The Smart: Tiny Cars to take on SUVs

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Saddam's hanging thread was getting hijacked by talk of falling and rising gas prices, and the pros and cons of SUVs vs. more fuel efficient models.

http://swf-agglomeration.net/photos/smart.jpg

Available in Canada and the UK, the Smart (http://www.smart.com/-snm-0166599148-1157920782-0000021140-0000011824-1162856112-enm-is-bin/INTERSHOP.enfinity/WFS/mpc-uk-content-Site/en_UK/-/GBP/SVCPresentationPipeline-Start?Page=issite%3a%2f%2fsmart-Site%2fsmart%2ecom%2fRootFolder%2frest%2fredirect% 2epage&ScriptParam=smart/modelle/smartcitycoupe/ausstattung/pure/highlights) will become available for purchase in the USA next year. Canadian they run about $16,700 for the base model, minus taxes and fees. My company currently owns two, which they paid through the nose for to get here from Canada, and have painted them up to use as promotional vehicles. Apparently they get like... 5 zillions miles to the gallon (60-mpg, actually). The downside - they're the size of postage stamps.

Parallel parking will no longer be a problem, and if you've seen SCIfi's Eureka you'll know that all the smart people are driving the Smart.

http://swf-agglomeration.net/photos/mini.jpg

Then there's always the MINI Cooper, which not only is undeniably adorable it gets 25 city MPG, and 32 highway MPG. It'll run you about $21,900 American for the MINI Cooper S. And it has a backseat and a little bit of trunk space, which means its about twice the size of a Smart. Slightly harder to park - yet easier to see on the road when the other drivers are all in Silverados and H3s.

http://swf-agglomeration.net/photos/escape.jpg

Yet with new SUVs and trucks on the horizon, and some already here like the Ford Escape Hybrid (EPA estimated mpg: FWD 36 City / 31 Hwy, $19,380 - $26,680 ), is smaller better?

And does anyone really care, anyway?

[Dasquian Belargic]

You are only just now getting Smart cars in the US? Wow.

I love the Mini Cooper. Prefer the original the the new design, though.

[Sanis Prent]

Got anything that isn't hideous? :(

I'll just keep lusting after the Subaru Baja. If only imports weren't so expensive on the upkeep, I'd be angling for one for sure.

[JMK]

I hate hate hate those little smart cars. The tires are like training wheels. I admire the concept behind them but I can't help but think that the smallest of fender benders would get you killed.

They've been available here for a few years now...I still can't get used to them.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

You are only just now getting Smart cars in the US? Wow.

I love the Mini Cooper. Prefer the original the the new design, though.

My dream car is the MINI Cooper S. :love I just pulled the first picture I found off of MINI.com. I don't really like the convertibles, either...

[Jaime Tomahawk]

I hate hate hate those little smart cars. The tires are like training wheels. I admire the concept behind them but I can't help but think that the smallest of fender benders would get you killed.

They've been available here for a few years now...I still can't get used to them.


Stop right there if you are going to post that Smart's arent crash worthy. You are absolutly, completely and utterly wrong - they are in fact safer in a crash than big 4WD's. Even with their size, they dont have properly designed crumple zones and an integrated cage structure that shunts impact energy away from the passenger compartment. The typical 4WD does not do this anywhere near as well than even the tink Smart and this is the real key to safety, not size and strength.

Hybrids are also nothing moe than marketing because a properly done Euro diesel will blow a hybrid away in economy and cost to run. You really dont need a small car as a result.

But the typical size of a US 4WD is also unnecessary.

[Pierce Tondry]

Emissions standards were mostly what kept the car out of the US until ZAP produced an Americanized version of the car. Well, that and the fact that there wasn't really a market for the vehicle. Even now the move in US auto trends has been towards Japanese sedans and other 4-doors, not to the tiny little 2-door wonders that are the Smarts.

The 2-door Smarts are, for the most part, not primary cars. They're highly fuel-efficient and compact, making them great for people who live, work, and commute all within city limits but that's about the only type of person who'd use them as a primary. Most everyone else would buy a Smart, MINI, or Prius as a second family car for the spouse to get to work in.

For those not in the know, D-C AG is redesigning the car for the American release. They'll be the same concept (emphasis on fuel efficient and small) but won't quite be what's already been released.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Charley, I looked up the Subaru Baja... and its... hideous! So while you may have aesthetic complaints about the Smart or the Escape or the MINI (leaving the Smart out of it, the latter two are very nice looking cars, imo), you prefer this fugly combination of a car and a pickup?

