Israel attacks Lebanon

[Jedi Master Carr]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060714/ap_on_re_mi_ea/lebanon_israel_53;_ylt=AkR.Z3NHLLAJQmNH2_pQNcsUvio A;_ylu=X3oDMTBiMW04NW9mBHNlYwMlJVRPUCUl
The Middle East is in slight turmoil right now. This all started when Hezbollah captured 2 Israeli troops. Israel decided to get them back by invading Lebanon and bombing Beirut. Right now they are shelling the city, the suburbs pretty bad. Personally, I think they are being way too agressive for two soliders. I think they should have done something (air strikes on Hezbollah targets etc), but bombing Beirut is just nuts. Also there is a danger if Israel goes too far and bombs Syria it could start a regional war. Iran has promised that they will help Syria if Israel attacks them. This is just a powder keg ready to blow. I really have no idea what should be done.

[JMK]

That whole area is a ticking time bomb. How long can tensions in that area be continually swept under the rug? It seems that every week someone else gets involved and starts lobbing missles at one another.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it seems that way, it is just a rough part of the world.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

In northern Israel, 220,000 people hunkered down in bomb shelters amid Hezbollah's rocket barrage.

At least 50 rockets hit seven towns and communities in Israel, including Safad and Nahariya — where two people were killed a day earlier. Since Wednesday, 61 Israelis have been hurt in the rocket fire.

The Israeli offensive was causing political waves in Lebanon, with some anti-Syrian politicians accusing Hezbollah of dragging the country into a costly confrontation with Israel.

No kidding. They most certainly did. I hope Israel wipes them off the face of the earth.

[Ryan Pode]

5 to 1 this starts World War III.


Israel hits Syria. Iran hits Israel. U.S. hits Iran. North Korea tries to hit U.S., hits Japan.

[Jedi Master Carr]

good luck because they will just hide in Syria until its over. As long as Syria and Iran are around groups like Hezbollah and Hamas will be around.

[Khendon Sevon]

In non-fiction war, there is no "right" or "good" side.

Israel is just as "evil" or as "good" as the other nations in the region.

What the Greek media was showing was far more disturbing than what I've seen so far now that I'm back in America (Home of the free? But no freedom of press, maybe). They showed the results of the Israeli attacks.


http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5181520.stm


On Thursday, the United States vetoed a UN resolution calling on Israel to halt its military operations in Gaza.

Washington's UN ambassador, John Bolton, said the resolution laid disproportionate blame on Israel for the current crisis.

Ten Security Council members voted in favour of Qatar's motion, while four abstained.

Israel has rejected calls for a ceasefire, and says it will not enter into negotiations for Cpl Shalit's release.


You'd think they'd talk to the guys who have him if they really want him back... instead they're shooting.

They're using the guy as a reason. That's all.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
No kidding. They most certainly did. I hope Israel wipes them off the face of the earth.

Hey, not like Israel also fires rockets into a crowded marketplace killing women and children, or bombs civilian homes. Or attacks airports, or cuts of thousands of Palestinians from any hope of work or uses RPG's against kids throwing rocks because they got no hope of a future......

Israel was run by a known terrorist by the name of Ariel Sharon, who was every bit as evil as Yassar Arafat not that long ago. Dont Let Free Repulic or Fox News blind you to the realities here - Oh yes Lebanon and Palestine are run by two terrorist organisations but Isreal's military and leaders are every bit as bad.



What the Greek media was showing was far more disturbing than what I've seen so far now that I'm back in America (Home of the free? But no freedom of press, maybe). They showed the results of the Israeli attacks.

Ahhh yes. American media is A-Class terrible. That was one of the things I truly hated in the USA, how utterly pathetic it really is to view first hand.

When Fox is thought of as a reliable and honest news source, you got serious problems. I'm glad that ratbag Murdoch left Australia and took his lying scumbag company with him.


You'd think they'd talk to the guys who have him if they really want him back... instead they're shooting.

They're using the guy as a reason. That's all.

I bet a lot of this also is being engineered by Iran - support Hezbollah and Hamas, destabilise the region right when the USA cant really do much about it due to their fools errand in Iraq....

Israel were fools to escalate it this far.

[Ryan Pode]

Israel had a situation like this not a month ago. They tried to talk then. And do you honestly think a organization like Hezbollah is open for peaceful negotiations?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'm not saying that targeting market places or civillians is a good idea. But when you're dealing with terrorists sometimes they make it really hard to tell the difference. ON PURPOSE.

If any other country was in the same situation they would retaliate and it would be considered justified. Why not when it is Israel fighting back?

[Khendon Sevon]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
If any other country was in the same situation they would retaliate and it would be considered justified. Why not when it is Israel fighting back?

No they wouldn't. In 1979 Iranian students took 66 American hostages. That's 63 more than we're talking about here and these ones were civilians, not soldiers. We didn't bomb Iran, did we? We attempted to send in a rescue team, we tried to negotiate. Guess what? The hostages were released. All of them.

Additionally, Turkey and other nations have had citizens taken hostage by Iraq resistance forces and haven't made a hail-Mary play at them.

If that weren't enough, Hezbollah already said it wants to negotiate.

