NFL Pick 'Em, Week 12 (Thanksgiving Picks Due By Thurs 12:30)

[Jedieb]

Thanksgiving
Atlanta at Detroit
Denver at Dallas

Sunday Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati
St. Louis at Houston
Carolina at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee
New England at Kansas City
Chicago at Tampa Bay
San Diego at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland
Jacksonville at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle
Green Bay at Philadelphia

Sunday Night
New Orleans at NY Jets

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis

If you want to quickly post your Thanksgiving Day picks and hold off on your weekend picks, go ahead. Just make sure you use another post for your weekend games. I'm making all mine later this afternoon so you pathetic losers can see who the big dawg is going with. :shootin

[Yog]

Thanksgiving
Atlanta (W) at Detroit
Denver (W) at Dallas

Here are my thanksgiving predictions. Pick against me at your peril :evil

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Thanksgiving
AtlantaWIN at Detroit
Denver at DallasWIN

Sunday Early
Baltimore at CincinnatiWIN
St. Louis WINat Houston
Carolina at BuffaloWIN
San FranciscoWIN at Tennessee
New EnglandWIN at Kansas City
Chicago at Tampa BayWIN
San Diego at WashingtonWIN
Cleveland at MinnesotaWIN

Sunday Late
Miami at OaklandWIN
JacksonvilleWIN at Arizona
NY Giants at SeattleWIN
Green Bay at PhiladelphiaWIN

Sunday Night
New Orleans at NY JetsWIN

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at IndianapolisWIN

>D

[Jedieb]

Week 12
Thursday
WIN Atlanta at Detroit
Denver at Dallas WIN

Sunday, Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati WIN
WIN St. Louis at Houston
WIN Carolina at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee WIN
New England at Kansas City WIN
Chicago at Tampa Bay WIN
WIN San Diego at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota WIN

Sunday, Late
Miami at Oakland WIN
WIN Jacksonville at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle WIN
Green Bay at Philadelphia WIN
New Orleans at NY Jets WIN
Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis WIN

[Jedieb]

Broncos at Dallas is set to be one of the best Thanksgiving games in years. Certainly one of the most meaningful in years. It's been awhile since a Dallas Thanksgiving game has had this many playoff impications. Big test for both teams.

HA HA Owens!!! No pay for 4 games and then just sit and rot for the rest of the year. The Eagles don't have to play you and because they're still paying you for the remainder of the season, they don't have to release you and let you latch on to a playoff team while they rot in the NFC East cellar. Nice job Rosensnake!!!

[JMK]

I was over the moon to hear that the suspension was upheld. Finally, at long last someone told a millionaire narcissistic, egomaniacal athlete a two-letter word that does not even register in their vocabulary:

"NO."

T.O. is the poster boy for the selfish, spoiled athletes. Since it was determined that they were a gifted athlete, family, friends, posse members, coaches, agents, teammates, media types have always catered to and bowed to these guys. I'm so glad that someone finally stood up and told them to go take a hike.

And what does this say about Rosensnake? Now his client's stock is really low. The only shot he had was joining another team during THIS season and helping them to win the big game. That's the only chance he had at getting a nice long term deal. Now his value has never been lower, and I love it.

[jjwr]

Thanksgiving
Atlanta(W) at Detroit
Denver(W) at Dallas

Sunday Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati(W)
St. Louis at Houston(W)
Carolina(W) at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee(W)
New England(W) at Kansas City
Chicago at Tampa Bay(W)
San Diego(W) at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota(W)

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland(W)
Jacksonville(W) at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle(W)
Green Bay at Philadelphia(W)

Sunday Night
New Orleans(W) at NY Jets

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis(W)

[sirdizzy]

Atlanta
Denver

Sunday Early
Cincinnati
St. Louis
Carolina
Tennessee
New England
Tampa Bay
San Diego
Minnesota

Sunday Late
Oakland
Jacksonville
Seattle
Philadelphia

Sunday Night
NY Jets

Monday Night
Indianapolis

[sirdizzy]

Owens has screwed himself out of millions because not only is he an idiot and selfish but also because he listened to someone who was greedy and only in it for himself. Oh look I got me a new client, I needs me some of that money, I'll feel his head full of ego bulshit, like how hes so great and how they aren't respecting him by not giving him more money and he'll get a new contract and hmm I can dip my fingers in that pie.


The deal Owens had with the Eagles is the best deal he could ever get, it was fat at 7 million dollars and it was for 7 years guarnteeing paying him tell he was 40 and well past his prime. No team is going to offer him more than 3-4 million and 1 or 2 years. He will likely lost anywhere from 20-25 million dollars in the long run because hes an idiot.

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Atlanta (W) at Detroit
Denver(W) at Dallas


Baltimore at Cincinnati (W)
St. Louis (W) at Houston
Carolina (W) at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee (W)
New England (W) at Kansas City
Chicago(W) at Tampa Bay
San Diego (W)at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota (W)


Miami at Oakland (W)
Jacksonville (W) at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle (W)
Green Bay (W) at Philadelphia


New Orleans (W) at NY Jets


Pittsburgh at Indianapolis (W)

[Rutabaga]

Thanksgiving

Atlanta (W) at Detroit
Denver (W) at Dallas

Sunday Early

Baltimore at Cincinnati (W)
St. Louis (W) at Houston
Carolina (W) at Buffalo
San Francisco (W) at Tennessee
New England at Kansas City (W)
Chicago (W) at Tampa Bay
San Diego (W) at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota (W)

Sunday Late

Miami (W) at Oakland
Jacksonville (W) at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle (W)
Green Bay (W) at Philadelphia

Sunday Night

New Orleans (W) at NY Jets

Monday Night

Pittsburgh at Indianapolis (W)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thanksgiving
W Atlanta at Detroit
Denver at Dallas W

