Resurrected idea....

[Vek]

In the spirit of your revised program to encorage higher RP activity and a wider opertunity of variations in RPing, I thought I would drop this idea on you.

I found this deep in the arcives of my dusty ol' desktop; apparently, back in the day when I was Jandor in the GJO, I suggested this idea for the same reason (to encorage activity).

Quite simply, it's a study scheme. Sort of like "extra-curricular" activities, these sub-classes are not true classes with Knights leading them but rather a study group of acolyte/trainees whatever. They are semi-formal, that is they are pre-scheduled but in a casual manner so if people don't show up it's no big deal.

These groups are assigned naturally by the acolytes themsleves. They will wish to balance out the groups but more importantly they will seek out like-minded acolytes and build up their intra-personal relationships. These groups are open to transfers, hopefuly over time the groups will settle down into comfortable social units which could eventualy lead to become effective operation units when they are of higher levels (much like trainning with your regiment before a war).
Just to give a rough estimate, such groups would be no larger then maybe 4 (we want to keep things on a personal scale, don't want things to be lost in the impersonal flood of a large group).

It's the light harmless stuff that all acolytes have to do on the perfieries of their trainning; levitating rocks, running up trees, reading/studying texts, whatever really.
This is only meant to supplement normal trainning with a master.

The idea is quite simple, it allows us acolytes to continue RPing and trainning when Knights are unavailable for whatever reason. Knights are around to teach us the core skills but it would make more sence if we where to study them with additional extra lessons in between true master-lead lessons.

This way, it's sort of like study groups in high school; or if you prefer, the masters become like colledge profesors/tutors who lay down the knowledge and understanding and acolytes can muddle through the bulk in their own time.


Furthermore, Knights might announce that they wish to test a particular group (to poke them around just to see what they're capable of) an so send them of on a designated task (the knights can then observe or not as they wish, but the principle of non-interference from knights/masters is maintained). These tasks are just short of missions, they are not large and long but small and almost menial but still independant. An example would be to send out a group (say a 3-4 man group) to locate and retreive something that TSO has bought and is waiting to be retrieved OR maybe even the assasination of someone (someone small and pathetic, not worth sending out knights over).
It's sort of a smaller scale "field trip" option then regular trainning missions.


At an OOC perspective, at the very least this opens up far more possibilities. It allows acolytes to RP IC with their fellow trainnes without a Knight around; like any group of students, they can act more opennly alone and so create new RP opertunities.
It allows the characters to build up working relationships with their peers, frienships and bonds beyond the ones of just wandering the grounds of the Citadel.

Also, it allows for a generic opertunity to increase activity as acolytes don't have to rely on a Knight being around to do something constructive (besides just chatting or wandering the halls of the Citadel which seams to be the only other thing to do :rolleyes ).


But of course this is just a suggestive thought, if you don't think it's a good idea then that's fine, no harm done.

[Dakler Terrcin]

Sounds good to me. If it dosen't work, then people just won't do it anyways. I see no reason, however, why the groups would be set in stone. It would be nice to have some easy training missions that were actually missions (not "levitate the stone") that a group of any 3-4 acolytes could take. Perhaps knights could post ideas (or we could develop them ourselves) and people could just take them as the felt like it.

It would give us good opportunites to develop our characters (find out what everyone's M.O. is). And it would give us something to do other than wander the Citadel (which isn't bad, but then again, really isn't so great either) and levitate rocks (which can be REALLY boring)

anyways, I think it sounds great. Let's hear what some knights have to say.

[Jorshal Vuntana]

I encourage that acolytes get together and 'study' whether in groups or in pairs. It's happened in the past many times. Sometimes, if one has the time, even a single post thread detailing training or conditioning. Remember, one moves up the ranks by developing the character either through much writing or little high quality writing.

However.

Neither the knights nor masters can endorse officially or superficially any group in the slightest way. That's how rivalry's form, that how TSO splinters and these boards die.

About two to three years ago the Sith Order fractured when a group called the Krath broke away. TSO lost about 5 people and in my opinion both the Krath and tso suffered greatly. Factions can not exist for the sake of these boards.

