pozluzny, Eric Weddle and Chris Houston or Eric Wright sitting there at the time of those picks.

[Ryan Pode]

A few other oddities...



- The Colts spending their first two picks on offense. They lost Cato June, Nick Harper, Jason David, Mike Doss and Montae Reagor in the offseason thus far, yet they draft a WR and an OT in rounds 1 and 2. They have taken some defensive players in the later rounds, but this one is really baffling when they had players like Pozluzny, Eric Weddle and Chris Houston or Eric Wright sitting there at the time of those picks.

Well last year they won it all without run defense. This year they're trying to win it all without any defense.

[Yog]

Well last year they won it all without run defense. This year they're trying to win it all without any defense.

Sometimes, I wonder what the management at Colts are thinking. If you have a good offense and a shaky defense, it makes sense to upgrade the defense.. yes?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Not sure what the Colts are thinking. I guess they are going back to the pre Dungy Colts and try to outscore everybody. That won't work, of course I thought it would have been impossible for them to repeat anyway. The Patriots look like the favorites now. With Moss and Stallworth at WR, Brady could through for 4000-5000 yards. They are going to be tough. I like what the Chiefs did overall though I am surprised they couldn't get the Green trade worked out, I thought for sure he would go for a 4th rounder. Of course Miami might trade a 2008 pick for him still.

[jjwr]

Lets not forget Welker over the middle and Ben Watson at TE, the Pats are fricken stacked this year! Compared to what they had last year this is just silly.

The Ravens draft record is just crazy, those guys really know what they are doing.

I'm not sure about Belechick, his contract details are private so no one outside of the team really knows what the deal is. I can't say I would be suprised if he left but I don't think he will, if he was desperate to win this year why would he trade a #1 pick into next years draft? He could have found a player to contribute this year. We'll see I guess.

[Ryan Pode]

Just with the big free-agency spending as well as bringing in players who don't fit the mold. Brandon Merriweather and Randy Moss just aren't Patriot players. Even back when Belicheck was in Cleveland with Ozzie Newsome, they didn't bring in guys with off-field issues. It just makes me wonder that if after all these years, maybe he's ready to hang up the hoodie.

[jjwr]

Thats not true, they've had players with issues before. The difference with the Patriots is if they start to cause problems them dump them, they don't let them sit on the roster like the Bengals do/did. We'll see, I wouldn't doubt it but some of the moves he's made are very long term oriented and considering what he's built I can't see him just walking out without a replacement in place ready to take over and I don't see it on the roster. Then again maybe thats why he's been so pissed at Mangini, he was grooming him to take over in NE and he bolted to the Jets.

[sirdizzy]

whats with all the ball washing of the Randy Moss trade, that was a god aweful trade yet I keep hearing how its going to make the Pats win the Super Bowl. Who honestly has bought into Moss being more than a washed up has been trouble maker in several years. At least with owens you still get some talent with all the whining and headaches. Moss is half if not a quarter of what he was in Minn., hes been done for 2 years now and no change of scenery and no Tom Brady is going to change that. The Raiders were just trying to dump an unproductive has been trouble maker and the pats bought it hook line and sinker and everyone is now patting them on the back like they didn't just get screwed by the raiders.

[Jedi Master Carr]

whats with all the ball washing of the Randy Moss trade, that was a god aweful trade yet I keep hearing how its going to make the Pats win the Super Bowl. Who honestly has bought into Moss being more than a washed up has been trouble maker in several years. At least with owens you still get some talent with all the whining and headaches. Moss is half if not a quarter of what he was in Minn., hes been done for 2 years now and no change of scenery and no Tom Brady is going to change that. The Raiders were just trying to dump an unproductive has been trouble maker and the pats bought it hook line and sinker and everyone is now patting them on the back like they didn't just get screwed by the raiders.

The Raiders couldn't get the ball to him. They could have had Jerry Rice and Steve Largent in their primes and they both would have had awful seasons. The Raiders had two awful QBs and neither QB should be allowed playing football in the Arena League. They also had the worse offensive line in the NFL and no running game. The Raiders weren't trying to dump an unproductive player because it wasn't really Moss's fault. They are just decided they are really rebuilding now. I suspect they will trade Jerry Porter next since he has some value. Al Davis has finally woken up that his team was horrible and signing Free Agents wasn't the way to solving the problems. And I hate saying that consider I am probably the biggest Raider hater on this board.

[sirdizzy]

thats crap and you know it, Moss has admitted to not giving %100 and quitting on plaus or even whole games. He basically just took a two year hiatus off, quitting on not one but two seasons. Now you expect him to roll in NE and be their savior when he hasn't played competitive football since 2004. I mean say what you want about Owens but when hes on the field he gives it everything hes got, its just he can't shut his mouth when hes off the field. Moss quits on the field, he quits off the field and he hasn't played in a game that he has tried to make a difference for his team in years. I don't care who was behind center for the raiders, Moss wanted to go to the Raiders so he should have tried to help them instead of sulking and throwing in the towel for 2 years.

You really believe in your heart of hearts that if Steve Leargent or Rice was playing WR for the Raiders they wouldn't have made the most of it and made the quarterback a little better by giving him somebody to throw to (Collins wasn't that bad in NY). No Moss just quit and hung the Qbs out to dry like he did in Minn. as well.

[JMK]

I seem to recall Belichick taking a malcontent named Corey Dillion and getting him to fall in line. That seemed to work out pretty well.
The fact that Moss is willing to restructure his contract tells me that he's going to be prepared to play. He's a freakishly good player when he wants to be and he's so far displayed all the signals that he wants to play. He's not going to screw around in New England. He's 30 now and knows that if he screws this up, he's going to end up playing in the CFL.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Yea, granted Moss might have a 'slow' season since he hasn't really played competitively in the past couple years, he'll still do better. A lot of a recievers ability depends on the person throwing them the ball and the Raiders really had no one. Moss is still good, so I expect him to produce more than he has in the past couple of years.

As for Owens - I don't think you can lead the league in dropped passes and say you were giving a full 100%. Finger injury or not, he's too good (or so they say) to be dropping as many balls as he has.

[Jedi Master Carr]

thats crap and you know it, Moss has admitted to not giving %100 and quitting on plaus or even whole games. He basically just took a two year hiatus off, quitting on not one but two seasons. Now you expect him to roll in NE and be their savior when he hasn't played competitive football since 2004. I mean say what you want about Owens but when hes on the field he gives it everything hes got, its just he can't shut his mouth when hes off the field. Moss quits on the field, he quits off the field and he hasn't played in a game that he has tried to make a difference for his team in years. I don't care who was behind center for the raiders, Moss wanted to go to the Raiders so he should have tried to help them instead of sulking and throwing in the towel for 2 years.

You really believe in your heart of hearts that if Steve Leargent or Rice was playing WR for the Raiders they wouldn't have made the most of it and made the quarterback a little better by giving him somebody to throw to (Collins wasn't that bad in NY). No Moss just quit and hung the Qbs out to dry like he did in Minn. as well.


