Who's still in school?

[Dasquian Belargic]

It's about the time of year when school starts up again. I was just wondering, for those still in school, what/where are you studying? Are you enjoying it? What do you aim to do with your qualifications?

I'm just about to start the second year of a three-year degree course in English Literature, which basically involves lots of reading and then talking made-up nonsense about what you've just read! I'm not really sure what I'm going to do with the degree once I have it. Probably try for a Masters too. Maybe a post-grad course in Philosophy, or something Journalism orientated.

[Miranda Tarkin]

I am STILL in school. I am forever a student heh.

But seriously... I am starting my first semester as a Nursing student. I'm enrolled in a two year Associates for the RN program! This semester is an intro to Nursing class that deals with assessments, interviewing and teaching aspects of Nursing. It's a 6 week course and if I pas that :p I go onto medical surgical course where it deals with pre/post operation fun! There we get to work on a hospital floor.

I'm also taking Anatomy and Physiology, second semester (deals with organ systems like heart, lungs, digestive etc.) ^^

so ... going to be a Nurse! I hope :)

My plans are to work in Oncology or Surgery ... but who knows what will end up happening as I go through clinicals.

[Zereth Lancer]

Last year of High School for me, WOOT!

Not really studying anything specific, just kind of doing whatever is put before me.

[Ryan Pode]

I've been in school for about 3 weeks now.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Super-Senior here, studying Mechanical Engineering. Shold graduate after this semester. Taking Heat Transfer, Mechanical Lab/Measurements, Pro/E, Evolution for Everyone, and Human Sexuality. Yay gen eds and wellness courses!

[Karl Valten]

Last year of High School for me, WOOT!


Heck yeah. I have one more year left as well.

[Khendon Sevon]

Second year of college at Stevens Inst. of Tech. Studying computer science with a con on game design. This year looks like it's going to be sweet and sour.

I have:

Data Structures & Algorithms II: Talk about the meat and potatoes of computer science. This class is going to be pretty easy for me. It’s in the C programming language (which isn’t object oriented but has structures, so, shouldn’t be too rough since we have those in C++ and I know that language). The teacher is new to Stevens. She’s a she and is teaching ‘bout 20 guys that are all really, really knowledgeable. However, she treats us like CS115 students and isn’t that good at holding everyone’s attention. She’ll learn…

Computational Structures: Imagine the worst math class you’ve ever taken. Now, imagine that the professor is the Dean of your department. Now, imagine that you couple it with a programming language designed for mathematicians, not computer scientists (MIT’s Scheme language, we’re using the professional syntax). Imagine the TA doesn’t know anything. Imagine the professor doesn’t explain anything. I’m afraid. Very afraid. 20% of the students are ones returning from failing it previously.

Elementary Harmony: The professor gives tootsie rolls! He’s awesome! Every class has a 5 minute quiz that’s just a copy of the practice quiz for the chapter from the book (it has answers in the book, so, it’s all ‘bout memorizing, which I’m good at). He’s an awesome guy and went to Julliard for his grad degree.

Computer Organization & Programming: One of my favorite CS professors is teaching the course. He’s from Spain and is insanely cool (‘bout 27 years old with two masters degrees). The course has very few assignments and is light on coding. We’re going to learn an assembly language and code for it on paper (just to get an idea of what happens when higher level code is compiled). Should be an easy, enjoyable class.

Interactive Computer Graphics I: This is a graduate level course. The professor gave me special permission to take it (I don’t have all the requirements). It’s in C++ using the OpenGL API. We’re going to work with DirectX a bit, too, since Vista is going to kill OpenGL (OpenGL will be translated into DirectX live, so, it’ll slow down any code running OpenGL). The prof is one of the best in the field, he’s an insane Bulgarian guy. Our final project is going to be a working game that involves 3D graphics and the ability to interact with the environment (can move items around, throw them, etc). If we have time he’s going to teach us collision and other spiffy stuff. This is my field of concentration. I’m extremely excited :) The professor has already asked me to do research with him (yay). I have to teach myself Maya and fortify my C++ skills for this class.

