Super Bowl XL

[JMK]

Let the 2 week hype fest begin!

[Nathanial K'cansce]

It should be a great game, too bad I'm going to get scheduled to work that night, so I'm going to have to miss it.

[sirdizzy]

quit, its worth it

[JMK]

It should be a great game. 2 teams that have not been there either in their entire lives, or for a very long time. I'm expecting big things.

[Atreyu]

For the benefit of us non-Americans, can anyone post what teams are playing, and who the favourite is to win etc?

I once had the privilige of seeing it a few years ago. Won't be able to this year, but it's nice to find out what's going on. :)

[jjwr]

Pittsbrugh Steelers vs Seattle Seahawks. Last I knew Steelers were favored by 3.5 points.

Regular season the Steelers went 10-6 and were the 6th seed in the AFC playoffs and won 3 straight road games to make the SB. The Seahawks were 13-3 and the 1st seed in the NFC Playoffs and won both games fairly easily.

[Yog]

What makes Steelers the favorite is this:

They knock out the team most people thought would win this year, the Colts. Then they knock out Broncos on their homefield, who very rarely lose at home. And they did it convincingly. They seem to have that extra glow in the playoffs that could win them the Lombardy trophy.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

That and they probably have a deeper squad on every side of the ball than the Seahawks.

Honestly, I am happy as can be. This is the first Superbowl in years that I actually want to see. I usually don't care about the NFL, but I do like the Steelers. They're really the only team that I follow.

That being said, I am usually tracking UA alumni when I watch the NFL anyway, and thats why I'm ecstatic to see the Seahawks make the Superbowl, because I went to school with Shawn Alexander. Aside from being a Tide man, he's just an all-around nice guy and great person, the guy has put so much money back into our business school, it's unreal.

[Morgan Evanar]

The Steelers have an incredible defense this year and enough offense to get the job done. They've been a turnover machine and I was suprised how soundly they thumped the Broncos.

The Seahawks aren't impotent but I do think the Steelers have a better team.

I'd also like to see the Bus get a ring. He's a stand-up guy who just loves the game.

[Figrin D'an]

I'll be rooting for Pittsburgh, and have been since the playoffs started. It's time The Scowl and The Bus got their rings.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Yeah I'll probably pull for the Steelers too ;)

I just want to see Alexander the Great have a banner game in the process though.

[Mu Satach]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
... I was suprised how soundly they thumped the Broncos.


I'll say. they came out fast and hard and then never let up through the whole game. It was slightly depressing at my sister's house because both her and her husband are die hard bronco fans.

Personally, I like the Steelers better than the Broncos, but I just couldn't jump and yell estatically when I looked at their faces.

It will be better for the Superbowl, we'll all be rooting for the Steelers on that day... so we'll all be screaming in joy or frustration together. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Pittsburgh is favored for two reasons, one Vegas considers the AFC to be superior. The Last 3 AFC teams were favored in the SB (even Oakland though they got trounced). Then there is the fact Seattle plays in the North west and has gotten ignored all season so it is isn't surprising now. Them being the underdog could motivate them. I am kind of rooting for Seattle right now but it wouldn't bother me if Pittsburgh won. Last time I was in this kind of delima was when the Rams and Titans played and I didn't mind either team winning that one.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Seattle will be able to beat them. They aren't like Denver who so heavily rely on one aspect of their offense. And Walter Jones will show why he is starting in his umpteenth pro-bowl and be just like Johnathan Ogden and make Porter a non-factor. Seattles defense is playing with fire. That's what they need. Fire. Steelers were playing balls-to-the-wall but now they are favored, no matter what they want to think. They are going to realize it in the extra week and lose a bit of their mental edge.

[Jedi Master Carr]

You know that extra week could help the Seahawks more. If they played Sunday it might be a different story but a week to prepare who knows.

[Ryan Pode]

The Steelers get their power from their linebackers. The extra-week gives Seattle plenty of time to negate that edge. But they only have to worry about the right side of their line because Jones & Hutchinson = the <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont>.

[jjwr]

Ok anyone else sick of Favre and just hoping he'll finally either make up his mind or shut up?

As one analyst pointed out all he is doing at this point is hurting the Packers by delaying. Really the key here is are the Packers willing to cut ties with Favre or are they going to go soft and wait for him to retire? If he comes back and the team is healthy they'll win maybe 8 or 9 games next year and have no realistic shot at a Superbowl which will push the teams rebuilding back another year for nothing.

Urge him to walk and start rebuilding, the Packers have had a great run of competitive football but there comes a time when you have to reload and take a few down years.

[JMK]

If you remember he pulled the same stunt last year. The "I'd like to wait until training camp" act. It's crap. If your frame of mind hasn't changed in a year's time, then you've got a problem. Get your rearend in gear and make up your mind.

It's clear as day that the Packers want him gone. When Brett said that he wouldn't play for anyone but Sherman...then it's pretty simple to figure out how to get Favre to leave...FIRE SHERMAN! Which they did, but Brett still won't stick to his word. If that wasn't enough, they just hired a QB Coach to tutor and help develop Aaron Rogers. What says "We want to rebuild" more than those 2 moves.

I'm not suggesting that Favre MUST retire, but he should have made up his mind whether or not he wants to stay there or go somewhere else by now. He's been holding the Packers hostage for 2 years now. Make up your mind already. You've had more than enough time to do that.

[jjwr]

Agreed, and the Packers don't want the PR backlash of cutting Brett Favre. That would have been like the Cowboys cutting Aikman, Dolphins cutting Marino or 49ers cutting Young. All knew when to hang it up and did so but Favre seems to have missed the boat.

Packers should just toughen up and tell him if he comes back he is not guaranteed the starting job or just bite the bullett and send him packing.

[Ryan Pode]

Trade him to Baltimore.

