SW Board Alliance Project (concerns all board members)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

<a href=http://therebelfaction.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8035>Read and partake in the discussion here.</a>

As some of you may know, there was a recent push by TGC for what was called "Star Wars Board Unity." Discussion took place, and the idea evolved into a possible graphic/text links directory that would be hosted separately from any one SW RPing board.

The Sw-Fans staff is tentatively interested in being a part of such a project, and we have been taking part in the discussion currently being held on <a href=http://therebelfaction.com/>The Rebel Faction.</a> We would like to bring this to the attention of the general posting public, for your opinions on the matter.

This is something that concerns us all, RPer and non-RPers, so everyone is asked for their opinions.

However!

This thread has not been started so that you can flame other SW boards, or bad mouth members of other boards. Any post which contains such content will be sliced out of this thread and removed in its entirety, and the poster will be warned. This thread is solely for discussing the merits or demerits of the item on the table - the links directory.

[Andromeda]

I have to say that what Dara just posted is a very good point. There's at least one board included in the tentative list of participants that I personally would not want swfans to be associated with.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Following with some interest.

But frankly while the unity idea has already gotten me to look over a few more boards than I knew of - and interested to see a few SW-Fans members more than I realised in places I didnt know of - I have serious and resonable doubts that certain boards should be included.

My observation was that this Unity idea was not started originally in good faith. I have not a scrap of faith that unless General Ceel is permantly excluded, he will use this in some way that will harm other boards. I have no belief that he will stay out of it. I have no faith in TGC either.

I know this skirts to bashing, but I believe I have seen enough that my faith in their posters and Ceel that I have deep concerns in the manner that they do things. He has unfairly bashed posters and right now specifically targeting Lil and I for one am disgusted with that. Do we want people like that to even get close to this rather good community?

I will absolutly will not support anythign that makes him or TGC drawn into a affliates program or however you want to do it due to my resonable doubts. I'm also deeply uncomfortable with TMC but unlike TGC, they have decent posters so.... I dont know.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I have suggested that boards that allow flaming of members of other boards should not be included. There has been little attention to this idea as of yet.

[Park Kraken]

TGC and TRF both have histories of flaming other boards, although TRF mainly does it now as a form of humor, although we haven't even been doing that much lately. As for the other boards, well I'm still waiting for my account to be activated on Star Wars RPG, I've been to most of the ezboard sites, and they are ok. I am personally members of Shadows of the Force and Jedibites.

[Morgan Evanar]

RPG has stated they'd rather go with a more direct affiliates system on a board by board basis.

[Serena Laran]

I am leaning more towards this idea myself.

[Dasquian Belargic]

I agree with Morgan and Serena. Though I'm all in favour of creating more links between the SW communities out there, each board needs to be examined case by case - particularly when the other boards have policies/attitudes that might be in direct conflict with our own.

[Dara Shadowtide]

Hi all. :) I agree with the concerns stated by Jaime, Lilaena and Dasquian and those reasons are why I would prefer a more selective process of boards to be included. I feel that this could be more successful than just a link placed on an affiliates page and it could serve to unify communities that have not done anything like this before.

Maybe we should consider not calling it an affiliation since that just means "to associate as a member". Maybe we need a more appropriate term for our new effort here. I was going to suggest calling it an alliance, "an association to further the common interests of the members", since we would be allying like-minded communities to bring together more Star Wars fans across the internet. Star Wars Fans Alliance - SWFA, and Star Wars Roleplaying Alliance - SWRA, are just two ideas that pop into my head of what to call the unity effort.

Perhaps we could even consider thumbnail sized mini-banner links in the footer of each skin as well as a dedicated links page. Here is an example of what I mean at the bottom of this ezboard site:

http://p083.ezboard.com/btheukpropparty

Although I'm not sure I like the animated gifs with all the blinking and stuff - maybe they could be a static image instead. But whatever the Staff of each participating board would prefer would be fine. I just think if we maybe consider doing more than just a link on an affiliates or portal page that it would help more with unifying Star Wars fans. Maybe Ogre with his extensive coding expertise would have another suggestion.