Outdoor Adventure: My gym course. Basically, there are 6 day trips throughout the semester. I have to go on three of them. I think they're just all day hikes and the like. Time will tell. Sounds like fun.

Next semester is Computer Architecture, Theory of Computation, Elective (Interactive Computer Graphics II), Probability and Statistics, Humanity (dunno yet, maybe Drawing I or Anamation or Modeling or something if I can get special entry permission), Phys Ed (Rock Climbing)

[Morgan Evanar]

Interactive Computer Graphics I: This is a graduate level course. The professor gave me special permission to take it (I don’t have all the requirements). It’s in C++ using the OpenGL API. We’re going to work with DirectX a bit, too, since Vista is going to kill OpenGL (OpenGL will be translated into DirectX live, so, it’ll slow down any code running OpenGL). The prof is one of the best in the field, he’s an insane Bulgarian guy. Our final project is going to be a working game that involves 3D graphics and the ability to interact with the environment (can move items around, throw them, etc). If we have time he’s going to teach us collision and other spiffy stuff. This is my field of concentration. I’m extremely excited :) The professor has already asked me to do research with him (yay). I have to teach myself Maya and fortify my C++ skills for this class.Actually they're not going to do that and changed their mind. FYI.

I'm taking this semester off and going back next semester to finish my AA.

[Khendon Sevon]

Really? Oh, good :) I'm still going to have to learn the DirectX API, though. Never know what you need to... know :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Microsoft has a $99 dollar devkit that you probably don't need because you likely get VisualStudio for minimum expense from your school. I'm not much of a coder myself, but do keep on top of API related things becuase it interests me.

[Khendon Sevon]

Yeah, I have Visual Studio 2005 :) There are a lot of interesting API topics. I'm excited to learn 'bout OpenGL. We're also going to be using Glut as a companion. It allows us to poll the OS for keystrokes, mouse click events, etc. (as far as I know).

This is the most exciting class I've ever taken.

If my final project doesn't end up exploding I'll post it here :) Who knows, it might even be playable.

[Wyl Staedtler]

I finished Massage school last year and a couple of weeks ago started Veterinary Technician Distance Training with a Florida university. In a couple years I'll have my associates degree. I already work for a vet doing tech/surgical assistance work so I figured I ought to get certified. It's fun. :D

[Dasquian Belargic]

Massage school sounds like the coolest school ever.

[Wyl Staedtler]

Yeah 'cause you get to go to class nekkid :D

[Michele Hawkins]

O_o

oh my ...

[Sanis Prent]

I'll have been out of school for two years this month. In a way it is cool, but in other ways I wish I was still a student.

[Park Kraken]

Hmm. I've never really thought about taking up massage school, but it sounds like something interesting. I know I'm a good massuse as it is, and with a professional approach, who knows where I'll be in a few years? Of course, by my defintion, a massage isn't a massage without a little bit of pain involved.

[Danni Reyok]

Umm, I'm a youngen so I just started my second year of High School.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I'm in the same boat as Charley, though I graduated five years ago. I do miss aspects of it, like my 2D and 3D animation classes and my cartooning class though. I remember sneaking Mitch into a few of my cartooning classes :D

And Wyl, you should look into Bowen Therapy; my mom practices it, and she makes good money doing it, too.

[Figrin D'an]

It's kind of hard to believe that I've been out of school for five years already.

Sometimes I miss it, but most of the time, I don't. It's not that I didn't have fun, but I don't like to get caught up in that kind of nostalgia much.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Been out of schooling for 15 years. I dont miss it in the slightest. Plus, the fact I can learn more about a given computing topic with a cup of coffee in one hand and a mouse in the other keeps me out of school or courses. The opportunity cost of Uni simply is too high now - I would lose far more in hourly billing than I could ever get back in having a few letters after my name.