[JMK]

They wouldn't want to sully his good name by doing that to him. ;)

[Ryan Pode]

Aye. Baltimore... where Quarterbacks go to die. :\

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by jjwr
Agreed, and the Packers don't want the PR backlash of cutting Brett Favre. That would have been like the Cowboys cutting Aikman, Dolphins cutting Marino or 49ers cutting Young. All knew when to hang it up and did so but Favre seems to have missed the boat.

Packers should just toughen up and tell him if he comes back he is not guaranteed the starting job or just bite the bullett and send him packing.
Well it happened with Montana, he didn't want to retire and the 49ers had to trade him to the Chiefs. They could end up trading Favre like Montana was traded.

[jjwr]

True! I forgot about Montana.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course Montana was a special case. He had been hurt the previous year and half and he didn't want to go out that way and wanted to prove he still had something. I am not sure if Farve has anything to prove.

[Mitch]

I'll be rooting for the Seahawks. This is the first time in years we've had a good team, and this is the first year I've really paid much attention to football--mainly because of haow well my hometown team is doing.

Yeah, I had always joked with Andrew about a Seahawks-Steelers superbowl, but now it's a reality. I want the 'hawks to win, and think they can do it, though it'll be a rough game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

What does everybody think about the possibility of Owens going to Denver? I think they are insane even thinking of signing the punk, he is a cancer and will hurt that team eventually like he hurt Philly and the Niners before. I love the comments by the Bronco players saying oh we can control him. Well ask Mcnabb about that.

[Ryan Pode]

T.O will show up in the CFL.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL that is what I am hoping for.

[Ryan Pode]

That be sick. T.O. being covered by AFL rejects.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL yeah if he went to another NFL team I would wish him to go to New Orleans, the Raiders or Lions, those three teams have the worst front office personell in the NFL right now.

[Ryan Pode]

BUS AND FOOTE DAYS:@ Gov. Jennifer Granholm is giving two Detroit natives their own days during Super Bowl week.

Granholm declared today Larry Foote Day in the state, honoring the Pittsburgh linebacker who attended Michigan. That comes a day after Jerome Bettis day, honoring the Steelers running back who went to Notre Dame.

"Their commitment to excellence inspires us all, and we wish them the very best in the championship game," Granholm said.



That's one way to fire up Seattle.

[JMK]

And they say the Superbowl is held at a neutral site?

:lol

[Ryan Pode]

Because Larry Foote > Steve Hutchinson.

[Ryan Pode]

In reguards to Joey Porter. He is talking way to smack for a linebacker who has the cover-skills of a lineman. Joey Porter is at his best when he is blitzing, conversely Walter Jones is at his best when he is matched up against linebackers who way a hundred pounds less than him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So when are we going to start making picks for the big game on Sunday. I will go ahead and make mine. I have been thinking about it all week. I think Seattle is being very overlooked. It reminds me of the year the Patriots won over the Rams. Nobody gave them a chance and they were, IMO the better team. Seattle are underdogs and have the better team on paper. Hassleback is the most underated QB in the NFL and he can make the big plays to win the game. I expect a long hard fought out game that will come down to the last quarter, so I am picking Seattle to win 24-21.

[JMK]

I really think the Steelers will cap off an amazing run. They've knocked off the top 3 seeds in the AFC, I think they'll bookend it with beating the top team in the NFC, and Bettis goes out a winner.

Seattle's window of opportunity is still open so I'll give them another shot for next year.

This year I'm going 31-21 Steelers.

[Yog]

While the Seahawks may have a better team on paper (MVP RB and Hasselbeck), Steelers got that extra winners spirit that is going to win it all. I was not a Steelers believer before the playoffs, but the Colts and Broncos games were wakeup calls for me.

Steelers 31
Seahawks 24

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Steelers over Seahawks, by 10. Not a farseer, so I won't predict the actual score. ;)

[sirdizzy]

Steelers 38
Seahawks 31

[Ryan Pode]

Gut says Steelers. Brain says Steelers. Heart says Seahawks.

'Hawks by 6, 60 point spread.

[jjwr]

Moon made the Hall of Fame in his first try! Thats awesome.

White, Aikman, Madden, Carson and....crap forget the last guy also made it in...

[jjwr]

This was the last guy

SI.com: Most people don't know much about Rayfield Wright.Tell me about him.

Dr. Z: Wright's a senior candidate. The only negative was Wright, a tackle for the Cowboys, gave up three sacks to Greenwood in Super Bowl X. But the people who supported him rode through that. Wright was a finalist last year, and was very generous thanking people just to get to that level. He's a very gentle, humble man. I've supported him all along and I'm glad he made it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I wish Derrick Thomas had got in, I think he will eventually, maybe next year. It is suppose to be a very weak class next year so he should make it. Not sure about Irvin the drug mess is really clouding him.

[Ryan Pode]

Thomas will get in for sure next year. I think it might also be Art Monks year as well.

[Jedieb]

Steelers 38
Seahawks 17

[CMJ]

Odd that the consensus is that Pittsburgh should win when I think Seattle is the btter team. Yet most people are rooting for the Seahawks.

I on the other hand think Seattle will win but am rooting for the Steelers.

:lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
Odd that the consensus is that Pittsburgh should win when I think Seattle is the btter team. Yet most people are rooting for the Seahawks.

I on the other hand think Seattle will win but am rooting for the Steelers.

:lol
LOL I think you, me and Ryan are the only ones picking the Hawks here. The only thing is the fans are mostly Steeler fans, not sure what that means. Pittsburgh hasn't won a big home playoff game when it counts in like 10 years and Seattle has been weaker on the road.

[jjwr]

I've been behind the Hawks for a while now(pretty sure I officially picked them...)

Problem with both THomas's is the pool was very deep this year and not enough room for everyone.