Collins was that bad in NY. He led the league in INT twice. He was horrible and driven out of town. The Giants fans hated him during that last season. The Raiders were horrible last year. That QB they had couldn't complete a pass to Superman he is that bad. He shouldn't even be in the NFL that is how bad he is. The offense line was horrible and Art Shell did one of the worse coaching jobs that I have ever seen. Believe me it wasn't all Moss. It takes 11players to win the NFL. This isn't the NBA where one man can win a game. In the NFL Moss couldn't do it by himself. I have to say he did just give up on them but it was because they sucked. He does seem to not care when his team isn't playing well. He did the same thing in Minnesota. But it wasn't his fault that they were awful. They needed a new coach, a new Offensive line and a new QB to be any good. They gave up Moss for two reasons, he didn't want to play there and they are in the process of rebuilding. Still, the franchise is a mess and has been that way since the lost the SB. They had to recover from all of that dead salary they had on the books. Finally, Moss isn't being asked to be the Savior of NE. Brady really has that role. He is being asked to show up and catch the ball and that is all. If he even plays like his 2005 self (I think he did catch like 70 balls that year), they will be fine.

[jjwr]

Theres also no pressure on Moss, lets not forget the Patriots were about 2 minutes away from the Superbowl last year and had already had the best off-season in the NFL. They were Superbowl favorites before this trade so you can't say adding Moss hurts that.

I'm very curious to see if he will turn it around, there is no question he gave up on the Raiders. I can understand his feelings on the matter and see why he did it. I don't agree with it but I do see why, when your paid that much you should play regardless of how much the rest of the team sucks. There really is no excuse for it. He now has a chance at redemption, he is joining arguably the best team in the league with by far the best QB he's ever had throwing to him. If he really wants to win like he says then this is his best chance.

Imagine this, Pats go 3 WR set with a TE and a RB in the backfield. Moss and Stallworth on the outside, Wes Welker in the slot, Maroney in the backfield and Ben Watson as the TE. Who do you guard? This offense is now going to be just as scary as the Colts with playmakers at every position. They had a patchwork offense last year and look what they did and now they have are stacked and it will be a lot of fun to watch. Watson was their best receiver last year and he was the TE and didn't really handle it well, now he will be a 2nd/3rd option and his athelticism over the middle will really hurt opponents.

Comparing what they have now to last year is just silly and considering what they almost did is even sillier. I know Brady gets a lot of hype and praise but the past few years he has been very deserving of MVP consdieration, he has done so much more with less than just about anyone else but Manning always got the votes cause of the numbers even though the team around him was stacked. Well now lets see what Brady does with a similar cast.

Oh and lets not forget a great defense with got a few nice new playmakers of their own. Arizona isn't guaranteed but unless something goes horribly wrong they've got a great shot at it.

[sirdizzy]

I looked up Moss's numbers and its actually been 3 years since he has tried and had a good season. He quit on the Vikings his last year in 2004 as well which led to them trading him. He got 63 passes in 2005 thats a far cry from the 111 he caught in 2003.

And comparing Dillon to Moss is crazy. Moss has been trouble since High School, Dillon had a couple years where he got frustrated with the bungles and became a malcontent, he doesn't have the 15 years of headaches moss has been.

[JMK]

So why did he restructure his deal then?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I remember hearing Dillion had a lot of issues in Cinci. I had read he had connections with drugs and stuff. I don't think Moss will hurt NE at all.

[JMK]

And if he does pull his act in NE, he'll be benched and then cut. His career will be next to finished by then. Sure someone will take a chance on him but he won't be important ever again.

[jjwr]

The Patriots have almost nothing invested in him, they can cut him and move on. Even without him their WR's are light years ahead of where they were last year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep exactly, NE can't really lose.

[sirdizzy]

they can lose that the problem nobody sees that. NE built 3 championships on chemistry and team play, I mean they maybe had 1 or 2 probowlers and that was it but because they played so well as a team, were so well coached they owned the nfl. Now you bring in a team cancer for the chance he may remember how to play football something he hasn't done since 2003 and risk ruining that team chemistry. I mean they ditched Branch because he wouldn't play along and wanted a little more money, after the 6 game Moss on his best behavior wears off and he starts to erode the team chemistry of NE, how then can you say they have nothing to lose. They won without big name cry baby players, they ruled the league without them the moment they stumble all of a sudden they are going after the trouble makers it insane. I mean they don't need Moss to win the super bowl, their offseason was awesome and they answered most of their questions with it (including WR with Welker and Stallworth) why risk it all on a cancer player

[Jedi Master Carr]

Maybe he will stay in line. I can think of major players who did. Dennis Rodiman comes to mind. People called him a cancer before he went to the Bulls and he didn't do anything wrong in Chicago.

[JMK]

Dizzy, you still haven't given a good reason why Moss had his contract restructured if he wasn't serious about behaving himself and being a good teammate...

[sirdizzy]

he reconstructed his contract because it got him out of oakland, I mean as selfish and standoffish as he is that doesn't mean he's stupid. Its a grandoise gesture that means nothing, I mean part of him likes to win and gloat it over opponents, he was always less of a cancer when the vikings were winning. So the thing is if the pats are even a little more effective on offense he gets all the credit (not stallworth or welker but finally giving Brady some targets to throw at) and he knows this. Plus a part of him wants to win a championship, I mean for a selfish cry baby player legacy is always important to them. His legacy is just that a talented cancer that could never win because hes a cancer. So he helps the pats out a little bit, fixes his legacy, maybe wins a championship and sacrifices a little money to do so, he's not stupid like I said.

Problem is the first time something goes wrong he'll implode, look at owens it only took him one month to go from a god in philly to a complete jack tard again. And Billicheck won't put up with it, I mean the more structure in dallas and parcells never really helped owens and neither will it help Moss. He's one bad game, one big loss away from being the sulky cancer that Moss is, the only question is when that game will come.

[Jedi Master Carr]

he reconstructed his contract because it got him out of oakland, I mean as selfish and standoffish as he is that doesn't mean he's stupid. Its a grandoise gesture that means nothing, I mean part of him likes to win and gloat it over opponents, he was always less of a cancer when the vikings were winning. So the thing is if the pats are even a little more effective on offense he gets all the credit (not stallworth or welker but finally giving Brady some targets to throw at) and he knows this. Plus a part of him wants to win a championship, I mean for a selfish cry baby player legacy is always important to them. His legacy is just that a talented cancer that could never win because hes a cancer. So he helps the pats out a little bit, fixes his legacy, maybe wins a championship and sacrifices a little money to do so, he's not stupid like I said.

Problem is the first time something goes wrong he'll implode, look at owens it only took him one month to go from a god in philly to a complete jack tard again. And Billicheck won't put up with it, I mean the more structure in dallas and parcells never really helped owens and neither will it help Moss. He's one bad game, one big loss away from being the sulky cancer that Moss is, the only question is when that game will come.

