AIF re-does its 100 best list

[Jedi Master Carr]

I found this interesting
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070118/ap_en_mo/top100_films

I have no problem with that and think it could be fun to watch. I have to guess one LOTR should make it this time, probably Return of the King. I am kind of hoping they put Empire Strikes Back on there instead of A New Hope. ESB is the best Star Wars movie according to fans and critics.

[Tristan Tahmores]

Gotta agree with the fans and critics. ANH was the "introduction" of everything; ROTJ was the "tie up all the loose ends" one with all the battles and stuff. ESB had the best balance of both - story and battles. The Battle of Hoth was impressively done, and the Lightsaber duel, leaving it on a cliffhanger, was well done.

I think the middle episode of the trilogy is the best in both cases. The Phantom Menace was, well, long and scene-setty. And while the battles in Revenge of the Sith were extremely impressive - hats off to the CGI department - I have to say that I enjoyed Attack of the Clones the most out of the three. Geonosis was nicely done, and it was worth it to see Yoda duel for the first time!

[Jedi Master Carr]

I enjoyed ROTS the best of the Prequels, although I don't see any of the prequels making this list. I am wondering how they will treat LOTR. Realy probably should call it all one movie and list it as the LOTR.

[Tristan Tahmores]

True, although if any films get on, it'll logically be the first. You'll get the money from people who went to see it once, and didn't see the rest of the trilogy because they didn't like it. I know a lot of people who were put off by the length of FOTR.

ROTK was the best of the trilogy, but it doesn't really stand alone. Lord of the Rings is one story. Heck, you can buy it as one (very big) book. It was always written to be a set; the story of each film starts at the end of the one before. I agree with you - they should treat it as such.

As for ROTS - yeah, it was good. But the "Nooooo!" ruined it for me. I can't watch that scene anymore - have to skip to the one after if I ever watch it. Lol.

[jjwr]

Maybe they won't have a ridiculous number of old movies no one has heard of. Just because its old doesn't always mean its one of the greatest movies ever...

[Tristan Tahmores]

That's because a lot of them are based merely off the people who've seen it, rather than the quality of the film. If a film has been around since the '50s, of course lots of people are gonna see it. That few percent of the population who are into that sort of thing counts for a pretty high number in the long run...

[Jedi Master Carr]

There were some old movies I didn't agree with. I am also hoping Citizen Kane doesn't get #1 again. If it is Casablanca that won't bother me at all.

[CMJ]

Most of the old films on the list deserved to be there.

I have no problem with CK being #1. It's definitely among my all time faves as well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I just like Casablanca better thats all :) Not sure how many different films will make the list. I think we will see both ROTK or FOTR and American Beauty from recent years. Not sure what other movies since 1997 will make the cut. Saving Private Ryan maybe.

[CMJ]

Here are the 44 new potentials. I can see maybe 8-10 making it.


American Beauty
As Good As It Gets
Austin Powers: International Man of Mystery
The Aviator
A Beautiful Mind
Being John Malkovich
Boogie Nights
Brokeback Mountain
Chicago
Crash
Erin Brokovich
Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind
Fight Club
Finding Nemo
Gladiator
Good Night, and Good Luck.
Good Will Hunting
Harry Potter and the Prisoner of Azkaban
Hotel Rwanda
The Hours
The Insider
L.A. Confidential
Lord of the Rings 1-3
Lost in Translation
The Matrix
Memento
Million Dollar Baby
Moulin Rouge!
Mystic River
Pirates of the Caribbean: Curse of the Black Pearl
Requiem For a Dream
Rushmore
Saving Private Ryan
Shakespeare in Love
Shrek
Sideways
The Sixth Sense
Spider-Man 2
There's Something About Mary
Three Kings
Titanic
Traffic

Honestly, don't expect CK to get replaced. I could go into all sorts of reasons why, but it's just not gonna happen.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I would like to see it replaced. I just prefer Casablanca to it. CK is just way too dark for me which is why I would put Casablanca first. I forgot about Titantic that will make it for sure along with ROTK. I am surprised that one Harry Potter movie made even the considered list. I doubt it will get added same with Pirates and Spiderman although you could make arguments of the cultural importance of all three but I think they will have better luck in later years. I am not surprised that none of the Star Wars prequels made it.