Sunday Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati W
W St. Louis at Houston
Carolina at Buffalo W
San Francisco at Tennessee W
New England at Kansas City W
W Chicago at Tampa Bay
W San Diego at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota W

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland W
W Jacksonville at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle W
Green Bay at Philadelphia W

Sunday Night
New Orleans at NY Jets W

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis W

[Ryan Pode]

Thanksgiving
Atlanta at Detroit Win
Denver at Dallas Win

Sunday Early
Baltimore Win at Cincinnati
St. Louis Win at Houston
Carolina Win at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee Win
New England at Kansas City Win
Chicago at Tampa Bay Win
San Diego Win at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota Win

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland Win
Jacksonville Win at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle Win
Green Bay at Philadelphia Win

Sunday Night
New Orleans at NY Jets Win

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis Win

[JMK]

Thanksgiving
Atlanta at Detroit (w)
Denver (w) at Dallas

Sunday Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati (w)
St. Louis (w) at Houston
Carolina (w) at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee (w)
New England at Kansas City (w)
Chicago at Tampa Bay (w)
San Diego at Washington (w)
Cleveland at Minnesota (w)

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland (w)
Jacksonville (w) at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle (w)
Green Bay at Philadelphia (w)

Sunday Night
New Orleans (w) at NY Jets

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis (w)

[Yog]

Falcons are really giving the Lions a trashing..

[JMK]

I really didn't want to take the Lions as I didn't think they had a shot, but if I want to make up ground in the contest then I've got to go out on a limb sometimes.

[Yog]

Exciting game in Dallas. Broncos are in the lead 14-7 so far.

[Jedieb]

Way to go Billy Cundiff. The Broncos dodged a few bullets, but it looks like they're going to get out of Dallas with the win. Here comes the kick by Elam after the big run by Ron Dayne...
Reminds me of the infamous Leon Lett Thanksgiving game. Ughh.

[JMK]

Salvaged a 1-1 record for the day. Phew.

[Yog]

I faced Crumpler in 4 out of 8 fantasy leagues today. What are the odds of that, and one heck of a timing.. :rolleyes

[sirdizzy]

Despite the score that was one hell of a defensive game. 28 of the 45 points were scored or set up by the defenses. Until that last Bronco drive with 2 plays for 62 yards neither offense really did anything. Dallas controlled time of possesions but Denver showed poise and put them away when they got the chance,

Last week we saw that the indy defense is somewhat of a mirage this week we got to see that Denvers defense is for real. (Without the Plummer INT and the Anderson fumble this game is not that close and we both know Indys defense is no where near as good as dallas').

So shaping up to be a good AFC Championship game

[JMK]

Mooch is on the clock, as we had predicted here a few weeks ago. The Lions were just AWFUL yesterday. Probably their worst game of the year, on thanksgiving of all times.

[jjwr]

So shaping up to be a good AFC Championship game

Agreed, after the Pats take apart that Denver D they should do well against the Colts ;)

[Jedieb]

The Cowboys should have had 2 INT's yesterday. Plummer threw an ball that bounced right off Newman's chest that should have been returned for a TD. The Cowboys defense outplayed Denver's yesterday. They gave up 14 points in regulation and kept Denver off the field. The offense dominated the clock and should have had 24 points and the win. One thing is for sure, the NFC looks much better than it has in years.

[Ryan Pode]

Detroit should have had two more picks as well, but alas Dre Bly's stump couldn't hold on.

[sirdizzy]

The days of New England are ending, it was a good run but their depth problems because of all the injuries will hurt them in the playoffs. I expect to see them in the divisionals because they can beat somebody wild card weekend but thats as far as it goes.

[Ryan Pode]

I dunno if the Pat's can make it that far. They are how the Ravens were back in '03. Good enough to win a bad division, but not good enough to win in the playoffs. Cinci/Pit, Jacksonville, or San Diego/Denver will be some of the teams in Wild Card play, and they can beat New England.

[JMK]

I won't count that team out until the game is OVER and they have less points than the opponent. They have always found a way to win. The old saying "Any given sunday" endures because it's true.
Bottom line is, I wouldn't take any bet involving the Patriots and their playoff success, or lack thereof this season.

[Jedieb]

It was a close game yesterday, but still, Denver has to feel very good about itself. A win is a win and they made the plays they needed to. I think everything Denver has done in the offseason has been to get past Indy in the playoffs. I think it's worked out better than Shanahan expected because it really does look like they may not even see Indy until the AFC championship game. They're keeping the heat on Indy which is bad news for the Steelers. If Mionday Night's game were at Pittsburgh and Big Ben was 100% I think they'd have a much better chance of pulling the upset.

[jjwr]

Definetly a good win by Denver, their problem will be in the playoffs. Last few years they looked good in the regular season and got creamed in the playoffs.

Don't count out the Patsies yet, they are the only team to beat the Steelers with Big Ben and almost came back from 28 down to beat the Bronco's.

No they are not as good as last year but they are getting better with each game, giving up less points and less rushing yards. Its no coincidence that they have had the same secondary starting the last 2 games(first time this year) and have had Seymour back as well. By the time the playoffs roll around Dillon should be back and the defense will have played together for half a year.

I'm not saying they will roll to the playoffs but all things considered, both schedule and massive injuries to key personell they are doing quite well and could knock off anyone.

[sirdizzy]

But the Denver team that got rolled the last 2 years is vastly different from this years team.