The majority of the UN wants Israel to stop their warlike behavior and come to the table, the guys with the hostages want to come to the table. It's Israel being bellicose.

You might point to the rocket attacks that are occurring. Well, guess what? Those are militia groups using homemade rockets that can barely do anything. Israel, on the other hand, is using strategic bombing, carpet combing, and missile attacks of their own that are causing far more deaths.

On top of that, borders have been closed and thousands of Palestinians are stranded away from their homes. Already people have died from heat exhaustion and other complications.

Israel has invaded Palestinian territory in raids meant to free Cpl Gilad Shalit but has killed both civilians and militants alike without result. There are still Israeli forces remaining in parts of the Gaza Strip.

That’s not all. Israel has attacked and destroyed bridges and power stations that are vital to civilians. Six Israeli human rights groups have appealed to the Israeli justice system demanding that human aid be allowed (http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5169996.stm).

It’s a power play, nothing more.

Let me add:

Why does America support Israel?

First, Israel is a democracy. Good for them!

Second, they're our allies. That means a lot to us because they provide a source of intelligence and control for the region. It's like having a perminent military base near potential threats.

Third, they're a wealthy, technologically advanced nation that purchases tons of military goods from the United States. Not only that, they help build our military weapons! They build our tanks, they get to keep some in payment. Good deal.

Why does everyone else pretty much not support them:

First, a lot of nations won't say it, but they view Israel's claim to their territory as shaky. That doesn’t mean they want to throw everyone out like what happened to the Palestinians that used to live there. No, it just means they sympathize with the other side.

Second, Israel has been committing as many atrocities and warlike actions as any of its neighbors. They have developed nuclear technology, they have armed themselves to the teeth, and they have used their armies time and time again.

Third, America vetoes everything the UN tries to do to Israel. You think that makes everyone feel good? No way.

Fourth, fuel nations are friends, not enemies.

Fifth, other nations have seen how America and Israel try to heavily influence the region they're in. This forced attitude and gun-point diplomacy doesn't fly. This is similar to my second point, really.

There are counter point for everything, of course. This is war, basically. Whoever wins get to decide what's right and what's wrong.

Good guys always win... because they get to write the history books.

[Dalamar DeSang]

First of Khendon how can you compare Iranian students to Hamas. Of course they cry peace, peace. If peace was what they wanted why kidnap in the first place. Like Lil said they say they want peace all the time. They claim they want talks all the time. Its the same old song and dance UN bull shite. Actions speak louder than words.. Israel has had enough. Its war its ugly on every side. But the Hamas are fanatical they are not students. They do not negoatiate. Its there way or its WAR!! Thats there negotioation. Not to be insulting but your comparison doesn't fly. Also those people that sell us oil are not our friends a vast majority hate the white devil american. But they don't hate our money. They figure they will take our cash and use it against us.


You might point to the rocket attacks that are occurring. Well, guess what? Those are militia groups using homemade rockets that can barely do anything. Israel, on the other hand, is using strategic bombing, carpet combing, and missile attacks of their own that are causing far more deaths.


Hmnn American's are better prepared than Sudam's people. But hey homemade bombs don't make them any less deadly people still die. So your upset because Israel's defense's are better? There responce more efficient. That shows you the caliber of the people. Would you attack a sleeping lion if there was not some serious hate there. Then claim every time you make the lion mad. I want to talk. Look UN brother I want to talk. Why won't Israel listen. Who is the UN. to dictate what countries should and shouldn't defend themselve's?

[Khendon Sevon]

Actually, I'm not upset at all. I'm making an analysis. There's no emotion involved. Chill.

My point was that Israel is using the hostage takings as a means to an end. Sure they're angry people have been taken. However, that does not justify their actions in any way shape or form.

The militia organizations kidnapped the individuals in question (soldiers) so that they could trade them for prisoners that Israel has. It's that simple.

You’ll notice the government didn’t perform the kidnappings, either. Of course, people will say the government is supporting the militia organizations. In a way, they are. Then again, it’s like supporting American soldiers in the revolution. The sides view the fight as an inevitability to decide their future freedom.

The incursions into Palestine and Lebanon and bombings are what have caused the missile attacks. They really shouldn't even be called missile attacks. They're unguided rockets and not even all of them have explosives.

As I’ve said, the point in showing the disparity between military/militia actions is to display the overzealous use of military force and disregard for diplomatic action.

Your comparison between "Sundam's people" (Iraqis, I guess) and the Palestinians and Lebanese is astute, however. Both groups are defending their nations against hostile foreign invaders.


Originally posted by Dalamar DeSang
Would you attack a sleeping lion if there was not some serious hate there. Then claim every time you make the lion mad. I want to talk. Look UN brother I want to talk. Why won't Israel listen. Who is the UN. to dictate what countries should and shouldn't defend themselve's?

Um. I thought the entire point of having the UN and diplomats and such was to prevent wars?

Oh, and Israel should listen to the UN since it's an international body of peers that they belong to.

[Pierce Tondry]

You missed one point in your original analysis Khendon. If you are an American Jew, you are granted automatic citizenship in Israel. That's a huge tie to the US right there, and one reason America supports Israel tooth and nail like it has.