[CMJ]

Citizen Kane is NOT getting replaced. It's about as untouchable as untouchable could be. No other film is broken down to the molecular level that Kane can in terms of its use as a cinematic educational tool, and no other auteur's masterpiece comes close to being as entertaining from a dramatic, humorous, and most importantly for this list...HISTORICAL standpoint. What makes Kane such an unshakeable champion is that it is SO much an American film, and not in that shallow Hollywood way. It is about the American dream, the light and the dark side of it. It's a story that appears to run alongside the 20th Century timeline of history, and yet it's focused so much on one man's trials and tribulations, as if Kane himself is a metaphor for the country as whole.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Citizen Kane is NOT getting replaced. It's about as untouchable as untouchable could be. No other film is broken down to the molecular level that Kane can in terms of its use as a cinematic educational tool, and no other auteur's masterpiece comes close to being as entertaining from a dramatic, humorous, and most importantly for this list...HISTORICAL standpoint. What makes Kane such an unshakeable champion is that it is SO much an American film, and not in that shallow Hollywood way. It is about the American dream, the light and the dark side of it. It's a story that appears to run alongside the 20th Century timeline of history, and yet it's focused so much on one man's trials and tribulations, as if Kane himself is a metaphor for the country as whole.

heh hey it is just my opinion. Personally I take other films now they probably won't go with what I like and you are probably right but CK just isn't really for me. I have seen it and just have never liked it as much as other people do.

[CMJ]

It's not my #1 film either Layton. It'd be in my top 10. But you gotta think...nearly everyone who votes on this will have it placed near the top - which is why it will stay #1. Probably for another generation at least. I can see Godfather eventually taking the spot.

My choice would be Schindler's List obviously. I hope it can stay in the top 10.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It's not my #1 film either Layton. It'd be in my top 10. But you gotta think...nearly everyone who votes on this will have it placed near the top - which is why it will stay #1. Probably for another generation at least. I can see Godfather eventually taking the spot.

My choice would be Schindler's List obviously. I hope it can stay in the top 10.

Hey I understand :) I think the way I said it originally was wrong, my choice would be Casablanca. I can understand why Citizen Kane would be #1. Although in another generation who knows what will be #1 in a list like this. It could be the Godfather though.

[CMJ]

Mostly I say Godfather because that has had a strong critical mass get behind it in recent years with the kids who came of age in the 70's naming it among their favorites. It is studied almost as much as CK in Film Schools. They are the first generation lovers passing their love/knowledge about the film down to us. So folks around my age +/- a few years will be the film historians in another 25-30 years. So then you get a SECOND generation that worships it. That sort of addresses why there are so many older films on lists like these. Consensus's take a long time to come together.

Just makes me think it has an excellent shot at being #1 down the line. It's the most admired film of the 70's.

[Jedieb]

I enjoyed ROTS the best of the Prequels, although I don't see any of the prequels making this list. I am wondering how they will treat LOTR. Realy probably should call it all one movie and list it as the LOTR.

That's how I would vote LOTR on there. I would be surprised if it didn't make the list. I'm curious to see if anything in the Top 10 changes. My #1 has always been Casablanca. I'm on a Bogart binge right now and I'm getting ready to rewatch it this month.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Mostly I say Godfather because that has had a strong critical mass get behind it in recent years with the kids who came of age in the 70's naming it among their favorites. It is studied almost as much as CK in Film Schools. They are the first generation lovers passing their love/knowledge about the film down to us. So folks around my age +/- a few years will be the film historians in another 25-30 years. So then you get a SECOND generation that worships it. That sort of addresses why there are so many older films on lists like these. Consensus's take a long time to come together.

Just makes me think it has an excellent shot at being #1 down the line. It's the most admired film of the 70's.
Ok I see what you mean an that makes sense.

[sirdizzy]

I have seen every movie in the AFI 100, took me 3-4 years do it finished up the list last summer

movies i'd like to see taken off the list are

#4 Gone with the Wind, movie bugs the heck out of me as Scarlet is a pompous egotistical snob in the beginning of the movie 3 hours of all these events happening to her, she will never go hungry again and she still a pompous egotistical snob replace it with something good like Fight Club or LA Confiedential

#22 2001: A Space Odyssey- To mean one of the most over rated films of all time, I understand the ground breaking effects of the movie and its impact but to me this movie was beyond boring and 22 minutes of monkeys growling at each other in a scene that could have been done in 3-4 minutes is adding insult to injury for a movie that had so little plot and dialogue replace it with The Matrix a far better sci-fi film

#62 Tootsie, how is the movie ground breaking or even influential, are there not better comedies on the list than this movie replace it with Eternal Sunshine of a Spotless Mind

#68 An American In Paris one of the more ho hum musicals of the 1950's, this movie is from an era when it was an average musical surrounded by far greater musicals. Replace it with Moulin Rouge!