Acutally it took Owens about a year before he reverted to his former self. He actually behaved in his first year in Philly. He didn't go bad till after they lost the SB. I think that is what started it there. I think Moss will behave for a year at the least. If the Pats lose the SB or in the playoffs then you will see him revert to his former self. Also as I pointed out there have been other deemed cancers and teams took chances on them Dennis Rodman, Gary Shetfield, and even Manny Ramierez to a degree all come to mind.

[JMK]

he reconstructed his contract because it got him out of oakland, I mean as selfish and standoffish as he is that doesn't mean he's stupid. Its a grandoise gesture that means nothing, I mean part of him likes to win and gloat it over opponents, he was always less of a cancer when the vikings were winning. So the thing is if the pats are even a little more effective on offense he gets all the credit (not stallworth or welker but finally giving Brady some targets to throw at) and he knows this. Plus a part of him wants to win a championship, I mean for a selfish cry baby player legacy is always important to them. His legacy is just that a talented cancer that could never win because hes a cancer. So he helps the pats out a little bit, fixes his legacy, maybe wins a championship and sacrifices a little money to do so, he's not stupid like I said.

Problem is the first time something goes wrong he'll implode, look at owens it only took him one month to go from a god in philly to a complete jack tard again. And Billicheck won't put up with it, I mean the more structure in dallas and parcells never really helped owens and neither will it help Moss. He's one bad game, one big loss away from being the sulky cancer that Moss is, the only question is when that game will come.

So if Moss cares about his legacy, he's going to shut his trap and play football, right? If he was 100% self-centered (I peg him at 75% self centered) then he wouldn't care about winning, all he would want is his stats and his money.

And I'll bet the first time he starts causing a stir for negative reasons, he will be benched and silenced. He's not the only viable option on offense for the Pats. They've got playmakers everywhere, and he's smart enough to see that. Everywhere else he played, it was him and the QB. He's not going to get away with his old antics because he's not the only real threat.

[jjwr]

Again the Pats don't have anything to lose, they have already said the first incident with him and he will be cut. Whether its in training camp or game 6. With or without him they are much improved. They dropped Doug Gabriel last year after about 10 games because he wasn't fitting in and they will do the same to Moss if he causes problems.

[JMK]

It's been a relatively quiet offseason, but there's some NFL news to talk about.

First off, RIP to the family of Marquise Hill, the Pats DE that died in a jetboat accident.
Terrible shame to lose your life while on vacation in the prime of your life.

Then we get to the juicy stuff.

Mike Vick. This guy's reputation is going down faster than a Thai hooker during shore leave. How far back does this guy's checkered history go now? Just in the past year he's been caught giving his own fans the one-fingered salute, had a hidden compartment in his drinking bottle...I wonder what that could have been for? And now he's all but guaranteed to be one of the poster boys of dogfighting. *IF* he gets nailed for dog fighting, I hope the commissioner suspends him forever. Ok, I'm exaggerating, but he deserves a whole season for being involved in such a disgusting thing. I'm getting so sick and tired of these punks and thugs ruining the name of the league. I nearly puked last week when that MORON (who I previously thought was on ok guy) Clinton Portis said dog fighting was no big deal and what people decide to do with their dogs is their own business and nobody else's. What a pathetic statement from someone who I now view as a 100% LOSER. Anybody who doesn't see the disgusting nature of dog fighting (or **** fighting for that matter) should probably move in with Vick and get himself arrested. I just can't get over how littered with jerks the NFL has become. I really hope Goodell throws around some more hefty suspensions.

[Jedi Master Carr]

This dog fighting thing could be bigger. Certain people say there are other NFL athletes invovled in this. Who knows Portis could have been one of those fools.

[JMK]

Maybe they should take Vick, and whoever is proven to be involved, beat them, whip them and neglect them, then put both of them in a cage with daggers and let them fight each other to the death. Absolute scum.

[Rutabaga]

I used to think Michael Vick was a decent guy and a decent quarterback. I was shocked to see his name connected with this. Now his reputation is totally trashed as far as I'm concerned.

But Clinton Portis...geez, that one totally caught me by surprise. The guy who I thought was a fun-loving guy with a good sense of humor as well as being a good player turned out to be Jekyll and Hyde. He's also completely destroyed his reputation in my opinion. I know the ASPCA is really going after him and the NFL as a whole over this whole situation, and I support them fully in that. Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane, and whoever is involved with it and doesn't think there's a problem with that is just downright stupid. :shakefist

[Jedi Master Carr]

I used to think Michael Vick was a decent guy and a decent quarterback. I was shocked to see his name connected with this. Now his reputation is totally trashed as far as I'm concerned.

But Clinton Portis...geez, that one totally caught me by surprise. The guy who I thought was a fun-loving guy with a good sense of humor as well as being a good player turned out to be Jekyll and Hyde. He's also completely destroyed his reputation in my opinion. I know the ASPCA is really going after him and the NFL as a whole over this whole situation, and I support them fully in that. Dog fighting is cruel and inhumane, and whoever is involved with it and doesn't think there's a problem with that is just downright stupid. :shakefist

Well they will investigate of course, but I don't think ASPCA should go after the NFL that much. They can't control all of these players. The most they can do is suspend them like they did with Pac Man Jones. And I am not sure if they can get the same punishment as him. Jones has assaulted people, been druink and disordarly, and done several other criminal acts. He had a long past. The most they could do to any of these guys is probably a 4 game suspension.

[JMK]

Plus, let's face it, the NFL does not want to suspend Vick. He's a huge draw for the league and people pay to see him alone. People tune in to see what he's going to do. It's bad business to get rid of the guy if they don't have air-tight proof against him. I don't expect them to push too hard to get that evidence. I doubt Vick will see any discipline at all, even though I desperately hope I'm wrong. I hope he gets suspended big time, or even locked up where he belongs.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Plus, let's face it, the NFL does not want to suspend Vick. He's a huge draw for the league and people pay to see him alone. People tune in to see what he's going to do. It's bad business to get rid of the guy if they don't have air-tight proof against him. I don't expect them to push too hard to get that evidence. I doubt Vick will see any discipline at all, even though I desperately hope I'm wrong. I hope he gets suspended big time, or even locked up where he belongs.

I think he would have to get charged to get any kind of suspension. They can do anything yet. Also the new GM wouldn't be scared, IMO. I think if they had the proof he do it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Trent Green finally got traded to Miami yesterday
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2894921

I think it works out for both teams. KC gets another pick to give them 10 next year in an effort to rebuil and Miami gets a proven QB.

[Yog]

On the note of Miami and QB, Culpepper is likely to be traded.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Traded or released, Culpepper might have little trade value. I think his injury makes it tough. You could say Green got a 5th-4th round pick but he is healthy. Nobody knows when Culpepper will be.

[Yog]

Yeah, there are too many uncertainties about Culpepper.

Btw, I hope we are going to play a swfans fantasy league this year. I have been looking forward to it :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I plan on starting the league again.

[Ryan Pode]

Yeah, there are too many uncertainties about Culpepper.

Btw, I hope we are going to play a swfans fantasy league this year. I have been looking forward to it :)

That's like late July/Early August talk. Jeez. Don't get me excited.