[Khendon Sevon]

Ah, yes, that too :) Forgot about that one. Danke.

[Yog]

I agree with Khendon's analysis here. Its important to remember there are extremists on every side. In Norway, we call these kind of brute force tactics "shooting sparrows with a cannon", and Israel has been doing that a lot over the years. If capturing two soldiers is enough to spawn a war, there really never can be peace in the region.

[Ryan Pode]

One interesting thing I heard of the radio this morning heading into work from an analyst is that he believes that all this Hezbollah actions the last week or so is Iran telling the U.S. to back off the nuclear issues as Iran is a big backer of Hezbollah and Hamas.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is interesting Ryan, I wouldn't say that is unlikely, knowing Iran. I just hope we can get a cease fire soon and work out some kind of peace in the region.

[Pierce Tondry]

I'm not too acquainted with the politics of the region, but what I do know is that business is driven much farther by stability than it is by turmoil. As long as the area continues to be the mess it is, it will have a rough time developing its productive capability.

That said, I'm wondering if India will end up playing a role in Middle Eastern affairs.

[Ryan Pode]

I was reading the AP wire and one of the Syrian ministers is accusing the US and Israel of conspiring to invade the whole area.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Pierce Tondry
I'm not too acquainted with the politics of the region, but what I do know is that business is driven much farther by stability than it is by turmoil. As long as the area continues to be the mess it is, it will have a rough time developing its productive capability.

That said, I'm wondering if India will end up playing a role in Middle Eastern affairs.

India is too far away to play much of a role, besides their religion hurts it. The hindus aren't liked in the region. Right now Iran is building itself up as the super power in the region, especially if they get nukes.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

India is both Hindu and Muslim actually.

[O.W. Outcast]

None of this surprises me it has been going on for so long. It goes so far back into history even before america and most of the eroupean countries where even known. America or Iran being behind it all is all a scapegoat from the real underling problem.

I will now quote george Carlon to explain what it's all about.

"Do you Belive in god. NO!
Bang your dead.

Do you Belive in god. NO!
Bang your dead.

Do you Belive in god. Yes!
Do you believe in my God. No!
Bang your dead."

There war is over who's god is real and whos isn't. None of them have the sense to realize that there God is the same person and Just because you call him by a different name doesn't mean he is a different god. Some day soon it will all end. If you haven't noticed I'm firm believer in armagedon and the end of times. This is just part of it course.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Cirrsseeto Raurrssatta
India is both Hindu and Muslim actually.
India is more Hindu I say like 75%. The muslims have a huge hatred of the Hindus because of Kashmir.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

Yes but that is not the issue here.

[Jedi Master Carr]

True but the comment was India having some influence over the middle east which is not going to happen because of the distance and the issues with Kashmire.

[Khendon Sevon]

I think the government/world needs a "common sense" rule :) It worked for fleeters.

[Mitch]

Yeah, but sense these days is anything but common.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Like with Katrina our govt. is looking we have morons runing it.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060718/ap_on_re_mi_ea/mideast_fighting_evacuation;_ylt=AjkZysBnBuKiBAib0 JqYBFpvaA8F;_ylu=X3oDMTA2Z2szazkxBHNlYwN0bQ--
Most European countries have everybody out, Canada, Brazil and Australia as well. We only have like 350 and we are charging 150 bucks to those wanting to leave. That is disgraceful. These our are citizens we should take them home for free, considering what is going on.

[JMK]

Hasn't the Government changed their position on that now and are getting people out 'for free' now?

The mere fact that they were charging for this at any point is disgraceful though.

[Khendon Sevon]

They're looking like morons?
Pff.

That's because they are morons.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Hasn't the Government changed their position on that now and are getting people out 'for free' now?

The mere fact that they were charging for this at any point is disgraceful though.
Yeah because members of congress republicans and democrats, complained. They then had to change that. It was still disgraceful to even think about it. It be like charging people money to evacuate from a hurricane.

[Khendon Sevon]

NOOO! They got the shield generator!

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5206110.stm

[Khendon Sevon]

He said that in order to prevent casualties among Israeli soldiers battling Hezbollah militants in southern Lebanon, villages should be flattened by the Israeli air force before ground troops moved in.

He added that Israel had given the civilians of southern Lebanon ample time to quit the area and therefore anyone still remaining there could be considered a Hezbollah supporter.

Where do you go if that place is the only area you've lived in your entire life and you have no means of moving and no one to go to? I can't imagine the villagers I know in Greece moving out of their villages, I can imagine how difficult it must be in a warzone.



Foreign ministers from key countries - including the US, Britain and regional powers - attended emergency talks on the crisis in Rome on Wednesday.

They did not call for an immediate ceasefire, vowing instead to work with the "utmost urgency" for a sustainable truce.

"We received yesterday at the Rome conference permission from the world... to continue the operation," Israeli Justice Minister Haim Ramon said.


Uh, the US, Britain, and "Regional Powers" do not seem like the world. Wouldn't the U.N. be considered "the world" and aren't almost all of its members calling for Israel to cease the attacks?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5219360.stm