NBA Playoffs

[Jedieb]

Like many of you, I haven't been paying too much attention to the NBA playoffs. But Cleveland's stunning road win in Detroit tonight should open a few eyes. LeBron and the Cavs are now up 3-2 and have the defending Eastern Conference champs on the ropes. Meanwhile, the defending champion Spurs are on the brink as well. NBA Coach of the Year has introduced an interesting concept to Mark Cuban's Mavs; defense. The game has just tipped off and after watching Lost on Tivo I'll probably watch the second half.

Best part of the playoffs, Kobe is gone!

[jediSamson]

UUGGHHHH, so tired of Lebron Hype could spit nails. 6'8 and can dunk big whoopppppp, can score 30 points on 30 attempts again, big whhoopppppp,The NBA is playing people for suckers on all the LETS let the next coming show out UUUGGGHHHHHH!!!!!! sorry , just can't stand false hype.. continue. :)


btw: Kobe is way over rated as well, Give me Derek, tim or nash any day.

end rant.:angel

[Liam Jinn]

Lebron hype - it's well deserved. He's what, 19, 20? He's just been in the Pro's for a couple of years, and he's holding his own, if not reshaping his team. He's an excellent player, but he definentally needs to focus more, but that comes with experiance. Once he's in the zone, there's nothing but 'lebron this' and 'lebron that', so I'd keep track of this kid and see how he developes, especially in the next few years.

[JMK]

The NBA must love this. In a league where individual stars are bigger and more important than the teams (a concept I will never agree with or be a fan of), they must be over the moon that Lebron is on the verge of knocking off the champs. They must also love that the Mavs, all about flash and sizzle are also poised to knock off the 'bland, boring' Spurs.

I haven't followed the NBA in years, probably a decade even, and even though I think the Lebron story is pretty compelling, I'm still not that interested.

[jjwr]

There is no offense intended with this but if your a fan of hoops and know about the game and have actually watched what Lebron does then there is no way you can think he's over-hyped/over-rated. He is incredible. Like him or hate him you can't deny what he's doing and how he's doing it.

I was too young to care about Jordan coming into his own in the 80's, to me this is just like that experience. Its lame to say it but as the commercials are saying, I'm a Witness.

Lebron doesn't just "dunk" or throw up tons of shots, he's efficient, he hustles, he works the glass and passes the ball. In the playoffs he's averaging 46.4 Minutes per game...think that about, games are 48 minutes long. Shooting 48%, scoring 31 per game, 6.3 assists and almost 8 boards a game. Only once in the playoffs has he taken 30 shots and that was last night.

As for the Mavericks, these aren't nearly the Mavs of the past few years, the flashy offense is gone and they are much more sound then they used to be. Very good and very dangerous team. They came within a missed putback last night of sending the Spurs home after 5 games.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I haven't been watching much myself, although I am hoping both Cleveland and Dallas win in game six, it would make a much more interesting playoffs, IMO. Too bad the Clippers are down 3-2.

[Ryan Pode]

Lebron beat the Wizards. Rah.

And don't hate on Kobe. Against the Suns he played masterful ball. Particularly that game 5 buzzer-beater of his. Spectacular.

[jediSamson]

Originally posted by jjwr
There is no offense intended with this but if your a fan of hoops and know about the game and have actually watched what Lebron does then there is no way you can think he's over-hyped/over-rated. He is incredible. Like him or hate him you can't deny what he's doing and how he's doing it.

I was too young to care about Jordan coming into his own in the 80's, to me this is just like that experience. Its lame to say it but as the commercials are saying, I'm a Witness.

Lebron doesn't just "dunk" or throw up tons of shots, he's efficient, he hustles, he works the glass and passes the ball. In the playoffs he's averaging 46.4 Minutes per game...think that about, games are 48 minutes long. Shooting 48%, scoring 31 per game, 6.3 assists and almost 8 boards a game. Only once in the playoffs has he taken 30 shots and that was last night.

As for the Mavericks, these aren't nearly the Mavs of the past few years, the flashy offense is gone and they are much more sound then they used to be. Very good and very dangerous team. They came within a missed putback last night of sending the Spurs home after 5 games. the fg % is completly and totally (or was at one time)tallied by the team, I/m glad someone broought this up. I was and have kept up now and then(when time allowed) on this VERY subject on a few of the games this year and the fg% that they have given on 3 games were off by the avg of 6 misses, yes they can not fudge the points but they can fudge the amounts of shots. Now, could it have been just human error?? sure, but I doubt it. Also keep in mind that when you run an Offense through anybody and they wil be the prime factor of the team and you will have the chance to have x amount of shots and x amount of assist Specially when other teams are giving you WAY!!!! to much credit and double teaming you, and also when the NBA is telling you to "take it easy and help make him look good"

ANYBODY (thats a decent player)could do what Lebron is doing if given the same situation(he's 21 )


And keep in mind that MOST of his fg% avg is dunks(very nice dunks) no doubt , but at 6'4-6'8 if you can't do great dunks well......You know that , your 6'6 and I'm sure you have done your share of double clutch rim banging dunks.