Ideally you could move the knights around between groups to avoid loyalties, similar to how the U.S. military works. But that's so much work on the part of the Elders to constantly organize such an operation.

BUT, how about some other opinions...

[Zereth Lancer]

Well, to me it sounds like a great idea.
But I'd like to throw my own idea into the mix. Instead grouping the acolytes with other acolytes similar in skill level and ability, place them randomly together. This way they will have to learn each other's weaknesses and powers and play off them to survive what ever mission they are sent on. This way they'll learn to take care of each other, watch each other's backs, and that sort of thing. I might also suggest electing a team leader of the four and take a more "squad" like atmosphere to it.
I hope I'm making sense with what I'm saying here.
And, yeah. I completely agree with you Jorshal.

[Saveeradeevaravaravee]

Zereth, I really like that addition to the idea. It would really help the unity of the Order - people get placed randomly in groups and are forced to use what they have, not what they have learned to depend on. It would make the characters much stronger individuals, but also much stronger teammates. And choosing a random squad leader will also give every character leadership experience - from an elder's standpoint, it would help them to choose who would be best in a position of leadership for each type of mission, and would make selection of teams for more important missions much more efficient. I'm personally all for it, I'd like to see it happen!

[Naira Cross]

I don’t know if my opinion counts or not but I also agree. Being place in situation in which the groups are placed randomly will expose how each one reacts to different individuals, and like Zereth said act more like a team or squad.

[Jorshal Vuntana]

Well we are doing something like the idea in the current training threads, except we let the knights make a choice over who they wanted to partner with (partners because at the time there were only about 6 of us). I was intending to expand that from duos to trios or more since there's so many more of us now.

I would like to keep the training more of a one on one thing though, it keeps the training thread a little more streamlined and easier to keep up with for both. Again, it keeps factions from forming especially with the alternation of masters.

Vek and everyone else, if you get a chance check out a few of the set up threads for the training mission (Mission report and group mission one summery) and take a look at how that's set up. I'm open to applying squads to threads or missions off of the TSO boards, as opposed to the current duos.

[Vek]

Well I only wanted to ge tthe ball rolling so whatever desicions TSO settles on overall I'll be happy with.

The only personal issue I have against random alotments is that out of chance some groups might end up better then others. Keeping groups flexible in the beginning means that a balance can be achived, balancing personalitites is just as important as balancing tactical ability.

Also, giving everyone a turn at team leader might not be so great; I for one know that I suck at leadership (at least with Sith anyway) and know that I would fail miserably, not everyone can or even wants the responisbility ofsquad leadership.

I think it should be optional, everyone is encouraged to try but it's not a requirement and Knights+ will encorage the better squad leaders down the leadership path.

Another point worth considering is that do we really want all teams to be completely balanced?
I mean, wouldn't it be handy to, say, have the more combat-oriented teams take point positions and support taking flanking/rear positions.
All-round teams sounds good in theory but when the battles break out the teams are often sent on different kinds of tasks rather then all doing everything.

To me, all-round teams sound like the thinking of a defensive/diplomatic Jedi rathet then the power/tactical mind of a Sith who would designate teams for power rather then comprimise.

That said, I certainly see you view points as well and in my opinion, some kind of comprimise between random selection and controled-settling would be the best option to allow for teams which are varied but also practical.

And I agree about the rotation of Knights, that was actually my origonal intention however unclearly I stated it. The groups maintain a constant but the Knights rotate, that way acolytes can learn each others abilities better rather then relying on the Knight to much (also it discirages rivalry between groups).

I do think a little competition between groups is healthy (we are Sith after all) but obviously it needs to be kept reasonable; rivalry needs to be sporting and friendly, we don't want splinter cells breaking away.

[Saveeradeevaravaravee]

Well, the random allottment would be for training only, not for missions of any importance - in that way, the knights learn who works well together and who does not. The same goes for leadership, it's just to learn who can and can't.

[Tarsis]

Interesting idea, but why? Things are fine the way they are. "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Is how the saying goes if I'm not mistaken. Lol, jk

But yeah, by no means am I saying that I don't like the idea. On the contrary, I like it a lot , especially Zereth’s little addition. My character would benefit greatly from this, seeing how he hopes to one day be a high ranking officer in the Order and/or an Elder.