[Yog]

That's like late July/Early August talk. Jeez. Don't get me excited.

Personally, I am in full swing with the fantasy season already. My first draft is in a few days.

[Yog]

Chris Henry is at it again.. :x

http://www.wcpo.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=333af96c-8c24-4d44-9ed4-0c676af92d8d

Bengals' wide-receiver Chris Henry is accused of breaking the law again.

9News has learned that Florence police interviewed Henry, along with Bengal Reggie McNeal on Tuesday. The two football pros may have been involved in assaulting a 16-year-old boy. The family of the victim shared their story exclusively with 9News Tuesday night. They talked off-camera because they say they're not ready to publicly show their faces. But they are angry, alleging that Bengals players Chris Henry, along with a few others, beat the 16-year-old so severely that he had to be treated at the hospital for his injuries.

"It's very obvious," said Captain Linny Cloyd, of the Florence police department. "I've seen the young man. There's no doubt he was assaulted. At this point we're still trying to figure out who is who – where they were." Police say the 16-year-old and an 18-year-old friend were walking along Wetherington Boulevard near Mt. Zion Road just after 11 p.m. Friday night when, they say a black Navigator or Escalade pulled up next to them.

According to the police report, a white male jumped out and started punching the 16-year-old in the face. "From that, the victim tells us another gentleman got out of the vehicle the same vehicle and in their attempt to get away, was shoved to the ground by this African American gentleman," said Cloyd. The teen identified that man as Bengals receiver Chris Henry, and says receiver Reggie McNeill was also in the vehicle.

The teen also alleges that they were throwing beer bottles at him as he tried to run away.

"Go away, we don't want to talk to you."

9News tried to talk to Chris Henry Tuesday night, but no one at his house wanted to talk to us. Henry lives just a few blocks away from where police say the assault happened. The victim's family tells 9News that the teen knows Henry and knows his vehicle because he lives in the neighborhood and was friends with Henry's younger brother.

Police questioned Henry Tuesday afternoon and are taking this allegation very seriously. "We have been in contact with Mr. Henry and Mr. McNeal as to their whereabouts," said Capt. Cloyd. "They deny being in the area, or knowing this gentleman." Police say they are still following leads and their investigation is on-going.

As for Chris Henry, he's been arrested four times in the past year-and-a-half for marijuana and gun charges, drunk driving and providing alcohol to female minors. His run-ins with the law got him an eight-game, unpaid suspension this upcoming season. If these allegation are true, this could spell the end of Chris Henry's career.

NFL commissioner Roger Goodell has said that Henry would be banished for life if there were any more mis-steps.

[JMK]

Chris Henry is a solid citizen and a good role model. He should be treated with dignity and respect. The same dignity and respect that she shows people of all ages and genders.

Sincerely,
Ron Mexico

[Jedi Master Carr]

Chris Henry is a solid citizen and a good role model. He should be treated with dignity and respect. The same dignity and respect that she shows people of all ages and genders.

Sincerely,
Ron Mexico

LOL that was great. Oh I am curious what do you think about Trent Green? Truthly, I think he will help your team and probably be the best QB you have had. He fits your team better than in the direction that the Chiefs are going in.

[JMK]

Green will be a nice caretaker until he gets too old to play and the Dolphins don't find a suitable replacement. It's too bad he won't have anyone to protect his mushy, concussion-prone brain, nor will he have anyone to throw to, but I still think he will be able to at least keep us in games long enough for the defense to win it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Green will be a nice caretaker until he gets too old to play and the Dolphins don't find a suitable replacement. It's too bad he won't have anyone to protect his mushy, concussion-prone brain, nor will he have anyone to throw to, but I still think he will be able to at least keep us in games long enough for the defense to win it.

Well you have Chambers who isn't bad. They couldn't get the ball to him last season. Protecting Green will be the bigger key. I think he is a good stop gap guy until they find somebody for the future.

[JMK]

Chambers would never get involved until late in the game. At least that's the impression that I have. By the time he was making catches, the game was out of reach. He needs another big receiver on the other side of the field to help him out. He's only about 5'11" and can be covered quite easily. McMichael, who some say was overrated anyway is gone...there really is no one left that is dangerous. I pray that Green can just manage the game well enough to put up 17 points per game and hope the defense plays well again. Cam Cameron is a good offensive game planner but he has very little to work with.

[Yog]

Time for another of those awesome Bengals cop dramas. I was beginning to wonder when the next one would pop up! If they hurry up, they might make a couple more this week!


Quincy Wilson-RB- Bengals Jun. 18 - 2:00 pm et


Bengals RB Quincy Wilson was reportedly arrested over the weekend in Huntington, West Virginia for disorderly conduct.

The fifth-stringer was a member in a wedding party celebrating at a nightclub. The groom and bride were arrested along with Wilson after allegedly refusing to leave the club when police tried to separate a crowd of people.
Source: WSAZ 3 Charleston

:lol

The Bungles.. err.. Bengals are ranking 'prominently' on this list with 25 arrests!
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/nfl/arrests.html

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Pac Man Jones is finished
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2910497

The Titans should release him and get their money back (their is a clause in his contract, I am sure that deals with stuff like this). Besides if he gets convicted of those charges he will be in jail for 5-10 years.

[Yog]

Is it just me, or do NFL players get into a lot of legal trouble? Is this some kinda culture or something? 'Da gangsta football playah'? :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

Is it just me, or do NFL players get into a lot of legal trouble? Is this some kinda culture or something? 'Da gangsta football playah'? :rolleyes

They hang around the wrong people. It is the same in the NBA as well. It just doesn't get as much publicity.

[JMK]

The problem with the NBA is if they were to really crack down there, especially on the weed issue, the entire league would be shut down because 75% of the players would be wearing orange jumpsuits! :lol

As for Pacman, I really hope he's given a lifetime ban from the league and gets sent to prison. This guy is a menace to society and he just. does. not. get. it. The Commissioner laid it out very simply for him last month: "clean up your act, stay away from your so called friends, and you *might* get back in after 10 games". Instead, Jones heads out with the same pals, and once trouble breaks out, he runs away as if to pretend he was never there. More than him not "getting it", it appears as though he doesn't want to "get it". He's happy being a gangsta with his thug friends and blowing the earnings he's made in his short, short career. Someone else should tell him that at this rate, his earnings will last him about 3 years and then he'll be in the street.

Actually, come to think of it, he'll probably end up in the CFL. :rolleyes

[Jedi Master Carr]

The problem with the NBA is if they were to really crack down there, especially on the weed issue, the entire league would be shut down because 75% of the players would be wearing orange jumpsuits! :lol

As for Pacman, I really hope he's given a lifetime ban from the league and gets sent to prison. This guy is a menace to society and he just. does. not. get. it. The Commissioner laid it out very simply for him last month: "clean up your act, stay away from your so called friends, and you *might* get back in after 10 games". Instead, Jones heads out with the same pals, and once trouble breaks out, he runs away as if to pretend he was never there. More than him not "getting it", it appears as though he doesn't want to "get it". He's happy being a gangsta with his thug friends and blowing the earnings he's made in his short, short career. Someone else should tell him that at this rate, his earnings will last him about 3 years and then he'll be in the street.

