NFL Offseason

[Jedi Master Carr]

He is an idiot. Why don't you ride with a helmet. What has he been doing spending time with Kevin Winslow?

[JMK]

There more I think about this, the more I think of Ben Toothlessberger as an idiot of the highest order.

I don't give a rip if helmets are legal or not in PA, he should show some bloody responsibility to his organization, to his teammates and to his fans. He's let the team down in a way no other player has in recent memory in any sport.

[Ryan Pode]

Any suddenly, the Ravens have the most stable Quarterback position in the division.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Any suddenly, the Ravens have the most stable Quarterback position in the division.

Well all three teams have QB's now that are very brittle. Honestly, I still see all three of those teams beating each other up.

[Ryan Pode]

It's gonna be tough. Especially with most of the division games in the second half of the season for all the teams. I think if the Steelers off-season woes continue, the Browns could be fighting them for third.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the winner of the division is going to win 10-11 games at most. I think that division will get one playoff team and that is it. The Wild cards will come from either the AFC East, South or West, IMO.

[jjwr]

The Steelers have a brutal early season schedule as well, there is a chance they fall apart and are out of it by the mid-season point.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Then there are two things with the Bengals first Carson Palmer, how will he be in the early going? and then that defense will it get any better?

[Ryan Pode]

If Palmer doesn't make the opener, the Bengals are sunk. Anthony Wright cannot win games.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they are going to have a tough time in Kansas City either way, although if he doesn't go they have no chance, IMO.

[Ryan Pode]

Kansas City is going from veteran to old. And old doesn't work in this league.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Kansas City is going from veteran to old. And old doesn't work in this league.


Well there defense is young and LJ is young the only really old guys are the OL which to me isn't a big deal. Hey I am not saying SB here or anything I am saying they will kill Cinci again like they did the last game of last season if Palmer doesn't play.

[Lamar Starworth]

I just hope that the Bengals can do something with their defense. That was definately their largest weakness last season. Although the Palmer issue is the biggest of them all for their organization presently in my opinion.

[Ryan Pode]

Well there defense is young and LJ is young the only really old guys are the OL which to me isn't a big deal. Hey I am not saying SB here or anything I am saying they will kill Cinci again like they did the last game of last season if Palmer doesn't play.


If Trent Green goes down, who's gonna throw the ball? And if Tony Gonzales gets hurt, who's gonna catch the ball? Yes, there defense is young, but can't tackle. Their WR's aren't that great, the O-Line is averaging 33 years old and their QB is old. Two or three injuries to the line and one to either Trent or Tony and they are done.

It's kind of funny. Marvin Lewis, the architect of the greatest defense ever (2000 Ravens) and here, in Cinci, he can't stop anything. On the flip side, Brian Billick architect of the highest scoring offense ever can't get a first down.

[JMK]

If McNair goes down, welcome to 2005. And it's entirely possible that he does go down. He's aging, and he's injury prone.

[sirdizzy]

Its all good to me, it just means the broncos will win the superbowl this year. They added the element they have been needing, a solid WR with a name other than Rod Smith. Smith is one of those non selfish players too so if Javon turns into the #1 guy he will be very happy to be #2 and nothing is better than a great 1-2 punch at wideout because it keeps teams from doubling over the top and gets you some great 1 on 1 mathcups.

[Ryan Pode]

Bronco's problem wasn't offense, it was their complete lack of a pass rush. As for if McNair goes down, Boller is a better backup than Anthony Wright who guided the Ravens to 2 wins in 8 attempts, one against the Jets, one against Cleveland.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Broncos won't win no SB with Plummer at QB, he chokes under pressure. Its more likely the Colts would win it than the Broncos, IMO. Also the NFC could finally win it this time, Seattle has everybody coming back and added some players on offense and defense. As far as the Chiefs are concerened. I agree if Green goes down things are bad, but heck it was that way last year and the year before that. I didn't want to see Todd Collins in there. So this is nothing new. The same goes for Gonzalez. The defense I am hoping gets better with Edwards as coach, but they do have to stay healthy I admit that and they could finish anywhere from 11-5 to 7-9 this season.

[jjwr]

Don't count out the Pats just yet, this team has a chance to be very good this year. Obviously the big question will be if they can stay healthy. If they can stasy healthy they have the best D-Line in the league, one of the top QB's, one of the top TE combo's and what looks to be a very good RB combo.

