MLB Playoffs - 05/06 offseason

[JMK]

I can't believe how everything is going the White Sox way right now. They have been the beneficiary of every single tight call, and even some blown calls from the umps that helped them. Then like a true team of destiny, they take advantage of any opportunity they're given. Podsednik goes deep off Lidge? Are you kidding me? That's worse than Bucky freaking Dent. They're going to be all but unstoppable now. I think Houston wins game 3 with Oswalt on the mound, but that's it. Clemens is all but done for the year, Pettitte just went yesterday and their other starters won't be able to keep up.

[CMJ]

I was one of the first to call Chicago as a threat to win it all. So this is sorta gratifying in a way.

[jjwr]

They looked incredible early but you have to admit about a month ago this looked like a incredibly shaky team but are 17-3 in their last 20 games.

I agree with JMK the Astro's should take game 3 but after that I think its all over. The Series may got 6 games but I just can't see the Astro's overcoming what the White Sox have going on right now.

As for Konerko, not sure about you guys but I would love to see him in a different Sox uniform next year ;)

[Jedieb]

My son and I were at a ball field the other day just throwing the old horsehide back and forth. Some guy shows up with a glove and a bag of balls and starts throwing from the pitchers mound. Eventually he asks me if I'd like to take a few cuts. I figure, "What the hell." So I step up to the plate and I send his first pitch about 320 ft and over the left field fence. I haven't ripped a ball like that since I was in my early 20's so I'm stunned. My son starts jumping up and down and screaming like a maniac. He looks up at me and says, "Dad, can I take a swing?" I say, "No buddy, I don't want you to get hurt." The guy on the mound says, "Don't worry about it, it's okay." My son steps up to the plate and sends the first offering to deep center! The ball must have gone at least 410 ft. The boy is only 7 and barely over 4 ft tall. I can't believe what I'm seeing. The guy on the pitchers mound stuffs his glove and the remaining baseballs back into his bag and walks off the field. As he's leaving I introduce myself and my son. He says, "Hi, my name is Brad Lidge." He then drops his head and slowly trudges off the field.
True Story!

[JMK]

I was going to have to ask both of you to pee in a cup until you mentioned the guy's name. :lol

[jjwr]

LOL...thats just not right!

[Jedieb]

Don't get mad at me, he threw my son a slider! Everyone knows you throw a 7 year old high heat!

[JMK]

High heat? To a 7 year old? No way! Maybe to a 5 year old. I'd stick a heater in a 7-year old's ear and then see how he likes me in his next at bat.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL Jedieb that was great.

[jjwr]

Wow, suprised there aren't any more replies.

Went to bed in the 8th and it looked like the Sox were gonna take it and when I got up this morning I found out it turned out to be the longest World Series game ever, impressive!

[JMK]

I didn't even watch the game. I lost interest in this series basically. I still follow it, but frankly I've been more entranced with this new NHL. Every game is now a great game. Best hockey I've seen in over 15 years.

Anyway, this WS is over. No rally will save this Astros team. They had to have game 3, they had a 4-0 lead and Oswalt blew it away. It's done, stick a fork in it. Besides, the umping has been SO bad in these playoffs, it's hard to watch. Plus, what the hell is MLB doing meddling in things like having the roof open or not? Give me a break with this 'We want the blimp shot' B.S.
There has to be another reason for MLB wanting the roof open so badly. It CANNOT come down to wanting a friggin photograph. Basically, it's not the teams that have driven me away from this series, it's MLB & umpires bungling things up again.

[CMJ]

That was a helluva game last night, but I went to bed right after it was over. I think this has been a really fun WS to watch. I mean Chicago has won all three, but they've been terrific games - especially two and three.

I think Houston will scratch out one victory, but the White Sox have it by the throat now.

[JMK]

I wonder if they're going to just fold tonight. Up 4-0 and still lose at home with your ace out there? That's got to be as devastating as a walk off blast.

Saw this on sportscenter:
The odds of the Red & White Sox winning the world series of 1917 & 1918, not winning at all in between, and then winning again in consecutive years in 2004 & 2005 was 18.1 MILLION to ONE. That's beyond comprehension.

[Jedieb]

I went to bed after the 9th. Great game, but without one of my horses in the race I can't justify staying up 'till 2. I barely made it through regulation. Ozwalt was their hottest pitcher and he blew a 4 run lead, in one inning no less. That's it, it's over. I don't even know if the Astros will be able to salvage 1 game. And how stupid is MLB to tell Houston that it can't close its roof? I swear, only baseball seems capable of screwing up something that obvious.

[JMK]

Listen Eb, stop bellyaching alright. Selig wanted a blimp shot, so he deserves it. He's the boss, he's bigger than the game and that blimp shot is paramount to the future success of the league. Can't you see that? The fact that the Astros were at home and have their own ways of deriving an advantage is irrelevant. Selig wanted his precious aerial shot, so goddamit he's gonna get it.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Butt Selig?

