Post War Iraq continued

[Jedi Master Carr]

Here you may continue the discussion on the situation in Iraq.

[jjwr]

32% is still way too high for as incompetent as Bush is, he should be in the teens.

[Yog]

32% approval rating.. thats like 1/3 who thinks he is doing a good job. I wonder who this mysterious third is o_O

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
32% approval rating.. thats like 1/3 who thinks he is doing a good job. I wonder who this mysterious third is o_O

Probably mainly a group of people who honestly believe it is treason to be critical of the President at any time, because "He's the President".

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I bet they're Americans, o friends from across the seas.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I bet they're Americans, o friends from across the seas.

Of course they're Americans. Its a poll of american voters, so that goes without saying. I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I bet they're Americans, o friends from across the seas.

Of course they are Americans. I also didnt say it was WRONG, I just observed a lot of Americans do think that way and didnt infer a right or a wrong about it - I'll add that whether they personally think things are going bad or not, they will support the President no matter what, because he's the President.

You could observe in return that Australia has a stunning lack of respect for it's Prime Minister and Policitcian bashing and baiting is a national pasttime. It's just a cultural thing.

Much like truckers stand for the anthem before a college football game and think the Aussie that didnt is some sort of Godless TERRIST. The only time I was glad that Americans think Aussies are pure crazy and not to be messed with based on Steve Irwin's blaise handling of highly dangerous creatures.

[Khendon Sevon]

Originally posted by Jaime Tomahawk
Of course they are Americans. I also didnt say it was WRONG, I just observed a lot of Americans do think that way and didnt infer a right or a wrong about it - I'll add that whether they personally think things are going bad or not, they will support the President no matter what, because he's the President.

You could observe in return that Australia has a stunning lack of respect for it's Prime Minister and Policitcian bashing and baiting is a national pasttime. It's just a cultural thing.

Much like truckers stand for the anthem before a college football game and think the Aussie that didnt is some sort of Godless TERRIST. The only time I was glad that Americans think Aussies are pure crazy and not to be messed with based on Steve Irwin's blaise handling of highly dangerous creatures.

For some reason I didn't understand a word in that post.

In other news: I was watching the Greek news (sat. tv) and they showed protesting against Bush in Washington.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well, a certain group will support him regardless. I would say that category you described Jaime.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Khendon Sevon
For some reason I didn't understand a word in that post.

I didn't get the last sentence.

[Dutchy]

Where is the first thread on the Iraq war? It was started by Jonathan and was called something like "War in Iraq now imminent".

Here's a quote from US President George W. Bush during his surprise visit to Iraq yesterday:


"The people of this country suffered under the hands of a brutal tyrant. And thanks to the United States forces and coalition forces, the people are liberated from the clutches of Saddam Hussein," said Bush to strong applause.

Gee, George, wasn't that, like, 3 YEARS ago?


"America's safer.

Yeah, good point. Finally an end has come to Saddam attacking the American people on their own soil.


The world is better off. And the Iraqi people have a chance to realize the great blessings of liberty because Saddam Hussein is no longer in power."

Oh, I'm sure the Iraqi people bless the dozens of citizens killed in bombings every day.

[Tipp Gray]

Let's face it. Bush has ruined things in Iraq and the entire middle east at this point. We need a republican in the white house, but one that is close to the center, not very far to the right. I'm afraid a democrat may try to turn the entire Bush administration's agenda around and will screw things up even more, but if we get another die hard conservative then this pointless war is going to continue until the middle east is just an annexation of the USA.

Maybe I am just a "liberal" or "unpatriotic", but I fail to see the progress that has (not) been made in Iraq.

[Khendon Sevon]

How would you know the progress that has or hasn't been made? When was the last time you were over there?

There is the problem.

How do we know anything? Simple. We don't.

Politicians control our media. It's a CURSE. Jefferson is rolling over in his grave.

[Tipp Gray]

I don't believe that politicians control the media, but rather a handful of unelected individuals that work behind the scenes. Of course the general public is kept in the dark about a lot of things, it is for our own good. I would be scared to leave my house if I knew about all the terrorist attempts that have been stopped over the past couple of decades.

And you asked about me having gone to Iraq; I have never been. I am sure the military personnel stationed there have been through a hell I may never know, nor do I wish to know. I do not think, however, that they understand the situation anymore than we do. They are kept in the dark about many things as well, and besides what they see first-hand, they use the same resources as you and me to gather their information and form opinions.

[Sanis Prent]

All I know is that this Iraq war business is really making 7.62x39mm Soviet and 5.56mm NATO / .223 Remington ammunition too expensive lately. That vexes me terribly.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Patrick
I don't believe that politicians control the media, but rather a handful of unelected individuals that work behind the scenes.

Fox News at your service, mass media mind rape and propaganda. The worst export of Australia ever.


Of course the general public is kept in the dark about a lot of things, it is for our own good. I would be scared to leave my house if I knew about all the terrorist attempts that have been stopped over the past couple of decades.

What on earth are you talking about?!? What attempts? Why are you worried? You got less cahnce of being affected by a terrorist than being hit by a bus - the difference being if you wanted to, you can deliberatly get hit by a bus

The public arent kept in the dark for their own good, there are different reasons. Namely, money.