Actually, come to think of it, he'll probably end up in the CFL. :rolleyes
Or the Prison football league :p With the chargest against him he will be serving some serious time.

[JMK]

Are you kidding? He's going to get off free as a bird. Maybe a short sentence followed by probation or house arrest, but nothing serious. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of him.

I still shake my head in disbelief that he's this dumb. Or maybe Mike Vick has been paying him to get in trouble so that all the attention remains focused on Pacman.
Imagine that? Pacman's crime spree is being bankrolled by Mike Vick. Start the rumor mill! Seriously though, is anyone else benefitting as much from Pacman's troubles more than Ronnie Mexico?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Are you kidding? He's going to get off free as a bird. Maybe a short sentence followed by probation or house arrest, but nothing serious. I'm sure we haven't heard the last of him.

I still shake my head in disbelief that he's this dumb. Or maybe Mike Vick has been paying him to get in trouble so that all the attention remains focused on Pacman.
Imagine that? Pacman's crime spree is being bankrolled by Mike Vick. Start the rumor mill! Seriously though, is anyone else benefitting as much from Pacman's troubles more than Ronnie Mexico?

Well I was thinking he go to jail for two years or something. I mean the max he could get is 10 although I don't see that happening. Of course there is this mess in Atlanta if he gets charged in that then he might go to jail for a while.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Vick was indicted today.
http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slug=ap-vickindictment&prov=ap&type=lgns
So how will he get suspended? I bet like 2-4 games. He could still face jail time. He could serve 6 years but that is the max and I doubt he would get that.

[JMK]

I think he's going down for 8 games. At least that's my hope. Actually, no, my hope is that he gets suspended for 8 years but that won't happen. Because he's Michael Vick and means everything to the Falcons, I'm sure he will get a relatively light suspension. If he's convicted of anything, then all bets are off. I personally hope this loser somehow loses his spot in the league.

[Rutabaga]

Vick's indictment was very good news indeed. I hope he gets the proverbial book thrown right at him. :shakefist

[Jedi Master Carr]

I guess it will depend on how the trial goes. Man Vick is such a moron it isn't funny.

[Ryan Pode]

I wonder if the Vikings will sign Culpepper in the off-chance he recovers.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I doubt it. I am not sure who will sign him. LOL watch the Falcons do it because of the Vick mess.

[Jedieb]

Right now Roger Goodell won't suspend Vick because he's not a repeat offender and he hasn't been convicted of anything. I'm not saying this is the 'right' thing to do, it's just the only thing he can do within the agreement the commisioner and the player's union made. The trial probably won't start until after the season so Vick is going to play this year. Now, if he's convicted, then the commisioner and the league will certainly throw the book at him. Even if he doesn't get any jail time, he's bound to miss several games if not an entire season. But frankly, I'd be STUNNED if he's convicted. We've seen that money can buy you hung juries and aquittals. The Feds have a lot of work cut out for them.

[JMK]

I just hope that the Feds came forward with the indictment knowing that they have iron-clad proof that he's involved, knew about it, and took part in it. I don't care what anyone says, Vick has owned that property since 2001 and claims that he didn't know what was going on there? Give me a break. I truly hope he gets banished from society.

[Figrin D'an]

Regardless of the outcome of Vick's indictment or disciplinary measures from the commissioner's office, there's a good chance that Vick isn't going to be a Falcon for much longer. He doesn't fit Bobby Petrino's system (and we know Petrino would love to draft his former pupil Brian Brohm in next year's draft) and he's already on thin ice with Arthur Blank. Unless Vick has a career year this upcoming season and leads them to a division title and a deep playoff run, I'm not going to be surprised if Atlanta starts looking for trade options. If he were to be convicted, even without any jail time, he's done in Atlanta for sure.

[Ryan Pode]

So, my school's cable provider just dropped CSPAN and CSPAN-2 for CSTV and NFL network. Hooray.

[Jedieb]

You'll be in heaven next season Ryan. :thumbup

[Ryan Pode]

You'll be in heaven next season Ryan. :thumbup

I'm in heaven now. With nothing new on tv. I'm all alone in my apartment doing summer school. And so, I turn on the NFL network tonight. And what do I see? Raiders @ Broncos, Sunday Night football where Raiders won in the last two minutes. In the snow.

[Rutabaga]

My cable system recently moved the NFL Network over to their "sports package," so I would have to pay extra to get it. Not gonna bother, but it still sucks.

Re: the Vick situation, this video is hilarious, the guy gets his just desserts :lol:

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[Ryan Pode]

My cable system recently moved the NFL Network over to their "sports package," so I would have to pay extra to get it. Not gonna bother, but it still sucks.

Re: the Vick situation, this video is hilarious, the guy gets his just desserts :lol:


That video made me laugh.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think Vick will play again with the Falcolns. His trial will be in the middle of the season and the commish is being very tough about this. I think either he or the Falcolns will suspended him for the rest of the season. The Falcolns will then probably cut him after the season is over. If the trial goes really badly for Vick his career could be over. Man what an idiot to blow his career over this. Oh and with Joey Harrington as their QB, the Falcolns will suck.

[Yog]

I doubt Vick will play NFL games any more. Maybe Falcons will take Culpepper now.

[JMK]

I hope that Vick goes to jail and that his career is over, but I can just see this high-powered lawyer he's hired getting him off, just like he got Jason Richardson off the hook after he blasted his limo driver in the gut with his shotgun.

Either way, he's finished with the Falcons, but if he does get off and can return to the league somebody will take a chance on him. I don't think Goodell can suspend him if he's found not guilty. That would send a pretty terrible message.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I hope that Vick goes to jail and that his career is over, but I can just see this high-powered lawyer he's hired getting him off, just like he got Jason Richardson off the hook after he blasted his limo driver in the gut with his shotgun.

Either way, he's finished with the Falcons, but if he does get off and can return to the league somebody will take a chance on him. I don't think Goodell can suspend him if he's found not guilty. That would send a pretty terrible message.


I think he might suspend him for the year because of the mess of the trial, but beyond that I think it will depend on what happens in trial. Have to see what kind of case the prosecution has. If the evidence is really good, Vick might not be able to get off even if he could get Clarence Darrow back from the grave.
As for other NFL news, it looks like Priest Holmes is trying to make a comeback. Not sure what chance he has or if even can stay healthy. Of course it could be an attempt to make Larry Johnson sign a contract. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I saw this today and was happy to hear it
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2977272

I didn't know about the gambling angle, if they can prove that they can ban him for life.

[Ryan Pode]

I've generally been ignoring the Michael Vick stuff. I pretty much it's gone from bad to worse and I'll care again when I see "BREAKING NEWS" all over espn.com or SI.com. Now, the Pac-Man stuff is always amusing at how pathetic he's become.