Lets start with the defense

Bringing in half of the Browns team seemed crazy but that front four coupled with Trevor Pryces return has been a monster. The problem with the last 2 years is they could not pressure the QB, in the playoff losses Manning had all day to sit back and disect that denver secondary that was slightly weak. People were saying at the beginning of the year they were getting pressure but not the sacks but now you see the denver front 4 getting the sacks as well and forcing turnovers. The Depth of the their D lineman has also given them a great edge they are able to rotate out players all day and stay fresh while they wear out an opposing teams offensive line.
Week 12- 1 sack, 1 int, 1 defensive TD
Week 11- 3 sacks, 2 ints, 3 fumble recoveries
Week 10- 4 sacks, 3 ints, 1 TD
Week 8- 2 sacks, 2 ints
Week 7- 1 Int, 1 Fum Rec (in a loss to the Giants)
Week 6- Nothing, nada, zip (this was the NE game)
Week 5- 1 Fum Rec, 1 Blocked Kick
Week 4- 2 Sacks, 2 Ints, 2 Fum Rec
Week 3- 2 Sacks 1 Fum Rec
Week 2- 4 Sacks, 1 Int, 1 Fum Rec, 1 TD
Week 1- 1 Int, 1 Fum Rec (in a loss to Miami)

So you can see as the season has progressed, Denver is getting to the QB more often and getting many more oppurtunites. Thats a pretty good stat line for a Defense after 11 games- 18 sacks, 13 Ints, 10 Fumble recoveries, 1 Blocked Kick, 3 TDs.

The Secondary
This has been one of the best drafts I have ever seen for CBs. CBs are a rare comodity in the NFL and Denver drafted 2 of them who could be considered for Rookie of the year. Williams and Foxworth are adding great depth to Bailey who now that he is finally starting to get healthy is making up one of the better Secondaries in the league. The problem with Bailey is he takes chances, you saw that in Dallas he took a chance and got an Int for a TD then on the very next drive they baited him with the same chance and he got beat for a TD. Thats why the depth is so critical.

The Linebackers
Not much changed here, they got Ian Gold back making this one of the best starting LBs group in the nfl with Al Wilson and Dj williams. Problem is they have zero depth at this possition.

Ok Offense Now
The only addition has been a more varied running game and a almost mistake free Plummer. Tatum Bell and Mike Anderson are the scariest one-two punch at RB in the entire league because of their vastly different running styles. Its like facing a curve ball specialist for one inning then having to face a fast ball pitcher the next inning, then right back to the curve baller. This is why you see Bell gashing teams for 40+ plays almost every game, this is why Dayne gashed the Cowboys for 55 yards to win the game.

And Plummer is relenquishing in a defense that has kept every game but one from getting out of hand (the season opener in Miami). Denver is almost always playing with a lead, meaning Plummer doesn't have to do anything but caretake the team. His stupid mistakes are almost nil now and his abilty to roll out with the running game makes him dangerous.


The best thing you can do to beat the broncos is to turn the game into a shootout, but Denvers D has kept that from happening all season by pressuring the QB and forcing turnovers (24 in 11 games is an average of more than 2 a game). Manning will have some luck against this Denver D, but not like the last two years where he had all the time in the world to throw and a denver secondary that was like swiss cheese. BUt unless they can jump to a huge lead the game will play into denvers hands, hard mouth running ball control offense.

[jjwr]

The problem with Denver is at some point Plummer will have to step up and win a game on a big stage and then the proof will be in the pudding.

Not that I dislike Denver in any way and Plummer has had a great year but I wouldn't count on him until he can get it done when it counts the most.

[sirdizzy]

Then again that might never happen, are you forgetting Trent Dilfer and the 2000 Ravens. Granted Denvers D is no where near as good as that Ravens D but Plummer is a better QB than Dilfer and he has a much better running game supporting him than Dilfer did.

[jjwr]

Oh agree Plummer is definetly better but don't forget Plummer's colorfull history. While he's played much better so far I'm just hoping he doesn't have a 4 INT meltdown in theplayoffs.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think if they get the colts in the playoffs they will get creamed for a third time.

[JMK]

I agree. Especially if it's indoors. Maybe they won't get creamed, but there's no way you could convince me to take the Broncos in that game. In the NFL this year, it's the Colts, and then everybody else. No one is close to them this year. We'll be able to confirm that or deny it after MNF.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well in the AFC I completely agree. The question is, is there a team in the NFC that can take them? Best two NFC teams are Seattle and Chicago, the Seahawks will get homefield, IMO. But I am not sure how good they are, Alexander is amazing and maybe he keeps the Colts off the field. The Bears defense is great though I think their lack of offense will kill them, besides if Seattle gets homefield I think they won't get beat at home.

[JMK]

There's no one in the NFC that can compete with the Colts. The Seahawks are playoff busts year after year. The Bears are surprising but like you said, no offense. The Colts D would run them right off the field.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well if the Seahawks can get homefield I think they will make it to the SB although that doesn't mean anything.

[sirdizzy]

At what point have we forgotten that the colts themselves have been playoff busts year after year. Denver has improved but all everyone can remember is their past. The colts improve about half as much as denver and they are the next coming of jesus or the 1989 niners.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They just look too good, IMO. And I wouldn't call them playoff busts they team that keeps beating them is the Pats, and if they don't beat them this year, I don't see anybody doing it.

[sirdizzy]

I am sorry the colts were underachieving long before they started to run into the patriots. For nearly a decade now they have had the most talented offensive trio (harrison, james manning) and nye a superbowl visit. They brought Dungy in because they were underachievers and this was before the patriots too.

Everyone thinks Manning choking in the post season is a recent trend and forgive him because recently it has been against the poweful pats. But Mannin was choking long before the patriots won their first superbowl. And I honestly believe he will find someone to lose to this post season whether it be the steelers or denver or soneone else enitirely.