As for the game so far, good game so far but I can't believe that TD wasn't overturned, that seemed very obvious to have been stopped on the line. Twice now in two games the Steelers have had a big challenge go their way(will that make Porter happy?)

Jackson should have had a TD there, all he had to do was hold the ball out over the line.

[Yog]

Willie Parker! Yeeees!

[jjwr]

Doesn't look like he's that fast but he does move.

Steelers really haven't put together anything spectacular so the Seahawks are still in it, they need a TD on this drive though.

[jjwr]

And they miss a FG instead. What I don't get is the Hawks move the ball at will, get in short situations and then keep going deep but missing. They should just stick to 10yds at a time.

[Yog]

What a HUGE interception and score by the Seahawks

[jjwr]

Wow...we have a game again! That was about to be ball game, at least it'll be interesting for a while.

[CMJ]

I know most people prefer offensive fireworks, but I love these slug'em out games. What a terrific SuperBowl so far!

[jjwr]

Agreed, very good game so far. Not really sloppy though, just two very solid defenses keeping each other in check.

[CMJ]

And we move the 4th with Seattle driving and the Steelers up four. Looks like a whale of a finish.

[jjwr]

Yup! I hope its a close finish and neither team runs away with it.

I'm curious if Alexander will do something in the 4th...

[jjwr]

Course a lot can change but right now if Seattle wins MVP has to be Hassleback, if Steelers....gosh I don't know, maybe Parker?

[jjwr]

Thats the 2nd huge cheap penalty against the Seahawks, the phantom offensive interference and that big hold when the Hawks would be on the 2.

[CMJ]

Wow, huge interception.

[CMJ]

You gotta love a fake reverse touchdown pass!

[Yog]

Yeah, Steelers return the favor by copying what Seahawks did earlier. Huge interception and huge pass there.

[jjwr]

Betcha the league will get some complaints from the Seahawks after this one, two bad penalties in a row turn the game around and probably seal it for the Steelers....great play though.

[Yog]

Holy crap! Now there is a fumble recovery. Right now, this looks dark for the Seahawks

[Yog]

Looks like after reviewing the play, it was not a fumble after all. It LOOKED like a fumble to me, but then again, what do I know.

[Lianna Mal Pannis]

the bad calls in this game is making me go @_@

It hasnt dampered the game enjoyment for me but it's ruined it for the seahawks -_-

[Yog]

Now its a fight against time for Seahwaks. Steelers is first down, running the clock down with 4 minutes to go.

[jjwr]

Steelers are going to kill the clock and unless Seattle can do something spectacular its over.

Hmmm...I don't see an option on NFL.com to vote for the refs for MVP

[Yog]

Yeah, its all over now unless there is a miracle. Pittsburgh Steelers is the winner of superbowl!

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr Hmmm...I don't see an option on NFL.com to vote for the refs for MVP

:lol

While I won't say the Steelers won because of the officials, most of the big calls certainly went to Pittsburgh.

[jjwr]

It was the timing of the calls....Hawks basically lost 2 TD's while the Steelers got one

[jjwr]

Wow, stupid call, what is Holmgren thinking?

Way to lose the game with some horrible clock management and play calling.

[Lianna Mal Pannis]

mvp for the officials?

rofl

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know it was a very poor game, not as bad as the Tampa Bay blowing out Oakland but it wasn't as entertaining as any of the last two SB's or the two SB's that had the Rams were in. Also the Officials looked like morons out there, and they said this was the best they had?

[jjwr]

Pretty sad if this is the best they've had. I know its tough but they should know better than making borderline calls in the Superbowl. Without that last holding Hawks would have been up 17-14 and had a great chance to win the game.

Good MVP pick, also two years in a row a WR was picked MVP, very unusual!

[Ryan Pode]

I am glad I worked. Boring superbowl. Most boring SB since 33.

[Yog]

I was looking at the celebrations. What an emotional moment for the Steelers. Its fun when an outsider goes all the way to win it all in the playoffs. Ward had an amazing game. And the Bus made his last stop in Detroit.

[Ryan Pode]

F the Steelers. The Bus is an overrated Ricky Watters. He'll end up like Art Monk. Everyone will be "OMG!111 he should be in the HOF!" and in five years, people will be like "wtf, he wasnt great"

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
I am glad I worked. Boring superbowl. Most boring SB since 33.
Which one was that? I would say the Ravens winning over the Giants was the most boring. Alot of that had to do with the Giants playing horrible. Tampa Bay beating up on Oakland is second I would put this one close to Denver beating Atlanta, at least in the last ten years. Believe me the blow outs in the 80's don't compare to any of the boring games we have seen in the last ten years.

[Yog]

Most boring.. I dont know about that. I will take this game over any of those routine victories of the patriots. The 4th quarter was boring yeah, because Steelers had a difficult to catch lead and they could run the clock down. But it was a close game in the 3/4th of the game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
Most boring.. I dont know about that. I will take this game over any of those routine victories of the patriots. The 4th quarter was boring yeah, because Steelers had a difficult to catch lead and they could run the clock down. But it was a close game in the 3/4th of the game.
The patriot win over Carolina was a great game, came down the last four minutes. Not to mention the game with the Rams that game went back and fourth the last quarter. Those two along with the Rams victory over the Tiants were the best three SB's of this decade. This one was down there with Baltimore and TB and Denver's triumph over Atlanta for me.

[Lianna Mal Pannis]

there were some great plays by the Hawks to try and make a comeback but yeah, 4th quarter was a yawn but at least the Hawks went out fighting. I can respect that after all the bad calls >_<

[Ryan Pode]

Ravens one had its moments. Namely the most exciting 37 seconds in superbowl history. And Carolina/Patriots was a good finish. Even though I dislike the Pats.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Ravens game was boring, in part the Giants didn't belong there, and I understand why Ryan you liked it. I loved watching the Niners kicked the Broncos tail back in 90 but it was one of the worst SB's ever now that I look at it.