NOW MAKE NO MISTAKE, he has had a few really good games, but so has MANY players coming off the bench and they are just your avg everyday player. So anyway, people tend to believe hype, seen enough ball played, played enough ball to know talent. is Lebron good, Sure, is he great ROTFLMBO!!!! not even close.Lebron will go as far as the , ads, hype, media and sponsors will take him, better than avg talent not needed when you have those things going for you.But than again, thats my opinion, when he can do what BIRD, DUCAN (who's off this year) nash, and even magic, I'll be impressed of course I highly doubt he cares what any of us think :\

BTW: no offense taken, we all have what we perseve as fact in our minds :D

[Morgan Evanar]

Then how come Scotti Pippen said year 3 Lebron is better than year 3 Jordan? Lebron is not hype.

[Jedieb]

LeBron's great, but Scottie's just plain wrong. Jordan Year 3 was better than LeBron right now. I'm pretty sure MJ's Year 3 was when he beat Cleveland with that clutch jumper over Ehlo. Jordan did have the benefit of playing under Dean Smith at Carolina so he had much more experience than LeBron. I think you can make an argument that LeBron at age 21 is better than Jordan at 21, but again, one's in his 3rd pro season and the other is still at college, so it's not a fair comparison.

I think the kid is amzing, but he reminds me more of Magic than MJ. He's a great passer and like Magic, he's a big man that can handle the ball like a point guard. Detroit and Cleveland are locked in a typical low scoring East affair right now, but Detroit looks awful. They shouldn't even be in this position. If this game keeps going back in forth I think Cleveland will be able to pull it out at the end.



And don't hate on Kobe. Against the Suns he played masterful ball. Particularly that game 5 buzzer-beater of his. Spectacular.
Yeah, the way he pouted and refused to put up a fight in the second half of that game 7 was really masterfull. It was pathetic. You go out shooting, you don't pout and refuse to put up shots just because you want to send management, fans, or the media a message. Kobe will NEVER win another championship. People who want to elevate him above Jordan need to get a grip. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his championship teams! Shaq won every single one the Finals MVP awards when they won. Jordan won all 6 and the only time any other Chicago Bull could come close to laying a claim to that trophy was Rodman during the Seattle series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
LeBron's great, but Scottie's just plain wrong. Jordan Year 3 was better than LeBron right now. I'm pretty sure MJ's Year 3 was when he beat Cleveland with that clutch jumper over Ehlo. Jordan did have the benefit of playing under Dean Smith at Carolina so he had much more experience than LeBron. I think you can make an argument that LeBron at age 21 is better than Jordan at 21, but again, one's in his 3rd pro season and the other is still at college, so it's not a fair comparison.

I think the kid is amzing, but he reminds me more of Magic than MJ. He's a great passer and like Magic, he's a big man that can handle the ball like a point guard. Detroit and Cleveland are locked in a typical low scoring East affair right now, but Detroit looks awful. They shouldn't even be in this position. If this game keeps going back in forth I think Cleveland will be able to pull it out at the end.


Yeah, the way he pouted and refused to put up a fight in the second half of that game 7 was really masterfull. It was pathetic. You go out shooting, you don't pout and refuse to put up shots just because you want to send management, fans, or the media a message. Kobe will NEVER win another championship. People who want to elevate him above Jordan need to get a grip. Kobe wasn't even the best player on his championship teams! Shaq won every single one the Finals MVP awards when they won. Jordan won all 6 and the only time any other Chicago Bull could come close to laying a claim to that trophy was Rodman during the Seattle series.

I agree it was Shaq that won those titles for the Lakers. He is the reason the Heat are in the position they are in.

[Ryan Pode]

I'm not saying Kobe is MJ or anything close. But he is spectacular to watch, just ask Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Brian Cook.

[JMK]

The closest traits that Kobe has to MJ is the killer instinct. The desire to want the ball AND the confidence to know he will sink the winning shot. Where they differ, however, is that MJ did it to win. He did it for the rings. Kobe is doing it so that he can be acknowledged as being better than MJ. It's not for the rings, it's for Kobe.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
I'm not saying Kobe is MJ or anything close. But he is spectacular to watch, just ask Kwame Brown, Lamar Odom, and Brian Cook.

I didn't mean to imply that you said that, but people like Marc Jackson have been throwing that around and I think they're way off. I do agree with you, he's spectacular, but I've hated the Lakers since I could talk so any chance to tear down Kobe is one I'm obliged to take. :evil

Two Game 7's coming up, they should both be sweet. I expect both home teams to pull them out. I like Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, and Pop and I'd love to see them get another ring.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I didn't mean to imply that you said that, but people like Marc Jackson have been throwing that around and I think they're way off. I do agree with you, he's spectacular, but I've hated the Lakers since I could talk so any chance to tear down Kobe is one I'm obliged to take. :evil

Two Game 7's coming up, they should both be sweet. I expect both home teams to pull them out. I like Duncan, Ginobli, Parker, and Pop and I'd love to see them get another ring.