[Mu Satach]

I'm in my fnal year at the Univ. of Utah. Come summer '07 a BA in Film Studies will be mine!!! And then it's off to a local street corner where I'll stand and strum a guitar to pay off the student loans and feed myself. >=}
I'm enjoying the program quite a bit. This term I'm doing old school film making (16mm) with a spring wound motor Bolex. :D My first project I'm going to be double exposing the film to see if I can do some optical effects and play with time. And why am I doing this in a digital HD world??? WHY NOT INDEED! Mainly for fun. I've done all sorts of crud in the computers through my other classes, but I have a deep affection for old school FX and optics. Soooo... I guess more of an art thang instead of an efficient/practical thing. Besides, it's fun to think of fstops and it looks damn cool to be running around with a light meter and tape measure.

I have no plans for the future future. I figure I'll start worrying about that in a few months as the reality of graduation looms ever closer... like a slug slurking in the dark of night inching it way closer to me.

<i>slurk</i>


<i>slurk</i>

[Kraehe Branwen]

I miss going to school. I think things back then were so much easier than the real world is. Working sucks. I'd rather have homework again and be able to learn new things that dont have anything to do with surviving. ~.~

[Ryan Pode]

Am I the only non-exciting major on this forum?! No other Business majors out there?

[Alpha]

First year of University. :) I'm gonna be a language student with a double major in Japanese and Oriental Studies, and a minor in international business. Hopefully I can learn Chinese while I'm at it.

[Khendon Sevon]

Am I the only non-exciting major on this forum?! No other Business majors out there?

Yes ;)

I'm sure most people find my major boring. Computer Science makes people go, "oh, you're one of them." The game design bit makes them go, "oooooh! you're one of them!" All it really means is that I have to take really, really hard courses that I wouldn't have to take otherwise.

[Litika Dor]

Sophomore, just transferred from Cedarville U to King College in Bristol, TN. I am studying--ready for a really long and pointless name?--Technical and Professional Communication, which just makes my professor feel important, I think. The people in my major will one day be writing the manuals you use to install computer programs that will inevitably crash your computer, or that you use to learn not to submerge your toaster in water. ^_^

Actually, I want to work in editing/publishing or possibly write for a gaming magazine. I'm taking an introductory linguistics course right now, though, and I am loving it so much that I'm starting to flirt with the idea of possibly doing something in that field. TechComm majors are supposed to minor in something else, anyway, so that they can specialize their writing in a particular field, so maybe I can find a way to combine the writing and linguistics stuff. Grad school, maybe, once I dig myself out from under the college debt :P That'll be a couple, three decades, then.

I love college. Miss my old school but like the new place alright, and, though I am still wrestling with occasional bouts of panic that this might not be the right major for me, I am content to ride out this semester, at least, and find out for sure.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Eventually you will realize that in the end your major doesn't matter so much as actually getting the degree. ;) Most businesses don't care what your degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper.

Unless, of course, you're trying to get into a specialized field like computer programming or something like that where you need to learn how to do it in college. ;)

[Khendon Sevon]

Eventually you will realize that in the end your major doesn't matter so much as actually getting the degree. ;) Most businesses don't care what your degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper.

Unless, of course, you're trying to get into a specialized field like computer programming or something like that where you need to learn how to do it in college. ;)

I was about to be like, "Hey! You can't get a good CS job unless you know your junk!" But you said it for me :) Most technical jobs require a college degree in that particular field.

That being said, I might be lining up an internship with a well established game publisher/developer in the tri-state area ;) More details as things become more concrete.

School is the reason for my low post count :(

[Litika Dor]

Eventually you will realize that in the end your major doesn't matter so much as actually getting the degree. ;) Most businesses don't care what your degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper.

Yeah, that's what my dad said, too, when I was freaking out about it the other day. I'm really glad to hear you say that, actually, cause I really am worried about painting myself into a career corner...but mostly I hope that if I can just muddle through I can find a job I actually like...or at least don't hate. ;)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

If you get a degree in Communications then you should be able to do pretty much anything you want as long as you have the attitude that the employer is looking for. Except become a computer programmer. Sorry. ;)

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Eventually you will realize that in the end your major doesn't matter so much as actually getting the degree. ;) Most businesses don't care what your degree is in, just that you have that piece of paper.