[Ryan Pode]

The Ravens/Giants was the only superbowl where one teams offense failed to score a point.

And, did anyone listen to it on EPSN radio, cos Marv Albert and Boomer Esiason were on fire. That had to have been the best called game I've ever heard.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
The Ravens/Giants was the only superbowl where one teams offense failed to score a point.

And, did anyone listen to it on EPSN radio, cos Marv Albert and Boomer Esiason were on fire. That had to have been the best called game I've ever heard.
That right there is why it was a bad super bowl :p the general public likes seeing offense, but a competive game. That game had no offense and it wasn't competive, but still it isn't as bad as SB 20, 24, 26-29. Man there were some bad SB's from the mid 80's to the mid 90's.

[Yog]

Now that the season is over, its maybe a good time to reflect on the year gone by and what to expect next year.

This year was full of surprises. The one major disappointment for me was how the Eagles collapsed and the whole Terrel Owens controversy. Also, how Colts bowed out in the playoffs was a major downer for me. I like that there is a new winner of the SB, maybe we can stop talking about dynasties for a while.

I dont expect Steelers to defend their title next year, Patriots will probably have a rebound of sorts (although, I doubt they will win Lombardy trophy). Colts.. you gotta wonder how many times they have to mess up in the playoffs and if its going to happen again next year. Maybe next year, its the Chiefs turn or the Broncos.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it is hard to say, I would throw about 12 teams in there who have a chance maybe more. The biggest headache is the labor agreement, they need to get one worked out in the next month or else the NFL might lose the Salary Cap, if that happens we might be watching a lot of SB's with the Redskins, Giants, Patriots, Cowboys, Jets, etc. Mainly just the big market teams the small market teams will have trouble surving just like in baseball.

[Yog]

So basically, the salary cap is what prevents the big team from just buying the best players? Lets hope the salary cap stays. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
So basically, the salary cap is what prevents the big team from just buying the best players? Lets hope the salary cap stays. It will be interesting to see what happens.
Pretty much, owners like Dan Snyder, Bob Craft and Jerry Jones would just buy the best players, it would be like in Baseball with the Yankees, Red Sox's, Braves, etc doing the same thing. They are still in the talking stage, so hopefully they can work it out.

[Yog]

Im going to miss the pickems and playing fantasy football. Its such a long drought until next year. What to watch until then? NBA does not interest me at all. I guess there is soccer, but I grew bored of that too. Watching sports in general dont interest me like it used to. Rally is exciting though.

At least there is the Olympics very soon, and I am gonna have some fun watching that.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well for me there is College baskeball, until baseball season comes up. I don't care about the NBA. I am not sure about the Olympics, I might watch some of it. I just don't follow most winter sports. I know one thing your country will probably kick our tail :p

[Ryan Pode]

The Steelers wont repeat. Because the Bus wont be back and they wont feel the need to be like "OMG lets win a superbowl for fat ricky watters!!!111"

[JMK]

:lol

Just look at that AFC North bitterness!

I took a look at the Seahawk newsgroup. Man what a bunch of whiners. The Seahawks didn't get very lucky in this one, but the refs sure as heck didn't give it to the Steelers. That's just sour grapes. They had their chances to get in the game and they dropped the ball.
They're over there calling the Steelers the Stealers, and that Pittsburgh's 12th man was the refs. Really sad to see a bunch of crybabies like that. They had a great season, but they lost to the better team today.

[Ryan Pode]

Eh. Steelers got lucky this season with injuries.

Carson Palmer.

Nick Harper (wife sliced his knee a few days before the game and couldn't return that fumble the whole length of the field because he couldn't run full speed).

The Seattle FS and Rocky Bernard.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Eh. Steelers got lucky this season with injuries.

Carson Palmer.

Nick Harper (wife sliced his knee a few days before the game and couldn't return that fumble the whole length of the field because he couldn't run full speed).



I think had Palmer not been injured, the Steelers would have been out the first round.

And even though Harper was injured, I seem to remember watching that game and saying to my dad, "wow, Harper's playing incredible ball, even though he got stabbed the day before..." He had an amazing game, and lesser players probably would have sat out. If anything, I'd blame Indy's loss on Manning and his mental block in big game situations.

[Ryan Pode]

If they had another half of football, they would have won. But I don't think the Steelers will be the best team in the AFC North next year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
If they had another half of football, they would have won. But I don't think the Steelers will be the best team in the AFC North next year.
Neither do I think the Bengals will win that division again. You know what is really funny if the Chiefs had beaten the crappy Bills they would have made the playoffs instead of the Steelers. I guess in that scenerio the Colts would have made it to the SB. I didn't see the Chiefs winning 3 straight road games, at least not last year's team.

[Ryan Pode]

Steelers just had luck. Lots of strange luck. And next year, it won't happen again. As for Seattle. The window is closing fast. Hutchinson and Alexander are probably gone, at least one of them, that will be enough to hurt them.

[CMJ]

I actually thought it was a really good game. I like defensive struggles though. ;)

[Rutabaga]

It was a good game, up until the last few minutes when Hasselbeck threw the interception. Then it was literally game over, not much more to do but run the clock out. And yup, there were those couple of bad calls that went in Pittsburgh's favor, but Seattle also had 2 missed field goals and great passes that ended up just inches out of bounds. So anything could have happened.

On a side note about the whole Super Bowl hype, I have to say that the commercials this year, by and large, sucked. There were a couple of cutes ones that I liked (the streaking sheep in the Budweiser ad, Leonard Nimoy in the Aleve ad, and the great Addicted To Lost ad :)), but there wasn't one single one that's going to go down in history as memorable and clever.