Which, btw, costs about $22,495, and gets a measly 21-mpg in the city and 27-mpg on the highway, unless you happen to get the Turbo version, in which case the mileage goes down even more (19 city, 25 hwy).

[Jedieb]

I've actually been researching new cars lately because I'll probably be buying one late next year. I've had my Jeep Wrangler since 97 and it's the friggin' love of my life. But I've been pushing it for years now. There are 3 padawans running loose in my house and anytime that I find myself with all 3 of them, we can't leave the house! They don't fit in the Jeep because the boy isn't old enough to ride up front yet. It's tiime to let go and finally get something with room for 5. :cry

Those mini's look interesting, but again, they're not practical for me. That Ford Escape hybrid is the kind of car I'm looking at. But I'm actually trying to stay UNDER $20K. Kids are expensive, a crack habit would more economical than my SW collecting, and I'm a CHEAP BASTARD by nature. The cars I'm looking at right now are;

The Dodge Caliber (First car on the left.)
The Jeep Compass (Second on the upper right.)
The Jeep Patriot (Green Jeep on the lower left.)

And the dream that won't die...
The 4dr Jeep Wrangler (Black Jeep on the lower right.)

Any suggestions, comments?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I've seen a few Dodge Calibers on the streets and they look pretty good to me. I haven't done any research on prices and milage, so I'm not sure how all these stack up against each other.

The 4dr Wrangler is pretty sweet though. ;)

[Jedieb]

We Jeep owners can be pretty fanatical about our cars. Of those 4 that Wrangler gets the worst gas mileage and has the worst safety features. When I bought my first Jeep it was a dream purchase and my wife and I didn't have any kids. I really can't justify getting another one today, but I had to put it up there because it so damn beautiful!!!!!!!!!

I've priced a Caliber at around $18K. It gets 32 on the HWY, and around 28 in the city. Not bad and a big improvement over my current Wrangler. The Compass and Patriot both get over 26 in the city and close to 30 on the HWY so they're not bad either. Plus, they'd satisfy my Jeep addiction. All of these cars are less than, or right at 20K.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

I've actually been researching new cars lately because I'll
The Dodge Caliber (First car on the left.)
The Jeep Compass (Second on the upper right.)
The Jeep Patriot (Green Jeep on the lower left.)


Any suggestions, comments?


Caliber - Crap. Better off with a Subaru Forester or Toyota RAV4
Compass - Utter crap
Patroit - Oh you got to be kidding me type bad

You would be much better in the end with a Subaru Outback or if you can get past the utterly hideous exterior a Tribeca.


unless you happen to get the Turbo version, in which case the mileage goes down even more (19 city, 25 hwy).

But it also has Subaru utter reliability, the Subaru amazing crash safety, the AWD system that simply set the standard and if you give the 2.5 litre turbo a prod of the accelerator - you can wave good bye to V8 powered cars. Subaru have this thing about making ugly, but otherwise amazing cars.

[Sanis Prent]

Charley, I looked up the Subaru Baja... and its... hideous! So while you may have aesthetic complaints about the Smart or the Escape or the MINI (leaving the Smart out of it, the latter two are very nice looking cars, imo), you prefer this fugly combination of a car and a pickup?

Which, btw, costs about $22,495, and gets a measly 21-mpg in the city and 27-mpg on the highway, unless you happen to get the Turbo version, in which case the mileage goes down even more (19 city, 25 hwy).

What are you talking about? It's got all the makings to be the perfect 21st century Technical :love

As for gas mileage, yeah there's plenty that can beat it, but there are some things that are worth more than fuel economy to me. I'm driving a pickup right now that doesn't get great gas mileage, but it looks good and does what I need it to do.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Its still ugly to me. Seriously. Why not get one of those VW Bus/pickups while you're at it? :mneh

Subaru makes excellent vehicles, I'll not argue that point. But even Mark says they make ugly cars. ;)

[Sanis Prent]

I find great beauty in utilitarian things. It may not be full of pomp & fluff, but the Baja screams utilitarian hotness. If I could replace the door panelings with riveted platings, even better.

[Morgan Evanar]

Got anything that isn't hideous? :(

I'll just keep lusting after the Subaru Baja. If only imports weren't so expensive on the upkeep, I'd be angling for one for sure.Stop drinking the kool-aide, son. They're hardly more expensive than most american cars, and usually easier to work on (with some exceptions on both sides).

What I lust after? A AWD turbo terror that idiots keep crashing so I can't afford the insurance reasonably. Instead, I'm going to be buying one of these:
http://panicked.org/01purewhite.jpg
Incredible handling, good fuel enconomy, unsurpassed ease of maintaince compared to almost any modern car, huge upgrade potential and FUN.