[JMK]

It seems a lot of people are going with my Fish as a sexy pick. Michael Irvin (think what you will of him) is taking Dallas vs Miami in the SB. It's not unthinkable (this is the NFL afterall) that it could happen, but it is unlikely. Both teams had decent seasons last year and made significant upgrades during the offseason. Looking at the AFC East, no one is expecting squat from Buffalo and New York and the Pats will be given a serious run for their money.

[Ryan Pode]

http://cgi.ebay.com/Ben-Roethlisberger-Replica-Motorcycle-Helmet_W0QQitemZ8828346114QQihZ005QQcategoryZ25211 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[JMK]

:lol

That's pretty funny...nice joke, unless people are actually bidding on this. Then it's time to call it quits for humanity.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL, I am shocked at that somebody bid over 5,000 for it.

[JMK]

That's why I thought it was a joke. Who in this world would be stupid enough to bid $5,000 on an empty box?

[Ryan Pode]

It's not a box! It's a helmet! :\

[JMK]

The box contains the exact replica of said helmet.

The auction is for a "Ben Roethlisberger Replica Motorcycle Helmet"
The box is not the helmet.

[sirdizzy]

i love that he removed 4 bids and took it back to $4000, the last bid was obviously a fake since that person had registered on ebay today

but the idiot with the 161 ebay rating and he bidding on a bogus auction is just asking for a negative because nobody in their right mind would pay for an imaginary helmet

[Lamar Starworth]

What sort of e-bay bidding is that? I saw an empty box. You can find those in L.A with people in them. That should be worth a little bit more.

Haha, whoever put that up is pretty funny.

[JMK]

It seems Ravens players just can't stay out of trouble:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2514911

Nice picture Roderick. Is that your file photo or a mug shot? What's with the thug smirk?

[Jedieb]

Let's not jump to conclusions. We all know how dangerous bowling alleys can be. Just ask Iverson.

[Ryan Pode]

From everything I heard he tried to run away. And at 6'2, 270 its not like he's a small guy.

[JMK]

He was shanked by a dude with a knife! I'd be running for my life too just out of fear that I'd get impaled again.

And while we're on the topic, who brings a blade to a friggin bowling alley?

[Ryan Pode]

Baltimore = 2nd highest murder rate in the nation.

[Ryan Pode]

http://nfl.com/news/story/9552550

Bengals add Ahmad Brooks, another troubled youth to their impressive lineup alread.

[Jedieb]

I'll tell you right now, if we get a 70's flavored dream match up of Miami V. Dallas I will be at Miami for the Superbowl. My best friend and I spent our childhoods playing football pretending to be Marino and Danny White. It'll cost a pretty penny, but we'll both be there wearing jerseys with 13 and 11 on them.

[JMK]

And I'll just continue to live vicariously through you...

A star wars toy museum
Attendance at all the celebrations
Watching the Fish in the Superbowl.

The trifecta. Damn.

[Ryan Pode]

Doubtful the fish will win the superbowl. And doubtful the Cowboys will make it there as well.

[Ryan Pode]

Lance Armstrong, who Sunday night hosts the taped ESPYs on ESPN, introduced Texas-ex Vince Young to the crowd at Hollywood's Kodak Theater: "Southern California, allow me to introduce you to Vince Young. Take a good look. The last time you saw him, he was just running by you."

[JMK]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Doubtful the fish will win the superbowl. And doubtful the Cowboys will make it there as well.

I agree with you, but every year the Superbowl winner is someone we said wouldn't win the Superbowl at the beginning of that season. For the past couple years we all thought it was basically a no-brainer that the Colts would get there, but they always flame out.

[sirdizzy]

I would never ever have said the colts, peyton manning is the greatest choke artist ever and they will never win a superbowl with him at QB, I even doubt they can make it to the superbowl with him

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the Steelers were a favorite at the start of the season, but it was the start of the playoffs that we didn't think they win. The previous two years the favorite won (NE).

[Ryan Pode]

I think right now the favorite to win it should be Carolina. They are solid on both sides of the ball and deep.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not sure about them, to tell you the truth. That division is going to be very tough, besides I don't think the NFC will win the SB they are just weak. I have a feeling that NE might reclaim the crown the again, but shoot who knows a lot of teams can at this point.

[Ryan Pode]

I see NE down by 2 with 4 seconds left, playing in a snowbowl in New England and out trots Martin Gramatica for the kick... and it comes up short.