I don't they have won plenty. I am hopping for Miami at this point, if the home teams win the game sevens.

[Jedieb]

After all the drama we get the expected final in the East. The West is still up for grabs. After being down by as much as 20, the Spurs have battled back and the 4th quarter begins with the Mavs lead down to 6. This should be a good finish!

[Jedieb]

Unbelievable comeback by the Spurs and Dirk responds with a huge 3 point play. The Spurs will probably try to run down the clock and get a shot off at the buzzer. This game is probably headed for OT and this series deserves no less.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Unbelievable comeback by the Spurs and Dirk responds with a huge 3 point play. The Spurs will probably try to run down the clock and get a shot off at the buzzer. This game is probably headed for OT and this series deserves no less.

Duncan should have took that shot before OT, because now it looks like Dallas will win, it becomes FT now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Dallas won, they finally got over that hump. Now I would like to see the Clippers get there considering their history.

[Jedieb]

The big play was Dirk being able to get that 3 point play to tie the game. Stupid foul by Bowen, you should just let Dirk score when he gets the ball that deep. You still have a 1pt lead and they're going to foul you because you can run the clock out.

Dallas has waited a long time to get past the Spurs. Let's see if they can finally make it to the finals. In the East I think I'll be rooting for the Heat. I don't really care either way, can't say I got a strong feeling for any of the remaining teams.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I take Miami over Detriot, I can't stand Wallace. I wouldn't mind seeing the Clippers getting there, but I am not sure if they can win game 7.

[jjwr]

I'm hoping for a Mavs vs Heat finals, I'm sick of the Pistons as well and quite annoyed they won the Cavs series. If a fairly one dimensional Cavs team can almost beat them then the Heat have more than a fair shot.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I take Miami over Detriot, I can't stand Wallace.

Which one? ;)

Did I hear correctly? Did the Suns outscore the Clippers 45-0 from 3-pt land? That's unbelievable. I really wanted Cleveland to knock of Detroit, but you had to know that once they didn't finish them off in game 6 Detroit would put it all together and take game 7. I thought the same thing would have happened to the Spurs. I was sure they were going to erase that 20 point deficit and turn Dirk into a laughing stock. Instead, the Mavs hung in tough and got rid of the boring champs.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Which one? ;)

Did I hear correctly? Did the Suns outscore the Clippers 45-0 from 3-pt land? That's unbelievable. I really wanted Cleveland to knock of Detroit, but you had to know that once they didn't finish them off in game 6 Detroit would put it all together and take game 7. I thought the same thing would have happened to the Spurs. I was sure they were going to erase that 20 point deficit and turn Dirk into a laughing stock. Instead, the Mavs hung in tough and got rid of the boring champs.

Rasheed of course, he is an idiot. I thought the Spurs were going to win too, I thought for sure that they would let Duncan hit that last shot and win the game. I am glad they didn't, I just want to see a different champion for a change. A Mavs-Heat Series would be perfect, IMO.

[Jedieb]

I love Big Ben, but yes, Rasheed is a head case. I think the Mavs/Suns series should be a fun one to watch. Most of those games should be shootouts. The Suns aren't going to play any kind of defense and the Mavs will probably have to go small to keep up with them. It should be great to watch.

I'm ignoring the Heat/Pistons game until the Yanks and Sox are over. NBA playoffs aren't enough to pull me away from my favorite rivalry. :cool

[Jedi Master Carr]

Man Game 5 tonight was wild. Dallas dominates first quarter then pheonix cuts the lead from 13 to 3 before halftime, then they dominate the third quarter and take a seven point lead in the 4th. But Dirk takes the game over and they score 10 straight points. Wild finish to that game.

[JMK]

50 for Dirk. And 10 boards. It's been a long time since someone put up numbers like that in a playoff game.

[Jedieb]

Everytime I checked in on that game a different team was in control. Dallas needed that win or they would have been hurting. Dirk took over when his team had not only blown a 15 point lead, but they were down by 7. I expect the Suns to win at home and force a game 7 in Dallas. I'm pretty sure the Heat and Pistons have their game 6 in Miami tonight. Man, if the Heat don't finish them off tonight they're going to have all the pressure on them in game 7.

[JMK]

If the Heat don't win tonight, they're toast. History is so overwhelmingly on the home team's side in NBA game 7s. I'm starting to think the Pistons sometimes put themselves in huge holes because they're so good that they get bored and need to create challenges for themselves. Quite a fine line to walk, but they just won't go away.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Dallas won in San Antonio but yeah it is very very hard to win a road game 7. That is why I think the Suns have little chance I think Dallas will win in seven. I think whoever they get in the East will have a tough time playing Dallas.