[sirdizzy]

I hate to bring this up

1999 ten L,16-19
2000 mia L,17-23
2002 nyj L,0-41

this is 4 years before there first run in with the patriots

[Yog]

Colts look stronger than in previous years. Their offense is more balanced between running and passing game, and they also have a defense which we saw none of last year. They are more impressive results wise too. If the Colts were to play Broncos at Denver, Colts would win, period. Thats something I could not say for any other team, because Broncos are very tough at home.

[Yog]

Sunday Early
Baltimore at Cincinnati (W)
St. Louis (W) at Houston
Carolina (W) at Buffalo
San Francisco at Tennessee (W)
New England (W) at Kansas City
Chicago (W) at Tampa Bay
San Diego (W) at Washington
Cleveland at Minnesota (W)

Sunday Late
Miami at Oakland (W)
Jacksonville (W) at Arizona
NY Giants at Seattle (W)
Green Bay at Philadelphia (W)

Sunday Night
New Orleans at NY Jets (W)

Monday Night
Pittsburgh at Indianapolis (W)

[Jedieb]

Come playoff time it's all going to be about match ups. The Colts may not even have to face Denver or the Pats. I think the AFC team that can make a run to the AFC Championship game is San Diego. If they can make the playoffs they can scare a lot of people. Until the Championship game that is. Then Marty ball will take over and they'll self destruct. But I wouldn't want to play that team in a WC or divisional round, even at home.

[Jedieb]

Something to look out for in the KC game today, Willie Roaf is BACK. After a 3 and out the Chiefs are driving down the field and have a first and goal at the 2. They're running well early and that doesn't bode well for a depleted Pats defense. TD Chiefs, Johnson practically walked in the end zone on that run.

[Jedieb]

Damn kickers!!! If the Bucs don't pull this game out that's TWO games I'll have lost because idiot kickers have missed chip shot field goals. Yet another example of why Viniteri belongs in the HOF. Ughh.

After Brady's 3rd INT it looks like the Chiefs are going to seal the deal. The Pats made a run in the 4th quarter but they were lucky to even be in that game. The Chiefs drove into the red zone over and over in the first half and kept settling for FG's. Desperation time for Tampa now. 29 yarder, how the hell do you miss a 29 yarder?! :cry

[sirdizzy]

7-2 for me with the rams game to go. The Bucs and Pats screwed me.

Thats 3 ot games this week, Denver won the coin toss went the length of the field and scored, San Diego won the coin toss went the length of the field and scored.

Hmmm maybe we should rethink NFL overtimes hmmm

[jjwr]

I think the Pats defense is definetly showing improvement. Not quite there yet but by the end of the season they should be a much more solid unit. Considering the 4 INT's and the FG's they forced they did quite well.

The bigger problem right now is the injuries on the offense, they NEED Dillon back to have a shot. Givens being out is also affecting Branch's production as he's getting more double teams. Once some people come back they'll be doing ok.

As for the Colts, the D is getting worn out and they are giving up more and more points. Don't count on them just yet.

[Ryan Pode]

Kyle Boller throws 3 and J. Lewis for 113 yards w/TD.

Sure, Cincy was practically in prevent, but it shows what Boller can do when he has time... i.e. an offensive line. Just what I've been saying all year.

[sirdizzy]

8-2, thank you rams and thank you texans for sucking

[Yog]

About the Pats.. where to start? These guys are in all sorts of trouble, worse than I thought. I watched these guys on TV for the first time this season, and man.. all thinkable aspects of their game were shockingly bad compared to last year. Ok, I have seen the results from other games and read the reports, but I really did not think it was THIS bad. I guess seeing is believing.

Its not just their secondary, they had real difficulty at the line of scrimage. Also they had turnover after turnover. What happened to Tom Brady? I thought he was the strong point of their offense. Ok, so the O-line did not give him much time and space to throw.. but he used to be laser accurate even in worse conditions than that. It turns out, without Dillon, they dont have much of an offense, and Dillon struggled so far this year.

Am I counting them out in defending their title. Absolutely. The way they played today, they did not even look like a playoff team. Its official. The Dynasty is over.

[sirdizzy]

on a sidenote that cheifs/denver game is now looking to be a big one. With the win Denver all but elimates the chiefs from winning the division (a 3 game lead, the tie breaker with only 4 games to go is about as good of lock as you can get). On the other hand if the Chiefs can win they can almost claw their way back in. 1 game back and Denver does go into a 3 game easy street (the ravens at home, bills on the road, and raiders at home) but then their is always that Chargers game to finish off the season.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Chiefs would have to be perfect to win the division though, they could do it but sure wouldn't be easy. It was a good win for them, I think the Pats defense kept them out of the end zone most of the game, but the Chiefs Defense played great, IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is why Alexander is MVP, man what a run.

[Jedieb]

The Pats defense stiffened in the red zone, but the Chiefs were having their way with them in the first half. Basically, if you have a decent TE, you own the Pats. They can't cover first rate TE's right now and they're having trouble stopping the run. They simply don't resemble the team that's won those 3 Superbowls. If it wasn't for such a weak division they'd be hard pressed to make the playoffs.

The Bengals were beating the Ravens senseless (34-0) and then apparently decided to phone in the rest of the game. But, at least Lewis finally got me some decent fantasy numbers. On back to back weeks the Bengals have put up 37 pts and 497 yds, then 42 pts and 437 yards against 2 top ten defenses. Maybe those defenses aren't THAT bad, maybe the Bengals' offense is just that good. We'll see just how bad Indy's defense is on Monday Night. I still haven't seen anything to make me think it's regressed to what they've had in recent years.

The odds are still against them gonig undefeated. But it'll be funny to hear how they suddenly stink when they do lose that first game. I guess all the wins before that and the best record in the league won't mean squat. :rolleyes

The Bears keep winning, but damned if the Bucs didn't have their chances. I still don't see enough offense for the Bears to make much noise, but their defense is going to keep them close.