All that aside whether the roof is open or not shouldn't matter, and this is a much bigger deal than it really should be, but MLB really has to know when to step back. They've got massive perception issues and here they are concerning themselves with an open/closed roof and milk ads. So typical of this bungling bunch.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by JMK
Listen Eb, stop bellyaching alright. Selig wanted a blimp shot, so he deserves it. He's the boss, he's bigger than the game and that blimp shot is paramount to the future success of the league. Can't you see that? The fact that the Astros were at home and have their own ways of deriving an advantage is irrelevant. Selig wanted his precious aerial shot, so goddamit he's gonna get it.

Have I ever mentioned that I hate Butt Selig?

All that aside whether the roof is open or not shouldn't matter, and this is a much bigger deal than it really should be, but MLB really has to know when to step back. They've got massive perception issues and here they are concerning themselves with an open/closed roof and milk ads. So typical of this bungling bunch.

You said butt, heh, heh...
JMK, my choice for the next commisioner of MLB!

[Mu Satach]

felt bad for the astro fans...

but enjoyed staying up late for that game. :)

heh... and my sister say's baseball is boring.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I went to bed in the 12th I just couldn't stay up watching it. If it was Boston it be different. About the roof, well MLB said they did in 2001 to the Diamonbacks. I guess they determined they didn't want the crowd noise to deterimine the game. And the Astros are done, I bet they lose tonight.

[Jedi Master Carr]

White Sox won 88 years another streak down.

[Darth McBain]

DIdn't watch much of the series at all, but congrats to the White Sox. I was hoping they'd take down the Astros...

[CMJ]

Congrats to the Southside and all their dislocated brethren. I know how sweet this must feel.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Consider how it felt for us Red Sox fans last year I know how they feel.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Consider how it felt for us Red Sox fans last year I know how they feel.

That's sort of what I was getting at.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So After the Cubs who has the longest streak? Indians then Giants?

[Jedieb]

Yeah, Cubs, Giants, then Indians and I believe there are 8 teams who've never won a WS. And who gave up the winning run in the 8th last night? My son's favorite batting practice pitcher!

[JMK]

Poor Lidge. The guy only gave up one freakin run. It's hard to win when your team scores zero runs. The Sox pitching was phenomenal throughout, but last night Astros folded. They were downright miserable last night. Awful, awful at bats. No execution and Ensberg had some of the worst at bats of ALL TIME. It's easy to pick them apart because they were so clearly disheartened but they had no interest in being there for game 4. The only guy who came to play was Backe seemingly.

Anyway, big props to the Sox. 11-1 in the post season matches the 99 Yankees. That's remarkable.

2 streaks come to an end in consecutive years and the 18.1 million to one odds pay off. How messed up is that? If the Cubs, Indians or Giants win next year I'll call for a conspiracy! :lol

[CMJ]

It's amazing enough already. If any of those 3 teams win next year it would seemingly be a miracle.

[Jedieb]

If you take a look at how the White Sox ended their season it's one of the more impressive post season runs ever. I even go back to their last series on the road against the Indians. The White Sox faced Cleveland, Boston, the Angles, and then Houston and went 18-1. (Or 17-1, I'm old and I don't really care.) That's pretty damn impressive. I apologize for ever calling them chokers.

[sirdizzy]

I never thought baseball was rigged tell game three of the world series this year. If the ball was right down the middle of the plate the astro hitters would look at it like they thought if they swung at it they would get a deadly desease. But if the ball was low and away or high and inside they were swinging every damn time.

Two streaks 2 years and players who only swing at garbage pitches is too much for me.


I am putting $50 on the cubbies to win it all next time I am in vegas, waning baseball fans got to do something to get em back, hey lets end some huge streaks. Fixed, rigged and ultimatly sad.

[JMK]

I would never buy that kind of theory, but there's always a small part of me that says 18.1 million to one odds should never come true, MLB would love for the world to talk about these amazing winless streaks coming to and end and magically forgetting about steroids, and thirdly, Selig is running the show. The man has zero integrity. In fact I don't even think he knows how to spell it.
I wouldn't be shocked if this were ever revealed to be true, but I don't believe it to be true by any stretch.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I doubt it, if they were going to break a streak the Cubs would be the one they want. Both were just bound to happen it just so happened to happened back to back, I bet a team without a streak or a team who hasn't won at least wins next year.

[sirdizzy]

its not just the fact that 2 differnet streaks ended its also what I saw the astros batters doing in game 3. I kid you not if the chisox pitchers through a perfect pitch to be hit right down the middle of the plate every single astro would absoultly refuse to even swing at the damn thing. But if the batter practically had to step over the plate and chase a pitch 8 feet he was swinging at it every time.