[jjwr]

I'm starting to think the Pistons sometimes put themselves in huge holes because they're so good that they get bored and need to create challenges for themselves. Quite a fine line to walk, but they just won't go away.

Nah, they're just so good that they can come back and make a series of it even after they are down and most teams couldn't.

The Cavs weren't good enough to put them away but the fact it went 7 games tells you something about Detroit. Shaq could have a huge game tonight and if he does its all over.

Don't forget this number from the last game 6 of 20 - the Heat lost the game at the line, the Pistons played well but if the Heat hit thei FT's then its a closer game and could have gone either way.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Heat blew the game because of foul shooting, I agree.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great First Half for Miami, especially Shaq 19 points. Wade starting off slow, although Jason Williams is picking up the slack. Man Hamilton can't hit the broadside of the barn.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Game becoming a blow out, Wade really showing something in that quater considering he has the flu. He had 10 points. It took Detroit almost 3 quarters to get to 50 now that is embarrassing.

[CMJ]

I watched some of the game. Too much Shaq and Wade for the Pistons.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it was just a blow out, Shaq was too good. I think they will meet Dallas. The best thing we will have a franchise that had never won.

[Ryan Pode]

If the Heat win the championship, think Shaq will retire?

[JMK]

I don't think so. But I guess it's possible. I believe he's still under contract and would be leaving a TON of money on the table.

[sirdizzy]

I am glad the teams I really don't like the pistons and the spurs are gone.


Too me the best of the playoffs is happening in the west dallas vs phoenix. Both of these teams are so much fun to watch that the finals will be a let down.

[Jedi Master Carr]

You are probably right, it is because of Phoenix's style they are in every game. If they could some how win, I think they will kill the Heat. The Heat just can't play that kind of style, now Dallas is a different story. They are not the uptempo team they used to be. They can manage in that style but they rather play half court.

[Jedieb]

The Suns just blew an 18 point lead and are now down by 2 in the fourth. Still a lot of time left, nice feed from Nash and the Suns have tied the game. Now the Mavs are back up. They'll probably score a dozen pts before I finishing posting.

Miami could have easily beaten the Pistons last year, it was a close series and if Wade hadn't of gotten hurt in game 6, who knows. What impressed me last night was how efficient Shaq and Williams were. Shaq was 12-14 and Williams hit his first 10 shot attempts. Whoever wins tonight, we should get a good, high scoring, finals.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Dallas had a heck of a comeback to pull that game out. Now Miami vs Dallas. Who will win? If Miami wins they will need to steal game 1 or 2 in Dallas. I think they can win all three in Miami but winning a game 6 or 7 in Dallas I think will be tougher.

[Morgan Evanar]

I was really hoping that Phoenix would win, because I like Miami's chances against them better. Whenever Phoenix is slowed, they usually loose. Miami has made fast teams play East basketball before and they usually win that way.

Dallas is a very adaptable team with great defense and I don't really like how Miami matches up against them.

[Figrin D'an]

Should be an entertaining Finals regardless of the outcome. I'm pulling for Miami, though... I want to see Dwayne Wade and Alonzo Mourning get rings, and with Shaq getting closer to possible retirement, they might not have many chances left before they have to retool things again.

[jediSamson]

I'm torn, the only player that I have REALLY followed since Bird, is ZO, from Char,mia,nj,mia . But I so can not stand the 2nd biggest over hyped player of all time Crapdaddy. I really would like to see Zo get that ring, but....Also A big Dallas fan , so that makes it all that more confusing for me :(
Of course if Miami would let a real (basketball playing) canter like ZO get more than a few minutes a game they would run away with the series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree with you about Shaq he is a monster, his only problem is the fact he can't hit foul shots for nothing.

[sirdizzy]

thats because Shaq is allowed to foul his way to the basket everytime he touches the ball. If you were to call a straight up game on Shaq where you called him for every foul he makes to bully his way to 3 feet of the basket, Shaq would be the worst player in the entire nba. But with refs looking the other way and shaq allowed to foul at will, how do you stop a 300 pound 7 foot guy from getting to three feet of the hoop when he has a get out of jail free card from the refs. At his height 3 feet from the basket is like hitting the broad side of a barn with a beach ball. Hence the hack a shaq strategy being somewhat successful

[Jedi Master Carr]

You could make that argument about any center his height, at the same time there are guys out there who were over 7 feet, Dampier for Dallas comes to mind, who are just big stiffs. So he has some talent.

[sirdizzy]

it makes for boring basketball though, thats why I want the refs to call the fouls

most exciting era of basketball hands down was the bird vs magic era, bird was an outside shooter and magic liked to play the long ball. How many coast to coast, run and gun style of games did we get to see during those eras, man was it fun.