Unless, of course, you're trying to get into a specialized field like computer programming or something like that where you need to learn how to do it in college. ;)

Since when does computer programming need college? The best I've known simply never saw the inside of a Uni computer lab. In fact most of them coming out of Uni are a complete waste of my time. I want programmers who love code and understand it as a passion, not as a job.

[Khendon Sevon]

Computer Programmer != Computer Scientist.

A programmer sits there and writes code. It might look nasty, they might have to use some scary methods; but, their code works.

A CS understands algorithms and data structures, their implementation, is language independent, understands how to optimize algorithms, has a characteristic style that is easy to read and provides documentation that is exactly as needed in the source code itself, understands the concepts of modularity and object-oriented design, and ensures a living document that describes the functionality of modules and the proper interface for their utilization as well as a history of changes.

There's a big difference.

To put it in terms of money. A programmer has a starting salary of around $28,000/year. A CS major has about $45,000/year. A good CS major (from, say, a well known CS school) can get a starting salary of up to $80,000/year.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Did you pull that definition off your course notes? Dont bother quoting it to me, I've heard it before (In University even) and I know what it truly means - I've been in the industry for almost longer than you have been alive and I've got very good reasons to be cynical. Probably too cynical these days but again, I have reason to be.

A programmer - a REAL programmer does *all* that and more. Programming is an art form and what they dont teach you is how to use that art - how to use the code, how to make it dance. How to make it do something unexpected so your not just some code jockey or some CS who cant solve real world problems. Your CS wont help you when your struggling for inspiration, but programing as an artform will.

A "Computer Scientist" is just a flashy title to impress employers who dont know better. Get some years up and you'll understand that yourself. It's why, even unqualified, I can command the level of hourly rate that would make heads spin. I'm at the point where almost no business other than a very sizable multinational can afford me and if I chose to go back into a corporate office, I'm not selling out for less than half million a year. That's not fantasy land either but frankly I prefer doing what I am right now. I can already bag myself a grand a day so why go and be sucked back into a suit and tie?

I do anything with computers EXCEPT programming because at a far too young age I taught myself machine level coding - IE Assembler for a 4040 and also machine code for the same. I spent 2 months writing a helicopter game and the only reason I didnt give up was that I'm a stubborn MOFO. I simply swore NEVER to do that again because I'm not an artist.

The real thing with computers is not wether you have a title, or come from Harvard. It's about being passionate, its about never stop learning, it's about always reading, pushing yourself in new directions, learning the new technology.... and learning how to seperate the BS from something real.

I debated wether to push post or not and I think I'll regret doing it - I tell very few how much I charge and what I get when I pull my finger out, it actually doesnt sit well to be talking about such things, I'd rather discuss the latest DCCD in a WRX STI - but the fact is I'm proof that College isnt just the only way.

It's also if I was completely honest with myself, one of the reasons my back aches, I dont sleep well and I'm single. There's a price to pay to get where I am and unfortunantly it's bigger than I realised. I'm not sure I like what I've become as a person in certain respects.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Since when does computer programming need college? The best I've known simply never saw the inside of a Uni computer lab. In fact most of them coming out of Uni are a complete waste of my time. I want programmers who love code and understand it as a passion, not as a job.

You know it is possible to take a subject at degree level and be passionate about it :mneh ...even if it is something like computing.

[Khendon Sevon]

a whole lot


I really don't know how to respond. This is my fifth re-write.

So. I’m not going to argue the point. I’m just going to say:

I agree that programmers need to be creative. Artistic is a good word. Then again, everyone does. You can’t be truly successful unless you are artistic and creative. Inventors and innovators rule the world… not people who can spit out mathematical equations.

My professors always emphasize creativity and the ability to mingle it with logic skills and knowledge of the subject.

And:

Anyone that puts his or her mind to anything and really desires it can achieve said desire.