The Seahawks finally realized they have a RB named Alexander and have taken control of their game. Still, the G-Men are a TD and 2 pt conversion from giving us yet another OT game.

[jjwr]

Well I have to reply :)


About the Pats.. where to start? These guys are in all sorts of trouble, worse than I thought. I watched these guys on TV for the first time this season, and man.. all thinkable aspects of their game were shockingly bad compared to last year.[quote]

Yup! Whats scary is how bad their secondary is, shows how big a part of this team Rodney Harrison is. Every throw that Green completed was to a wide open receiver.

[quote]Its not just their secondary, they had real difficulty at the line of scrimage.

This has suprised me, first few games of the year their line was great, admittedly Seymour has only been back 2 games but they are getting pushed around a bit too much.


Also they had turnover after turnover. What happened to Tom Brady?

Lets see....2 rookie offensive lineman, someone starting at center who usualliy plays guard. #2 & #4 receiver out and Starting and backup running back out. You have Evans playing FB/RB who still isn't used to the system and is missing blocking assignments.

All things considered the Pats had a legit chance at this game, 2 INTs went through Branch's hands right into a Defender, the third boucned right out of Dwights hands and was also picked off. All 3 deflections went right to a defender. You take those out of the game and what would have happened?


Am I counting them out in defending their title. Absolutely. The way they played today, they did not even look like a playoff team. Its official. The Dynasty is over.

Most likely they will not win the Superbowl this year but I'm not counting them out yet, this is only the third game they have had the same secondary and Seymour & Bruschi back. No the defense isn't great yet but its getting better.

They still have 5 games and a soft scheudle, the real question is who do they get back and will it be enough?

As for the "Dynasty". Nah, at worse they lose in the playoffs this year and thats not so horrible, next year with a bit luck they won't lose half their players to injury and maybe they can pull 4 out of 6 :)

[Jedieb]

It's over jjwr, just accept it. The long national nightmare is over. :evil

GB is up by a point but it looks like Philly is about to take the lead with just over 5 minutes left. Yep, the kick is good. Which means if this lead holds this game will look like almost every game the Packers have played this year, close, but still a big L.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah the 49ers lost in 85-86-87 in the playoffs, and won two titles in 88-89. and they didn't lose their dynasty status because they didn't win the SB in those three years.

[Jedieb]

Manning does it again, the G-Men have tied Seattle. Still a lot of time left but the kid looked good in the clutch once again.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Seattle can win with this drive though. I think the Refs did a bad job on that replay thing, they seem totatly disorganized, regardless that it was a TD.

[Jedieb]

I missed that fumbled kickoff by the Packers. Now they need a TD to win the game. Anyone want to bet this game will end with GB in FG range? Talk about jinxed.

[Jedieb]

Wow, the Giants now have the ball at the 50 with 2 timeouts and 1:23. I smell a Seattle home meltdown.

[Jedieb]

The G-Men are in FG range.....

[Jedieb]

That's Green Bay's season in a nutshell. They fumbled the kickoff........ OMG, what a boneheaded play on BOTH sides! A late hit gives GB the ball back. Man, that replay makes that call seem bogus. Still, a stupid throw by Favre. GB is still alive.

[Jedi Master Carr]

wow he hooked it, OT.

[Jedieb]

Feely misses the game winner and Seattle gets a second chance. Again, another kicker blows a makeable kick. Man, can anyone not named Vineteri make a game winner?

[Jedieb]

Seahawks win the toss. Man do I hate the NFL OT rules. The OT farce that we see in college football isn't the answer, but they should at least gaurantee each team 1 offensive possesion, then let sudden death ensue.

Favre throws his league leading 20something INT, and the Eagles finally win a game. Big whoop, they're still toast.

[Jedieb]

The Giants just crushed Hassleback on that 3rd down. That's back to back 3 and outs by the Seahawks. Again, the G-Men are at midfield with a chance to win the game.

[Jedieb]

Clutch 3rd down conversion by Manning and Burris. But now the G-Men start with their 100th false start of the game. Shockey again, fumble, but the Giants recover. You know, I don't think Shockey ever had control, but they're not going to review it. That was a good time out by Seattle. Maybe they'll take a look at that catch in the booth. Shockey was juggling that ball the whole time.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
Seahawks win the toss. Man do I hate the NFL OT rules. The OT farce that we see in college football isn't the answer, but they should at least gaurantee each team 1 offensive possesion, then let sudden death ensue.

Favre throws his league leading 20something INT, and the Eagles finally win a game. Big whoop, they're still toast.


I actually like the college rules :p it makes the games very exciting in OT.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is a huge change there, it wasn't a completed pass, the Refs made the correct call.

[Jedieb]

It's such a novelty though. It's fun, but you lose too much of the normal game. I liked it at first, but the thrill is pretty much gone. The refs made the right call. Shockey was juggling that ball all the way. Good TO by Holgram. The Giants should have gotten to the line quicker. You snooze you lose. Still, it's just 2nd down.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Feely is going to be the goat if Seattle wins, although honestly they should have punted there.

[Jedieb]

Bad decision by Manning to take off running. 54 yard kick... not even long enough. The kid had a brain fart on that QB keeper. He should have been thinking yards and hung in the pocket. Good field position for a Seattle offense that's been sleeping.

[Jedieb]

Please, no ties. There's nothing lamer in the NFL than ties.

[Jedieb]

That's the THIRD big run by a RB in overtime we've seen this week. Dayne, LT, and now Barber. Defenses just get worn down at this point. Man, that was a nice run. They're in FG range again, but they still need another first down. It's 48 yards from here.... now around 44.... No fumble, the dreaded whistle ends the play.