By a lot.

The NFC South is a bit overhyped. The Saints might have a great offense. Drew Brees, Reggies Bush, McAlister and Horn. Except the fact they've let their offensive line be depleated of talent and their defense is a joke. Tampa Bay aging defense, shoddy line, Simms is a decent QB, not too great with the deep ball. Atlanta, they are going to have a winning season and probably reach the playoffs per their strange pattern. That leaves Carolina.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by JMK
And I'll just continue to live vicariously through you...

A star wars toy museum
Attendance at all the celebrations
Watching the Fish in the Superbowl.

The trifecta. Damn.

:lol
My best friend will insist that I go if the Fins make it to the Superbowl, regardless of what Dallas does. We both still have family down there. He'll probably buy me and his brother tickets. Man, that would be friggin' amazing.

Here's something to think about, for around 6 years now the loser of the Superbowl ends up falling apart. I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue next season with Seattle. Somebody has to come out of nowhere and have a good season. I think Atlanta might be a hot team. They alternate between excellent and crappy seasons and they're due for a playoff run next season.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Here's something to think about, for around 6 years now the loser of the Superbowl ends up falling apart. I wouldn't be surprised to see that trend continue next season with Seattle. Somebody has to come out of nowhere and have a good season. I think Atlanta might be a hot team. They alternate between excellent and crappy seasons and they're due for a playoff run next season.

I think that's a byproduct of a salary cap system. The NHL is only 1 season in to it, but I'd wager that neither Edmonton nor Carolina get a sniff at the Cup next year. It hasn't seemed to bother the NBA, probably because the cap is so high and players aren't as motivated to go elsewhere - the pay in their current town is just as good as what they'd get elsewhere. But in the NFL, and I'm sure the NHL, as soon as players get their ring they are much more apt to leave the team in droves.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think Seattle is going to fall apart.
A)they only lost one player an OL
B) they signed two high priced FA Burleson and a Petersen
C) They are in a horrible division
The 49ers suck, The Cardinals to me could win 6-9 games (I wouldn't want to rely on Kurt Warner for a full season). The Rams are in rebuilding mode and might be below .500 too. I think Seattle will win 11-13 games barring major injuries.

[Ryan Pode]

Leinhart can carry the Cardinals. All you have to do in that offense is a 10 yard slant to Boldin or Fitzgerald or hand off to Edge. The two things he excells at.

[JMK]

Yeah I think the Cards will be a 8-10 win team. 10 would be the absolute max I would agree with, but I can see it happening if Leinart picks up the game quickly, and Edge continues to be as good as he was in Indy. But I don't think Seattle will be seriously challenged for the division unless they lose their first game vs Arizona.

[Ryan Pode]

This is true. If the Card's line stays healthy, they have a good enough defense to be competitive. Look for Adrian Wilson to have the defense geared towards his style of play.

[jjwr]

The lack of Vinatieri on the Pats does bother me but they have a much better offensive team then they have had in the past. Early word is Maroney is turning heads and is pushing Dillon so they will have a great 1-2 punch at the RB, something they haven't had in possibly forever.

Don't forget how good their D was at the end of last year, that was after it solidified and they got people back. IF they can stay healthy with Harrison back in the middle they could have one fo the top D's in the league.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That offense line though is horrible and I don't see a rookie QB leading them to the playoffs. right now I see 7-9 maybe 8-8 of course that will be second place in that division :p I think the Rams are going to win 5-6 games.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
That offense line though is horrible and I don't see a rookie QB leading them to the playoffs.

Like Roethlisberger? ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Like Roethlisberger? ;)


That is rare though, the odds of that happening again this soon is like 1000 to 1.

[JMK]

Yeah it's pretty rare, I agree with you, but 5 years ago what would you have put the likelihood of the Red Sox & White Sox winning back to back Championchips 80+ years since they last won them in back to back years? ;)

[Jedieb]

Unless Warner gets hurt, I think he'll be the Cards starter. The Cards could be a surprise team, but then again, they've been a pre-season darling for years now and they always end up blowing chunks. I think the best thing for Leinart is to ride the clipboard for a season.