[Sanis Prent]

Stop drinking the kool-aide, son. They're hardly more expensive than most american cars, and usually easier to work on (with some exceptions on both sides).

I get insane discounts on maintaining GM vehicles, often paying only for components at cost. My situation is a unique one though.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Its still ugly to me. Seriously. Why not get one of those VW Bus/pickups while you're at it? :mneh

Subaru makes excellent vehicles, I'll not argue that point. But even Mark says they make ugly cars. ;)

You don't buy Subaru's with your heart or how they look in most cases, You buy them with your head because they just plain make sense and whichever way you look at them, they excel. They also just plain haven't made a bad car in 2 decades.

Altho a black Liberty B4 is rather beautiful.

But while you do buy them with the head, they steal your heart very quick. Red WRX = Marcus in love. It's just amazing how damn good Subarus are

http://alliancemotorsport.org/gallery/d/26106-1/Untitled-2.jpg

Go on Charley, go get a Baja, you'll love it to bits

[Khendon Sevon]

Smart Cars won't survive in America. We're not about smaller! We're all about supersizing! Now, if they made a Smart Car that was jumbo, we'd buy it! Especially if they gave it out to rappers who'd pimp it out...

I love capitalism.

My RX-8 is sitting at home not doing anything. Hoboken is a wonder of public transporation.

[JMK]

Stop right there if you are going to post that Smart's arent crash worthy. You are absolutly, completely and utterly wrong - they are in fact safer in a crash than big 4WD's. Even with their size, they dont have properly designed crumple zones and an integrated cage structure that shunts impact energy away from the passenger compartment.

I'm sure they are crash worthy - they wouldn't be allowed on the road if they weren't -especially being so tiny. But I just wouldn't feel safe in one. My first car was a Pontiac Firefly and the doors were about as solid as pancakes.

Eb - the Calibers are selling extremely well, but I don't know if they're ideal for a family of 5. You'd have to check it out so be sure you'd all be comfortable, but I'd be skeptical. The Compass is basically a Caliber on a jeep body. I'd probably skip that one too. I know how much it hurts to abandon the jeep name. I've had 2 Cherokees in the past couple years and got rid of them both, one because I was given another vehicle for free, the other because it's nonsense owning a 4 liter engine these days.
Like Marcus said, if you can get a Subaru for under 20K I think you be much happier.

[Pierce Tondry]

Smart Cars won't survive in America. We're not about smaller! We're all about supersizing! Now, if they made a Smart Car that was jumbo, we'd buy it! Especially if they gave it out to rappers who'd pimp it out...

Size perceptions really aren't what will kill the car in the US. There's an almost ubiquitous story going around of people who buy a Smart and then have people drawn to the car like flies because "it's adorable". What will actually slow sales growth is...


I'm sure they are crash worthy - they wouldn't be allowed on the road if they weren't -especially being so tiny. But I just wouldn't feel safe in one.

... that perception of safety. Despite having made DCX no profit, Smart produces some good cars. It's the overall concept that falls through. Even though the Smart uses a Tridion safety cell and has some really good crash test numbers, people still look at it and think the vehicle can't possibly protect them. Which, of course, is a crap perception: it will do better than some SUVs in crash situations and those monsters are typically regarded as "safe" because they're vehicular tanks. But common wisdom is common for a reason, whether or not that reason is logical. Right JMK? ;)

Anyways, Smart's real market in the US is as the second or third family vehicle which is much smaller than the primary vehicle market to be sure. Nonetheless, spouses driving the car to work or teenagers driving the car to school would give that tiny little 2-door a niche to fill that otherwise probably wouldn't get filled as readily.

I'm very curious how it will go over in China.

[Leten Snat]

They are selling fast up here in Canada. They are great little commuter cars. They may be small, but they donn't need to be big to get a person from point A to point B. I know alot of people that use it as a second car. the have a van or truck for when they need to move things, and the smart for day to day going to work, quick shopping trips, and traveling when they only need to move themself.

Kinda helps the Smart, that Gas is selling at $0.97 per liter, and was up to $1.23 per liter up here in the summer. That's currently about $3.88 per gal and got up to $4.92 per gal this summer.

[JMK]

Which, of course, is a crap perception: it will do better than some SUVs in crash situations and those monsters are typically regarded as "safe" because they're vehicular tanks. But common wisdom is common for a reason, whether or not that reason is logical. Right JMK? ;)



Yeah - the perception that you're dead meat is a marketing issue for Smart to tackle. I'm not saying that I need to be in a sherman tank to feel safe, or even a mid-size SUV. But any car that can be tipped over by one kid certainly doesn't have my faith. IIRC there was a rash of incidents last year in parts of Europe where teens were tipping over Smart cars. But not 4 or 5 kids - one!