[CMJ]

Whatever.

:rolleyes

[JMK]

Originally posted by sirdizzy
its not just the fact that 2 differnet streaks ended its also what I saw the astros batters doing in game 3. I kid you not if the chisox pitchers through a perfect pitch to be hit right down the middle of the plate every single astro would absoultly refuse to even swing at the damn thing. But if the batter practically had to step over the plate and chase a pitch 8 feet he was swinging at it every time.

Not every Astros jersey said Ensberg on the back. ;)

Besides, they got there by great pitching. When that faultered, the rest of the team went down with it. The Astros aren't a good offensive team to begin with, and it showed in the WS. Sum it up this way: Mike Lamb was batting 5th. Who the hell is Mike Lamb?

[Jedieb]

The Astros didn't score a single run for the last 15 innings of the WS. The sad part is, that was typical of their regular season. They had MULTIPLE streaks of double digit innings without a run druing the season. What hurt them in the regular season did them in at the end. And I don't think dizzy was really being serious about the conspiracy stuff. If he was, then he's got to put the pipe down.

[JMK]

They were 0-30 with runner in scoring position. I don't care how good the pitching is, a National League champ should never sink that low. That's not a slump. That's a collapse. A choke. A meltdown, call it what you want, but there's no way that stat is fitting of a league champion. Yet somehow the Sox only outscored the Astros by 6 runs throughout the series. Too weird for words.

[Jedieb]

It was as if they'd cloned A-Rod. :cry

[Yog]

Baseball talk confuses me :cry

[JMK]

Then I guess we should start a baseball pool, as hard to maintain as it may be, just so that you finish last!

[Yog]

Haha, I would probably finish last yes. Although, I would do my best to get a respectable position :D

I know that in baseball, they throw the ball, and someone tries to hit the ball with a bat.. sounds promising? :p

[JMK]

They don't throw Yog, they PITCH. Goddamit get it right! ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah the Astros offense was pathetic this year. For example Clemens had an ERA under 2 but couldn't win 15 games. If he pitched for Boston or New York with that ERA he would have won 25 games. There offense was just bad and that was what did them in.

[CMJ]

Been browsing some baseball messageboards. The Cubs fans seem a tad worried to me. They are RIPPING the White Sox(second class citizens, terrible division, low rated World Series, fairweather fans, etc). This was my favorite Sox defense.


Is that what you've been reduced to? your cubs were FOURTH in your division, 3 games under .500 ... you have nothing to say for your own team except that the division the AL is in has some crappy teams? WOW your division is so much better dude.

The NL is so AWESOME that an 89 win team went to the world series and got SWEPT by a team from such an "inferior" division.

Nice try. go back to wrigley and keep cheering on your losers, and i will go back to the cell and support an organization which actually cares about their fans and at least TRIES to put a winning team on the field. my bucks are spent on sending a team to a world series. yours are spent on overpriced beer and special take me out to the ball game guest apperances by people like jeff gordon who think your park is called "Wrigley Stadium".

Owned. :lol

[Jedieb]

Gotta respect that some Cubs fans are sticking to their guns and not jumping on the White Sox bandwagon. They SHOULD hate the Sox. They're wrong though, the Cubs did SUCK this year. And they're going to continue to suck for a long time. Poor Cubs.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I disagree with the statement that the White Sox tried to put the best on the field they are no different than the Cubs, or else it wouldn't have taken 88 years to win the WS again. The White Sox sucked about the same amount as the cubs during that time span. I think the Cubs fans are just jealous, it is interesting they didn't act this way with the Red Sox maybe it is because there is more hatred there.

[JMK]

Hey, give Cubs fan some slack. They'd rather have their hair set on fire than have the Cubs win the series. That guy's argument is totally stupid and nothing more than jealousy but imagine the frustration their having right now.

[jjwr]

And Epstein is gone! I"m suprised he walked, I'm very curious the reasons behind it.

[Jedieb]

Wow, Cashman stays but Epstein walks?! I thought for sure those were going to go the other way. I wonder if the big contract Cashman got had anything to do with it?

[jjwr]

Word is they offered him 3 years at 4.5Million which is only just below what Cashman is making and Epstein has a lot less experience.

[JMK]

The boy genius is out. Hmmm, I wonder why. He must have something else line up or he never would have done this.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It sounds like money issues honestly. He probably thinks the Dodgers (the only team who would offer him that kind of money) will hire him and I bet they will. The Sox should be fine as long as they find someone capable.

[JMK]

It was probably also a power struggle between Lucchino and Epstein as much as it was the money, in fact I'd say more so the power. 1.5 million a year is a lot of money for a GM.