[jjwr]

I'm sorry but while Roethlisberger will be a good pro you can't say that Steelers team in his rookie year was all him. He was asked to do very little and was heavily protected by a power running game and a good line. I would think lots of rookie QB's could do similarly as well if they are surrounded by a team that good.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah Ben was in a great position on that team. Arizona has been in mediocre for years. Only been to the playoffs once in there entire existence in Arizone (heck they have only been to the playoffs once in like 20-25 years if you count their St Louis days). And has Jedieb said they have been considered sleepers the last few years and have done nothing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So where will Ty Law end up? The rumors say it is between the Patriots and Chiefs right now, and he will make a decision soon. I really have no idea, I hope the Chiefs get him but he might go back to NE if he wants a chance at another SB.

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by jjwr
Early word is Maroney is turning heads and is pushing Dillon so they will have a great 1-2 punch at the RB, something they haven't had in possibly forever.

Every rookie is turning heads this time of year.

[JMK]

Yeah, every year its the same damn thing. Rookies are giving it 120% to try and crack the roster and/or supplant the veteran that already plays that position. Meanwhile the entrenched veteran starters are doing what they need to do to get themselves in game shape. It's not like spring training in baseball where the vets spend more time at the hotel pool than on the diamond, but the veterans aren't doing the same things as they did when they were rookies.

[Ryan Pode]

Yes. Even still, mini-camp/training camp heros doesn't mean it translate. Case-in-point: Clarence Moore, WR, Baltimore Ravens. Here's a guy who I witnessed myself make spectacular catches all over the field at training camp. And during the 16-game regular season, what did this translate to: 3 catches, 59 yards; cause of two interceptions (that I can remember). He started the first game of the season, by the fourth game he was on the bench and by the seventh game he was in street clothes.

Once he was a 6th round, 6'6 WR who nabbed 24 passes and 4 TD passes as a rookie. Only to be fighting for his spot a few seasons later.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Ty Law is a Chief
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2527839
Him and Surtain should make a great duo. I am really happy :)

[sirdizzy]

law is a good fit for that defense that has been so horrible the last few years, the defense was improved somewhat last year and it still didn't help them though because the offense is no longer a jugernaut

the chiefs have no recievers and an aging and still great at times TE (I like tony but hes not what he was 3 years ago, hes still really good and a pro bowler but he is no longer fantastic and a player that can be the only recieving threat, he benifits from the running game still though). The running game is still there just like in Denver its only partly the back and more about the offensive like that produces that running attack.

The chiefs have one of the best OLines in the game, Trent Green is doable much like Aikman was in Dallas, give him the pieces and he will do what is neccessary to win games but there is no recievers for that team. They need to find someone to spread the field or they will be losing games 21-17 or 24-21. that offense is still a consitent 20-25 point offense. gone are the 30-35 days but also gone are the 30-35 defenses too. So instead of losing games 35-31 now they will be losing them 24-21.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think they will make the playoffs with Law, even if that is just a wild card. I think they could win 10-12 games. A lot will depend on if certain players can stay healthy. As for Gonzalez the man is still capable, he had a 100 catches the year before. Teams were double and triple teaming him, it makes it tough to catch the ball if you are the whole focus of an opposing defense.

[Jedieb]

I meant to post in the NFL thread earlier this week but I was kidnapped and held hostage by a Cinccinati Bengal.

The signing of Ty Law can only mean good things for KC. It's not going to give them the best defense in the NFL, but it sure as hell will help and they need all the help they can get in that division.

[Ryan Pode]

With Thurman now out for the first four games, I sense a large whole that the Bungles are going to fall in to.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the Bengals might have a very bad season. I am not even sure how Palmer will be ready for the Chiefs game.

[JMK]

Something has gone horribly wrong in Cincy. Marvin Lewis said that character counts when he selects his players, but they've been doing nothing but bringing in guys who can't understand the law and authority. Someone should tell them that 50 Cent and Lloyd Banks are not guys to emulate. Looking back to last year when Chad Johnson apparently had some late season problems with Lewis, you got the impression that Lewis was going to have it. But now it sounds like someone in the front office is undermining Lewis' authority and bringing in talented guys, but who are nothing but trouble. It looks like the Bengals are going to have a very tough season. And to think they were on the verge of being a great young team.

That division could be a mess this year. The Browns will stink, the Steelers could have a SB hangover, the Bengals are looking like they will revert to being the Bungles....leaving the division as Baltimore's for the taking. I can't believe I just said that.

[Ryan Pode]

Karma.