Would there be representatives from each participating community that serve on an advisory board of some sort where they discuss and vote on any new additions? And would that vote need to be unanimous for a board to be added to the alliance? I'm just throwing out questions here and looking very forward to the possibility of working with SWFans on this proposed new unity effort. :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I think it would make sense for the existing staff of the various communities to act as the representatives for their respective boards. They could discuss a potential new addition amongst themselves, then report back to the other representatives with an answer. Does that make sense? I hope so! As for whether unanimous agreement would be necessary... perhaps a majority vote of confidence would be satisfactory? Unless those disagreeing took some major issue with the board in question.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I like the rep idea as well. I need to get my thoughts more in order before I really sit down and think this all over, but just know that I'm in full support of this lovely turn of events :)

This was the design I put together last night for this thing.

http://s93860457.onlinehome.us/misc/pv4.jpg

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I have another SW board that is interested in such an alliance. I agree that calling it an affiliation is lessening the impact of what we really want to accomplish.

As opposed to the entire staff of each board being the representatives, perhaps just the administrators should be - we want a managable group where we are all represented, and if we all brought 7 staff members it could get out of hand quickly. Or maybe each board would pick three staff members to serve as representatives.

[Tais Voru]

Lil and Dara have both invited me into this convo and I just wanted to pop in and say hello and that Evolution is absolutely interested in this quality version of such a project.

I'll kick up a more proper post shortly, but for the evening I'm off.

[Atreyu]

UPDATE:

TGC has officially pulled out of the unity/affiliation/alliance/whatever-you-want-to-call-it project.

Bane Nathos made the announcement in the discussion on TRF:

http://therebelfaction.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8035&page=13&pp=21#118327

Just for everyone's information. I personally wouldn't advocate further disection of this news but rather just everyone acknowledge it and then moving on, in keeping with Miss De'Ville's original request at the beginning of this thread.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Thanks Atreyu, I was just about to bring that information myself.

The discussion will most likely continue on TRF, as most of the other boards who wanted to be a part have already registered accounts there over the last few days. However this thread is still open for discussion for the members of SWFans and anyone else who wants to take part in it.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by Tais Voru
Lil and Dara have both invited me into this convo and I just wanted to pop in and say hello and that Evolution is absolutely interested in this quality version of such a project.

I'll kick up a more proper post shortly, but for the evening I'm off.

I've been lurking around SWE a bit and the whole place is very impressive. Very glad to have you all on board, Tais :)

[Tais Voru]

First, thank you Dasquian, for the welcome and the kinds words about SWE.

Secondly, I'd like to echo the proposal from a few posts back. Each community can appoint 2 or 3 members [preferably administrators or moderators] to act as a liaison to a council of sorts that oversees the more quality version of this unity project. To steal Dara's word, I don't want to come off as elitist, but I think we should be every bit as concerned about quality role play and not just 'saving' Star Wars role play. That would mean being selective about the types of other boards we all elect to associate with. The staff needs to be active, the writing high quality [and that's not to say that newer players who are learning should be held against a board, we were all new once after all] and the boards itself needs to just plain look good.

I mean TGC dropping out of the project should not hinder the original efforts started here to make this project worthwhile and not just another jumbled mass of boards with links to one another on a page no one will visit anyway. The things I've heard from Lil and Dara about this have me excited about some quality 'brotherhood' going on between boards and I'd like to see it come to fruition and not be just a list that anyone and everyone can get on.

As for procedure, I'd say rather than a simple majority, it would require 3/4's majority instead, that way it is a a great number of the 'council' that wants things and not just one over half.

I do like the name Project Vinculum as well.

Anyway, the 'elitist' version of this project has the full support of the SWE staff. I hope we elect not to backslide from this version just because TGC has elected to no longer be included.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Very good points, Tais. I would like to bring the matter to a vote – if you’re in favor of SWFans re-joining the main effort (being associated with any group that wishes to be a part of the hub page) say so. If you’d rather we continue with the process of being a bit more choosy with who we’re allied to, let us know.

I’m in favor of being a bit choosy. It really won’t change anyone’s opinion of us, as we’ve been labeled elitist since the dawn of time.

[Boba Fett]

Hola, me again, from Star Wars Epics. I'm known as Han Antilles over there, but am too lazy to register since I have this account already.

Just dropping in to offer support for this project and to see how this will turn out. I've also been reading the TRF thread to keep up with their updates as well.

Blame s'Ilancy for dropping by our place. Mwah!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I blame s'Il for everything. :mneh Nice to see you again, Boba. :)

[Boba Fett]

You still need to drop in and say 'hi' to us. We don't bite. :D

At least, some of us don't...

[Lilaena De'Ville]

See, that's what worries me. :uhoh

;)

[Morgan Evanar]

We blame s'Il for a lot of things. Most them are postive. Good to see you and Sam around :)

[Vega Van-Derveld]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I’m in favor of being a bit choosy. It really won’t change anyone’s opinion of us, as we’ve been labeled elitist since the dawn of time.