#74, #76 The Gold Rush and City Lights, the list already has in my Opinion Chaplin's best film Modern Times lets replace of these other 2 silent movies with something from Buster Keaton who got no love last time

#100 Yankee Doodle Dandy, ok film but a lot better films out there more deserving replace it with another war like movie Saving Private Ryan

[Yog]

For me, its always been obvious the AFI list is not about what movies are the "best"/"greatest" but what movies had the most cultural impact and importance in cinematic history. What movies paved the way for others to follow etc. Its looking at the motion picture production as an artform over the span of a 100 years and describing the defining moments. Thats what the AFI top 100 is really about, and thats why you see so many old movies there.

This is also why you see Citizen Kane listed in front of Godfather and Casablanca. I don't know a lot of people who honestly think CK is the better movie of that trio, but if you ask directors, producers, actors, critics and scholars they put CK way up there, because they respect the pioneering craftmanship behind it, and how it inspired generations of directors to come.

Another example is The Jazz Singer (1927). Not an aweinspiring movie in any sense.. but it was the first motion picture with spoken dialogue (before that, it was Charlie Chaplin style text on the screen with music). Its the pioneering use of a new technique, which would revolutionize motion picture making as an artform. Thats why it was deemed significant enough to put on the list.

Its a great list for any self respecting movie buff and directors who wants to learn their art better. However, if you're looking for a countdown of the most entertaining, thrilling, thought inspiring and emotionally complex movies, this list is probably not for you. The IMDB top 250 list does a better job at that, IMO.

[Mitch]

If something happens to knock Lawrence of Arabia off the list, or even jsut farther down it, there's going to be words.

Strong, strong words.

[sirdizzy]

I just bought Lawrence of Arabia for my film library. This was a movie I couldn't get through the first time, I rented it a couple months later and absolutly loved it. Its a little slow in the beginning but it gets really good really fast.

[CMJ]

The new list comes out in a few hours. I've read some spoilers of how things have and haven't changed, but I don't know the complete list.

I will just say I was right about some of what I said months back.

[Yog]

I love that they moved Vertigo up the list.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I haven't read any spoilers although I was tempted today. I am curious to see what new movies make it. I figure Titantic, LOTR and Saving Private Ryan are all guarentees. After that who knows.

[Yog]

Shawshank Redemption is in. Deservedly.

Also, it will show on CBS at 8 pm EST, that's in 10 minutes

[Jedi Master Carr]

First I guess CMJ was right about Kane. I still don't care for the movie but I understand why they picked it. Second I can't believe that Raging Bull and Singing in the Rain are considered better than Lawerence of Arabia and Gone with the Wind. That is shocking. I am guessing Raging Bull got so high because Marty got his Oscar, not sure where the love for Singing in the Rain came from. Also the AIF must hate sequels or something because they picked FOTR over ROTK (ROTK was easily the better movie) ANH over ESB (Empire is better) and Toy Story over Toy Story 2. Only the Godfather 2 made the list and in my opinion The Godfather 2 is better than the Godfather. I see a lot of movies left the list like Dr. Zhivago and Birth of the a Nation (could be the movie's black eye is starting to hurt it). And wow did the Searchers really jump up.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

they picked FOTR over ROTK (ROTK was easily the better movie)

Absolutly NOT. FOTR was the best out of all three tremendous files and also was a real revolution in CGI in a live film that lead to Gollum and MASSIVE - in reality tho, the whole LOTR trilogy is one very big movie and should be counted as such. Toy Story is a easy one to explain - the original was an absolute jaw dropper and one of the biggest leaps forward in movie technology ever, marking the real start of feature length computer animation, especially as a commerical success. It is by far the most important computer animation film ever. It also marks the arrival of Pixar as the industry powerhouse of animation, much like Disney did in the 30's and highly ironic that while on paper Disney bought out Pixar, it's now Pixar running Disney.