[JMK]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9882012/

Doom and gloom from this article. I hate to say it, but for the most part, it's dead on. The only part I disagree with is the part that Damon can't play center field anymore. The rest of the article is pretty accurate IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't really agree with the article. I don't think he left because he thought the team was falling apart, I feel it was more of a combination of money and power. Epstin felt that he deserved to be paid the same as Cashman because of the fact that Boston won the WS and of course there is the power struggle with Luccanio. The combination of those factors made it tough for him. Besides what if he signs with the Dodgers and gets a contract I bet higher than Cashman (I bet the Dodgers will offer him one higher they have the resources). The Dodgers to me are worse off than Boston, have more problems and and probably a smaller budget. So if what that writer said his true Epstein is really contradicting himself.

I think this is a better idea of what happened
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?id=2209889
Sounds like a big power struggle and money to me, just like I said.

[jjwr]

I agree with some but not all. The word coming out of Boston is Epstein left because of Lucchino, he wanted the keys to the car but Lucchino wasn't quite ready to hand them over yet. To me thats silly as he's been grooming this guy for years so if not now then when? Thats probably what Epstein though and figured it was a no-win situation.

As for the Sox roster there are definetly issues but none that can't be resolved. Damon to me is iffy, if the Sox can get him at 3 years for a reasonable amount then they should go for it. Like the Veritek signing that would be more of a clubhouse move than a strict baseball move.

Sign Konerko, dump Manny for pitching and dump Wells. All of a sudden the starters are a lot younger with Schilling & Wake anchoring it, Foulke has had plenty of time to get healthy and if he can't do it than start shopping.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well they could sign Wagner since he is available. If they can't dump Manny they will have to trade for a decent 1st baseman. I agree it is a situation that is doable. And I think Epstin wanted more power like you said jjwr, and I think the money was a factor too. I still bet on the Dodgers making him some crazy offer within the next week.

[JMK]

Epstein did what no Sox GM was able to do for 86 years! What proof does Lucchino need that he can do the job? Is it too simple to say that Lucchino's ego got in the way of this one?

The key to the Sox is getting a great deal for Manny. There's no good free agent pitchers, unless you consider Burnett good. He's mediocre, and no better than Clement. If they could get their hands on Konerko that would be a tremendous start to replacing Manny. He doesn't hit for the same average, but the power numbers are similar.

As for the pitching, would you be comfortable with Schilling as your 'anchor'? The guy was a mess all year. I'm not sure if he'll ever be the same. Wakefield can pitch till he's 50, but he's not a suitable #2 guy for a team with WS aspirations.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well it will depend on his health. I disagree about Burnett he is a good pitcher, I say he would be a good #2. There is also Millwood he had good stuff last year.

[JMK]

Burnett could be a good #2, but you saw his behavior this year when he was unhappy. He didn't win a single game after a certain point because he was busy being a malcontent. The best he could be is a #2, he just doesn't have the stuff to be a club ace. If he were a Devil Ray, then maybe, but not for an upper level team.

[jjwr]

Don't forget the team he played for, that team was a mess all year.

As for Schilling, while I agree its hard to bank on him but with a early to end to this season he has all off-season to rehab and should come back next year healthy and ready to go.

Konerko would be huge, if they can get him to help Papi that may off-set Manny to a point. Assuming they can resign him for decent cash they should trade Manny, move Damon into left and bring in a top flight defensive center fielder, someone like Pierre.

[JMK]

Pierre would be awesome in a Sox uni.


Don't forget the team he played for, that team was a mess all year.

Then how do you explain Willis' Cy Young contending season? Nor did it stop Beckeet from being 15-8. :p

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well there offense had problems they had trouble scoring runs at times.

[JMK]

Yeah offensively the struggled for sure. So did the Astros. :p

[jjwr]

Sorry, I meant more the issues with managment and all the other stuff going on. In the right environment with a good winning tradition and not being counted on to be the ace I think he could do well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Yeah offensively the struggled for sure. So did the Astros. :p

Well the Astros had better pitching, the Marlins pitching was nowhere near as good, though. I looked it they were 8th in pitching and 8th in the NL hitting. It looks like they were just middle of the pack in both areas.

[jjwr]

Jim Caple has a good take on the Epstein situation

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=caple/051104

[JMK]

That's a pretty funny article. It sounds pretty truthful too. I thought I heard that there's been mass suicides in Boston because of this.

Caple's best point in the article is in pointing out that Williams did the exact same thing in Chicago and barely anyone has mentioned his name.

[Jedieb]

Want to feel even crappier about the steroid scandal? Here ya go:
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/eticket/story?page=steroids&num=1

[JMK]

I've been looking forward to reading this. I also look forward to the day when the NFL gets busted and read that report too. ;)

[JMK]

I just finished reading the first story - from the trainer.

Could Pete Rose be implicated in any more worse things in baseball?

Gambling? Check.
Steroids? Check.