Thats why I like Dallas and thats why I like Phoenix, they are bringing the run and gun back and making basketball fun again

So go Dallas

ps ever notice run, gun and fun all rhyme, coincidence I think not

[Jedi Master Carr]

but calling the fouls slow down the game. Actually back in the Bird-Magic era, they called less fouls which made the game faster.

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
it makes for boring basketball though, thats why I want the refs to call the fouls

most exciting era of basketball hands down was the bird vs magic era, bird was an outside shooter and magic liked to play the long ball. How many coast to coast, run and gun style of games did we get to see during those eras, man was it fun.

Thats why I like Dallas and thats why I like Phoenix, they are bringing the run and gun back and making basketball fun again

So go Dallas

ps ever notice run, gun and fun all rhyme, coincidence I think not

So you would find mexican pygmey basketball exciting?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great start for Miami, especially Wade. Lets see if they can keep it up.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Dallas won game 1 thanks to large part to Jason Terry he had a heck of a game. Only Wade really did anything for Miami.

[sirdizzy]

no dallas won the game because the worst player in the nba showed his true form with a 1-9 performance from the line, a 10 point loss and shaq throws up 8 bricks from the line. Miami won't make it to a game 6 if that continues to happen

[jjwr]

Shaq is the worst player in the NBA? If you wanna talk Hoops thats a really bad way to start.

Wade & Shaq as of late in the game when I went to bed were the only ones to shoot Free Throws, no other player attempted them and down the stretch they couldn't hit a hoop when they had the Mavs within 3.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Shaq is just a bad free thrower shooter, but so wasn't the great Wilt Chamberland. Chamberland shot less than 40% from the FT most of the time and he is one of the greatest players ever. That wasn't why they lost, the other heat players did nothing in that game and that was the reason.

[sirdizzy]

Shaq is the worst player in the nba, hands down sorry, he just is. Like I said before without the benifit of the refs letting him foul his way within to 3 feet of the basket he is useless. Anything further than 3 feet from the basket he might as well be trying to shoot from the moon, he has no outside jump shot, he has no dribbling or driving skills, he needs to be close enough that a four year old playing on a 2 foot hoop would have the same field goal percentage as him.

What he does do and he does it well, is abuse the system to make it look like he can actually play hoops. He's 7 feet and 300 pounds and knows that most refs won't call him for the bullying fouls that will allow him to get to 3 feet of the basket. Him being smart enough to realize this doesn't make him a good ball player it makes him a smart ball player but not a good one. I will say it again Shaq is the worst player in the league. Would you depend on him down by 1 knowing the other team can just foul him and let him show us his masonic tendacies. He won 3 championships on Kobe's back and this will be the 2nd won he has lost on his own because you know and I know miami ain't winning the finals.

\

[sirdizzy]

I never got to see Wilt play he was before my time but I did get to see Kareem play and he had skills outside the 3 foot range. That sky hook of his was devastating and he had a fair outside jumper. If you called a straight up game, no bullying fouls, kareem could have still beat you. In they called a straight up game shaq would have been out of the leauge in 2 years time.

I like how the nba is changing, notice how old the big tall totem poles are dissappearing for the bigger and better guys like dirk who can play from the permiter. Shaq is an antique from the horror days of the nba that cattered to big men by not calling the fouls on them when they forced their way into the paint like a bulldozer driving over a house.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
Shaq is the worst player in the nba, hands down sorry, he just is. Like I said before without the benifit of the refs letting him foul his way within to 3 feet of the basket he is useless. Anything further than 3 feet from the basket he might as well be trying to shoot from the moon, he has no outside jump shot, he has no dribbling or driving skills, he needs to be close enough that a four year old playing on a 2 foot hoop would have the same field goal percentage as him.

What he does do and he does it well, is abuse the system to make it look like he can actually play hoops. He's 7 feet and 300 pounds and knows that most refs won't call him for the bullying fouls that will allow him to get to 3 feet of the basket. Him being smart enough to realize this doesn't make him a good ball player it makes him a smart ball player but not a good one. I will say it again Shaq is the worst player in the league. Would you depend on him down by 1 knowing the other team can just foul him and let him show us his masonic tendacies. He won 3 championships on Kobe's back and this will be the 2nd won he has lost on his own because you know and I know miami ain't winning the finals.

\

I disagree if you say that you have to say players like Chamberland and Kareem were horrible players because they were big. And I said Chamberland was a worse foul shooter than Shaq and he is one of the greatest players ever, heck I think he was the greatest.

[sirdizzy]

I never said kareem was a horrible player because he was big, I said shaq was because thats all he has is being big. Kareem had more talents than just just his size, read my second post.

I can't judge wilt and how old are you carr because I am 29 and I never saw wilt play/

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am the same age, and I have only seen highlights of him and what my father has told me about him, that is what I am judging him by.