The Pixar age of computer animation will go down in history much like Disney's golden age did.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Singing in the Rain is awesome.

[CMJ]

they picked FOTR over ROTK (ROTK was easily the better movie)

Absolutly NOT. FOTR was the best out of all three tremendous files

Like hell it was. ;)

(ROTK was the best)

I was shocked with some of the films that fell off the list. Almost a quarter off the old list was replaced. Just shows how film's stock rises and falls with time. I wouldn't be surprised in another 10 years if some of the removed films hop back on again.

Godfather is probably 20 years away from have a real shot at unseating Kane.

[CMJ]

Second I can't believe that Raging Bull and Singing in the Rain are considered better than Lawerence of Arabia and Gone with the Wind. That is shocking. I am guessing Raging Bull got so high because Marty got his Oscar

Dude, Raging Bull is considered by most film critics/scholars to be the best film of the 1980's. It also made the Director's list of the Sight and Sound top 10(which is a compilation of Directors and Critics voting on the 10 best films once a decade). So it's not that shocking - despite the fact that I merely think it's a good, but not great film. His Oscar win this year has NOTHING to do with RB.


not sure where the love for Singing in the Rain came from. Also the AIF must hate sequels or something because they picked FOTR over ROTK (ROTK was easily the better movie) ANH over ESB (Empire is better) and Toy Story over Toy Story 2. Only the Godfather 2 made the list and in my opinion The Godfather 2 is better than the Godfather. I see a lot of movies left the list like Dr. Zhivago and Birth of the a Nation (could be the movie's black eye is starting to hurt it). And wow did the Searchers really jump up.

Singing in the Rain is discussed as the definitive film in one of the classic genres. It'll always be in the top 10 I would imagine(or close to). Not sure with all the sequels missing, but considering part of the criteria is not just "good", but influential - the original by definition has to be more influential doesn't it? The consesnus on Godfather is the original is better than Part 2, though the 2nd definitely has a fan base.

Dr. Zhivago being knocked off was prolly the biggest shocker. Amadeus being nixed was my most disappointing. But a very good list....slightly better than last go round I think.

[sirdizzy]

ummm no the movie that jumped the most was The General, it didn't even make the list before and it made it all the way to #18

there ya go
http://www.rinkworks.com/checklist/list.cgi?u=sirdizzy&U=sirdizzy&p=afi10010thaniv

[CMJ]

ummm no the movie that jumped the most was The General, it didn't even make the list before and it made it all the way to #18

there ya go
http://www.rinkworks.com/checklist/list.cgi?u=sirdizzy&U=sirdizzy&p=afi10010thaniv

Did I say otherwise? Heck, I don't believe I mentioned what films jumped the most(I mentioned what dropped the most). The General was a film that was considered an ommission 10 years ago. It's inclusion wasn't a big surprise to me....where it was placed was tho.

[sirdizzy]

my thoughts were

A couple of things, first off Star Wars at #13 is one of the biggest jokes ever the searchers, singin in the rain and ragin bull which is sitting in its spot how are these movies better and more influencial than Star Wars. I mean I understand its critics and hollywood elite voting for this stuff so I won't try and upset to the top 3 but star wars has changed film more than any movie ever, including Citizen Kane.

secondly still no love for Empire Strikes Back, if you were to name the two greatest sequels ever they would be Godfather part II and Empire hands down. You can't lump Empire in with Star Wars because its the far superior film, you can get away with it on the LOTR trilogy because thats basically one movie and the superior movie of the series was Fellowship.


Glad to see Shawshank make it but still too low.

Glad to see a Buster Keaton movie get some love as he got shafted completly last time but to go from not making the list to #18 how the hell is that feasible. I mean if it wasn't good enough to make the lost last time it should be in the 80's or 90's right but to go from missing it top 20 thats mind boggling. They should have take off one of the Chaplin films to make room for the Keaton one instead of bumping movies like Fargo. Keep Modern Times and Gold Rush bump City Lights.

[Morgan Evanar]

my thoughts were

A couple of things, first off Star Wars at #13 is one of the biggest jokes ever the searchers, singin in the rain and ragin bull which is sitting in its spot how are these movies better and more influencial than Star Wars. I mean I understand its critics and hollywood elite voting for this stuff so I won't try and upset to the top 3 but star wars has changed film more than any movie ever, including Citizen Kane.Star Wars changed the way special effects were done, but it isn't a template for making a great movie.

