Iziz City: a Cartographer's Nightmare?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I did up a map before the reset for the City, and I just remembered about it and did a mad search for it.

And, I found it! here it is:
<img src=/forum/attachment.php?s=&postid=773287>

Of course, KOTORII didn't exist at the time and I have no idea what the layout of the city is ACTUALLY supposed to be. Thoughts, suggestions, and other stuff are welcome, plus any landmarks that need to be on it.

[Dasquian Belargic]

It's probably worth keeping in mind that the Iziz you see in KOTOR2 is how Iziz was in the days of the Old Republic. It's quite possible that some things might have changed since then... and anyway, we don't need to be completely true to the source.

That being said, I'll still see if I can get some shots from KOTOR, just so people can have a looksie.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ah, I was hoping you'd see it that way. ;)

Valentine's Bar will be taken off, as that idea never really took off before the reset and doesn't exist now. Well, we could leave it on anyway, as a place to use in RPs I suppose.

LD and her new apprentice Hawkins Grime live in the green area of the map.

[Razielle Alastor]

awesome! :D

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Heh, Them bee pirate dragyns, eh?

I'm going to say that Nate lives someplace in the yellow area, preferably near one or inbetween both space ports.

[Razielle Alastor]

Originally posted by Nathanial K'cansce
... someplace in the yellow area, preferably near one or inbetween both space ports.

-writes down- hehehehe

[Nathanial K'cansce]

o_O

Note to self: they know too much!

[Bette Davis]

We know ALL. >D

[Lilaena De'Ville]

the map attachment was lost in the upgrade, here it is again. I have assumed since the beginning that since Iziz is the only human settlement (minus the illegal alien encampment of 3,00-4,000 mandalorians in the Wilds), that it is very large. Thus, having a slum area is not far-fetched. We're not utopia, we're surrounded by wilderness and depend on imports mostly for our food (logically - we don't have farmland).

Ok here it is, and feel free, yet again, to suggest new areas, improvements, etc.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I suppose I'm more concerned about establishing the general mood of Iziz, than its geography. I don't mind people taking liberties with the locations and such, though it would be nice to be consistent, but it'd be nice if the atmosphere of the city remained the same... or at least changed logically.

The only reason I was a bit iffy about there being 'slums' is probably because of the choice of the word 'slums'. I can't imagine there being a vast difference between the wealth of the people. Sure, some people are traders or whatever, but it's not like there is any nobility besides the people living in the Palace. The Queen seems to have genuine compassion for her people too, so I'd be surprised if she let people live in a slum-like condition. I don't know, I am just rambling?

Speaking of geography, though, there doesn't really seem to be a consistent image of the city. I'm sure I've seen pictures where the Palace has been on top of a really high mountain, whereas in KOTOR it's just at the top of a ramp (the Sky Ramp, which I have mentioned a couple of times as Salem).

[Lilaena De'Ville]

well, I dont' know how high up it is, its just higher up than anything else in the City. ;)

And I don't see Onderon as being very rich as a whole. So having a slum area doesn't seem far fetched to me, as I've said. Onderon is isolated from the rest of the galaxy, and in any society there are people on the bottom. It isn't realistic to turn the City into a utopian society where everyone is happy and well fed.

To me, anyway. ^_^;

[Darth Callidus]

No I'm not suggesting that it's utopian, definitely not. By your reasoning, I don't see how there can be a lot of difference between social classes, in terms of wealth. There isn't really anything that should separate them, like I said, unless they are a) in the army or b) employed by the Palace. Everyone else should be on roughly the same rung of the ladder, since the only kinds of jobs they're likely to have are common trading/tradesman occupations... if that makes sense.

Maybe it's just the Prime Minister in me that wants to get away from the use of the word slum ^_^;

[Miranda Tarkin]

All of the wealth is situated within the Palace and distributed evenly almongst the people. They also can make more money with visitors of course, but this is kinda a communistic society for the most part? or am I wrong?

[Dasquian Belargic]

That's the impression that I got, that everyone (bar the Royals) were on a level playing field.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

communists :grumble

Well, whatever you guys want, I guess. Then the whole place is a slum. ;)

[Dasquian Belargic]