[Yog]

"The indictment said dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other brutal means."

:x

[Jedi Master Carr]

"The indictment said dogs that lost fights or fared poorly in test fights were sometimes executed by hanging, electrocution or other brutal means."

:x

Yeah that is just disgusting. It was awful the things that were done to those dogs.

[Ryan Pode]

It'll be interesting when I have to go to the Matador, which is a local sports bar here in Newport News, to watch the Ravens games. I'm definately going to keep my ears open for the local opinion of Michael Vick. These people worshipped him as of last season, dunno about now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It'll be interesting when I have to go to the Matador, which is a local sports bar here in Newport News, to watch the Ravens games. I'm definately going to keep my ears open for the local opinion of Michael Vick. These people worshipped him as of last season, dunno about now.

Not sure why they would worship him.

[Ryan Pode]

It'll be interesting when I have to go to the Matador, which is a local sports bar here in Newport News, to watch the Ravens games. I'm definately going to keep my ears open for the local opinion of Michael Vick. These people worshipped him as of last season, dunno about now.

Not sure why they would worship him.

He's the hometown hero. Was amazing at Warwick High, then Vtech.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It'll be interesting when I have to go to the Matador, which is a local sports bar here in Newport News, to watch the Ravens games. I'm definately going to keep my ears open for the local opinion of Michael Vick. These people worshipped him as of last season, dunno about now.

Not sure why they would worship him.

He's the hometown hero. Was amazing at Warwick High, then Vtech.
Ah okay that makes sense.

[Ryan Pode]

Yeah, it took Marcus Vick pointing a gun at some kids at a McDonalds to get people to not gush over him a lot.

[JMK]

Ahhhh...those Vick boys. Class individuals. I'm glad someone took them aside at some point and told them that they were about to step in to the national spotlight as a professional athlete and that maybe once the millions started rolling in they should probably act a little differently and run with a different crowd? Ugh...

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Vick took the deal.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2983121

He really had no choice because the Feds were going to charge him with Rico which could have gotten him 25 years in prison. He will probably at least get one year in jail and he could get a lifetime suspension in the NFL. He might want to get use to playing in Canada right now.

[Jedieb]

I've been aware of Michael Vick since he signed his letter of intent for VaTech. Even back then, Tech fans were going insane over this kid. What's happened to him is really quite stunning. It's one of the biggest falls from graces that we've ever seen an athlete have. The details of the plea will come out next Monday and they're going to be just brutal. Alot of people have been deluding themselves with just how guilty Vick is. I got the sense that many Vick supporters believed that even if Vick was guilty, he was just a guy writing checks or doing favors for long time friends. They're are details leaking out that Vick actually PHYSICALLY took part in the executions of these dogs, specifically the drowning of dogs. If he only gets 12 months he should consider himself lucky, he could very well get 18 or more.

Vick is HUGE in Atlanta and his support in the African American community is solid, but that level of support has got to take a hit now. Look, there are legit reasons for blacks to have knee jerk reaction of support for Vick, but I just don't understand how you can keep backing someone or believing that he's being railroaded after he pleads out and admits the details of what he's done. I think he has the right to resume his career after he's eating his plate of crap and done his time. But unless you're a blood relative, I don't see how you can just unconditionally accept Vick and delude yourself into thinking that he hasn't done anything that bad, that people are making a mountain out of a molehill. And there are people out there, both black and white, who think that Vick is being railroaded. I just don't get it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I've been aware of Michael Vick since he signed his letter of intent for VaTech. Even back then, Tech fans were going insane over this kid. What's happened to him is really quite stunning. It's one of the biggest falls from graces that we've ever seen an athlete have. The details of the plea will come out next Monday and they're going to be just brutal. Alot of people have been deluding themselves with just how guilty Vick is. I got the sense that many Vick supporters believed that even if Vick was guilty, he was just a guy writing checks or doing favors for long time friends. They're are details leaking out that Vick actually PHYSICALLY took part in the executions of these dogs, specifically the drowning of dogs. If he only gets 12 months he should consider himself lucky, he could very well get 18 or more.

Vick is HUGE in Atlanta and his support in the African American community is solid, but that level of support has got to take a hit now. Look, there are legit reasons for blacks to have knee jerk reaction of support for Vick, but I just don't understand how you can keep backing someone or believing that he's being railroaded after he pleads out and admits the details of what he's done. I think he has the right to resume his career after he's eating his plate of crap and done his time. But unless you're a blood relative, I don't see how you can just unconditionally accept Vick and delude yourself into thinking that he hasn't done anything that bad, that people are making a mountain out of a molehill. And there are people out there, both black and white, who think that Vick is being railroaded. I just don't get it.


Yeah its awful. still the NFL could ban him for life because of the gambling aspects of the case. They might not do that, but I bet he never again plays for Atlanta.

[Jedieb]

I agree, the NFL could very well ban him for life. I think he'll get a 1-3 year ban, the Falcons will eventually release him and try to get BACK some of the money they've already paid him. Contracts aren't guaranteed in the NFL. I believe Vick had close to $100M left to make on that contract of his. He's never going to see that money. When he tries to resume his career he may very well find himself playing in Canada.

[Rutabaga]

I've been aware of Michael Vick since he signed his letter of intent for VaTech. Even back then, Tech fans were going insane over this kid. What's happened to him is really quite stunning. It's one of the biggest falls from graces that we've ever seen an athlete have. The details of the plea will come out next Monday and they're going to be just brutal. Alot of people have been deluding themselves with just how guilty Vick is. I got the sense that many Vick supporters believed that even if Vick was guilty, he was just a guy writing checks or doing favors for long time friends. They're are details leaking out that Vick actually PHYSICALLY took part in the executions of these dogs, specifically the drowning of dogs. If he only gets 12 months he should consider himself lucky, he could very well get 18 or more.

Vick is HUGE in Atlanta and his support in the African American community is solid, but that level of support has got to take a hit now. Look, there are legit reasons for blacks to have knee jerk reaction of support for Vick, but I just don't understand how you can keep backing someone or believing that he's being railroaded after he pleads out and admits the details of what he's done. I think he has the right to resume his career after he's eating his plate of crap and done his time. But unless you're a blood relative, I don't see how you can just unconditionally accept Vick and delude yourself into thinking that he hasn't done anything that bad, that people are making a mountain out of a molehill. And there are people out there, both black and white, who think that Vick is being railroaded. I just don't get it.

I swear to you right now, if I see Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson on TV moaning about how Vick was railroaded or some other BS like that, I'll vomit. :x

Vick needs to be kicked off the Falcons and banned from the NFL. And all commercial endorsements are down the tubes as well. I sure hope he planned well for retirement :shakefist.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I've been aware of Michael Vick since he signed his letter of intent for VaTech. Even back then, Tech fans were going insane over this kid. What's happened to him is really quite stunning. It's one of the biggest falls from graces that we've ever seen an athlete have. The details of the plea will come out next Monday and they're going to be just brutal. Alot of people have been deluding themselves with just how guilty Vick is. I got the sense that many Vick supporters believed that even if Vick was guilty, he was just a guy writing checks or doing favors for long time friends. They're are details leaking out that Vick actually PHYSICALLY took part in the executions of these dogs, specifically the drowning of dogs. If he only gets 12 months he should consider himself lucky, he could very well get 18 or more.