Seconded. My vote goes to the elitist conspiracy clique! :p

[Mandy with an I]

I agree that we should be choosy, but I thought the whole "link-hub" idea WAS going to be choosy o_O

[Vega Van-Derveld]

I think the original idea, as proposed by Ceel, was a free-for-all jamboree that anyone could join in on. Of course, this caused concerns among a few communities, about becoming associated with boards whose policies conflict with their own. So now we're tossing about the idea of a more selective "alliance" system, rather than a broad "affiliate" system.

[Tais Voru]

I know you folks have to decide which way it is you'd like to participate [the free for all or the conservative type] but my next question would be....

How are the initial participants selected? Does this become something Fans starts and then pulls in people as they go? Do Fans and SW: Evolution become the charter members and then add [I only say Evo because I was the only board I saw by name so far, not out of blatant ego]

Or what?

[Mandy with an I]

My question was concerning the alliance idea, actually. I assumed that if we did have some kind of alliance portal/page/whatever, it would be voted on by a committee of reps, etc. :)

Personally, I think Fans being allied with RPG, Epics and Evo would work (Mostly because they've all been represented well in this thread).

[Vega Van-Derveld]

I agree with Mandy. We have a handful of well-managed boards who all seem interested in the idea. I don't think it would be going out on a limb to say that the various communities would all get along well - from what I've seen they're all great places and should be proud to be "allied" with one another. I'd like to think that TRF would be included also, though that is of course up to their staff/members.

[Khendon Sevon]

I cast my pebble in favor of being selective.

[Dara Shadowtide]

Originally posted by Tais Voru
I know you folks have to decide which way it is you'd like to participate [the free for all or the conservative type] but my next question would be....

How are the initial participants selected? Does this become something Fans starts and then pulls in people as they go? Do Fans and SW: Evolution become the charter members and then add [I only say Evo because I was the only board I saw by name so far, not out of blatant ego]

Or what?

I would certainly like StarWarsRPG.net to be considered for a triumvirate charter position if such positions will exist as I believe we have been in on the groundwork thus far. :)

[Tais Voru]

Sorry Dara, I didn't mean to leave you off the list. As I mentioned earlier, twas you and Lil you pulled me into this.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I think that, if Epics decides to come on board, that with RPG, Fans, Evo and Epics we have a great starting point for the project, and should certainly go forward with it.

Each board could have it's three members of the alliance committee, who would also be responsible for accepting applications into the alliance from other interested boards and approving them, or not. We can call all the boards in on the first wave, so to speak, the founding members of the alliance.

I would love TRF to be a part of it as well, if they're interested. I think that there should be nothing to exclude boards from being part of the 'all who wants in' hub project that they're discussing on TRF, and also a member of this alliance.

[Aeria Voru]

Hey. SWEs other admin here. Ive just popped in to echo Tais and give my full support!

[Tais Voru]

I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd tend to think we should perhaps indeed bar the boards that are part of the 'other' alliance from joining this one. If not, then are we not in effect saying that we accept them, and then they in turn are saying they accept others whom we might not accept?

[Mu Satach]

I wouldn't do that.

That's too much like me saying, "Even though I like Susan, I won't talk to her because she talks to Brenda."


*pops back down the rabbit hole*

[Nathanial K'cansce]

I think that would be a little too exclusive, personally. I think it's alright to say, these boards/sites on this hub we affiliate with, specifically. If one board is on another hub as well, with some other boards we don't have on hub A, that's fine - their call.

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Tais Voru
I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd tend to think we should perhaps indeed bar the boards that are part of the 'other' alliance from joining this one. If not, then are we not in effect saying that we accept them, and then they in turn are saying they accept others whom we might not accept? Unless they have behavior that isn't kosher to what we want to support, I wouldn't do that. That's unfair.

[Tais Voru]

And you people call yourselves elitists ;)

[Mandy with an I]

Originally posted by Tais Voru
And you people call yourselves elitists ;)

We are *flaunts Members Only jacket* :mischief

Actually...the fact that this is actually coming together quite smoothly = :cool

[Darshanna Sarin]

Hi everyone. I'm a member of Star Wars: Millennium (http://p203.ezboard.com/bthenewgalaxy), one of the forums that was listed in Ceel's post back at TGC, and as well as on our own board. Just wanted to let you all know that we are now considering joining this alliance. I think it's a great idea but unfortunately, wasn't really brought up by the best of circumstances. I can't really speak for the owner of SWM though, so feel free to drop by our site and say hi :)

[Morgan Evanar]

I've created a temporary forum for the express purpose of discussing this project. http://alliancemotorsport.org/tempboard

[Atreyu]

Thanks Morgan. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ah that's excellent Morg. I see you've made it for an extension of the TRF thread as well (I was confused at first).