[jjwr]

The Seahawks definetly didn't play a great game, 2 missed field goals, dropped balls, but when you combine that with the questionable calls...



The Seahawks didn't get very lucky in this one, but the refs sure as heck didn't give it to the Steelers. That's just sour grapes. They had their chances to get in the game and they dropped the ball. They're over there calling the Steelers the Stealers, and that Pittsburgh's 12th man was the refs. Really sad to see a bunch of crybabies like that. They had a great season, but they lost to the better team today.

You really can't discount what they are saying. There were 3 huge calls, all went against the Hawks which cost them TD's.

1st Quarter the phantom offensive pass interference, cost them 4 points.

2nd Quarter the Ben "TD", I've yet to see a analyst say they thought he scored(at least an impartial analyst). The Ref initially ruled it down and then changed his signal. Why would he change it after the play on his own? When he was on the ground he was behind the line.

3rd Quarter the holding penalty. Hawks would have had the ball on the 1 and with Alexander thats almost assured a TD, instead its called back, Steelers get the INT and then the TD, a 10-14pt swing.

[jjwr]

As for next year....


Patriots will probably have a rebound of sorts (although, I doubt they will win Lombardy trophy).

Looking at the teams as of now and going forward to next year I don't see how the Pats won't be one of the top 2-3 teams in the league. Their schedule is a cream puff compared to last year.

Dont' forget the Pats made it into the 2nd round of the playoffs and it took an absolute collapse on their part not to win the game and host the AFC Championship game with a decimated roster, 2 Rookies starting on the O-Line, Brady with a Hernia.

Imagine for a second what this Pats team would have done had 1/3 of its roster not gone down? A shadow of the Pats team almost hosted the AFC Championship, if this team had been healthy all year I don't see how they wouldn't have had a very good chance at the three-peat.

[JMK]

The Steelers were a team of destiny. It happens almost every year in any sport. But let's face it, the Steelers won their last 8 games, including the last 4 agains the FOUR BEST teams in the NFL. That's not luck. They were fortunate with the Palmer injury, but they hammered the Colts and the Broncos straight up. Neither team played their best yesterday, but the Steelers came up with more big plays when they had to: the pass to Ward to the 3yd line, the Randle-El trick play, the Parker TD. Seattle did none of that and their clock management in the dying seconds of the was some of the poorest I have ever seen. They simply did not deserve to win the game.

[Jedieb]

Bettis, first ballot HOFamer. Bitter Ravens fans will just have to deal with it. :cool

Sloppy game. I don't think it was that great of a defensive contest. The Seahawks moved the ball up and down the field in the first half. Every time they got in the red zone they either shot themselves in the foot or got Brokeback Mountained by the officials. I honestly can't remember a worst officiated post season.

The Steelers won because they made big plays when they had to. Their defense gave up yards, but got tough when it needed to. That 3rd and 28 completion by Big Ben was just ridiculous. The fake reverse was the perfect call. A backup DB gets suckered in and Randel-El threw the best pass of the night. That ball led Ward perfectly pass the defender and right towards the endzone. Then you've got Parker's record setting run that set the tone for the second half.

As badly as the refs screwed the Seahawks, they mangled the clock at the end of both halves. It was like watching the Eagles all over again. Does any team in the NFC know how to run a 2 minute drill anymore?

[jjwr]

I also believe the Steelers would have lost to the Bengals had Palmer played...but he didn't and they took advantage. Injuries happen.

Agreed Jedieb, horrible overall officiating, the NFL should be embarrassed about its ref performance in the playoffs.

As for the Steelers, you could definetly tell things were going their way. A number of plays that shouldn't have happened went their way, mainly the huge Ward catch on the 3. A jump ball like that would typically be intercepted but only DB was in the area and he was out of position.

[jjwr]

Bettis, first ballot HOFamer. Bitter Ravens fans will just have to deal with it.

Maybe...he'll definetly get in but he may not be 1st ballot. Thurman Thomas didn't get in on his first shot and while he doesn't have the yards he did more in his career. Don't forget the current Bettis love won't be present in 5 years and lots of great players will be coming up and getting missed. There are going to be some very tough decisions on the HOF going forward, so many eligible players that each year more and more will be left behind. While many will eventually get in it'll be 3-4years after they first become eligible.

[Ryan Pode]

In five years Bettis hype = GONE. Bettis just has longivity. He never had great numbers. he was just a big fat kid who everyone says "HE GETS FIVE YARDS A RUN! HES SO GREAT!" Not quite. 3.9 career yards per carry. I've seen him stuffed for 1 yard losses more than I've seen him run past 5 yards. He hasn't been good for the last five or six years, easily. He's just overrated. With the line the Steelers have had the past two years, I could run for 3.9 yards per carry. Heck, they had a backup at college rush for 1,200 yards. He didn't play in college for a reason.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
The Seahawks definetly didn't play a great game, 2 missed field goals, dropped balls, but when you combine that with the questionable calls...


If Matt doesn't throw the INT to Ike in the redzone, if Jackson gets that right foot down, if Brown makes those two field goals, if Jerramy Stevens actually caught more than he dropped, if Seattle's 34-yard punt return isn't called back by a hold, if Seattle's 18-yard pass play on third down isn't wiped out by Gray's hold on Farrior, etc, etc, etc.

Bottom line is, it wasn't just officiating, not by a long shot. Yes acouple of those calls were weak, but the Seahawks had their chances..

[jjwr]

Ah but don't forget if the phantom hold hadn't been called then Matt would never have thrown the INT and the Steelers would never had the Randle El TD....