My personal opinion, I say we go back to the way things were: Master and Apprentice. I understand why Jorshal has set things up the way they are now, I get that, so don't make it a point if you're to reply to this post. I'm just saying now that the TSO is gaining more members, it might be time to up the number of Knights as well and them help out, namely the ones who have been here for awhile and have had their fair share of interactions.

Maybe it's just me, maybe I'm just an old fashion kind of guy, but if it were up to me, I'd take us back to the old ways. The ways that once ruled the TSO and the GJO alike and the way it always has been in the SW universe: Master and Apprentice
.

[Vek]

Well, I definetley don't agree with that. The old ways only work for the canon films and stories, for practical RPing the 1-on-1 is just not viable.

I have seen many SW RP boards attempt pure old school 1-on-1 and everytime it has failed for the same reason of stagnation and splintering.
I'm not saying it's inevitable, I'm jsut saying that in my opinion, if we go back to the old ways, the same old problems will come around again and we'll be stuck back where we started before the reset.

But that's just my thoughts.

[Dasquian Belargic]

Originally posted by Vek
I have seen many SW RP boards attempt pure old school 1-on-1 and everytime it has failed for the same reason of stagnation and splintering.
I'm not saying it's inevitable, I'm jsut saying that in my opinion, if we go back to the old ways, the same old problems will come around again and we'll be stuck back where we started before the reset.

1 on 1 training worked at SWfans for 5 years. It has worked successfully at the communities that have splintered away from SWFans: The Gungal Council, The Rebel Faction, SWRRPG.

Organizing group tasks and missions takes just as much time and effort as doing individual training threads. It's six and two threes really. You're always going to be relying on the activity of the Knights, regardless of what method you propose. Trying to quick-fix and fast-promote by trying to hurriedly train everyone all at once has never been, in my experience, very successful.

[Vek]

Well alright, if you think that's best.

Just like to say though, I never meant any intention to fast promote, the same time and effort would be the same, I only meant to expand the opertunity to RP out relationships and general writing experience, I had no intention of making them credible extra lessons.

But okay, whatever, I did only make this as a suggestion and if it's not liked then don't use it, no problem. :D

[Naira Cross]

Why not do both so it will benefit every ones intentions?

[Zereth Lancer]

The main reason 1-on-1 doesn't work for us is that fact that there are only four active knights in the order; Jorshal, Baralai, Zereth, and Yurza. And jumping anyone up to knight would be, from my personal experience, disasterous. I think a mix of the two ideas (Like Naira said), the group training and 1-on-1, would work best. Some Apprentices may wish to train under a knight and some may rather participate in a group, or some may even choose to do both (Which I would encourage)

[Vek]

Which was my origonal intention. I did say that it was comparible to an extra-curricular scheme; that is, we still have our lessons with knights, the groups are just extra like study groups.

[Tarsis]

Originally posted by Zereth Lancer
The main reason 1-on-1 doesn't work for us is that fact that there are only four active knights in the order; Jorshal, Baralai, Zereth, and Yurza. And jumping anyone up to knight would be, from my personal experience, disastrous. I think a mix of the two ideas (Like Naira said), the group training and 1-on-1, would work best. Some Apprentices may wish to train under a knight and some may rather participate in a group, or some may even choose to do both (Which I would encourage)

Lol, I wasn’t suggesting that we, the Acolytes be bumped up if that's what anyone is thinking, I was just stating my opinion on the matter. I'm sorry if that's the impression it gave.

I like Naira's idea as well, mixing the two would be both beneficial and fun. All in all, I think we should at least give it a try. Let it pan out for a bit and if it doesn’t work, then we just go back to the way things were.

[Vek]

Indeed, there's no harm in a trial period now is there? :D

[Jorshal Vuntana]

Well right now the new system of different masters is in its trial period, we can only do so much at once.

[Djinn S'jet]

Fair enough. ;)

[Tarsis]

Originally posted by Jorshal Vuntana
Well right now the new system of different masters is in its trial period, we can only do so much at once.

Agreed >_<