Our thread here seems to be to be a separate project from the TRF thread, at the moment.

(hi SWE other admin! :wave and hello to Sarin as well!)

The Kat Kariena Memorial Bar and Grill!!

Is she roleplaying at Millenium now?

[Atreyu]

I thought it was just a memorial in her honour.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

thanks smarty. ;)

[Atreyu]

Your welcome. :p

[Darshanna Sarin]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Ah that's excellent Morg. I see you've made it for an extension of the TRF thread as well (I was confused at first).

Our thread here seems to be to be a separate project from the TRF thread, at the moment.

(hi SWE other admin! :wave and hello to Sarin as well!)

The Kat Kariena Memorial Bar and Grill!!

Is she roleplaying at Millenium now?

Hi, Lil. Actually she left SWM awhile back. I don't know why really :(

[Vega Van-Derveld]

Originally posted by Tais Voru
I'm playing devil's advocate here, but I'd tend to think we should perhaps indeed bar the boards that are part of the 'other' alliance from joining this one. If not, then are we not in effect saying that we accept them, and then they in turn are saying they accept others whom we might not accept?

If we need a substantial majority vote for a board to become part of the alliance, I don't think this should be a problem :)

:wave @ Darshanna and Aeria

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Yay! I love it when storms knock out my net!

Glad to see Darshanna and Aeria have wandered by :) It's great to see their support.

I'm currently working on some more styles/graphics for this thing, and plan on getting my butt over to SWE to rub elbows with the artists there and see if they want to get a sort of Alliance/Vinculum art team gathered from the other boards to pool our tricks into the art aspect of the project.

I think everyone who's contributed to the more foundational aspects of this thing is spot on, and I really have nothing to add in that regard that hasn't been said thus far already.

Going the 'elitest clique' road is IMO a good idea, too. Being selective in who we choose to associate with is a good thing, and will go a long way in showing people who come across us that we're dedicated to presenting quality entertainment in a fun yet professional way. So we're branded as snobs? Eh. No biggie.

[Tais Voru]

Hooray for being snobs! :)

Anytime s'Il, our guys are always ready to talk.

[Samantha Koortyn]

I vote to not be more exclusive or choosy when picking people for the directory. If this is what happens, I don't want to be one of the judges. Feeling left out is no fun at all.

I don't really know what my other admins think about it though.

[Tais Voru]

Question, is there a forum for the Elitist version of this, or just the public one?

[Vega Van-Derveld]

The staff are discussing the prospect of making one here at the minute - a forum for the elitist version, that is.

[Dara Shadowtide]

I'm talking with Lilaena and Morgan about setting up a discussion forum for just the alliance. The alliance is the more selective group of boards who are like-minded in how their communities function. The hub or directory seems to be for any board that would like to sign up from what I have read. There seems to be two distinct projects going on at this point.

[Morgan Evanar]

Since there seems to be some confusion I'm going to rename the stuff I set up to "Hub"

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Sam - I understand the reservation. Let us know if there is any change. :)

As Dara said, we are most likely going to set up a forum on SWF for this discussion to move into.

[Tais Voru]

Looking forward to it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Also- as far as us judging boards who might want to be a part of the Alliance - I see it more like a "we reserve the right to refuse service to anyone." Not that we necessarily WILL, but it gives us the option if we find we want to use it.

The hub project which is open to all may not have this option available to them, and then there is nothing to stop other boards being involved in it which it has been stated we do not want to be associated with ( should they change their minds ). I hope that makes sense.

[Park Kraken]

I've heard talk of moving the main discussion off of TRF? Would it come here to SWF or move possibly to SWE? I know some people have a wide array of ideas concerning the Unity project, some of which come in direct conflict of one another. I myself would rather see all boards linked to a common directory, even if people from those sites don't want it that way. I feel we should be doing this for the people, not to promote the boards we like above the boards we don't like. But that's just my opinion, and I'm not pointing fingers at anybody. :\

Personally, I'd like to get a project I've been working on for the past two years done in time for this Unity board. I've been working on a shipping database at TRF providing full stats and descriptions of all vehicles and vessels in the Canon universe.