[sirdizzy]

without star wars most of the films we have today wouldn't exist. Same thing goes for Citizen Kane which revolutionized how films were shot and camera angles, Kane always gets credit for its revolution, Star Wars rarely does.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Second I can't believe that Raging Bull and Singing in the Rain are considered better than Lawerence of Arabia and Gone with the Wind. That is shocking. I am guessing Raging Bull got so high because Marty got his Oscar

Dude, Raging Bull is considered by most film critics/scholars to be the best film of the 1980's. It also made the Director's list of the Sight and Sound top 10(which is a compilation of Directors and Critics voting on the 10 best films once a decade). So it's not that shocking - despite the fact that I merely think it's a good, but not great film. His Oscar win this year has NOTHING to do with RB.


not sure where the love for Singing in the Rain came from. Also the AIF must hate sequels or something because they picked FOTR over ROTK (ROTK was easily the better movie) ANH over ESB (Empire is better) and Toy Story over Toy Story 2. Only the Godfather 2 made the list and in my opinion The Godfather 2 is better than the Godfather. I see a lot of movies left the list like Dr. Zhivago and Birth of the a Nation (could be the movie's black eye is starting to hurt it). And wow did the Searchers really jump up.

Singing in the Rain is discussed as the definitive film in one of the classic genres. It'll always be in the top 10 I would imagine(or close to). Not sure with all the sequels missing, but considering part of the criteria is not just "good", but influential - the original by definition has to be more influential doesn't it? The consesnus on Godfather is the original is better than Part 2, though the 2nd definitely has a fan base.

Dr. Zhivago being knocked off was prolly the biggest shocker. Amadeus being nixed was my most disappointing. But a very good list....slightly better than last go round I think.

My feeling on Raging Bull is more that it passed two great films like Lawerence of Arabia and Gone with the Wind. It had been placed at 6th, it would be a different story. As for the sequel issue. I just don't think they want to admit that a sequel is better than the original. I think that will probably why it will be tough for movies like Spiderman 2 or any of the Harry Potter sequels (if any of them reach LOTR heights) have much chance with ever getting on this list. My biggest shocker was how far Ben-Hur dropped. I mean one more place and it wouldn't be on this list. The film won 11 oscars and is tied for that record and for decades was considered one of the greatest films ever. I think that is a major surprise.

[JMK]

I think these lists are now completely bogus. How does a film go from 'absent', to #18, and from high up, to barely there at all? It makes absolutely no sense at all. Not enough time has passed since the last list was out for changes this drastic to take place. All this is for is to get people talking about classics and watching them. As we all know, the AFI is a highly politicized entity and all they're doing is spreading the love around. There are tons of movies deserving to be recognized like this, and continually revising their list gives them the chance to do just that. Let me say that I don't think it's a bad thing that they get people buzzing about classic movies but we've got to keep in mind that the list they put out today will probably be obsolete in anothe few years, with more arrivals, drops, rises and disappearances.

[sirdizzy]

I would have liked to have seen Memento make the list over Sixth Sense. Heck if you were going to put a Shylaman film on the list go with his best Unbreakable. I have seen a lot of disent about Sixth Sense making it as many felt there were far better movies in 1999 like American Beauty (I would have to agree).

And I never understood why the hate on sequels, I mean it is rare that a sequel ends up being better than its predesecor but its not uncommon. The thing about Empire and Godfather is that these movies were better than a movie that is considered a classic a top movie of all time. I mean that makes them the ultimate rarity, an incredible sequel that topped an already amazing and incredible film.

I am really unhappy with Titanic being on the list, to me its the most overrated movie of all time. I mean to bump fargo, mutiny on the bounty, frankenstein, rebel without a cause, close encounters of the third kind is a travesty. But to include it instead of LA Confidential just as much of a travesty.

Glad to see 12 angry men on there, one of my favorite films of all time.

[CMJ]

DVD transfers of many silent films(like The General) will help them. Many scholars even may not have seen it...or only seen a crappy VHS version. The refurbishing of old classics helps a ton.

Titanic absolutely deserved to be on the list, as a cultural landmark as much as anything(plus it's a fantastic film).. Expect it to climb in further incarnations of this list(it'll prolly settle in the 50's I'd guess).

Oh and Godfather is still a better film than Part II. The AFI got that one right.