[00:36] holliebelle2: I don't understand how Onderon runs, I guess
[00:37] Lord Van Derveld: i dont think any of us have the same idea about how it runs ^^;
[00:37] holliebelle2: all the wealth is in the Palace and distributed evenly to the people? So no one works and there is no private enterprise? A state run City, entirely? :-p
[00:38] Lord Van Derveld: i would think that people work, but there isnt really any area for specialization besides the military, so its not like people have the opportunity to make a larger amount of money than their neighbours
[00:38] holliebelle2: well, bars, whore houses, perhaps some rooftop food growing facilities...
[00:38] holliebelle2: they can't be entirely reliant on imports, they have to be able to produce something to export
[00:39] holliebelle2: like skins, meat, etc
[00:39] holliebelle2: leathers and leather goods
[00:39] Lord Van Derveld: maybe the palace buys all that stuff up?
[00:39] Lord Van Derveld: leathers for the army
[00:39] holliebelle2: so no private enterprise, all is related to the palace?
[00:39] holliebelle2: anyway I gtg
[00:39] holliebelle2: you and Dani figure something out I guess
[00:39] Lord Van Derveld: ok
[00:40] holliebelle2: everything I had in my mind was before the reset anyway, when I ruled the land :-p Although I assumed not much had changed since then.
[00:40] holliebelle2: I have RPed that there are slums, and I led Grime to RP that as well
[00:40] holliebelle2: so
[00:40] holliebelle2: we need to know
[00:40] holliebelle2: ttyl!
[00:40] Lord Van Derveld: byebye



Anyone? :huh

[Miranda Tarkin]

I'm a wee confused but is Holly upset by this? I don't want to have everything be dependant on me and Jenny first of all, secondly, I have never even said that I agree if there should or shouldn't be slums :p

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think she is just confused, like I am. Obviously we all have different versions of Onderon in our minds. We just need to mesh together our ideas and come up with something that make sense and suits everyones needs.

[Miranda Tarkin]

Well, I can't see how their couldn't be a poor section honestly. As much as Adraudia would try and fix that, there is no way she can make money fall from the sky. Especially since there was a war going on.

I think there is a poorer part of town for those that cant make extra money from foreigners BUT ... the Palace does tend to the poor peeps of course with extra food and stuff if they cant make ends meet?

no yes maybe?

[Dasquian Belargic]

Alright. That sounds fair enough.

I just can't imagine there being this totally shady Mos Eisley-esque slums part of town, that's all. But if other people want that.. :thumbup

[Miranda Tarkin]

I highly doubt there is dealings that severe a la mos eisley in that part of town :lol And since the place is so tightly knit for a City since it is the only one, a lot of illegal dealings would be found out methinks.

Unless some people are good at covering their tracks.. a la the Force :mneh

[Hawkins Grime]

Right, I just pull the trick from the penguins in Madagascar, "You didn't see anything..." and then go about my business.

But honestly, even on some very well connected and secure environments like Military bases, you can go through certain parts during the day but not even police will go there during the night unless they have a disaster level accident to attend to.

And I agree, nothing to the level of Mos Eisley or anything, but the shady business within a market is nearly inevitable. You can't control the vices of men and a black market will always exist when something isn't allowed, thats what smuggling and what not is for.

For the most part, I can see the nice overall look of the environment and what might be considered the slums wouldn't look as bad as what most might associate with physical appearances of 'the slums'. But it consists of an area where the lowlifes gather, because they always do that, and where the impoverished-by-choice find it easier to live and get what they want out of life while being abused themselves. It has nothing to do with how well or how bad the government is really, people do this by themselves unfortunately.

But then again, I can change what I've been rping. I'm very flexible if you guys decide otherwise. I just need to know so I can keep going. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I suppose I am a little frustrated that this is only now coming out, as opposed to when the map was first resurrected in August.

[Miranda Tarkin]

:hug

I thought so and understandable. Is what we talked about okay with you then or no?

[Dasquian Belargic]

Evidently I was the only one with a different point of view, so just keep it the way it is.

[Razielle Alastor]

I guess I always just figured Onderon as remote and although it had a Monarchy, that it's wars had caused a lot of loss? That's just kind of how I had it in mind. You know any city has it's places where people who've suffered losses wind up. Poverty and crime just seem to go along with that, I suppose. War orphans, scarred up angsty ex-military, just sort of seemed logical that people like this would wind up in sad little streets and stuff, I guess.

But if the goverment makes sure everyone has the same amount of stuff evenly distrubuted, I guess it wouldn't be like that? :huh What about refugees and people from other systems, along with the new influx of Mandalorians with ID, lol? You don't think overpopulation could become an issue? :p

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I guess I always just figured Onderon as remote and although it had a Monarchy, that it's wars had caused a lot of loss? That's just kind of how I had it in mind. You know any city has it's places where people who've suffered losses wind up. Poverty and crime just seem to go along with that, I suppose. War orphans, scarred up angsty ex-military, just sort of seemed logical that people like this would wind up in sad little streets and stuff, I guess.

This, and what Hawkins said. :thumbup

[Adraudia Basillie]

:cry my people don't love me 100%

kidding, that's fine. I honestly don't care. I just want everyone happy ^^

[Adraudia Basillie]

Okay, Aminn Pmed me asking if I was interested in RPing in that thread still so I take it that no PM was sent. I am going out for the evening but we really need to finish that PM that Holly started and send it out.

What points do we want to bring up? I am really confused as to the whole Spy thing that Grime brought up :(