Which reminds me, if anyone wishes to help me with my project, feel free to wander over to the Rebel Cafe at TRF to take a look. Right now I'm posting ships from various eras in the Barebones stats threads. :D

[Vega Van-Derveld]

The discussion that's going on at TRF seems to be centred more on the idea of a broad directory of links (and that discussion is also carrying on at the temporary board that Morgan Evanar set up). What we're discussing here at SWFans is the more selective "alliance" system.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

That discussion has moved to the temp board Morgan set up, Kraken. :)

[Park Kraken]

So what would be, say, the minimum quality of a board have to be in order to qualify for membership in this more select group? Would you rate boards on say, rules, average post count, member counts, average active member status, conduct of members and active enforcement of rules by moderators, quality of writing, how good the graphics are on the board, etc? :)

[Vega Van-Derveld]

Things like the quality of writing, the compatability of the board rules with our own (e.g. not allowing flaming), conduct of members and staff.

Post count isn't really an issue, though. Neither is the amount of members the board has, though I expect we'd want the board to have been running for at least a short while before they become involved, just to show that they're dedicated to it.

(Obviously this is just my personal opinion, not that of the entire staff or other communities.)

[Samantha Koortyn]

I thought that the exclusive idea had been abandoned when TGC dropped out, if there are still two separate things going I'm still interested in both, just not in being a part of the judging process for either. I can help out other ways though. I have time to fiddle around with control panels and other admin-type things for example.

[Park Kraken]

Ok, so now I have a general idea of what some members of SWF would like to look for in a afflilated community. BTW, are you sure you want to do a similar but different project than what is being working on in TRF, or are you just working on, let's say, an close affiliates page?

And what about communities that have say a middle ground. Let's say Community A has good writing, but their members and moderators are pretty snobby. Community B has awesome members, but their writing definitly needs to be improved. Community C let's say has average writing, average members, and average rules. Which community would you avoid, or lean the most torwards?

[Khendon Sevon]

Kraken, you're putting it more in the terms of a competition. There's no leaning, it's a case-by-case decision from what I understand.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Also, it is premature to say what the criteria of this alliance would be, as we haven't decided yet.

Once we get a forum where we can let our hair down and discuss the details, we'll be sharing them.

[Darshanna Sarin]

Originally posted by Samantha Koortyn
I vote to not be more exclusive or choosy when picking people for the directory. If this is what happens, I don't want to be one of the judges. Feeling left out is no fun at all.

I don't really know what my other admins think about it though.

I'm afraid I concur with Sam on this one. I kind of don't blame everyone here that's in favor of this idea cause well, I hate to be blunt, but I know that some places aren't really up to par with their roleplaying skills.

[Tais Voru]

I would think it would be almost mandatory that all participants vote, or judge, in these matters because if not then you might have someone allowed in that you wouldn't want, or someone kept out that you would want in. Voting to me would seem to be part of the very fiber of an alliance like this and without all participating members voting, then the alliance won't work as it should.

Just my opinion though.

Yes, let's get to more discussion on all matters though.

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Originally posted by Darshanna Sarin
I'm afraid I concur with Sam on this one. I kind of don't blame everyone here that's in favor of this idea cause well, I hate to be blunt, but I know that some places aren't really up to par with their roleplaying skills.

It's one thing to not be up to par on RP skills. Frankly I dont really mind some places not being as advanced or to have a younger set of participants and just because they have a different.... style lets say isnt really a reason not to be inclusive.

Unless it's like OMG J00 GOT CUT 1 SABRE IN YUR BASE EATING YUR F00DZ!!!!! then that's a bit different.

What I think the intention of being discerning is to exclude boards that have policies or posters that would be distruptive or not have the best interests of an alliance or whatever or be entering into this with goodwill.

[Samantha Koortyn]

It's hard to judge that though, especially if there are a lot of judges like Tais suggests. It takes months of lurking a board to see how it really is, not a day or two of visiting.

In place of my vote I'd be happy to offer any information I may have about whatever board it is instead. :]

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by Park Kraken
Personally, I'd like to get a project I've been working on for the past two years done in time for this Unity board. I've been working on a shipping database at TRF providing full stats and descriptions of all vehicles and vessels in the Canon universe.

Kraken, i'd love to have something like that on my http://swf-agglomeration.net site. If you're interested.

new forum for discussion set up PM me if you know someone else who needs access: http://www.swforums.net/forum/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=282

[Park Kraken]

Originally posted by Khendon Sevon
Kraken, you're putting it more in the terms of a competition. There's no leaning, it's a case-by-case decision from what I understand.

Competition? No No No. I see where your going, but I'm not trying to laid down the ground rules so that the boards could see which areas they would need to improve in in order for them to be eligible to join the links page, I'm just trying to get an idea as to what you would like to see in a board member.