[JMK]

Call it karma IF you win the division. The Steelers are still going to be good, it's just a thought that they will slide. If Toothlessberger is ok to go then I'd still take them as division winner.

[Ryan Pode]

With the abscence of Chris Hope, Polamalu's lack of cover skills will be wide open. Let's face it, Clarke played more like a SS in Washington and the rookie Anthony Smith is not the answer.

[Jedieb]

The Bengals are also going to have a brutal schedule. Yes, preseason hasn't even started yet, but Cincy is easily having the worst off season in the league. But for all we know, they'll tear through the early part of the season and this will all be a distant memory. Or, they could follow the Eagles example of last year where a bad offseason and preseason was just foreshadowing.

[Ryan Pode]

It really depends on whether or not Palmer is back for the quarter of the season. If he is there, at 100%, then I can see the Bengals going 6-5/7-4 in the first 11 games. But that last five game stretch, when the pressure is on. Baltimore, Oakland, @Indy, @Denver, and then Pitt. They may only go 1-4. A late season collapse.

[JMK]

You're right, in their current state I can't see them doing any better than 1-4 in their last 5. We will have to see how they come out of the gates. I'd bet that if they come out strong with a 2-1, 3-1 start then the demons may get swept aside for the year as they will have a great chance to contend for the division.

[Ryan Pode]

One upset or two loses in a row and the Demons will return, no matter how good a start they had.

And...

LeCharles Bentley is gone. And woe beith the Browns.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Plus their defense is horrible. Larry Johnson ran over them in that last game like they weren't there. I think that problem is going to come up for them like it did for the Chiefs in 2004.

[Ryan Pode]

Odell Thurman being out doesn't help much either.

[Ryan Pode]

Willie Roaf retires. Another big hit to Larry Johnson's success.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they have Kyle Turley, who as long as he healthy is good enough to replace him. Of course I am not sure what to do about RT now. They have Jordan Black but he was very inconsistent last year.

[Ryan Pode]

Currently, Kyle Turley is sitting at about 270 pounds. Terrell Suggs weigh's 270 pounds.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Currently, Kyle Turley is sitting at about 270 pounds. Terrell Suggs weigh's 270 pounds.

He thinks he will have his weight up close to 300 when the season begins. They also have Sampson who has a lot of talent but hasn't been healthy much. I am not really that worried. KC has been able to create OL like Denver creates RBs.
Also the tackles matter more for pass protection anyway, I be more scared for Green than LJ. LJ will still have a huge year because KC has the best two guards and one of the best centers in the game. Black and Sampson have both shown they can run block the problem was pass blocking, especially from Black last season. This might mean the Chiefs will be running 55% of the time.

[sirdizzy]

I just read we tried to trade Ashlie Lelie to the Bears for Thomas. I am wondering if they don't think they can produce another RB this year. I'd like to see Dayne get a shot, that OT against the Cowboys was impressive plus we can use Bell just like last year as a change of pace speed guy to go with Dayne's power.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Denver wants Thomas more so for the fact he is a 1300 yard back with the Bears offense and they can just envision him being very good in the Denver system.

[Jedi Master Carr]

And they want to get rid of Lelie because he will be nothing but a problem for them this year.

[Jedieb]

Roaf's retirement is a huge blow to the Chiefs. Johnson is still going to be productive, but you can't lose a lineman that good and not suffer some kind of drop off.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The problem is more to the passing game. When Roaf was out last year, Johnson average the same amount of yards as he did with Roaf in the lineup. The numbers of sacks went up that was the main difference. That is the only thing that worries me, Green has no backup. If he gets hurt it could be a long season.

[Ryan Pode]

I figure Green, Brady, Manning, and Hasslebeck are all due for an injury.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they might be due but some QB's just never get hurt. Marino and Favre come to mind they stayed healthy just about their entire careers. Green has had some major injuries and missed large parts of a couple of season when with the Rams and Redskins. A lot of is luck I suppose.

[Ryan Pode]

His time missed with the Rams was because of the cheapest hit I've ever and probably ever will see in my life. Rodney Harrison goes for the mans knees, in a pre-season game. Talk about class.

[sirdizzy]

ummm marino tore his achilles heel in like 1992 and was out most of the season, I remember that because he became so much more stationary after that

you should have said elway and farve because elway never substained an injury that kept out of more than 2 games in his 16 year career

[Jedi Master Carr]

I was not 100% certain about Elway and I forgot that Marino missed the 92 season.