[Jedieb]

I saw Kareem play and I think he was better than Shaq. Kareem was probably the most effective outside shooting big man ever. That friggin' skyhook of his was lethal. Mind you, this is from someone who HATED Kareem and the Lakers. That being said, Shaq is one of the best players of his generation. It's not his fault he's that damn big. He's not as good as he thinks he is, but there's a reason he won all 3 of his finals MVP's. He's averaged over 30 points and 10 rebounds in his Finals career. As for getting help from the refs, ALL great players get special treatment. I'm sure there are Jordan haters out there who could go on and on about how MJ was paraded to the line more any other player in playoff history. I'd disagree, but I'd be a fool to say he never got his share of superstar calls.

[CMJ]

Have you ever played someone who is significantly bigger than you? They aren't bullying you when they back you to the basket, they're just bigger! Believe me, being the slight guy I am, I know how hard it is to play post defense against someone who has 50 pounds or more on ya. But the guys who backed me into the paint rarely fouled me, they just had the size. I had to try and outquick them to a spot and hope they threw an elbow as they tried to get their shot off.

That's what Shaq does to other centers. He has a huge advantage, but he takes advantage of it. Why should he not?

He's probably the best player in the post Jordan era. And probably the best center period since Kareem.

(And I say that as someone who hates the guy)

One thing I totally agree with Eb on is Jordan. That guy got so many freaking calls(and non calls) it was ridiculous.

[sirdizzy]

Jordan's patent move was the pushoff, they have actually changed the rules since he played because of how bad it was. He also had that grip on your back defensivly so you couldn't turn.

I am a jazz fan just watch the game 6 of the finals he about throws bryan russel into the stands to get open for that final jumper.

He was good, but he was a big cheater too.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
Have you ever played someone who is significantly bigger than you? They aren't bullying you when they back you to the basket, they're just bigger! Believe me, being the slight guy I am, I know how hard it is to play post defense against someone who has 50 pounds or more on ya. But the guys who backed me into the paint rarely fouled me, they just had the size. I had to try and outquick them to a spot and hope they threw an elbow as they tried to get their shot off.

That's what Shaq does to other centers. He has a huge advantage, but he takes advantage of it. Why should he not?

He's probably the best player in the post Jordan era. And probably the best center period since Kareem.

(And I say that as someone who hates the guy)

One thing I totally agree with Eb on is Jordan. That guy got so many freaking calls(and non calls) it was ridiculous.

I agree with you he is the best center since Kareem. And yeah I thought that way about Jordan too. I always thought he got special treatment some times.

[jjwr]

I am a jazz fan just watch the game 6 of the finals he about throws bryan russel into the stands to get open for that final jumper.

I agree with this 100% I've always been a Celtics fan but I liked the Jazz too and I really wanted them to beat the Bulls in those series and that one game really pissed me off.

It really isn't Shaqs fault that he's so much bigger than everyone else. As JMC is pointing out a size difference down low can be huge, its fully within the rules to back someone down and take advantage of your size.

Don't discount Shaqs contributions either, he was easily the main reason the Lakers won those 3 titles(on the floor at least, Phil deserves a lot of credit too). Kobe is good but without Shaq...well which team is back in the finals?

[Jedieb]

From what I've read, I barely saw any of the game last night, the Mavs put a beat down on the Heat last night. Shaq was completely shut down and I think he only had 5 points. This was after all of his pregame bluster. Which of course explains why he skipped the post game news conferences and drew a fine from the league. Here's something to remember about Shaq, early in his career, he was good for one thing in the playoffs, a sweep. By a sweep, I mean that's how he was shown the door. When he was with the Magic he got his butt swept out of the playoffs year after year. And when the Heat did beat the Bulls and make it to the Finals, it was the year jordan came back in midseason. The next year? The Bulls beat the Heat down and swept them out of the playoffs. I believe Shaq was also swept out of the playoffs in his first year with the Lakers. He's a GREAT player, but he's not Jordan and when you get him down early you can show him and his team the door.

[sirdizzy]

I was a big celtics and larry bird fan when I was kid but I kind of drifted to the jazz after bird retired and stockton became my new favorite player. Its hard not to be a jazz fan in utah, the hysteria for the jazz is awesome and I just can't get behind guys like pierce.

My favorite player now is andre kirlinko followed by dirk.

[jjwr]

And J.J.Reddick gets arrested for DWI, Trailblazers here he comes!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Miami tied the series up at 2. They just dominated Dallas, Dallas only scored 7 points in the 4th quater (that was a record for a NBA Final). Wade though saved the Heat season the other night with that comeback.

[CMJ]

This is a real series now. And with all respect the Lebron James...I'd take Wade over him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Me too, Wade a is a heck of player. I am glad this series is going at least 6. I hate sweeps.