Officiating did not lose the game for the Seahawks but it was a factor and thats the problem. It was bad enough for the officials to play roles in the other playoff games but they were way too visible in the Superbowl.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
In five years Bettis hype = GONE. Bettis just has longivity. He never had great numbers. he was just a big fat kid who everyone says "HE GETS FIVE YARDS A RUN! HES SO GREAT!" Not quite. 3.9 career yards per carry. I've seen him stuffed for 1 yard losses more than I've seen him run past 5 yards. He hasn't been good for the last five or six years, easily. He's just overrated. With the line the Steelers have had the past two years, I could run for 3.9 yards per carry. Heck, they had a backup at college rush for 1,200 yards. He didn't play in college for a reason.


Bettis will probably get in on his first try because he is quite simply a durable Earl Campbell. And if he wore a Ravens jersey instead of a division rival's you'd be naming your children after him. Not only did Bettis put up similiar numbers to Campbell, but he out lasted him by 5 full seasons. In Campbell's last 2 seasons he struggled to get around 500 yards each season (468, 643), but in those same seasons Bettis gained 1,091 and 1,341. He's got over 90 TD's and you also can't overlook how his leadership will sway HOF voters. The Steelers weren't babbling like an Oprah studio audience last year because they were all on the same menstral cycle, it was because they felt like they let their leader down. This year he was one of their rallying cries and the image of him being the first running out of the tunnel will still be in the minds of HOF voters. His yards, his TD's, this ring, his reputation as a team leader, and his longevity will get him in the HOF. You know what doesn't get you in the HOF? Rushing for 2,000 yards one season and then letting prison flashbacks reduce you to a fantasy bust while you're still in your physical prime. :evil

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
Ah but don't forget if the phantom hold hadn't been called then Matt would never have thrown the INT and the Steelers would never had the Randle El TD....


Says who?

[JMK]

Bettis is going to the hall, plain and simple. Thurman Thomas is not in the Hall because the media isn't particularly fond of him. EVERYONE loves Bettis, except for Bitter AFC North fans.


Bottom line is, it wasn't just officiating, not by a long shot. Yes acouple of those calls were weak, but the Seahawks had their chances..

Leave it to my man Court to say it like it is. I'm glad someone else agrees with me. Sure, the officials had a larger part in the outcome than you would have liked to see, but the Seahawks shot themselves in the foot every time they had a chance to get back in it.

No one talks about the block in the back that was laid out on Big Ben on his interception. No one mentions the fact that even though Hasselbeck was technically 'down by contact', he was NOT knocked down by Foote. He barely got a hand on him. If he missed getting a hand on his jersey, that would have been a fumble, so the Seahawks should consider themselves lucky that it wasn't worse than it was.

[jjwr]

Says who?

Don't go all JLB on me and say that the same exact play would have happened even if the Hawks scored after being on the 1 :)


Bettis is going to the hall, plain and simple. Thurman Thomas is not in the Hall because the media isn't particularly fond of him. EVERYONE loves Bettis, except for Bitter AFC North fans.

Bettis will go, a top 5 all time rusher will find a way into the Hall but if he's a 1st Ballot will depend on who he goes up against. Right now you have Deion Sanders retiring who is a lock, possibly Favre who would be another lock. Plus carry overs that get pushed back due to guys like Emmitt, Tim Brown, etc. Its really hard to say who will make it.


Leave it to my man Court to say it like it is. I'm glad someone else agrees with me. Sure, the officials had a larger part in the outcome than you would have liked to see, but the Seahawks shot themselves in the foot every time they had a chance to get back in it.

I'm not saying the Hawks didn't pooch the game, had they played even average they would have won this game. The problem is they had a few very legit chances to end drives in scores but very questionable calls cost them.

What if the Big Ben TD was called back? What if holding was called on the Randle El TD? The Hawks had these great plays but theirs were negated, the Steelers weren't.


No one talks about the block in the back that was laid out on Big Ben on his interception. No one mentions the fact that even though Hasselbeck was technically 'down by contact', he was NOT knocked down by Foote. He barely got a hand on him. If he missed getting a hand on his jersey, that would have been a fumble, so the Seahawks should consider themselves lucky that it wasn't worse than it was.

As far as I know on a INT return you can block a player anyway you want, Big Ben was trying to make a tackle and he was blocked out of the way.

As for the 'down by contact'. That is part of the rules of the NFL, its not different than a player diving forward and being "tagged" after falling. He wasn't tackled but he was touched while down.

[Yog]

Im with CMJ on this one. Questionable referee calls aside, Pittsburgh was the driving force out on that field. Sure those calls did not help, but in the end, it was a losing struggle. Seahawks should actually concider themselves lucky they did not lose by more.

[jjwr]

Were we watching the same game? Seattle drove up and down the field on the Steelers, what they lacked was execution - 2 missed FG's and the other already discussed problems which kept them from scoring.

Steelers scored on a 75yd Run, 1yd "TD" run(set up by a very lucky catch) and a 45yd trick play TD.

Thats not exactly what I would call dominating scoring drives.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by jjwr
Don't go all JLB on me and say that the same exact play would have happened even if the Hawks scored after being on the 1 :)


Well it's not like Pittsbugh scored immediately afterwards. IIRC they converted 2 third downs on that drive before the gadget play.

[JMK]

If Ben's TD had been called back, it would have been on the 1 inch line. Let's just call it a formality.

Seattle was able to drive up and down the field, they just lacked finish. They didn't choke, they just couldn't get the job done.

[jjwr]

Well it's not like Pittsbugh scored immediately afterwards. IIRC they converted 2 third downs on that drive before the gadget play.

Point is the drive never would have happened and they would have been down 17-14 so the play calling would have been different. I know its arguing something that didn't happen but its still a valid point :)


If Ben's TD had been called back, it would have been on the 1 inch line. Let's just call it a formality.

It would have been 4th down though and a FG would have tied it. Nothing was guaranteed, at worst it would have been a tie game afterwards.

Anyone hear the story that both Montana and Bradshaw wouldn't attend the Superbowl as past MVP's due to the NFL not giving them enough $$$?