Besides, the Smart, as stated is an urbanite commuter's dream. To get around the city they're awesome, but I wouldn't take them on any sort of road trip.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Yeah - the perception that you're dead meat is a marketing issue for Smart to tackle. I'm not saying that I need to be in a sherman tank to feel safe, or even a mid-size SUV. But any car that can be tipped over by one kid certainly doesn't have my faith. IIRC there was a rash of incidents last year in parts of Europe where teens were tipping over Smart cars. But not 4 or 5 kids - one!

But the fact is most big 4WD's are much more prone to tipping than a Smart when driving AND you are more likely to die in a rollover of a 4WD than any other vehicle.

But it is true that the Smart's market is for cities. I doubt potntial buyers will care because they will be tooling around in traffic or shopping.... or posing.

[Morgan Evanar]

I get insane discounts on maintaining GM vehicles, often paying only for components at cost. My situation is a unique one though.A Pontiac Vibe would be a good compromise (it's actually a Toyota Matrix :cool: )But yes, your situation is different.

GM is actually making some decent cars these days, but I'd still rather own a Japanese competitor in many cases. I'm not really biased one way or the other. My family has had good American cars and good Japanese ones. The only horrible experience we had was a diesel Volvo, and that was Peugot's fault. Damn French :p

[Jedieb]

Everytime I've researched Subarus they're simply out of my price range. I'm sticking to that $20K ceiling. By the time I get the accessories on a Forester added I'm looking at over $24. And frankly, I think the Forrester is butt ugly. I'm resigned to the fact I need a family vehicle, but I'll be damned if it's going to look like a traditional station wagon.


Eb - the Calibers are selling extremely well, but I don't know if they're ideal for a family of 5. You'd have to check it out so be sure you'd all be comfortable, but I'd be skeptical. The Compass is basically a Caliber on a jeep body. I'd probably skip that one too. I know how much it hurts to abandon the jeep name. I've had 2 Cherokees in the past couple years and got rid of them both, one because I was given another vehicle for free, the other because it's nonsense owning a 4 liter engine these days.
Like Marcus said, if you can get a Subaru for under 20K I think you be much happier.

I saw a Caliber the other day and was surprised at it's size. I will be test driving all of these cars next summer and that will include having all 3 kids climbing into the back seat and seeing how comfortable they are. I really don't care that much about storage space. The Dodge Magnum is a bit interesting. My wife doesn't like it, but I pointed one out to my son the other day and he thought it was pretty cool.

The Jeep Compass and the Patriot are the first Jeeps to not be Trail Rated. Again, I don't need that anymore. I need space for these 3 montsers and decent gas mileage. Off road handling is irrelevant.

[Jedieb]

Just did some checking on the Rav4. I've seen plenty of these around but I don't really like the look of them. Once I get them priced they're above $22K. Remember, I'm cheap and I need money for toys.

[Morgan Evanar]

Eb, look at the Ford Fusion. It's a Mazda 6 in Ford clothing and a damn good car.

[Jedieb]

I'll look it up when I get a chance, thanks for the suggestion Morgan.

Let me say something about these Smart cars. I think they're pretty sweet. They look like great cars for high school and college students. I wouldn't mind getting one of them for my kids when they start driving a few years from now.

[Mitch]

Eb, look at the Ford Fusion. It's a Mazda 6 in Ford clothing and a damn good car.

With one of the worst crash-test ratings in its class, and low mileage for its class.

People can talk about cars all they want. I still love my big huge Explorer, and my next car is going to be a late 60's Ford with a V8. Why? Because it can be, and because I like them. That, and they hold almost as much stuff as my very, very useful Explorer.

[Pierce Tondry]

Yeah - the perception that you're dead meat is a marketing issue for Smart to tackle. I'm not saying that I need to be in a sherman tank to feel safe, or even a mid-size SUV. But any car that can be tipped over by one kid certainly doesn't have my faith. IIRC there was a rash of incidents last year in parts of Europe where teens were tipping over Smart cars. But not 4 or 5 kids - one!

Are we talking about one teenager pushing over a parked car? Or are we talking about a teen driving the car and it tips over on the road? Because those are two drastically different scenarios and the former holds little bearing on the latter.

[Mitch]

I believe he meant a parked car being pushed over.

[Jedieb]

I looked at the Fusion and it's too small for what I need. An Explorer is just too damn big and a bit too glutonous for me.