Have fun driving your WRX. I’m going to be leading teams of programmers, artists, and creative individuals using the skills I’ve learned/am learning at my technical institute from amazing professors. Why? Because that's what I'm passionate about.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

You know it is possible to take a subject at degree level and be passionate about it :mneh ...even if it is something like computing.

It's possible yes ..... but they arent the ones who tend to survive well in a Uni enviroment.

Specifically I mean computing. I'm not speaking about anythign else.

Having passion and desire gives you the drive to succeed. The things that lead to success are in the heart - but it's not just the drive and passion that leads to success. There's a load of other intangibles, like the way you talk, the way you interact with poeple, the way you look them in the eye and tell the truth. The ethics that you live your life by. The details you manage, the way you sell yourself.

Even the confidence you have.

What makes a person successful in a chosen field isnt about what school they go to or what letters they have. It's a lot deeper than that - and while yes a lot of field you do need specific education at college, the reasons for success arent about education in the end. It's a lot more.

And success also isnt measured in cars, houses, dollars, etc. How many employees you can command...... it's hard to define really because it's something I struggle to put to words. So for now I wont.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Everyone quantifies success differently, really. What you might see as success another man might see as failure. It doesn't necessarily mean that one of you is better than the other. I just see it as fulfilling your own personal goals, and if those goals happen to include becoming filthy rich then go for it.

Also, I have to say that I don't agree with you on the matter of passionate people being unable to survive the uni environment. If anything, I'd say its the opposite. I live with two drop-outs, who both quit their courses because they simply didn't feel passionate enough about their subjects. Uni isn't just something you can coast through and if you don't have dedication and motivation, you will fail. To make a three or four year commitment to something like that, to invest so much time and money in it, I believe you have to be passionate.

It's good and well to say that papers and what school you went to mean nothing, but in the competitive job market, I'm hard-pressed to believe that. Confidence and such like is important, of course, and no doubt these will be the variables by which employers distinguish one post-graduate candidate from another... however, it seems to me that a degree is a pre-requisite, that people are expected to have now, if only to proove that they are able to commit themselves to something and put in the necessary effort. University is as much a character-building life experience as it is a chance to enrich your knowledge in a particular field.

[Khendon Sevon]

Dasq put it beautifully :)

[Morgan Evanar]

Did you pull that definition off your course notes? Dont bother quoting it to me, I've heard it before (In University even) and I know what it truly means - I've been in the industry for almost longer than you have been alive and I've got very good reasons to be cynical. Probably too cynical these days but again, I have reason to be.

A programmer - a REAL programmer does *all* that and more. Programming is an art form and what they dont teach you is how to use that art - how to use the code, how to make it dance. How to make it do something unexpected so your not just some code jockey or some CS who cant solve real world problems. Your CS wont help you when your struggling for inspiration, but programing as an artform will. I hate to say it but if you don't have a degree you won't even be looked at by 95% of potential employers unless you have a huge portfolio of shipped stuff. At this point they would be a legacy programmer, from the days when computer science was generating new things every week. That's how things work now. Saying a degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on is just false if it's coming from a decent insitution.

A degree will help you get a foot in the door and even elevate your starting pay in many cases. Will it be a wash in the end? Maybe. But you're coming from a decade where computers were so damned new so few people knew even what they were.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Also, I have to say that I don't agree with you on the matter of passionate people being unable to survive the uni environment. If anything, I'd say its the opposite. I live with two drop-outs, who both quit their courses because they simply didn't feel passionate enough about their subjects. Uni isn't just something you can coast through and if you don't have dedication and motivation, you will fail. To make a three or four year commitment to something like that, to invest so much time and money in it, I believe you have to be passionate.

Or it's simply that the fallacy of a degree being mandatory forces people to go through 3 or 4 years of high expense course loads.

No, passion is the last thing that keeps you in University. What keeps most in there is somethign called <i>fear</i>, fear that without that piece of paper, your stuck flipping burgers. Yes, I went into Uni with the fear that if I didnt get a degree I would be sweeping street. Hey you know what? Street sweeping aint that bad.



