Veto on stem cell research bill

[Yog]

Am I the only one absolutely astounded by blog article (http://edition.cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/07/19/stemcells.veto/index.html>this</a>?), Embryonic Stem Cells (ECS) "come from material stored at fertility clinics which is already slated for destruction. Preventing these blastocysts from being used for research won't 'save' them. It simply means they'll be disposed of in a medical waste facility instead of being used to find cures for disease."

So basically, the embryos attempted being 'saved' here would not be saved anyway. If preservation of embryo was a concern, why not ban fertility treatments outright, as pointed out LINK (http://www.drmomentum.com/aces/archives/002532.html>here</a>.)

The competence of politicians these days.. :x

[Razielle Alastor]

The man is evil. End of story.

[Khendon Sevon]

Some people feel they have religious reasons to not support the research.

Religion isn't based on logic. It's faith and belief without proof. So, Bush's actions make sense for him.

For the rest of us it's just another reason to hate the Man.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Not for everyone. You cannot say "the rest of us" when you mean "liberals."

[Dasquian Belargic]

I don't get the logic behind throwing them away rather than using them for something positive. Maybe if they were potentially going to be used in pregnancy, but they're just being dumped... wasted. :\

[Byl Laprovik]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Not for everyone. You cannot say "the rest of us" when you mean "liberals."

Well then lets get it right out and define what you mean when you say "liberal"

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Not for everyone. You cannot say "the rest of us" when you mean "liberals."

I would say liberals and moderates as they both supported Stem Cell research. Heck throw in several conservatives namely Mcain, Frist and Specter who all voted for it. It is a bad choice by Bush, IMO. Those embryos he is talking about 75% of them are destroyed anyway so why not use them?

[Yog]

Originally posted by Khendon Sevon
Some people feel they have religious reasons to not support the research.

Religion isn't based on logic. It's faith and belief without proof. So, Bush's actions make sense for him

I agree, that might explain why he did veto the bill. He thought it was for good. But then he must be misinformed how this works. In the speech, he argues that embryo would be destroyed for research, when its known this would happen anyway. If that is the case, he and his advisory staff do not have a clue what they are doing. Its not only a question of faith, but also a sign of incompetence.

There is also big pressure from various religious movements to stop medical research on stem-cells. You gotta wonder if this was a factor as well in his decision.


You cannot say "the rest of us" when you mean "liberals."

You don't have to be liberal to disagree with his policies, or dislike him as politician. He has a sinking popularity even in his own party. Personally, I don't care so much wether its a republican or democrat being president for the united states, but I do care about wether they are good at doing their job and make sound decisions. If it was someone like John McCain running the country, you would likely not heard so many complaints. In Norway, Bush is concidered worse than Richard Nixon.

What really makes this veto so outragous though, thousands of lives may be lost because of this decision.

[Droo]

Just another nail in the coffin. I despair of the moronic self-righteous who dominate world politics today.

[Razielle Alastor]

Originally posted by Droo
Just another nail in the coffin. I despair of the moronic self-righteous who dominate world politics today.

:hug you win a brownie!

Yeah, its gone beyond "Lets make America a Christian Nation" and trample the Bill of Rights, into Fascism territory. Not everyone who lives in this country is Christian, thats why America was founded to save us from people like him.

[Khendon Sevon]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Not for everyone. You cannot say "the rest of us" when you mean "liberals."

Pff. Only "liberals" want to save human lives through science?

Labels are so over rated.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
I agree, that might explain why he did veto the bill. He thought it was for good. But then he must be misinformed how this works. In the speech, he argues that embryo would be destroyed for research, when its known this would happen anyway. If that is the case, he and his advisory staff do not have a clue what they are doing. Its not only a question of faith, but also a sign of incompetence.

There is also big pressure from various religious movements to stop medical research on stem-cells. You gotta wonder if this was a factor as well in his decision.



You don't have to be liberal to disagree with his policies, or dislike him as politician. He has a sinking popularity even in his own party. Personally, I don't care so much wether its a republican or democrat being president for the united states, but I do care about wether they are good at doing their job and make sound decisions. If it was someone like John McCain running the country, you would likely not heard so many complaints. In Norway, Bush is concidered worse than Richard Nixon.

What really makes this veto so outragous though, thousands of lives may be lost because of this decision.
You are right, if they are going to waste why not use them. I really don't know what is, I am guessing it the christian extreme right who thinks they are destroying life. I bet they don't even know those embroyes are destroyed anyway.

[Yog]

In other news, Arnold Schwarzenegger went ahead and granted a $150M loan to accelerate stem cell research:
http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/news/breaking_news/15084544.htm

In the meanwhile, some european countries are trying to follow Bush' example and stop EU funding for stem cell research:
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20060720/wl_nm/science_eu_stemcells_dc

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well right now the EU has very little power to stop individual countries from doing anything like this. I doubt England or France would stop. Especially France they are so anti-Catholic right now they do it just to snup there noses at the Church.

[Yog]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Well right now the EU has very little power to stop individual countries from doing anything like this. I doubt England or France would stop. Especially France they are so anti-Catholic right now they do it just to snup there noses at the Church.