[Park Kraken]

I swear the Smart car looks liked a pimped out golf cart to me. Like a rounded and smashed in version of the Scion.

[JMK]

Are we talking about one teenager pushing over a parked car? Or are we talking about a teen driving the car and it tips over on the road? Because those are two drastically different scenarios and the former holds little bearing on the latter.

Sorry, I guess I didn't word it properly. I meant that one kid walks up to the parked car and manages to tip it over himself. I don't want to be in a car that can be tipped by a teen on a sugar rush.

http://www.boingboing.net/2005/04/30/old_cowtipping_new_s.html

Although I heard that one kid can tip them, I've just done some actual digging and it seems as though it's taken more than one person to do it, but still...it's apparently as easy as cow tipping. :)

[Park Kraken]

JMK: I could definitly tip one over by myself.

[Morgan Evanar]

With one of the worst crash-test ratings in its class, and low mileage for its class.What? The milage isn't as good as a Camry or Accord but it's as good or better than everything else midsized with the 4, and comparable again with the 6.

<table border="0" cellpadding="2" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr valign="top"><td class="chartheader" width="50%">NHTSA Ratings</td> <td class="chartheader" width="50%"> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="chartlight" width="50%">Passenger: Good</td> <td class="chartlight" width="50%"> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="chartdark" width="50%">Driver: Good</td> <td class="chartdark" width="50%"> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="chartlight" width="50%">Side Impact Front: Excellent</td> <td class="chartlight" width="50%"> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="chartdark" width="50%">Side Impact Rear: Good</td> <td class="chartdark" width="50%"> </td> </tr> <tr valign="top"> <td class="chartlight" width="50%">Rollover Rating: Good</td></tr></tbody></table>
What are you talking about again?

[Sanis Prent]

I'll give props to Ford Fusion. I had one as a rental when my truck was getting repaired and it was sweet as hell.

Also, it had a crazy hidden compartment in the dash that I could stash my pistol in all incognito like. I felt like James Bond :cool

[Morgan Evanar]

I looked at the Fusion and it's too small for what I need. An Explorer is just too damn big and a bit too glutonous for me.It's too bad we don't get the Fusion in wagon format like the Mazda 6, it would probably be exactly the right size then. If you need something bigger, why aren't you looking at minivans, or maybe a Mazda 5? Also, you'd be suprised how much crap you can fit in a smaller car. I can fit 6 wheels/tires in the hatch of my 240SX plus a floor jack, helmet, a small suitcase, etc. Are you sure you need all that space? SUVs typically have far less cargo room than you would think they would.

[JMK]

Eb in a minivan? HA! That'll be the day! :lol

[Morgan Evanar]

Eb in a minivan? HA! That'll be the day! :lolSadly that is a common attitude of many people who really would be best suited to own one. The 5 is pretty fun to drive. I got the back end to rotate on one in a tight corner. I think I scared the life out of the salesman.

[Neutron]

I'd love to have a van. An old 1980's Chevy fullsize, that I could jack up, paint black and red, and add a spoiler to :D

[Liam Jinn]

I'd love to have a van. An old 1980's Chevy fullsize, that I could jack up, paint black and red, and add a spoiler to :D

A-Team fan?

[Jedieb]

Eb in a minivan? HA! That'll be the day! :lol

My wife has a Honda Odyssey. Let me tell you something, it's friggin' AMAZING. Those of you who think minivans are too big have never driven from VA to FL with my kids. When we only had two we could make the trip in a Saturn and it was barely tolerable. A van gives you space for luggage and all the inevitable crap that you have to bring when you travel with 3 kids. That being said, we got a mini-van and I'll be damned if I'm forced to get another one. My testicles simply won't allow it.

I had to drive from Orlando to Miami last week and I rented a Chevy HHR. The thing was okay, but after years in a Jeep and the Odyssey I felt like I was in a tiny box with craptacular visibility. I'm afraid the Calliber may feel the same way.

[JMK]

That being said, we got a mini-van and I'll be damned if I'm forced to get another one. My testicles simply won't allow it.


eeeeexactly. ;)

I like the Nissan Quest as far as minivans go. The Mazda 5 is weird looking IMO. It looks frail, but that doesn't mean it's crap.

[Park Kraken]

Before I wrecked it in a headon collision, the Ford Windstar '96 that I had was a pretty good minivan. From the time we bought it to the wreck, it never had problems with it's engine, even without the normal checkups, and it was roomy and spacious. Plus, it had good gas mileage and a large tank so we wouldn't need to fill it up as often.