It's good and well to say that papers and what school you went to mean nothing, but in the competitive job market, I'm hard-pressed to believe that. Confidence and such like is important, of course, and no doubt these will be the variables by which employers distinguish one post-graduate candidate from another... however, it seems to me that a degree is a pre-requisite, that people are expected to have now, if only to proove that they are able to commit themselves to something and put in the necessary effort. University is as much a character-building life experience as it is a chance to enrich your knowledge in a particular field.

I dont see a competitve job market. I dont see Employers wanting pieces of papers. I see instead opportunities that dont need that at all. I see that there's others ways that keep you free of the financial and time burdens. I see a real world that's more educational and more character building than any univeristy.

I count the years at Uni as completely wasted and while I did well when I was there, I realise it was money down the drain - it taught me nothing about my job nor about life, nor about the other things that are far more important. My brother is a qualified Industrial Chemist and you know what he does? Go to your local Cash Converters in London, you might find him manageing the store. But he's markign time till he gets stuck into what he really wants to sell back home. Which I need to be working on too when I get five seconds


I hate to say it but if you don't have a degree you won't even be looked at by 95% of potential employers unless you have a huge portfolio of shipped stuff. At this point they would be a legacy programmer, from the days when computer science was generating new things every week. That's how things work now. Saying a degree isn't worth the paper it's printed on is just false if it's coming from a decent insitution.

A degree will help you get a foot in the door and even elevate your starting pay in many cases. Will it be a wash in the end? Maybe. But you're coming from a decade where computers were so damned new so few people knew even what they were.[

That's all true and I hate that it's so for those short focused employers and a lot of truly talented computer people who shouldnt need to be forced through the BS of a degree. The other BS about degrees is that there are so many CS's coiming out who just dont understand they systems they are working on. Back in the days of mainframes, System engineers truly knew how it all worked and thence knew how to truly program and design. The simple fact is, fewer and fewer coming out of Uni's know god damn anything and I'm the one who has to pick up the pieces. There's fewer and fewer computer professionals that have a bloody clue. What the hell are they teaching them these days??? Is it to them just the money and that's all they did the CS for, the job?

Well they damn well dont know anything. Which just makes me hate this industry more, if that's possible. If it wasnt for other factors, I would have thrown it in years ago.

--

Altho with the fact fewer know their stuff, it makes it easier for me to work what the client sees as magic. Like the huge job list fo the last two weeks the client didnt have a clue was done except for the fact nothign crashes now. That's real skill if I do say so myself, pulling off a major network upgrade with no downtime. You dont learn that at Uni, you learn that being apprenced to a greybeard. I'm a huge fan of apprenticeship because it truly works and you actually get decent employees. These days anyway, if you want big bucks, go be an apprentice doing somethign like plumbing. Plumbers here dont answer the phone for less than 100 bucks an hour. Nor do mechanics, electricians etc. Doing a trade is a great way to become your own boss - and eventually with a bit of intelligence and financial planning, choosing to work at 42 instead of being forced to or being a wage slave.

--

You Chris, I have a deep respect for in this as you have potential. There is a very big difference between actually been able to do the job and a piece of paper, frankly your one of the few in this god forsaken industry who still can do and truly understand the job and what it means. You also challenge me to be better and to remember the stuff that I used to know. You'll be one of the few with a degree in computing worth my time.

Consider that one hell of a compliment.

And now I'm out of this discussion, I got my real love in my life that needs taking care of. And another netowrk to plan out -_-

[Morgan Evanar]

I dont see a competitve job market. I dont see Employers wanting pieces of papers. I see instead opportunities that dont need that at all. I see that there's others ways that keep you free of the financial and time burdens. I see a real world that's more educational and more character building than any univeristy.

I count the years at Uni as completely wasted and while I did well when I was there, I realise it was money down the drain - it taught me nothing about my job nor about life, nor about the other things that are far more important. My brother is a qualified Industrial Chemist and you know what he does? Go to your local Cash Converters in London, you might find him manageing the store. But he's markign time till he gets stuck into what he really wants to sell back home. Which I need to be working on too when I get five seconds Hey, he hasn't e-mailed me yet. ;) I remembered how to do HTML and CSS again.