And the one that will never see the light of day because gambling is enough, and secondly because the only person to ever come forward and claim it publicly is in Montreal: A guy I heard on the radio worked for the Expos in the 84 season when Rose stopped for a cup of coffee here. Rose actually got his 4,000th career hit here, but that's besides the point. He swears on his life, and I have no reason to not believe him, that Rose had a machine on the premises that was used to drill out baseball bats so that he could cork them. He says that he was actually there as it was done.

So to recap:
Gambling? Check.
Steroids? Check.
Bat corking? Check.

It really is dizzying when you think about it.

When you hear Rose speak you can just see that he isn't a very bright guy, nor a very honest guy. Do I believe that Rose is guilty of being all of those things and probably more? You bet.

[Jedieb]

If someone told me they had proof he was the guy on the grassy knoll I'd probably believe them.

[JMK]

I just finished reading all 16 stories plus the extras.

My assessment? The same as it's always been. Everyone and his dog knew that steroids were rampant, and whether it was by reluctance, 'clubhouse code', lack of proof or simply not thinking it a big deal, no one chose to come out with it. Sickening.

[Jedieb]

I love the story about the statistician who tracked home run lengths. The guy just ripped Bonds apart. Shameless jerk. Of course I mean Barry.

[JMK]

Too bad there's no credit given to that guy's hobby of tracking home run distances. People will simply laugh and say it's because pitching has been thinned out or the ball is wound tighter. Putzes.

[jjwr]

Sady the wrong guy got picked for MVP today. They sall said the deciding factor was his field play.

What about Ortiz's carrying the Sox and winning a variety of games late?

Much was made of A-Rod's great numbers, 48 Homers but only 130 RBI which points to a lot of Solo Shots and as has been his MO he typically wracks up stats in blowouts or when the game has been decided. Its not necessarily his fault but to praise his stats so heaviyl without putting what Ortiz did into context and awarding it on defense alone was a joke to me.

[Jedieb]

I would have been tempted to go with Big Papi, but not playing the field just killed him. I bet a bunch of voters didn't even put him in their top 2 because of the DH status. Oh well, another MVP, another 100K bonus. You should use that money for a TEAM of analysts and hypnotists to help you with your post season troubles. :cry

[JMK]

I think they got this one right. Fielding is a part of the game, and A-Rod was great at it. It doesn't matter if you get a clutch hit to drive in a winning run or make a game saving pick at third. I also don't believe that a home run in the 1st inning is less valuable than a homer in the 7th or later. Think of it this way, if he was playing 1st base every day in the NL he would barely be in the running for MVP because of Pujols; a guy who puts up better numbers and plays the same position on a division winner. I wouldn't have been pissed if Papi had won the MVP, I just think a baseball player should do all the things that bring value to a team, not just one.

[jjwr]

I would normally agree with that about a DH if it wasn't for the string of game winners and clutch hits Papi provided this year. The Sox would not be in the Playoffs if he wasn't around. I don't know if you can say the same about the Yankees & A-Rod. As for his stats, its not the 1st inning Homer, its the HR's and RBI stacked up when they were up 8-0 in the third or any such silly thing.

[JMK]

New steroid testing! 50 games for first positive test. 100 games for a second and a lifetime ban for a third. With the ban comes with the possibility of reinstatement after 2 years, and I'm sure most guys would get back in. But that's pretty stiff. I think I can be happy with that, as long as the testing is comprehensive and thorough.

This is the biggie though, they've added amphetamine testing to the list. This should send players into a rage. Greenies have been rampant in MLB for decades now and it's accepted amongst all of them. This should be interesting.

[jjwr]

I hope they do repeated testing during the year as well, make sure each player is tested multiple times during the season just to make sure they can't sneak through by getting a early or late test.

[JMK]

I wish they'd also make the testing public, but that will never ever happen. Until they do, these guys have burnt their bridges for good. Too many people will accuse MLB of setting up a system that looks razor sharp but in reality protects its stars.

[JMK]

Pujols gets his MVP! Poor Andruw Jones.

[Jedi Master Carr]

No shock with either award, I figured both had those down.

[JMK]

Sox get Beckett and Lowell for Hanley Ramirez and Anibal Sanchez. Looks alright on paper, but Ramirez was the Sox' only legit prospect, I think they should have kept him and replaced Renteria with him either in 2006 or 2007. People may breathe a sigh of relief over Beckett, but since he won the world series MVP in 2002 he hasn't had one season where he hasn't been injured. And as for Lowell...solid glove, but where did the bat go? This is either a home run or a total bust for the Sox. I wonder what Steinbrenner is thinking now that the Sox picked up one of the 'better' pitchers out there?