[sirdizzy]

when in doubt ask a broncos's fan

elway started a minimum 11 games every year of his career, and the 11 games was his rookie season after that he played in at least 12 games every year

i was wrong on marino he was out most of the 93 season not 92, playing only 5 games. Elway played in 234 games in 16 season marno plyed in 242 in 17 seasons

elways average was 14.6 games a year marino's was 14.2

[Jedi Master Carr]

I was certain about Farve. I thought Marino was an iron man, but he had that one season. For some reason I thought Elway missed a few games the year they won their second SB.

[sirdizzy]

he missed 3 games that year and part of another one but that was it

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
he missed 3 games that year and part of another one but that was it
Okay I thought he missed a couple of games that year but I wasn't sure. Thanks for clearing that up.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs traded for Michael Bennett from New Orleans. I think that says that Priest Holmes is probably done.

[Ryan Pode]

Sad. :(

[JMK]

If he was smart, he'd stay retired. He had a dominant run of about 5 years. He will be remembered and missed on the field, but it's better for him to stay off the field from now on and preserve his health.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I honestly think he should too. I loved the guy he gave the Chiefs some great moments and he has a SB with Baltimore but his health is a problem. Anytime you have neck isses you should think about calling it quits, you could get paralyized for life. And nothing is worth that.

[Ryan Pode]

He was the Raven's first 1,000 yard rusher.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah he was. I wish he could make in the HOF but like Terrell Davis it is going to be very tough for him.

[JMK]

Yeah I don't think he's going to make it in. There's been a lot of dominant RBs in this generation and Marshall Faulk will probably be the benchmark for getting in during 95-05+. Of course Emmitt Smith will be there too, and a couple others I'm not thinking of at the moment, but both Faulk and Smith have SB rings.

[Jedi Master Carr]

If Holmes coudl have played a few more season and been dominant I think he would have.

[Ryan Pode]

The thing that will help Holmes the most is him being undrafted.

[jjwr]

Doubtfull, what will help him most is all the combined yards and touchdowns. The guy had some monster years but only a few of them. He did a lot in a short span of time and the comparison to TD is the best one. If TD can't make it then no way does Priest get in. Even with TD going in it will be tough for Priest, TD had the 2,000yds and Super Bowl MVP and a 2nd Super Bowl win.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The only precedent is Gale Sayers who played for 6 years and was a very dominant player for a short time. But I am not sure if either TD or Priest were as good as Sayers.

[Ryan Pode]

Davis had some monster years and monster post-season games, which accounts for something. I don't think Holmes will make it in for a long time because he had two great seasons. On the other hand, I think his linemen will be HOFers fo'sho.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs have had two automatic HOFs on the line. Shields and Roaf are going in. I think if Walters keeps playing the way he has, he will as well.

[Ryan Pode]

It came! It came! It came! My authentic Steve McNair jersey yay!!!

[sirdizzy]

well tom nalen on the denver line should be a shoe in for HOF plus a few others. And you want to talk undrafted how bout Rod Smith, I mean the guy has put in more than a decades worth of solid seasons, had a couple great ones and has 2 superbowls as well and he might not be a first balloter (unless of course he sticks around 3-4 more productive years).

His numbers are
797 Receptions, 15th all time (a 50+ year in 2006 should vault him into the top 8 after that its jimmy smith who I believe just retired with 862 receptions, then marvin harrison with 927 at #6 and art monk at with 940 at #5)

65 tds, 37th all time (this is where his numbers aren't too fantastic but with 5 tds he can move up to 28th, with 10 tds 23rd, with 15 tds 18th, his tds will probably only be 5-8 at most in 2006)

10,877 recieving yards, 16th all time (not much to move up here a 1018 yard season would only move him to 14th and a 1400 season only to 12th)

hes also 41st in yards from scrimage and a good 1000+ season could move him into the low 30's

hes clearly the most productive undrafted player ever but is it HOF worthy

[jjwr]

Smith is incredible, if he had been a #1 draft pick his numbers would be great but considering he was undrafted?

Hard to say if he'll make Hall though, so many good receivers are coming through with incredible numbers that its getting hard for players to stand out.

Irvin can't make it in and he had great numbers but even his numbers are starting to get passed by a lot of players.