[Yog]

Yeah, but the Steelers missed opportunities too. I counted at least 2 drives where they really should have gone all the way to the red zone and scored. And in the final quarter, do you believe the Steelers would have run the clock down if it was a close game? I think they would have really gone for it, and scored another touchdown. Instead, they did the smart thing and secured the victory. For the entire second half, I had the feeling Steelers had an extra gear to play on.

Ok, so they were not dominating, but they could have won by more. And yes, Seattle could have done more with the opportunities they had, but they did not. I do not find that scenario any more likely than the other.

[Jedieb]

Lots to go over about this game, but the more distance we get from it the more it's apparent that we didn't exactly see the best these teams had to offer. I think it's fair to say they each played their worst game of the post season. I blame the 2 week layoff. We probably could have gotten a better game last weekend.


No one talks about the block in the back that was laid out on Big Ben on his interception. No one mentions the fact that even though Hasselbeck was technically 'down by contact', he was NOT knocked down by Foote. He barely got a hand on him. If he missed getting a hand on his jersey, that would have been a fumble, so the Seahawks should consider themselves lucky that it wasn't worse than it was.
Even if Foote hadn't of touched him, the fumble probably would have been overturned becuase Hasslebeck's elbow clearly touched the ground before he fumbled. That makes him down by contact, no fumble.


Were we watching the same game? Seattle drove up and down the field on the Steelers, what they lacked was execution - 2 missed FG's and the other already discussed problems which kept them from scoring.
I have to agree with jjwr a bit here. To me, Seattle was clearly setting the pace for much of the game. They could have easily gone into halftime UP 17-7. They just never closed the deal. But it just wasn't the penalties, it was poor clock management, and missed opportunities. Take that pass that Jackson almost caught for a TD. What was more difficult, making that catch or Randel El throwing a perfect ball to Ward for that amazing TD? And what about Stevens? Holy crap, I think he missed the team flight back to Seattle because he kept dropping his luggage. The Seahawks were just never able to make THE play. Alexander had a solid game, but he and the line never broke the big run that Parker and Faneca did (I think that's who pulled on that counter tray).

"Is Jerome Bettis a first ballot HOFamer?"

"Definitely. 5th leading rusher, champion, leader, ... (more of what I keep talking about.) Tom Jackson on NFL Live. Irving and Jaws just concurred, although Irving is such a bonehead I'm not sure that helps the Bus's case.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by jjwr

Anyone hear the story that both Montana and Bradshaw wouldn't attend the Superbowl as past MVP's due to the NFL not giving them enough $$$?

Montana left early because he went home to watch one of his kids play basketball, or something like that. But what irks me is that if they had plunked down $100K he would have been there. So much of what makes Montana the legend he is is the Superbowl. He SHOULD have been there. (Rumor has it HE would have been the QB to toss the coin, not Brady.) Damnit, if Bart Starr is there, YOU SHOULD BE THERE. As for Bradshaw, he's a knucklehead. The fact that the Steelers were playing should have gauranteed his presense. Swan and Harris were there, Bradshaw should have joined his teammates. How nuts did that crowd go when Harris pulled out the Terrible Towel and started waving it around? But Bradshaw has a long and not so happy relationship with the Steelers since he's retired so it's not really a surprise that he skipped the game. But if FOX had been covering it and he'd been getting paid you know he would have been there making a putz of himself.

[jjwr]

Even if Foote hadn't of touched him, the fumble probably would have been overturned becuase Hasslebeck's elbow clearly touched the ground before he fumbled. That makes him down by contact, no fumble.

Really? Even if no one touches you but your elbow is down then your considered down? Not being argumentive, geniuinely curious.

Agreed 100% on the Seahawks Jedieb, even with the poor calls against them they had every chance to win this game but couldn't execute.

Really it took an awefully lot to go Pittsburghs way for them to win this game, Hawks pooching themselves, Holmgren unable to read a clock, Refs making questionable calls, and then their scoring plays weren't exactly the routine type. Regardless how it happened it seems the Steelers were meant to win this one.

I honestly forgot that Bradshaw played for the Steelers...wow...can't believe he wasn't there. That makes no sense at all. Ditto on Montana, if he didn't want to go cause of his kid thats one thing but to ask for the cash too?

How about the Steelers fans booing Brady & Branch? Nothing like a little sour grapes :)

[Ryan Pode]

Jerome Bettis hasn't impacted the outcome of a game against the Ravens since the 20th century.

[JMK]

Yeah, and the Ravens haven't impacted ANYTHING since they won the SB. Who cares what Bettis does against the Ravens.

[jjwr]

Agreed, thats totally irrelevant.

Bettis will be a HOF'er, the question is when?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Montana left early because he went home to watch one of his kids play basketball, or something like that. But what irks me is that if they had plunked down $100K he would have been there. So much of what makes Montana the legend he is is the Superbowl. He SHOULD have been there. (Rumor has it HE would have been the QB to toss the coin, not Brady.) Damnit, if Bart Starr is there, YOU SHOULD BE THERE. As for Bradshaw, he's a knucklehead. The fact that the Steelers were playing should have gauranteed his presense. Swan and Harris were there, Bradshaw should have joined his teammates. How nuts did that crowd go when Harris pulled out the Terrible Towel and started waving it around? But Bradshaw has a long and not so happy relationship with the Steelers since he's retired so it's not really a surprise that he skipped the game. But if FOX had been covering it and he'd been getting paid you know he would have been there making a putz of himself.