As an Expos fan, these 2 bits of info bring a smile to my face:
1- David Samson has cut his FATHER-IN-LAW out of the management picture in Florida, and has ordered the payroll to be cut down to about $40 million by 2007. Yet more proof of the snake this management group really is.
2- When the Expos were to get their new stadium here, it was supposed to be made mainly of glass and metal, which prompted a lot of laughter and ridicule because that type of building material is typically much cheaper than brick. Well guess what team is now looking at a glass and steel stadium? Yup - the Nationals. Nothing is finalized but it makes me glad that things clearly aren't so rosy there.

[JMK]

Loria's name still pops up in this article, but now Samson wants to pull out of Miami too:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2233531

This guy has a serious problem with making things work in the city he's in.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I like the trade. Beckett is a heck of a pitcher, sure his health is a issue but I think he can be a great future #1 and gives you a young arm which they need. About Ramirez well somebody else pointed this out. If he was that good why did they sign Rentari? I think he was an overrated prospect by people like Gammons. I just don't think he was that good.

[JMK]

Only time will tell how good Ramirez will be at SS. The problem with the Sox at short is that they went from Nomar to Cabrera as a short term fix. It would have been difficult from a PR standpoint to go from the legend of Nomar, to a WS championchip and then to throw a prospect in there. For whatever reason Cabrera wasn't high profile enough for them, so they went out and got Renteria and now they're stuck with him.

[JMK]

I guess the Sox weren't stuck with Renteria after all. Once the Braves dealth Furcal the Sox were able to move Renteria. Now they have an opening there. Let's hope they don't make a stupid move and bring in another over the hill, overrated, overpaid player.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well unless they go with Nomar heh nah that won't happen. I hear they will get Alex Gonzalez who is a very good defensive SS just not a very good hitter. At least they are rebuilding their farm system up.

[Jedieb]

Where the hell did the Blue Jays find all this money? They're going to look pretty stupid if they don't at least grab that AL WC spot.

[Jedi Master Carr]

None of the aquisitions by the Blue Jays were any good, IMO. They overpaid for Burnett he wasn't that good with Florida why the heck did they sign him? The Blue Jays are nuts.

[Jedieb]

Burnett's signing is going to make a lot of pitchers rich. Because if a guy with his career numbers can get that kind of money, then what does someone like Zito get next year? And Zito is actually YOUNGER than Burnett!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I agree that is just going to increase the price on a lot of these guys. Also anybody hear talk about a Manny for Tejada swap? Tejada wants out of Baltimore and there contracts are almost the same it would actuallly work out about the same. Makes me wonder if that is why Boston traded Rentaria. Here is the link
http://redsox.bostonherald.com/redSox/view.bg?articleid=116264

[JMK]

The Blue Jays decided that this was the year they were going to try and buy a team. They've already picked up B.J Ryan and Burnett, both of which are good, but not as good as their contracts would indicate. Rumor has it they are also looking for another bat. This on top of the acquisition of Lyle Overbay from thursday.

[Jedieb]

Wow, I never thought I'd see this guy with short hair and sporting pinstripes.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/10552892/

[jjwr]

And another player sells his soul for $$$$

[JMK]

This should surprise absolutely no one.

Gone is the dopey caveman we've all grown to love. Sox fans can only hope that he's taken the money to go to the dark side with the intention of sabotaging their season. Go down with an injury after game 1 and come back well after the Yanks are eliminated from contention. Losing a leadoff guy like Damon would hurt.

One thing is certain though; this era for the Red Sox is over. This team was defined by guys like Damon, Ortiz and Manny. 2 of the 3 are gone or going and the rest of the team is aging rapidly. The Sox could be looking at a long reloading process. I won't say rebuild because free spenders don't 'rebuild'.

With the loss of Manny and Damon this offense will be a shadow of itself. Papi won't put up the same numbers without Manny next to him in the order and the rotation was already a pretty unreliable bunch. With the improvement of the Blue Jays and the Yankees being the Yankees the Sox could be in for a loooooong 2006.

[jjwr]

Yup they have work to do but they have a lot of options still, a Decent Starter they can trade as well as some young talent they can move. They do have holes but they can be filled, the question is will they. They need to square away their front office and move forward, enough of the BS.

I love this line from the Boston Herald

Actually, it's pretty easy to understand. For all of his athletic gifts, we always knew Johnny had the depth of your average kiddie pool, and it's therefore entirely believable that he could invoke the royal Yankee ''we" so quickly.

[Jedieb]

Without Damon and Manny the Sox are going to be hurting. They'll need a monster SEASON from Schilling to contend for a playoff spot. And how SICK is the Yankees lineup going to be now?