Figure the following guys are currently playing or retiring soon, all will finish well over 10,000 yards with oodles of TDs and receptions - Marvin Harrison, TO, McCardell, Keyshawn, the afforementioned Jimmy Smith, Torry Holt, Isaac Bruce, Muhammed, even Moulds.

Then the young guys coming up, Steve Smith, Fitzgerald & Bouldin in Arizona, Ward, Chad Johnson, etc...

Its going to be very tough for WR's to make it in out of this group.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course I think Irvin's history, drugs etc is hurting him.

[sirdizzy]

If Smith gets in I think it will be because he was undrafted, what he has done fpr undrafted players has been amazing. The other guys are first or second rounders, they will have to live and die by their numbers why smith gets that bonus for not being drafted.

And hes still productive, right now it would be a hard stretch for him to get in but if he can be productive for just a few more years his numbers will mostly all be top 10 numbers

[Ryan Pode]

Speaking of production Mike Bell, is the #1 in Denver RB chart.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I was shocked to hear that. Of course that is just for a preseason game, that could change before the season starts.

[Ryan Pode]

And another one bites the dust.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AsJcpBUTPZOE3DQhMccPg3pDubYF?slug=ap-bengals-steinbach&prov=ap&type=lgns

[JMK]

Unbelievable. What the hell is going on with these Bengals? This is a complete mess!

[Ryan Pode]

Maybe they have incentives to get arrested in their contracts?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I didn't realize the Raiders had moved to Cincinnati:p

[JMK]

Funny, I was thinking the Trailblazers were tossed out of the NBA and were sent to play football in Cincy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Funny, I was thinking the Trailblazers were tossed out of the NBA and were sent to play football in Cincy.

LOL that works as well.

[JMK]

:lol

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2544230


COLUMBUS, Ohio -- Maurice Clarett was arrested early Wednesday after a highway chase that ended with police using Mace on the former Ohio State running back and finding four loaded guns in his truck, a police spokesman said.

Officers used Mace to subdue Clarett after a stun gun was ineffective because the former Fiesta Bowl star was wearing a bullet-resistant vest, Sgt. Michael Woods said.

"It took several officers to get him handcuffed," Woods said. "Even after he was placed in the paddy wagon, he was still kicking at the doors and being a problem for the officers."


Who does this guy think he is? Commando? 4 loaded guns and WEARING a bulletproof vest? Talk about a kid who's really gone downhill. From scoring the winning touchdown in the National Championship in 2002, to being a known fellon just 3 1/2 years later. And predictably, he was caught in Ohio. Maybe it's not a problem with Bengal players exclusively - maybe the entire state has a problem with its football players.

[Ryan Pode]

I don't know, the Browns just seem to get hurt.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It's all the beer they drink in the state :p Seriously, I think he is just a messed up person and he will be going to jail for a long, long time now.

[jjwr]

Me and a couple friends made it down to Pats training camp on Tuesday, it was a blast!

Its fun to see these guys in that kind of atmosphere, joking with each other, having fun. Course Belechick looked grumpy the whole time but thats par for the course :)

We hung around afterwards in a vain attempt at some autographs, I probably could have gotten some but it was getting late and didn't feel like sitting there all night holding up my ball.

I did get up close to a lot of the players though just to check them out, I was within 4 feet of Mike Vrabel, Dave Thomas(Rookie TE from Texas), Troy Brown(!!), Tom Brady(!!!!), Laurence Maroney(Rookie RB). Great times. Even had a brief conversation with Troy and hoping he would sign my ball but he didn't. Brady was working the crowd, he covered the entire bleachers and all the people on the hill at the end. The rest of the players did a few small sections which was fine but I get the feeling Brady knows people want to see him so while he didn't stop at any one place to sign he moved along the whole way and signed as he went and a huge crowd followed him hoping for a signature.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cool I always wanted to do something like that, I almost went to a patriots one when I was up in Boston one summer.

[JMK]

What a mess Clarett is in. It's unreal how this guy went from the cusp of having the world in the palm of his hand, to a complete bust. And check out the ego on that kid. Either completely conceited, or completely greedy...but from the link below, you get the sense that both may be true.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?id=2545078

[jjwr]

It was a blast Carr, its the first I"ve been to so I can't compare it to any others but it was definetly worth it. All free and you get closer to the players than you will at any game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by jjwr
It was a blast Carr, its the first I"ve been to so I can't compare it to any others but it was definetly worth it. All free and you get closer to the players than you will at any game.