[JMK]

Yeah, I can't stand sweeps in any final...unless of course my team is doing the sweeping. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Yeah, I can't stand sweeps in any final...unless of course my team is doing the sweeping. ;)

Heh yeah then I don't mind so much. Since I am not really pulling for either team, I like seeing a 6 or 7 game series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

What does everybody think of the stackhouse supension? I have to say the foul was uncalled for he just tackled shaq and really it was a stupid, stupid foul. I guess the league just wants to send a message it won't tolerate such behavior.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by jjwr
And J.J.Reddick gets arrested for DWI, Trailblazers here he comes!

hey now! :mad

:( it's probably true... Man, the Blazers suck.

[Lamar Starworth]

Originally posted by jjwr
And J.J.Reddick gets arrested for DWI, Trailblazers here he comes!

If he goes to the Trailblazers it'll just be another wasted pick. J.J Reddick has no future in the league as a starter, in my book. Except if he plays on a summer league team. :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Reddick won't make it in the NBA he is just too small for his position.

[Lamar Starworth]

And far from athletic enough to make up for it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah that too, he was a very good college player but the College game is very different. He can get by with his skills at Duke but at the NBA it is very different.

[CMJ]

Nah, I think Reddick will be a decent NBA player. Not an all star or anything, but he could be a specialist, like Steve Kerr or something.

What a fantastic Game 5 tonight. Wade is a God.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know I was going to say that this was a great game and man Wade is such an amazing player. And what was that Howard thinking?? Was he channeling Chris Webber or something.

[JMK]

It's called a choke. A brain cramp. A Mickelson. Take your pick, but that's an unforgiveable mistake. Oh well, justice was served as Wade was unbelievable.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it was an unforgivable mistake, although Avery Johnson was laughable in his press confernece. He seemed to think the refs should have gave the Time out back, yeah right Avery, you need to be a man and say there was a lack of communication, stop blaming the refs for every mistake. Now can Miami win one game in Dallas? If Wade plays like he has the last three games in one game I think they can.

[JMK]

That was hilarious. A nice attempt to protect his player, but in the end I think we've all heard enough moaning about the refs from Johnson and Cuban. Just shut up already.

[jjwr]

Great game, Wade is definetly a rising star in the NBA, if the Heat pull this series out he gets Finals MVP and will potentially go into next year as the NBA's biggest star over Lebron.

The series isn't over though, so far the home team has won every game and the first two in Dallas weren't pretty.

[Lamar Starworth]

Originally posted by jjwr
Great game, Wade is definetly a rising star in the NBA, if the Heat pull this series out he gets Finals MVP and will potentially go into next year as the NBA's biggest star over Lebron.

The series isn't over though, so far the home team has won every game and the first two in Dallas weren't pretty.

No doubt Dwayne Wade is up there in stardom, but I dont see him eclipsing LeBron anytime soon, especially with LeBron's display this playoffs. Lebron was given the network time, and with it he showcased exactly how good he was infront of an audience that already loved him.

Dwayne Wade is up there, but he is about 4 steps behind Lebron in stardom. Not skill, but stardom. Lebron is at the helm of the NBA's new generation, and that throne wont be replaced even with a NBA title. Despite the fact that Dwayne Wade is great, people will always point to Shaq, and all the other Heat to say he was around great players.

Until Shaq leaves, I dont know if Dwayne Wade could be the star he should be.

[Figrin D'an]

Either the Heat will finish the series off in Game 6, or the Mavericks will take it in 7. Miami needs to use the momentum they have created to win the title. If they let Dallas have Game 6, they may as well hand Mark Cuban the trophy. For all of Wade's amazing play, the wins haven't come easily for the Heat. He'll need to not only keep up his currently level of play, but also get some more help from the team's roleplayers.

That said... Wade has been incredible the last few games. He's just been completely unstopable. I'd love to see the guy win a title, he deserves it the way he's carried his team in this post season.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cuban is at it again.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/playoffs2006/news/story?id=2491783

The guy needs to let it go, and this blame the ref crap is just ridiculous. If they don't get over it they will lose in the playoffs. I think Miami could win in a game 7. Really you throw everything out the window in a game 7 and it becomes very unpredictable.

[JMK]

Cuban is getting in over his head. He's doing what every COACH would do in this situation - take the pressure off the team and shine the spotlight on him. But he's becoming a distraction that the Mavs don't need.

And I agree 1000000% with Figrin. If the Heat don't finish off the Mavs in game 6 they won't win it in 7. Winning game 7 on the road is nearly impossible in any sport (see tonight in the NHL, and in 2004). Miami has their hands around the Mavs' neck, all they have to do is choke them out.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Cuban is getting in over his head. He's doing what every COACH would do in this situation - take the pressure off the team and shine the spotlight on him. But he's becoming a distraction that the Mavs don't need.

And I agree 1000000% with Figrin. If the Heat don't finish off the Mavs in game 6 they won't win it in 7. Winning game 7 on the road is nearly impossible in any sport (see tonight in the NHL, and in 2004). Miami has their hands around the Mavs' neck, all they have to do is choke them out.