1. Damon
2. Cano
3. Jeter
4. A-Rod
5. Shef
6. Matsui
7. Giambi
8. Posada
9. Who cares?
:evil

[Jedieb]

And hate the Yankees all you want, but this was just plain stupidity on Boston's part. They have plenty of resources and in a market where a guy like J.D. Drew can get a $55M deal, to let your leadoff hitter go to your archrival is a boneheaded decision. I never thought I'd see Damon in NY. I thought for sure that Boston would match NY or at least come close enough to be respectable. But when NY offers $52 and Boston sticks to $40, you're basically asking your guy to leave.

And the Yanks re-signed Bernie Williams for a farewell tour for just over $1M. He'll be pinch hitting and I imagine giving Shef and Damon a night off every once in awhile. Way to go Cashman! :thumbup

[JMK]

Great, classy move by Cashman. All baseball fans should appreciate that. Good on Bernie for sticking it out with one team for his whole career. He probably could have gone elsewhere for a little more money and playing time, but I think he made the right choice.

As for the Sox...they're in big, big trouble. You can't rely on Schilling to give you an Cy Young type season. Not at this point.

I never believed for one second that the joint-GM thing was a good strategy. Unless Theo is still behind the scenes pulling the strings. I don't think they can afford to trade any starters. In fact I think they should do more to pick up another starter as it is. They got Beckett, but is that enough? Beckett, Schilling, Wells and Clement are the top 4 guys, but 3 are injury prone, and 2 of the 4 are fossils. Mota will help the back end and it remains to be seen what Papelbon will do. The offense will be depleted, most of the good free agents are gone already. Mike Lowell can only do so much, and I don't think trading away all the prospects is a good idea. 2006 will have to be all about pitching.

[Lance Casey]

While its good that the Yankees signed Damon, cause they really did need him(plus, I called it at the beginning of last season) I am more excited about the fact that Bernie signed on for one more season. Seeing him in another uniform wouldn't be right. Since he is the only player left from the yankees when I first started watching baseball, its great to hear that he will stay in pin stripes.

[JMK]

I think the Yankees order will look more like

1. Damon
2. Jeter
3. A-Rod
4. Shef
5. Matsui
6. Giambi
7. Cano
8. Posada
9. Who cares

That's an all star team, top to bottom. Cano could very well be an all-star this year if he gets any better. Perennial 2nd base star Soriano is in the NL now.

Really though, this could be a huge payoff or a huge disaster for the Yankees. Damon is not as young as he acts and his arm isn't so strong.

[jjwr]

Oh I'm not saying the Sox didn't make some mistakes but they haven't imploded just yet. Lets not forget their swoon at the end of last year and how the majority of the roster outside of Manny & Ortiz couldn't buy a hit down the stretch.

At this point they need to get Manny to return and pull a deal for a solid center fielder, there are a lot of names out there, as long as they get someone who plays good defense they can live without the big bat for now. Graffanino looks like he's back at possibly 2nd base or shortstop and outside of his big error in the playoffs he was a solid .300 hitter last year.

For starters they have Schilling, Beckett, Wakefield, Arroyo, Clemente as well as Papelbon and the leftie Lester on the up and coming. Not sure about Wells, he wants to be traded but if they can't find anyone?

The Yanks definetly have the lineup but this isn't all on the Sox's head. Just like Pedro the year before you can't overpay for a player just because someone else has offered him more. Yes Damon was a great player but you have the draw the line somewhere. By the end of this contract he'll be 36 and making 13Mil a year.

[JMK]

That's what scares me - that the lineup couldn't come through with a hit if it wasn't Manny or Papi. Take away Manny (it will be tough to bring him back, what else can they do to make him comfortable?), and Papi is not what he saw. Take away Damon, and even if Papi is his 2005 self, who is he going to drive in? The order is in big trouble. The combo of Manny and Papi had an effect all through the order. Opposing pitchers will attack differently with that 1-2 punch broken up. The 2006 season is on the shoulders of the rotation. They MUST stay healthy or it's a write-off.

[Jedieb]

Who the hell knows what's going to happen with Manny. The Sox could offer to install a toilet behind the Green Monster and he could change his mind. But now, more than ever, they need to try to keep him. They should have tried to keep Damon. I think he would have stayed if they would have gone up to $48 or $50M. And considering what the market is, that would have been a fair offer for a player that was clutch for your ballclub. Bernie made around $15 last year and he was overpaid by around $12M. But he earned that contract in the 90's and he was being rewarded for everything he did during his prime. That's what the Sox should have done for Damon.

[jjwr]

I wonder what it would take to keep Manny, I wonder if any of us will ever know how far out there he really is.

As for Damon, again I wonder how hard the negotiations were. We know the Sox offered $40 Mil for 4 years, did Damon ever come back with a higher number or vault from the $40 to the $52 of the Yanks? I can understand if they were only sent back the $52 and balked but if nothing was said in between that doesn't make much sense on either side if either wantedt he deal to happen.