Thats what I am thinking as well. Although, its sad this policy view is spreading on international level.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well with Germany it seems to have to do with its Nazi past. I guess they are still scared of abuse. The other countries I am guessing is religious. Poland and Austria are very catholic I know that.

[Yog]

Quoting this email sent to the White House from a poster at somethingawful.com. He is suffering of Cystic Fibrosis. A powder keg of a mail giving a very emotional and strong message, although, I think it will probably end up in the white house junk mail folder.. :(


I supported you when you attacked Afghanistan -- my uncle was killed in the World Trade Center saving lives on the FDNY; my father supported the WTC recovery efforts and searched for his brother days thereafter.

I supported you when you attacked Iraq -- I believed in your vision of modernization of the Middle East and your faith in Iraqis to take back their country as an ally and friend.

But I can no longer support you: I am a sufferer of Cystic Fibrosis, and you have likely signed my death certificate.

Decisions you've made regarding self defence and national security hold no candle to your recent revelation of lack of common sense. I have often been in denial about your administration's ability to be rational; though it is not until today the truth is laid bare before me and I doubt no more. For shame! Your veto of stem cell research has sentenced many Americans to their death, and many, many more to a life of hardship and suffering without hope for a cure of their disease. All in the name of nothing?

No. Not for nothing. All in the name of religious fundamentalism, the very same evil you fight in Iraq and Afghanistan, the very same evil that killed my uncle, the very same evil that kills 20 year old men today in Lebanon as I type this, for this same evil you fight an irrational battle. The face of public opinion opposes you yet your irrational, unproven religious beliefs take precedence over the will of the people. George Washington would shun you. Jefferson would curse you. Franklin would turn his back against you. With this decision you lay down a clear division against the majority of our representatives who voted for this bill, from all 50 states, and it will forever be a blemish on your name.

I respect the veto power of the executive branch, but I do not respect it when it motivated by religion, ignorance, and fear. Shame on you, Mr. Bush, all of us who could be cured would have helped you and supported you, but you tossed us aside to secure your base of mental cave-dwellers.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I hope he also wrote that out longhand and snailmailed it in addition to emailing it.

I'm not exactly the most politically inclined, as I tend to operate on common sense. So when I read stuff like this I lose just a little more faith in the human race and the possibility that we might actually be worth a damn in 10 or so years.

[Khendon Sevon]

In 10 or so years I'll be in a forest fighting off devil women with a broadsword stolen from a ren. fair.

Orrr, not.

Many of the history teachers and professors I have had compare Modern America to the declining Roman Empire.

It comes down to leadership.

We need new leaders.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is interesing about the Roman Empire of course the decline of that great Empire took almost 300 years. As for that email yes that case is very heartbreaking. I have a cousin who recenlty has been paralized in a car wreck. He is one of these people who needs the research, his father was a Bush supporter, but now he hates him.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

This makes me want to watch that South Park Christopher Reeve episode :)

[Ryan Pode]

Not all hope is lost.

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2006/07/19/politics/main1818040.shtml





A day after President Bush vetoed expanded federal funding of embryonic stem cell research, the governors of Illinois and California each announced moves to make cash available for the research, which critics oppose because the process involves the destruction of human embryos.

California Gov. Arnold Schwarzenegger on Thursday authorized a $150 million loan to fund the state's stem cell institute, which has been stalled by lawsuits.

Schwarzenegger, a Republican who has been trying to put distance between himself and the unpopular president as he seeks re-election this year, said the state cannot afford to wait to fund the critical science associated with stem cells.

"I remain committed to advancing stem cell research in California, in the promise it holds for millions of our citizens who suffer from chronic diseases and injuries that could be helped as a result of stem cell research," Schwarzenegger said in a letter to his finance director.

The state's voters created the California Institute for Regenerative Medicine in 2004 when they passed a ballot measure that authorized $3 billion over 10 years for stem cell research.

Lawyers with ties to anti-abortion and anti-tax groups have sued, arguing that the institute is unconstitutional.

On April 21, a Superior Court judge ruled the institute was a legitimate state agency. But if opponents continue to contest the agency in court, they could hold up the institute's financing until at least next year.

Also Thursday, Illinois Gov. Rod Blagojevich, a Democrat, announced Thursday that he is diverting $5 million from the state budget for stem cell research, despite repeated objections from state legislators.

"Investing in research that can save lives and prevent serious illnesses is more than a sound public health strategy, it's our moral obligation," he said.

The money will come out of administrative funds already set aside for the state Department of Healthcare and Family Services, Blagojevich said.

Last year Blagojevich used an executive order to spend $10 million for stem cell research, a move that caught many state lawmakers off guard. Illinois lawmakers have previously voted against stem cell research, and this spring they did not take up the governor's proposal for $100 million in funding over five years.

Legislators of both political parties criticized his move Thursday.

"Any time this happens, it's not good for the process when you circumvent the legislative body and the voice of the people," said Democratic Rep. John Bradley.

Embryonic stem cells are building blocks that turn into different types of tissue. Scientists hope to use them someday to regenerate damaged organs or other body parts and cure diseases. Some oppose such research because it involves the destruction of human embryos.

[Jedieb]

That was the only veto he's used in 5 years. Bush hasn't vetoed a single spending bill while he's been in office. That's why fiscal conservatives are yet another group that has good reason to tear him down.