Sept 1 - Oct 2 MLB Thread

[Jedieb]

It's the home stretch boys and girls. The Yanks finish their series with Mariners tonight and the Red Sox are going for a sweep of the Devil Rays tonight. The Yankees start a HUGE series with the A's tomorrow. The AL West and AL WC leads may change day to day depending on how the Yanks and A's play out. A sweep by either one of these teams could put the loser in a hole they won't be able to dig out of.

The NL race is just as tight with the Mets and Florida still going at it and Philly and Washington battling each other. Since this is our last month of the regular season I think we should start making some predictions. Let's see who gets the highest number of playoff teams correct. Entries due by Sept. 5, the Devil need not apply. :evil

[Jedieb]

AL East - Yankees
AL Central - Chicago
AL West - Oakland
AL Wild Card - Angles (I can dream, can't I?)

NL East - Florida (That's right, I said it!!!)
NL Central - St. Louis
NL Least - San Out in the First Round Diego
NL Wild Card - Mets

[jjwr]

Ooh a Sox Shutout...thats not nice Jedieb!

Sounds like fun though, I'll reply later!

[Jedi Master Carr]

AL East Boston
AL Central Chicago White Sox
AL West Angels
AL Wild Card Cleveland

NL East Atlanta
NL Central St. Louis
NL West San Diego
NL Wild Card Philadelphia

[Jedieb]

O's beat the Red Sox tonight and the A's are brutalizing the Yankees 10-0 and it's only the 2nd inning. Leiter got lit up and didn't even make it out of the 1st inning. :cry

[jjwr]

I just saw that box score...what happened?

I gotta say I'm rooting for the A's but thats definetly a shocker of a start.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think the A's might sweep them and if that happens the Yankees won't make the playoffs. Boston will win the next two, they only lost today because that bum Dinardo pitched because of Wells suspension.

[Hera]

When, I say, WHEN did Bellhorn become a Yankee? O_o

[JMK]

Earlier this week.

Mark my words, if somehow the Yanks and Sox hook up in the playoffs, Bellhorn will leave his impact on the series.

Not that it matters any more, but:

Babe
Buckner
Boone


Bellhorn.


:evil

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't know why they picked him up he was playing horrible in the minors when they released him. He really isn't a very good player. I think they picked him to try to steal something from Boston, I mean strategy.

[Hera]

I read they signed him on the 30th Aug. I was kinda dumbstruck when I heard the sportscaster mentioning him during last night's game.

The world gets crazier every day.

I dont know why they signed him. Sure, he hit that homerun in last years World Series that made him a hero for like..3 seconds, but didn't he lead the League in Strikeouts??

I just dont understand the move, though your gleaning suggestion makes some sense. A little, anyway.

[Jedieb]

They picked him up just to have a glove and a bat for the home stretch. The first day he was there A-Rod was able to DH and rest up. And remember, they've got Embree in the bullpen as well.

Well today the Yankees got a measure of revenge. Small pitched a gem of a complete game and the Yankees won 7-0. Now the Yanks and A's have the same record again and will be either tied or a game behind depending on what happens with Seattle and the Angles. Boston evened up their series with Baltimore so their lead is still at 3.5. The Sox have one more game with the O's, a make up game with the White Sox, and then big series with the Angles and the Yanks. Big, big, games coming up.

[jjwr]

AL East - Red Sox
AL Central - Chicago
AL West - Angels
AL Wild Card - Yankees

NL East - Atlanta
NL Central - St. Louis
NL Least - San Diego
NL Wild Card - Nationals

[JMK]

AL East - Red Sox
AL Central - Chicago
AL West - Angels
AL Wild Card - Yankees

NL East - Atlanta
NL Central - St. Louis
NL East - San Diego
NL Wild Card - Florida

[CMJ]

Originally posted by JMK
AL East - Red Sox
AL Central - Chicago
AL West - Angels
AL Wild Card - Yankees

NL East - Atlanta
NL Central - St. Louis
NL East - San Diego
NL Wild Card - Florida

The same as mine.