[JMK]

Who knows what happens on planet Man-Ram. He's such an oddball. But the Sox desperately need him now. I just don't see what else they could offer him. He's making 20 million. He lives in the sweetest hotel room in the whole city of Boston. He just doesn't like all the criticism and attention. He has to realize that playing in Boston has to be better than playing in KC or heaven forbid, Oakland. Maybe the Sox would have to offer him a certain number of days off. Who knows what it would take.

[CMJ]

Manny's staying, I don't care what he says at this point. :x

[Jedieb]

The only team I've heard make a serious offer is the Orioles. Can you imagine how unhappy he'd be in Baltimore? If you can't love life in Beantown then what the hell will you do in Baltimore?!

[JMK]

The only serious thing I heard was Tejada for Manny. That would be the only acceptable trade that both teams could live with. Swapping MVP candidates isn't such a bad thing for either side, but apparently the Orioles passed on it. Tejada as a Red Sox would provide a big bat and a great short stop - fill 2 needs with one player. But you're right, what the hell would Manny do in Baltimore? He'd lose it.

[jjwr]

The problem is the Orioles wanted Manny + Two Pitchers and thats totally unreasonable.

[JMK]

The Orioles wanted pitching? What for? ;)

Yeah, that's too much to ask. It's almost extortion. They know the Sox want to move Manny and tried to get more than they deserved.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I really can't understand they Yankees, they lost 100 million this season and 70 last year, I guess they want to lose 150 next year (this is from ESPN) at this rate in 5 years the team will be bankrupt, which is fine with me :p Really I don't care, I don't see the Yankees going anywhere they have no pitching. I think it will be the White Sox and Angels again in the ALCS.

[Jedieb]

After signing Damon the Yankees payroll has actually gone DOWN. Right now they're around $30M below their 2005 salary. A lot of dead money got lost. I'm pretty sure the disaster that was Kevin Brown is finally gone and off the payroll. Plus, Bernie is now more than $10M cheaper. I'm not sure, but I think that's around $25M in payroll right there.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They are still over the luxury tax cap by a good 30-50 million. Next season they will pay a 50% rate. If they stay over for the next five years they will eventually pay 100%, so unless Donald Trump dies and gives Steinbrenner his money I think they are in some trouble down the road.

[Jedieb]

I have no idea where these salaries are going. The payroll margin between the Sox and Yankees is going to close a bit next year. They BOTH had to pay the luxury tax this season. The Sox really blew it with Damon. For goodness sakes, Furcal just got $39M for only 3 years. Whoever's in charge of the beantown front office right just didn't get the job done. Now they're going to have to scramble to get a CF now and they may end up paying more than they would have for Damon. The Yankees also poached the Sox bullpen. They signed Mike Myers to help solidify the bullpen and make up for the loss of Flash Gordon.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Myers isn't that good, he is average at best. I think Boston is going after that CF from Seattle I forget his name but he is a young kid who has a lot of upside. Of course I don't like where Boston's payroll is going. Look at the White Sox they are paying half of what those teams are paying and they to me have a better team, at the moment. Shoot right now I think they can repeat next year with the team they got.

[JMK]

The White Sox can definetly improve. How do you improve on a great season and World Series title? I don't know, but on paper they look better now than they did a year ago.

[Jedieb]

CF Johnny Damon
SS Derek Jeter
RF Gary Sheffield
3B Alex Rodriguez
1B Jason Giambi
LF Hideki Matsui
C Jorge Posada
DH Bernie Williams
2B Robinson Cano

I may have to finally break down and get the YES Network. That damn lineup is a thing of beauty. Damon and Jeter are going to make pitchers work. Hell, Jeter actually had BETTER numbers as a leadoff hitter last year than Damon. Shef and A-Rod are each going to have a chance at 120-150 RBI's. Then pitchers are going to have to sweat through two lefties and that short porch in right field. I like the idea of having Giambi hit in front of Matsui because Giambi still has a good eye and knows how to work the count and draw walks. Even when he was slumping miserably last year he could still get on base with a walk. Matsui is clutch with men on base so he's headed for another 100 RBI season. Then comes a bottom of the order that not only has some pop, but speed. With Cano you basically have back to back to back lead off hitters for Shef and A-Rod to work with their second time through the order. And don't discount what a healthy Bernie Williams might be able to do if he doesn't have to play the outfield on a daily basis. His numbers just may be able to improve from last year.

Man, this is going to be fun to watch. :smokin

[JMK]

So the Yankees will be losing a lot of 9-8 games then? ;)

A guy I know BURNED his $150 Damon jersey last night he was that upset.

[jjwr]

Thats about my summation of the Yankee's prospects JMK :)

Hear the Yanks had to pay $34 Mil in Luxury tax this year? Ouch!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it gets higher for them every year. I think that and the fact they revalued the Yes Network and the Yankees own them millions, those two things will bankrupt Steinbrenner sooner or later.