That's all true and I hate that it's so for those short focused employers and a lot of truly talented computer people who shouldnt need to be forced through the BS of a degree. The other BS about degrees is that there are so many CS's coiming out who just dont understand they systems they are working on. Back in the days of mainframes, System engineers truly knew how it all worked and thence knew how to truly program and design. The simple fact is, fewer and fewer coming out of Uni's know god damn anything and I'm the one who has to pick up the pieces. There's fewer and fewer computer professionals that have a bloody clue. What the hell are they teaching them these days??? Is it to them just the money and that's all they did the CS for, the job?Some of the stuff being taught is pretty good, but every programmer worth his/her salt is self directed. Most places don't teach ASM anymore. While it's not relevant for most modern feild programming, it makes you understand the metal and that is important. Besides, they'res a demand for ASM programmers for older chips in many fields. There is a lot of OOP being taught and that's fine, OOP is very important. There are still some good CS schools that you can't come out of unable to program. However, teaching coders to do proper documentation is so important, and some very "Good" coders create code that no one else can read because they don't propperly document :|

One thing going to school gave me was it forced some discipline and organizational skills. Some people will get by without those, but it's helped over the past few years. You could probably get hired at Google if you've been coding neat stuff since you were ten and have the discipline. It's like anything else, it's as much who you know as what you know.


You Chris, I have a deep respect for in this as you have potential. There is a very big difference between actually been able to do the job and a piece of paper, frankly your one of the few in this god forsaken industry who still can do and truly understand the job and what it means. You also challenge me to be better and to remember the stuff that I used to know. You'll be one of the few with a degree in computing worth my time.

Consider that one hell of a compliment. I dunno if I'm going to have a computing degree. Programming gives me a headache.

[Pierce Tondry]

A degree is becoming more and more a required item. Bachelor's is the minimum qualification for so many jobs now it's devaluing the lower end of the pay scale. Master's degrees have the same value as Bachelor's degrees from the late seventies/early eighties now.

This is not saying a degree's overall value is being reduced. Far from it. There is just a lot more competition out there for those lowlevel white collar jobs. Computer science is no exception: being passionate and self-taught is nice but not a substitute for a degree.

Why is that? Largely because of what a degree tells your employer. That piece of paper helps gauge your knowledge, your commitment, and your ability to be trained against other people coming to an employer looking to be hired. If given a choice between choosing two relatively equal, yet unknown, candidates, an employer is motivated to choose the one with the degree when both do not have one. The only equivalent to schooling is experience, and that is a more tricky animal to come by.

Which is what it boils down to in the end. You can measure success by any yardstick you like, but the most successful understand there's an element of politics to everything they do (including job searching) and they shape their actions accordingly.

[Jecht Tar]

I got a lot of stuff this year, Senor year of High School and all that. I'm homed school so my Mom can heap has much on my as she wants- to her hearts content even. For the most part I've for the usual pack of cards: History, Langauge Arts, Economics, Creation science, and the like. But to change things up a bit I'm taking some classes at a public-type school for homeschoolers. There I'll be taking a Writing Fundementals class and a Drawing class.

Wee for Me!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Good grief, you're making all the home-schoolers look bad with your terrible spelling and mixing up all your words. One might think you were Mark, from that post. ;)

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I was homeschooled, too :p

[Jecht Tar]

Good grief, you're making all the home-schoolers look bad with your terrible spelling and mixing up all your words. One might think you were Mark, from that post. ;)


Nah, it's not that I'm a bad writer. I'm just sticking it to the man by writing outside the box, and possibly off the lines. I'm unique :) I like typos and bad grammar. So... HA!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Did I say you were making us look bad by being a bad writer? :p R C P :)

[Jecht Tar]

*Runs away, crying* :(

[Lilaena De'Ville]

lol!

:glomp

[Jecht Tar]

*Bludgeons Lil with sketchbook* HA!... Nurtz... I got blood all over my drawing assignment...