[Jedieb]

Another Feely FG attempt. He can't miss again, can he?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Is this game ever going to end, short again.

[Jedieb]

Holy crap, my sister could kick farther than that! How do you come up short on a 45 yarder?!!!! WTF?!

[Jedieb]

Wow, that grounding call is brutal. That's loss of down and yardage. Yikes. It takes Alexander out of the game too. Wow, big completion for 36 yards. The Seahawks live.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL Jedieb, I am hoping Alexander just gets in the end zone just to finish this FG drama.

[Jedieb]

That move by Alexander is probably the game. Great run, he probably won a few MVP votes with that run right there.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Lets see if Brown can end this.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Finally game over.

[Jedieb]

Another FG attempt, man this is just going to be a brutal loss for the Giants.... It's good, BARELY. Feely better take another flight back to NY.

[Jedieb]

And tonight, THE SAINTS V. THE JETS!!!!!!!!!
:zzz

[Jedieb]

No wonder Michael Irving has been defending TO all season. He's been STONED!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2238758

What a putz, I wonder if he'll lose his job at ESPN. I bet this loses him a few HOF votes this year.

[Jedi Master Carr]

What a putz, he very well could lose his job over this. And yeah I have no interest in tonights game. I think watching paint dry could be more exciting than watching those two teams play.

[Ryan Pode]

On the Bengals/Ravens game:

The defense: Ravens lost Will Demps (Torn ACL) early on, leaving a rookie, a guy on its practice squad this past week, Dale Carter, and Chad Williams (who is better against the run), as its safeties. And when Dale Carter covers Chad Johnson bad things happen. That, coupled with the offenses inability to score points had the defense quit. However...

The offense: Kyle Boller--when given more than 3 seconds can throw as shown by the sit-back-in-pass-coverage bengals defense showed. Thus, the Ravens need a new offensive line. Once the Ravens began to score points, the defense forced turnovers and got the ball back. It was exciting.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Leftwich broke his ankle in the Arizona game. That hurts them a lot especially with Taylor out. The question is will they still make the playoffs. They have a soft schedule
at Cleveland
Indy
S.F
at Houston
Tenn
Indy will kill them without Leftwich, heck Cleveland can beat them, IMO. The other three I don't know. Only Tenn looks like a team that could play hard. Houston blew today's game against the Rams, I have my doubts they will win a game the rest of the year.

[Ryan Pode]

The Titans will play the Jags hard. As will the Texans. Texans almost beat them once and they did blank 'em 21-0 last year.

[Jedieb]

That's just devastating for the Jags. They're pretty much WC round fodder now. On paper, that also makes Indy's undefeated chase a bit easier. That game is going to be in Jacksonville in a couple of weeks. With Leftwich and that defense they had a good shot at beating the Colts, but the Colts will probably be double digit favorites with a back QB.

The Chiefs and Chargers must be thinking they've been sent an early X-Mas present. This gives both of them that much better of a chance to grab a WC spot.

[Rutabaga]

Originally posted by Jedieb
No wonder Michael Irving has been defending TO all season. He's been STONED!
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2238758

What a putz, I wonder if he'll lose his job at ESPN. I bet this loses him a few HOF votes this year.

Oh, good Lord, this just proves the old adage about leopards not being able to change their spots :p. Michael Irvin is one of the prime reasons why I've hated the Cowboys for years. (Jerry Jones is another reason why I hate them, but that's a whole other story :cool.)

Poor, poor TO, his one main defender gets arrested on drug charges. How much worse for him can it get? :angel

Oh, and speaking of Jerry Jones, I'm sure y'all heard about this one:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=AhJJ7Qj2s7felFQYS.Hz2jNDubYF?slug=ap-owens-cowboystampering&prov=ap&type=lgns

:rolleyes

[Jedieb]

That tampering complaint is pretty weak though. Unless the Eagles have some proof that Jones actually contacted Owens or Rosensnake then they've got no legitimate beef. All Jones did was say he'd be interested in Owens or a player like him. Nothing is going to come of this. In fact, it's kind of stupid of Jones to say something like that. Not because he might get in trouble with the league, but because it gives Rosensnake some bargainning power. Now he knows for sure that Jones wants him and he can use that once the Eagles release him in the offseason. I thought for sure Owens would go to Denver next year but it looks like the Cowboys are in play. Damn, that's just going to make me sick. Watching him celebrate TD's on the star in a uniform I grew up cheering for. Ughh. I think I'm going to puke.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Jedieb
That's just devastating for the Jags. They're pretty much WC round fodder now. On paper, that also makes Indy's undefeated chase a bit easier. That game is going to be in Jacksonville in a couple of weeks. With Leftwich and that defense they had a good shot at beating the Colts, but the Colts will probably be double digit favorites with a back QB.

The Chiefs and Chargers must be thinking they've been sent an early X-Mas present. This gives both of them that much better of a chance to grab a WC spot.

Well could be two spots up for grabs now, I think the Steelers are going south and won't make the playoffs. So who knows both the Chargers and Chiefs could make the playoffs.

[Ryan Pode]

I think the AFC:

Indy
Denver
Cincy
Pats
Pit
KC or San Diego

Pittsburgh and San Diego will end with the same record with Pit getting the tie-breaker. Jags are done as is anything else.

NFC:

Seattle
Bears
Carolina
Dallas
Giants
Atlanta

[Jedi Master Carr]

Pittsburgh could lose three straight, they have indy, Cinc, Chicago. All three games could be loses, if that happens they don't get in.

[Yog]

Wow, Dolphins won against the Raiders. How to figure out this team? Last week they got shut out. This week they actually had a game.

Oh, and Baltimore with that score drive against the Bengals. What the heck.

[Ryan Pode]

Cincy stopped blitzing --> K. Boller had more than 3 seconds to pass --> K. Boller showed touch and other QB-like skills and scored.