Vick is HUGE in Atlanta and his support in the African American community is solid, but that level of support has got to take a hit now. Look, there are legit reasons for blacks to have knee jerk reaction of support for Vick, but I just don't understand how you can keep backing someone or believing that he's being railroaded after he pleads out and admits the details of what he's done. I think he has the right to resume his career after he's eating his plate of crap and done his time. But unless you're a blood relative, I don't see how you can just unconditionally accept Vick and delude yourself into thinking that he hasn't done anything that bad, that people are making a mountain out of a molehill. And there are people out there, both black and white, who think that Vick is being railroaded. I just don't get it.

I swear to you right now, if I see Al Sharpton or Jesse Jackson on TV moaning about how Vick was railroaded or some other BS like that, I'll vomit. :x

Vick needs to be kicked off the Falcons and banned from the NFL. And all commercial endorsements are down the tubes as well. I sure hope he planned well for retirement :shakefist.

I doubt they will. They have actually been very quite on Vick.

[JMK]

I hope Goodell bans him. But he won't. If Vick serves a year, I think he'll get 1 more year from the league. He'll get a second chance in the NFL from a desperate GM. Of course, a second chance depends on how well his PR campaign goes. I will NEVER, EVER believe a word out of Vick's mouth about how sorry he is. He is NOT sorry. He is sorry that he got caught. You don't just go around getting thrills from bloodsport, kill the underperformers and then issue a heartfelt apology once you get caught. If the investigation never led to Vick, he'd be out there right now still killing dogs. Vick is a disgusting human and does not deserve the privelege of playing in the NFL ever again. As for the CFL, they've instituted the "Ricky Williams rule" where they cannot take on a player who has been suspended by the NFL. I don't know if that condition changes if he's banned for life, but playing in Canada isn't a foregone conclusion. Besides, the polls here say that NOBODY wants him here anyway.

[Jedieb]

I hope Goodell bans him. But he won't. If Vick serves a year, I think he'll get 1 more year from the league. He'll get a second chance in the NFL from a desperate GM. Of course, a second chance depends on how well his PR campaign goes. I will NEVER, EVER believe a word out of Vick's mouth about how sorry he is. He is NOT sorry. He is sorry that he got caught. You don't just go around getting thrills from bloodsport, kill the underperformers and then issue a heartfelt apology once you get caught. If the investigation never led to Vick, he'd be out there right now still killing dogs. Vick is a disgusting human and does not deserve the privelege of playing in the NFL ever again. As for the CFL, they've instituted the "Ricky Williams rule" where they cannot take on a player who has been suspended by the NFL. I don't know if that condition changes if he's banned for life, but playing in Canada isn't a foregone conclusion. Besides, the polls here say that NOBODY wants him here anyway.

Wow, I hadn't heard about that Ricky Williams rule. Damn, how will former millionaire ex-cons make a living now?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I hope Goodell bans him. But he won't. If Vick serves a year, I think he'll get 1 more year from the league. He'll get a second chance in the NFL from a desperate GM. Of course, a second chance depends on how well his PR campaign goes. I will NEVER, EVER believe a word out of Vick's mouth about how sorry he is. He is NOT sorry. He is sorry that he got caught. You don't just go around getting thrills from bloodsport, kill the underperformers and then issue a heartfelt apology once you get caught. If the investigation never led to Vick, he'd be out there right now still killing dogs. Vick is a disgusting human and does not deserve the privelege of playing in the NFL ever again. As for the CFL, they've instituted the "Ricky Williams rule" where they cannot take on a player who has been suspended by the NFL. I don't know if that condition changes if he's banned for life, but playing in Canada isn't a foregone conclusion. Besides, the polls here say that NOBODY wants him here anyway.


If that is the case then I guess he would be forced to play in the Arena League if he gets banned. I think he will get banned for more than one season. They have to compare it to Pac Man who got a season and he hasn't been convicted of anything. Vick's convection should give him at least 2 years maybe 3 at the mininium.

[Rutabaga]

Poetic justice if I ever saw it!

ATLANTA — When the bright red jerseys with the bold No. 7 started arriving in the mail, staffers at the Atlanta Humane Society were a bit surprised.

Today, however, about a dozen Atlanta Falcons football jerseys bearing the name and number of quarterback Michael Vick have been put to good use - as animal bedding or, even more likely, rags to scrub up the mess that dogs leave behind.

"Kind of appropriate," said Wayne Pacelle, president of the Humane Society of the United States, of the jerseys that have been mailed to the shelter since Vick was indicted last month on federal dogfighting charges .

On Monday, Vick's lawyer said his client plans to plead guilty in the case next week. The charges include claims that he backed a dogfighting operation run from a farm he owns in Virginia, gambled thousands of dollars on bloody fights and took part in shooting, hanging, drowning or electrocuting dogs that lost fights or didn't show enough aggressive spirit.

Atlanta Humane Society spokeswoman P.J. Smith said many of the jerseys were accompanied with financial contributions to the society and letters of outrage over the charges.

"It's wonderful to see the public support and in a very unique way," Smith said.

Nationally, Pacelle said the group has seen a spike in support since the charges against Vick first became public.

More than 300,000 messages were sent through the Humane Society's web site urging NFL Commissioner Roger Goodell to ban Vick and nearly 200,000 were sent to Nike, which has since suspended a lucrative endorsement deal with Vick and pulled his products off of shelves.

The only other wave of support for the Humane Society comparable to the Vick outcry was the response after Hurricane Katrina left thousands of animals homeless, Pacelle said.

"(Dogfighting) is an issue we have known was very big in the country and growing in certain areas, but the public felt it was a solved issue," he said. "People now know that the battle is not over."

Like other Humane Society branches, Smith said the Atlanta shelter has received thousands of letters and e-mails from across the country. But sitting just blocks away from the Georgia Dome, where Vick once dazzled fans with his on-field moves, she said the batch of No. 7s from disaffected Vick fans is probably unique.

For Rocky, a brown Labrador retriever mix waiting at the Atlanta Humane Society for a permanent home, one of the jerseys was being used to line his bed Monday.

"It's his security blanket," said P.J. Smith, a spokeswoman for the Humane Society chapter. "He's still a puppy and he's grown quite attached to it."

[jjwr]

Assante Sammuel arrives at Pats camp...man this team is going to be an aweful lot of fun to watch this year! Ridiculous D, tons of weapons on Offense and a lot of very pissed of Vets about how they fell short last year.

[Jedieb]

http://18to88.com:80/Articles/starwars2007.htm
A friend sent me this. I apologize if it's already been posted. Great preview of the upcoming season. My favorite:
Arizona
9 - 7
Slave Princess Leia
Always the sexy pick, but ends up choking you to death.