And you asked about me having gone to Iraq; I have never been. I am sure the military personnel stationed there have been through a hell I may never know, nor do I wish to know. I do not think, however, that they understand the situation anymore than we do. They are kept in the dark about many things as well, and besides what they see first-hand, they use the same resources as you and me to gather their information and form opinions.

No, they have access to things like the BBC. All you have to do is go overseas where the media is much less crap and you get quite an education

[Khendon Sevon]

Darn, ditto the above post. :) It's almost exactly what I was going to point out.

Media in the US don't want to really criticize the administration, its actions, etc too heavily. Why? They’re afraid of being deemed unpatriotic. Considering the foolishness that happened when we went into Iraq (I’m referring to Freedom Fries and Freedom Toast instead of French because Americans were being unreasonable) I can completely imagine a reporter speaking the truth getting tagged as anti-American. It’s just too easy to manipulate the American people. So gullible.

As for politicians? They have elections, party lines, etc keeping them from really saying anything spectacular and new.

[Jorshal Vuntana]

Eh, just reading through this I'd thought I'd chime in a few cents...

1) Politicians and government: 98% of the U.S. federal government is not elected, I personally am skeptical when it comes to politicians.

2) Media: Does any good American really get their news from anything but the internet? Regardless, the major broadcastors are biased, in my mind I simply see it as catering to a particular audience. In the U.S., Fox and CNN are comparable to bickering sports teams. However, I do like the BBC (though they're a little too liberal for my tastes) because they cover the rest of the world and both US networks should take a note from them.

My view on Iraq: It's not really about Iraq alone. I think the Bush admin tried to kill two birds with one stone. 9/11 place the US against Al Qaeda, Afganistan was the obvious choice, but the terrain is too difficult and its hard to draw A.Q. into a fight. So then there's Iraq, the weakest in the "Axis of Evil" line up. Knock out Saddam and draw A.Q. into a fight away from American soil and against U.S. troops. Drawing A.Q. into a fight on a territory of the U.S.'s choosing, I think, was the primary reason for the invasion of Iraq.

Significance: Does anyone remember the Philipine-American War? It's pretty much the same story, minus WMDs. Nearly 4,500 U.S. troops dead, nearly 3,000 wounded and about 2,000 of the Philipine police dead. 16,000 killed Philipine insurgents, approx. 700,000 civillians killed. 13 years of war all in the name of the prospect of declaring the Phillipines an American Colony. To this day, someone says Philippine-American War and no one knows what the hell you're talking about. Granted, its much too early to tell but I suspect this Iraqi-American war will meet a similar fate as a minor conflict of the 21st century.

AND, the freedom toast and freedom fries thing was ridiculous, but I indulged for humors sake. These stupid things affect everyday life. Frankfurter was renamed Hot Dog in WWII and in WWI Saurkraut was named Liberty Cabbage. Granted we weren't fighting France in 2003, but still, I take some guilty pleasure.

I'd just like to add, Iran renamed Danish Pastries to Roses to the Prophet Muhammad after the whole cartoon skirmish.

[Park Kraken]

Why is that? Why do people only target the food? Can you imagine if we suddenly have a conflict with China?

"Oh, I'm going for Freedom Takeout. You want anything?"

"I'll have some Freedom Chicken."

"Which kind of Freedom Chicken?"

"Uncle Sam kind."

"You mean the Sesame kind?"

"What did you say? Are you a commie?"

:rolleyes

And the first and only thing I'm going to say is that taking into consideration that the Democratic national convention is held in a Brothel house, while the Republican national convention and the NRA meeting is the one and the same, and the populace's reluntancy to vote for a third candidate, we are pretty screwed as it is.

[Tipp Gray]

Originally posted by Jaime Tomahawk
What on earth are you talking about?!? What attempts? Why are you worried? You got less cahnce of being affected by a terrorist than being hit by a bus - the difference being if you wanted to, you can deliberatly get hit by a bus

The public arent kept in the dark for their own good, there are different reasons. Namely, money.


Do you really think that there haven't been hundreds of terrorist attempts that were stopped before they happened? The government can and does monitor phone calls, internet activity, and just about everything else. It wouldn't be hard for them to intercept something, stop the act early, and keep the entire operation classified.

[Khendon Sevon]

I have a feeling this is an administration that would go, "We stopped an attempt! We stopped an attempt!"

On top of that, terrorists don't care about striking Americans in America! Duh. They have 200,000 Americans in Iraq that are easier to get to and kill!

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Patrick
Do you really think that there haven't been hundreds of terrorist attempts that were stopped before they happened? The government can and does monitor phone calls, internet activity, and just about everything else. It wouldn't be hard for them to intercept something, stop the act early, and keep the entire operation classified.


Yes actually, I dont think a single terrorist attack has been stopped with those. And do you really think the so called methods of interception is going to stop real terrorists who have a clue?

[Tipp Gray]

To tell you the truth, I usually am on your side of this argument. I think they are using those methods more to monitor and control the population than to prevent future attacks, but they need some patriotic cover up to keep it from being questioned. But still, I do believe they have probably stopped several attacks without public knowledge.

[Dutchy]

I guess after today's report Bush will finally have to admit his war is a failure.