Oh and I crap out points in fantasy football yet again.

[JMK]

11-4 so far. The Redskins and Bucs screwed me. Losing the Oakland game doesn't bother me one bit! :)

What a great weekend for football, all the things that make sports great. Comebacks, collapses, great plays, choke jobs....and CRACK PIPES! Way to go Irvin! As long as there was no crack with the pipe then he will probably get away with it, but is there a person on earth who truly believes that the pipe 'belongs to his friend and he just wanted it out of his house.'? Not a chance. He should lose his job over this but the word is he will be on countdown tonight. Unbelievable.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The Lions have fired Marucci. I am guessing Matt Millen will get fired next. He deserves it at least, since he has been GM there they have a losing record and their teams have been awful. He is the worst GM in the NFL, IMO.

[Jedieb]

Matt Millen should have been fired a long time ago. I feel bad for Mooch. I think they should have given him at least another year, but that's not how today's NFL works.

Irving says he's been trying to help a friend battle addiction. Translation= Someone from the Irving posses is going to take one for their man!

Drug paraphenelia (sp?) is a misdemeanor. The lack of any cocaine or any other drug makes a huge difference. I'm just wondering what he's going to have to say about it this afternoon on Countdown and the Dan Patrick show.

Should be a great game tonight. No one should be surprised if the Steelers win tonight. They're built to beat a team like the Colts. But they need Big Ben. There's a reason that the Steelers can throw less than 20 times when he plays (9-14 against the Bengals), but close to 40 when Maddox (19-36 in his last start) or Batch starts. The guy makes plays and throws for a high percentage. He puts the Steelers in a position where they can keep pounding the ball. If the Steelers play their best game of the season and catch Indy on an off night then they can pull off the upset. Plus, it's Monday night and Cowher loves playing on Monday Night. I don't think he's ever lost on MNF.

I should have results posted tomorrow. If the game is a blowout I may have them up right after the game. Week 13 should be up on Tuesday night. I'll also post my picks pretty early to give you losers a chance to pick a few games off. :smokin

[JMK]

Michael Irvin is on the DP show right now. This should be interesting. I'd like to give him the benefit of the doubt but I can't see how this is on anyone other than Mike. He screwed up BIG TIME.

I feel bad for Mariucci too. I don't believe any of this is his fault. Check Millen's record - it's abyssmal.

[Jedieb]

I heard Irving on the DP show and I thought he sounded pretty contrite. He gave a believable version of what could have happened. It'd be pretty easy to check on whether or not he's paid to have somebody put through a Houston rehab center, so if that's a lie, it's a stupid one. He never denies he had his own drug problems and it does look like he's trying to help friends and family deal with their drug problems. Even after all these years it seems that drugs are a part of his life, even if he's not using them. Friends and family are and if you believe him, he's trying to help them deal with it.

[JMK]

He did sound very sincere. But like Dan said, addicts are the BEST liars on the planet. I'm still skeptical. I don't understand why he would take a chance like this. If helping people is his #1 priority now, why would he have forgotten the thing underneath his seat, you know what I mean?

[Jedieb]

I know, but he does seem like the kind of guy who would be loyal to friends and family to a fault. We'll see. I still DON'T expect him to submit to a drug test. If it's not in his contract, and I don't think it is, ESPN can't force him to take one. It's one thing to say, "Take the test, if you're innocent." But I can understand why someone would refuse to take one as well. I wonder how much he'll talk about it on tonight's Countdown.

[Jedieb]

WOW.........
A 3 and out, and then a Manning bomb to Harrison for an 80yd TD. As good as that is, it does put the Steelers offense right back onto the field. I just wonder if this is what Indy is going to keep doing. Scoring quick and getting that defense back onto the field. Well, we'll see how the Steelers respond to that punch in the face.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I know, but he does seem like the kind of guy who would be loyal to friends and family to a fault. We'll see. I still DON'T expect him to submit to a drug test. If it's not in his contract, and I don't think it is, ESPN can't force him to take one. It's one thing to say, "Take the test, if you're innocent." But I can understand why someone would refuse to take one as well. I wonder how much he'll talk about it on tonight's Countdown.

I once heard DP say that all ESPN employees have to take and pass drug tests upon hiring. I don't know if they continue through their careers there, but I imagine they could depending on your role there.

This game is pretty much in the books. The Colts are in complete control and while Big Ben looked like he was getting back in to it, the whole team is just out of sync.

[Jedieb]

I once heard DP say that all ESPN employees have to take and pass drug tests upon hiring. I don't know if they continue through their careers there, but I imagine they could depending on your role there.
Irving, like most of there analysts, is a contracted employee so I'm sure his deal is different than the desk guys. So I don't think a drug test is in his contract.

So, how's that Indy defense looking now? That first half was pretty impressive. They started out with three 3-and-outs, and held the Steelers to less than 80 yards of offense. If not for the INT and the return, the game could have turned into a rout. It's getting close to garbage time so the Steelers should pile up some yards and get at least one score, but I think tonight shows that Indy's D can turn it up when it has to. It's not the Bears, but it's a top ten defense. And that's what that offense has been waiting for.

[Jedieb]

Week 12 Results

sirdizzy: 12-4
Jedieb: 12-4
JMK: 12-4
Jinn Fizz: 14-2 (The only person to pick the Fins. Congrats Jinn!)
Ryan Pode: 10-6
Jedi Master Carr: 12-4
Nathanial K'cansce: 13-3
Lilaena De'Ville: 8-8
jjwr: 12-4
Yoghurt: 13-3


Updated Season Totals

Jedieb: 124-52
Yoghurt: 119-57
jjwr: 116-60
Jedi Master Carr: 115-61
Lilaena De'Ville: 112-64
sirdizzy: 111-65
JMK: 109-67
Ryan Pode: 105-71
Nathanial K'cansce: 107-69

Lance Casey: 103-57
Figrin D'an: 101-59
Jinn Fizz: 97-63
Blade Ice: 70-44
Eldorack: 36-20
Kale: 23-23
Ambrose Braeden: 10-6
Lamar Starworth: 5-11

Please check your results. If you find any mistakes send me a PM or make a quick post and skewer me.