Very cool, one of these days I will go to one of these things. The only thing I have done like that was to go to the Red Sox spring training when I was a kid.

[Ryan Pode]

I went to Ravens training camp. Not only did Steve McNair sign my authentic Steve McNair jersey, but he laughed at my joke. He gave a sweat wrist band to a girl and his towel to a kid next to me so I asked for his socks. And then Matt Stover, was signing autographs and all these little kids kept asking him if he'd seen Ray Lewis or Ed Reed and I was like "Hey number three, have you seen Matt Stover?" He too laughed. Adailus Thomas was funny as was Dan Wilcox and Mark Clayton. All in all a fun time and a must-do for all football fans.

[Ryan Pode]

I had the Rams & Colts preseason game on and Joe Buck lost his glasses!!! :o

[jjwr]

What kind of crowd was there?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I turned it at one point and the place looked pretty full. A lot of people go to the preaseason games because they can't get tickets to regular season games. And I think they might be cheaper too. I actually hate preason games. The only thing they show is how good the rookies are going to be and how good the backups are.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Hey, the Niners won their first Pre-Season game.

*does a little dance* :crack

[Jedieb]

I can't recall ever ignoring a preseason like I am this one. Baseball is just too good right now. The first game I'll probably watch is ESPN's first MNF broadcast tomorrow. I'm curious to see how Tony K. does. I loves me my PTI.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Preaseason generally sucks. I tried watching the pats-falcon game and it was just boring. I think it is for two reasons a) neither team uses there playbook, they just do simple plays, b)even though they say it they don't play to win, they either don't want to get anybody hurt or are judging talent. I really think its time to get rid of a preseason game. I just don't see the point to them. For example the Colts went 0-5 last year and it really hurt them.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
The first game I'll probably watch is ESPN's first MNF broadcast tomorrow. I'm curious to see how Tony K. does. I loves me my PTI.

I really hope to watch this. PTI is awesome, Tony K and Mike Wilbon are like an old married couple bickering over every small thing. If Tony K brings the same levity to MNF as he does to PTI, and formerly his ESPN radio show, then this will be my favorite MNF lineup of all time. Except they still have Theismann in there. That's going to suck hard.

[sirdizzy]

Well preseason does matter for this one reason. Clinton Portis dislocated his shoulder last night trying to make a tackle on an interception. They are not sure how long he will be out but if its a significant amount of time thats a major blow for washingtons hopes this year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
Well preseason does matter for this one reason. Clinton Portis dislocated his shoulder last night trying to make a tackle on an interception. They are not sure how long he will be out but if its a significant amount of time thats a major blow for washingtons hopes this year.

I agree with you there, that is the one thing teams don't want to see happen injuries in preaseason. It is the reason why the Chiefs only threw 6 passes in the first half of their game.

[Jedieb]

Here's why the Ravens will not win the Superbowl this year:
http://espn.go.com/i/page2/photos2/tmq_sean.jpg
Male cheerleaders, what in the Wide World of Sports is going on in Baltimore?! ;)

[JMK]

At first glance I thought Boller was demoted to head male cheerleader.

[Ryan Pode]

Baltimore is the only team with male cheerleaders. They are also the only team with an actual marching band.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by JMK
At first glance I thought Boller was demoted to head male cheerleader.

:lol

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Baltimore is the only team with male cheerleaders. They are also the only team with an actual marching band.
I've heard the marching band is really good and the Ravens put on one hell of a halftime show. But male cheerleaders?! Honestly, that's something I'd expect from the Niners.

[Ryan Pode]

The band is entertaining. I used to roll with them back in 2003. The male cheerleaders are hardly noticed. Only when the female ones are doing like super high jumps.

[sirdizzy]

I think baltimore would be better of with the male cheerleader than boller at QB.

[JMK]

NFL Golden boy Tom Brady gets linked to the whole Balco scandal:
http://msn.foxsports.com/nfl/story/5879838?FSO1&ATT=HMA

Apparently they had one conversation about future workouts and that's it. They never met or spoke further...allegedly.

But still, this sucks for Brady. Just to have your name mentioned in the same breath as this scandal is damaging.

The NFL has somehow kept itself away from this mess, and I hope for their sake it stays that way.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course we don't know the truth of all this. Most of the major sources aren't picking it up. The New York Daily News is nothing better than a Tabloid when you get down to it. ESPN hasn't even said a word about it.