[JMK]

Miami = Jar Jar? This is the worst day ever.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know that was harsh. I say you finish above Buffalo. I am not sure to laugh at the one the Chiefs got since they will probably ride Johnson all season.

[Yog]

I love those Star Warsey predictions :D

[Morgan Evanar]

Those predictions are awful because I disagree with a lot of the records/rankings.

I don't care how Miami does as long as they beat the Jets twice.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I agree that McNabb would look BA witha purple lightsaber.

But I also agree that I am not a fan of their records they have chosen.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Leftwich got released. That is a huge shock. I actually think the Chiefs should pick him up considering their QB situation.

[Yog]

Leftwich got released. That is a huge shock. I actually think the Chiefs should pick him up considering their QB situation.

I thought he was the clear starter for Jaguars. Whats going on?

[Rutabaga]

http://18to88.com:80/Articles/starwars2007.htm
A friend sent me this. I apologize if it's already been posted. Great preview of the upcoming season. My favorite:
Arizona
9 - 7
Slave Princess Leia
Always the sexy pick, but ends up choking you to death.

That was awesome, thanks for posting it.

Season starts Thursday, woo hoo! :dance

[JMK]

Rodney Harrison out four games for HGH. It drives me nuts how nobody cares about NFL players using whatever to bulk up. :mad

[Ryan Pode]

Leftwich got cut.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Leftwich got released. That is a huge shock. I actually think the Chiefs should pick him up considering their QB situation.

I thought he was the clear starter for Jaguars. Whats going on?

It seems like a complicated mess. Del Rio and Leftwich don't get along. Not sure why they just didn't cut him back before the preseason. They really screwed him by cutting him now. I bet the Falcolns will sign him because they really only have one good QB on their roster.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Rodney Harrison out four games for HGH. It drives me nuts how nobody cares about NFL players using whatever to bulk up. :mad

Well he did get caught, him and Wade Wilson and both got suspended by the league. I think the league does care and I think that is part of the difference between NFL and MLB. The NFL has done a much better job in going after steroid users than MLB. The only reason why players get away with it is because of the masking agent which makes it harder to catch the players.

[Ryan Pode]

Why does it matter if the coach is taking HGH?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Why does it matter if the coach is taking HGH?

I think I read he was planning on giving it to his players but that is just speculation. There is talk there will be more suspensions when this investigation into online steroid pharmacies is revealed.

[jjwr]

Believe me I'm not defending what he did but isn't HGH more for healing than for bulking up? I know its not technically a steroid, I thought the players took it more to heal and recover quicker but I could be wrong.

Either way its a banned substance and he knows better, he's been around the league long enough. From the Pats standpoint maybe with him missing the first 4 games he'll be able to stay healthy the rest of the season.

I was really suprised by Leftwich, last I had heard he was doing well and taking back control of the team and then they cut him. Crazy.

[JMK]

Rodney Harrison out four games for HGH. It drives me nuts how nobody cares about NFL players using whatever to bulk up. :mad

Well he did get caught, him and Wade Wilson and both got suspended by the league. I think the league does care and I think that is part of the difference between NFL and MLB. The NFL has done a much better job in going after steroid users than MLB. The only reason why players get away with it is because of the masking agent which makes it harder to catch the players.

I think the NFL is equally as crappy at catching users as MLB is. Look at these monsters in the league today. William Perry would be a lightweight in today's league...today a huge percentage of the league is 300+ lbs. And let's not even start with the linebackers and running backs. These guys are built like horses - you do not get that way from eating mom's oats for breakfast and your fish for dinner. These guys are all in to something, but for whatever reason people believe the NFL is on top of it. They're not.

[Ryan Pode]

I take offense in your William Perry analogy. He was listed at 370 and was probably well over 400.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Rodney Harrison out four games for HGH. It drives me nuts how nobody cares about NFL players using whatever to bulk up. :mad

Well he did get caught, him and Wade Wilson and both got suspended by the league. I think the league does care and I think that is part of the difference between NFL and MLB. The NFL has done a much better job in going after steroid users than MLB. The only reason why players get away with it is because of the masking agent which makes it harder to catch the players.

I think the NFL is equally as crappy at catching users as MLB is. Look at these monsters in the league today. William Perry would be a lightweight in today's league...today a huge percentage of the league is 300+ lbs. And let's not even start with the linebackers and running backs. These guys are built like horses - you do not get that way from eating mom's oats for breakfast and your fish for dinner. These guys are all in to something, but for whatever reason people believe the NFL is on top of it. They're not.
I agree with Ryan I remember when Perry played he was huge, he weighed close to 400 pounds before he retired. His problem was he ate too much turkey. I have read some articles on the issues with weight in the NFL and most of them say that the weight is more fat than muscle. Those Offensive line man are taking too many trips to the all you can eat buffet.
Also I didn't think steriods could make that big of a difference in weight. Muscle sure but that would only add 10-30 pounds. These guys are like 50-70 pounds over their normal weight that is all from over eating.

[JMK]

From all the reading I've done online, estimates have him topped at 350 during his playing days. He didn't hit 400 until after he retired.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Refrigerator_Perry
http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/01/31/tan.cnn25.perry/index.html
http://sports.espn.go.com/outdoors/hunting/news/story?page=h_ath_perry_william

[Jedi Master Carr]

Still he didn't get to that 400 level from steroids. People can get that big without steroids. Believe me I see a lot 300-400 people walking down the street (although it disgusts me that somebody can get that big). I think OL and some DL are getting that size by just eating too much. I read a study a few years back that said many of them are going to die young because they are just too big.

[JMK]

Sure there are some huge people out there, but I'd bet that many of them are not 5% as athletic as these linemen. Besides, I don't really have my focus on the linemen. I'm more concerned with linebackers and other guys on the field. They look like comic book heroes. If kickers can be on something (hello Todd Sauerbrun), then anyone can, and probably is.

[Jedieb]

The Colts looked damn good on Thursday night. I know a lot of people expect a big drop off because of all the starters they lost on defense, but that defense was a mess for most of last year, I think they'll probably put up better regular season numbers on defense this year with all the new blood. They got off to a great start by holding the Saints to only 3 points.

I know the Pats look great on paper, but this isn't how they've won in the past. They won because they were a great team on the field, not on paper. Signing all these big free agents kind of goes against the way they've built this team. I mean, how are Brady and some of those vets going to react when Randy Moss starts taking plays off because he's bored?

Looking forward to tomorrow but I'm hoping the Sunday night game isn't that great, I'd like to see the Yanks finish off a sweep of KC.

[Jedi Master Carr]

To me its between the Pats and Chargers. The Chargers probably have the best team, talent wise. Their defense is probably top 5 and they have the best RB in the NFL and best TE. And Rivers is a very good QB. I think if Schottenhiemer hadn't laid an egg again last year they would have won the SB. The colts never would have stopped Tomblinson. He would have had 200 yards againtst them. The Pats defense is probably top 3 and they have one of the best QB and some great WR, so it should be interesting to see who wins out between the two of them.