Well tell that to the Red Sox :p

[CMJ]

A team hasn't won a Game 7 on the road in the Championship series of the NHL, NBA, or MLB since 1979.

[JMK]

That's nuts. The only stat I know by heart is that the home teams in game 7 of the Stanley Cup Finals are now 12-2 after last night's Carolina win.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
A team hasn't won a Game 7 on the road in the Championship series of the NHL, NBA, or MLB since 1979.
I thought somebody had, I guess the only one I can think of is the Red Sox but that was in the ALCS. I still think it could be done.

[Ryan Pode]

Dwayne Wade = Stud.

Miami Wins.

[jjwr]

And the Heat just won it...incredible game, lots of big leads, lots of runs. Tons of questionable calls on both sides and the Mavs had a chance to send it into OT at the buzzer but couldn't hit it.

Mark Cuban...as soon as the Heat won it showed him standing on the court applauding. Can't argue with that.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Great game, almost as good as Game 5. Wade was great of course, although I was shocked he missed both foul shots. Dallas had their chances they can't blame the refs. Finally I am happy for Mourning the man has been through a lot and he had a heck of game. I am glad he had a championship.

[CMJ]

Congrats to the Heat...

Despite the outcome of this series Homecourt really means everything in the NBA. Home teams won 67% of the games played and 80% of the series played this postseason.

Compare that with the NHL having a 53% Home team winning rate in both games and series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Heat won this game for two reasons, momentum and Dwayne Wade that is the only reason why they negated homefield.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Congrats to the Heat, Mourning, Gary Payton, Wade and all the rest - It was a great game to watch! We were rooting for Miami so it was great to watch them win it.

Shaq may be past his prime but he's still one of my favorite players. :love The 'hack a Shaq' ploy was getting really old though. He has such horrible free throw form, it makes me cringe every time he goes to the line. >_< If he would just put some more effort into his game he'd be great again.

[jjwr]

Shaq will never be great again, not to the level he used to be. Those knees and feet have taken way too much pounding over his career. As for his free-throws, it really does amaze me how bad he is at them, its like he throws the ball straight at the rim and hopes it will go in. I don't care how big you are, you can get some arc/touch on the ball if you try.

Mourning had an awesome game, a ridiculous defensive performance.

As for Wade vs Lebron, very tough call. Lebron has the hype and a better overall game but if you want to win a game its obvous who your choice is.

[JMK]

It's a no-brainer for me at this point. It's Wade all the way. I'd bet that if Lebron had a Shaq or just a better surrounding group he'd be able to pull off what Wade just did, but the fact is Wade was as dominant in a finals as anyone has been since MJ in '93. He was the best player, BY FAR, at the highest level of basketball when the pressure to win was at its most. That's the calling card of a true champ. Wade just set himself apart from everyone in the 03 draft and vaulted himself in to the very elite of the league.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think so too, Wade is the best player in the NBA right now. He dominated like Jordan did in the 90's during this series. Although, I think there could be a Lebron-Wade rivalary staring, kind of like Magic vs Bird in the 80's.

[JMK]

For that to happen Lebron is going to have to have a run similar to what Wade just had. He got them to game 7 of the Eastern semis, but that's not enough. But I'm pretty sure he will get there.

[jjwr]

The big difference with Lebron is he looks more to get his teammates involved. If he was in this series instead of Wade he would he would have tried harder to get the ball to the other players and Heat probably would have lost. Wade seems to have the killer instinct and he knew he could score so he did, yeah it may seem selfish but he knew what needed to be done to win and he did it.

Lebron is still the better overall player but Wade is just an incredible scorer and can obviously will a team to victory.

[Lamar Starworth]

About the free throws, I think that is a lot about mechanics and psyche of a player. People just miss sometimes because of themselves. Its not like they don't have the trainers to teach them the right mechanics, but I don't think they have instilled it to the point that it need be, especially for someone as large as Shaq.

Now, about the Wade vs Lebron situation I can't even really put them in the same category until I see how Lebron comes back this next season. However, during this playoffs who could deny Wade his status of dominance. In truth, it's just a spectacle to really see how these players have come so far in only three years.

Lebron is a much different player than Wade, as someone has already said. I think his abilities put him ahead of Wade overall, but he has a different package to bring to the table. Wade his a game far more similar to Jordan than probably anyone in that recent years in response to all the comparisons as of late. Lebron does not remind me like no other. He is the second coming of none, and his whole game is unlike anyone before him.

Although he does carry the height, weight and court vision of Magic. His athleticism, instincts and potential are that of Michael. The funny thing is I don't even think he even tries to dominant games like Wade did during the finals. Even in his series with Detroit it seemed like he was more often than not in the final quarter of Game 6 and 7 trying to get others involved.

Right now, though, Wade is the best basketball player in the NBA. Forget Kobe's 81, Lebron's force to push one of the best basketball teams to 7 game series and Steve Nash's numerous assist. Dwayne Wade is undeniable great.