Well the report has been denied by Bradshaw and Montana. Montana said his kid's game was more important and hey he is a father a 40th SB isn't as important as his kids. As for Bradshaw he said he wanted to be with his family who knows what was the reason there.
Ok about the game. I don't neccessarly like Bayless but it was interesting that he argued the Seahawks got robbed
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=bayless/060205

I agree it was awful officiating. The League needs to something about that, you should have 3 bad calls in the SB. The block on the INT was horrible a high school official shouldn't have made a call that bad. I don't think it was the only reason but it didn't help matters for Seattle. Also I don't think Pittsburgh played that great, Big Bed played awful, IMO. And they only had 3 plays offensively, Big Ben's pass on third down, that long run and the trick play, if they hadn't gotten those they would have lost. Still, Seattle shot themselves in the foot with the drop catches, especially Stephens, and a couple pentalties, (there was a pentality that killed them earlier on a drive), and of course the poor clock managment at the end of the First Half. To me Pittsburgh didn't win the game, Seattle handed it to them.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Jerome Bettis hasn't impacted the outcome of a game against the Ravens since the 20th century.

Well, since the Ravens haven't really mattered much lately, that's more than enough, isn't it? :evil
Originally posted by JMK
Yeah, and the Ravens haven't impacted ANYTHING since they won the SB. Who cares what Bettis does against the Ravens.
Oops, missed that someone pointed out the obvious. :thumbup




Well the report has been denied by Bradshaw and Montana. Montana said his kid's game was more important and hey he is a father a 40th SB isn't as important as his kids. As for Bradshaw he said he wanted to be with his family who knows what was the reason there.
I still think Montana should have been there. They were BOTH there the week before the game. That was a pretty impressive sight to see all those Superbowl MVPs together. Having Bart Starr come out and present the Lombardi Trophy after the game was a classy touch. One guy should have been there for his former teammates and the orginazation that made him what he was, the other because he's Joe Frickin' Montana and he had not 1, not 2, but THREE Superbowl MVP's to his name!

Bottom line, after a great playoffs, the game was a bit of a letdown. Both Seattle and Pittsburgh turned in there worst performances of the playoffs. I believe the better team won, but if Seattle had played their best, they would have beat the Steelers yesterday.

I won't even watch the Pro Bowl next week, I never do. The season's over and it's time to start fighting withdrawals. Good lord, when will MLB's opening day come to rescue me? :cryin

[Ryan Pode]

Pfft. Ravens have done plenty. But considering since the ravens won the superbowl, the Patriots have won it 3 out of 5 times I wouldn't say much of anyone else impacted anything really.

[Jedi Master Carr]

There is always college. Well I don't blame Montana, I guess he cares more about his kids than a photo opp. I do wonder about Bradshaw, I agree with you it was his former team.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Pfft. Ravens have done plenty.

Examples? Aside from Lewis' big season and coke bust?

[jjwr]

More fun with the refs

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/story?page=thepulse

[jjwr]

And some more, regardless of why the wrong calls were made this is going to be a black eye for the NFL, this perception is only going to grow

http://proxy.espn.go.com/chat/sportsnation/polling?event_id=2011

[Ryan Pode]

Let's see:
2001: 10-6, playoffs; had no running back; beat Miami, lost to Pittsburgh
2002: 9-7, salary cap purge the off-season before, 108 yard missed field goal return (longest play in NFL history at the time),
2003: 10-6, playoffs, Jamals big season, defensive and offensive players of the year.
2004: 9-7, kept steelers from going 16-0, brought Rothlesberger into the NFL, 107 yard INT return (longest play from scrimmage), defensive player of the year
2005: 6-10, split series with superbowl winner, knocked Vikings from playoff contention, showed Kyle Boller might have potential.

That's about the gist of it. With defenses ranking in the top 10 every year but 2002.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They need to make the refs full time, that would help the situation a lot, IMO.

[jjwr]

I don't think it would make much difference, they only play one game per week and have 2-3 days prep time. What they need is to either let the marginal stuff go or allow replay on certain types of penalties.

Why exactly are we talking about the Ravens?

[JMK]

I sort of hijacked with the Ravens. I asked Ryan to explain why what Bettis did vs the Ravens in the last 5 years was at all relevant to his legacy.

As for the officiating, I always used to say that the single biggest difference between the CFL and NFL (aside from the rules and athletes themselves) was the difference in the quality of officials. The CFL was putrid for so many years, this past year included. But they have publicly acknoledged it, and are working on retraining the people who will call the game. The NFL seems to have had several significant games this year marred by poor or questionable officiating. I just don't know how they can fix this. They can't get these guys to quit their day jobs. They can't allow replay on everything - that would just open pandora's box. Maybe the answer is to have penalties be 5 yards each, except for unnecessary roughness and a few select others. I don't know, but this is going to be a big problem for the league if they don't at least acknowledge that they have some issues to address.

[jjwr]

At the very least they need to rethink the pass interference penalties and make that a 5yd penalty. Spot of the ball on defense is way too much.

Sorry, I knew the reason we were talking about the Ravens but they are so irrelevant right now that there really isn't much point to mention them.

[Ryan Pode]

Full time refs can attend practices and thus make the players more aware of penalties while honing their own skills.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by jjwr
At the very least they need to rethink the pass interference penalties and make that a 5yd penalty. Spot of the ball on defense is way too much.

Sorry, I knew the reason we were talking about the Ravens but they are so irrelevant right now that there really isn't much point to mention them.
That pretty much sums them up. They haven't won more than 10 games this decade and that's probably going to continue. Even money says a team like the Dolphins will be more of a playoff force than them next year.

As for the refs, they should be full time. Let them spend part of the off season in NFL Europe if they need work. And damnit, KEEP THE CREWS TOGETHER! Enough with cherry picking refs from different crews because they've graded better. Grade crews and individual refs. The only way you don't make a playoff crew is if you grade in the bottom 25%. See, I've solved your ref problem Taglibue. Cut me a check and we'll call it a day.

[Ryan Pode]

10-6 - 2003, 11-5 - 2001. Research before bash.


And Pass Int. 15 yard penalty + first down.