[Arya Ravenwing]

(LD)
ack I only went 50%!!

That's what I get for not doing my picks at the last minute. ;)

[Ryan Pode]

Of course, when a non-Ravens team limits someones dominant rushing attack they blame it on their QB rusty. Naturally.

[jjwr]

Steelers rushing game hasn't been up to the par the past few weeks so its not just Indy, Ben being rusty doesn't help. If they were playing a Steelers team with Big Ben back for a week or two I think we would have seen a different result.

As for the Colts, I heard a stat last night that was impressive, since his Rookie Year Manning has never missed a game. I quite like the guy and his commercials are a riot but I just want them to go undefeated. Maybe its the recent tussles with the Pats or how easy Manning has gotten it in his career.

[Rutabaga]

Originally posted by Jedieb

Week 12 Results
Jinn Fizz: 14-2 (The only person to pick the Fins. Congrats Jinn!)


Holy crap, I hadn't realized I'd done so well!!! :eek

I hate the Dolphins, but I hate the Raiders even more. So that's why I picked the Dolphins for Sunday's game :).

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Yes, I'm making a late season surge!! You're next, JMK. >D

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
Of course, when a non-Ravens team limits someones dominant rushing attack they blame it on their QB rusty. Naturally.

Ben was rusty, but Indy was just that good. They had 6 3-and-outs last night. And I saw some impressive open field tackles that killed drives. Last night their defense played with the same kind of intensity they had at the beginning of the season. Dungy is getting closer and closer to the kind of defense he and Monte Kiffin built in Tampa. Fast, strong, athletic players that can make big plays. Yes, you can wear them out and their no huddle, quick strike offense can be a burden at times, but we've seen that they're a legit top 10 defense and that's more than enough to win a Superbowl.

Remember that brutal stretch the Pats started the season with? Well, in the last 4 weeks, the Colts have beaten Cincy, Pittsburgh, and new England. Those are 3 playoff teams in less than a month and 2 of them were road wins. They've got Seattle, Jacksonville, and San Diego coming up. Each of those teams are either in the playoffs right now or in contention. That's a brutal stretch and if they do somehow end up undefeated it won't have been simply the result of a soft schedule. Not to slam the 72 Fins, a team I love, but I think only 2 of their regular season opponents had winning records.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Seattle is Don Shula's last hope.

[Jedieb]

Over the last couple of weeks I've read and heard some shots at the 72 Dolphins. People calling them bitter old men and hip deep in a Schadenfreud pool. That's a bunch of crap. Why shouldn't they be proud of their undefeated season? They did something no other team in the history of the league has ever been able to do. So what if they get together every year and pop the cork when the last undefeated team goes down? They EARNED that yearly party. It's nothing more than a bunch of old farts getting together for their yearly reunion and having a good time. I remember when they got together at the Orange Bowl for that 85 showdown with the Bears. That was a great sight and it made the game that much bigger. I wouldn't mind one bit if the Colts go 15-0 and some of those 72 Dolphins show up for that last game. I bet Shula and the boys will walk right over and shake the Colts hands if they pull off the undefeated season. Shula's already said he thinks the Colts can pull it off.

Stop the Fin bashing!!!

[JMK]

People need to get a grip already. Find another story to cover. Big deal if they get together. Until someone else goes undefeated they'll keep doing it. It's just a testament to the unheard of feat they accomplished.

[Ryan Pode]

I'd like to see the Colts go 16-0, then get blown out in the playoffs.

On a more exciting note, I have club seats on the 35 for the Texans v. Ravens game.

[JMK]

I'd find a reason to be happy either way. If they went 18-0 and got blown out in the playoffs, the media crush after would be just outstanding. And if they win it all then it would be a nice story.

[Jedieb]

During Week 8 a mistake was made with Yog's score. He was only credited with 9 wins, instead of 10. I've corrected the Devil's score so now he only trails me by 5 games. Not that it'll do him any good. His Reign of Evil is OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :crack

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think San Diego and Seattle can both beat Indy.

[Jedieb]

And so can Jacksonville. Going undefeated isn't going to be easy. They'll be favored in every game from here on out, but each of those 3 teams are capable of beating them. If they pull this off it's going to be one of the most impressive seasons the NFL has ever seen. If they take that streak into the playoffs then the question is; "Are they the Yankees, or the Mariners?"

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the Seattle spread will be the cloest. I bet Indy is favored by the most 3 points, but could be favored by as little as 1.

[sirdizzy]

I will never ever ever ever ever stop the fin bashing because of some of the ignorant jackass remarks made when Denver went 13-0 in 1998.

Several fins players commented they hoped some Denver players would get hurt so they could keep their footnote in nfl history, how classless is that. Then I believe it was Bob Griese who backtracked saying that they only wished they would get a bad case of food poisoning or something not that they would get seriously phsycially injured. And this is the guy who's son Brian was playing for Denver at the time.

The phins are classless, &%^((^^*(.

So as a Broncos fan and as a football fan I will bash them all I freaking want.

[Jedieb]

"Lighten up Francis."

Most of those players are known for being standup guys. Don't get bitter just 'cuz you lost that 14th game to Kent Graham and the Giants. ;)

[JMK]

Seriously, he didn't wish YOU harm.

Talk about homerism! :lol