[Jedieb]

Thank you Chi Sox!!!!

Great start from the young pitcher McCarthy. The White Sox had a fireballer of a closer throwing in the high 90's. He looked great but because of an error he had to face a couple of extra hitters and got nailed for a 3 run blast by Graffanino in the 9th. Schilling looked a little better, but still gave up 4 runs over 6 1/3. Foulke did give up a hit in his inning of work which should encourage the Sox faithful. Now the Sox hit the road and visit the Angles and then da Bronx.

The Yankees are starting a homestand with the big bad AL East bullies the Tampa Bay Devil Rays. While the Sox are battling the division leading Angles the Yankees can't afford to come away from this series with anything less than a 2-1 win. Enough is enough, they can't keep getting their nads handed to them by the likes of the D-Rays. The Angles can easily sweep or win their home series with Sox. The Angles are at home and they've got the A's breathing down their necks. The Yanks can open this next weekend's AL East showdown just 1 or 2 games behind.

[JMK]

Originally posted by CMJ
The same as mine.

You know what they say about great minds? ;)

I seriously considered putting the Yankees as the AL East winner. I do think they'll grab first at some point before the end, especially with the schedule the Sox have this week but I think the Sox will manage to win by a game or 2. The Yankees seem to be back on track and the Sox haven't had a big meltdown this year, they've barely even had a bad week this year. They've had a couple great weeks, and then just mediocre-good weeks.

[Jedieb]

I was wrong about the Sox roadtrip, it doesn't start until the weekend. The Red Sox will get to play the Angles at Fneway. The Angles and Sox are division leaders but in reality they're both in the WC race as well. If either one of these teams were to get swept they could find themselves out of the division lead and battling for the WC by the end of the weekend. Because it's at Fenway i expect the Sox to win this 3 game series. I don't expect a sweep from either of these teams.

[JMK]

Yeah, I'd expect some real high scoring games. Last man standing type stuff. 10-8 scores. Boy can these 2 teams hit.

[CMJ]

I'd take a bullet for David Ortiz.:smokin

[jjwr]

He is the MAN!!!

I like Manny but right now there is no other hitter I want up in the 9th inning with the game on the line.

Go Rays!!!

[Jedieb]

And the Rays beat Mo and the Yanks in the 9th. We're 4-10 against them. There's the division and quite possibly the playoffs. Holy cow. :cry

[Jedi Master Carr]

Who would have thought Tim Wakefield would be leading Boston in wins?? I think it is close between him and Clement and if Clement hadn't got hit in the head I think he would be the leader. Great game by Boston hopefully they can keep it up.

Also I stand by Cleveland winning the WC. I think their youth will help them prevail, but at the same time they worry me come postseason, as they would get Boston first series.

[JMK]

You know, if the Yankees had of taken care of business vs the Rays this year, they'd probably be in first by now. They'd certainly be in full control of the wild card.

They're still leading the WC chase and I still think they'll luck themselves into it, but they certainly don't deserve it.

[jjwr]

The past few weeks the schedule has really played out in their favor as far as the WC is concerned, first the A's & Angels played, then the Yanks and A's, now the Sox & Angels, so in every case its pretty much win win and in their series with the A's even more so.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Don't rule out the Indians I think they are going to overtake the Yankees for the WC, just a feeling I have.

[JMK]

I'm not ruling out the Indians just yet, but I think they'll finish out of it. Sabathia is pitching better and some guys are really coming around like Martinez and Peralta.

[Jedieb]

Bottom of the first and the Yankees were already down 4 runs to the D-Rays. Needless to say, I was not in a good mood. Much profanity was in the air. Well, they clawed and scraped and in the bottom of the Giambi just may have saved the season. He hit another clutch HR and the Yanks beat the Rays. Everyone else seemed to have won, including the A's who put up 5 in the bottom of the 9th to win a miracle. Boston beat up on the Angles again so that's some good WC news for NY.

[JMK]

Damn Giambi. Damn him!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That loss could have been a nail in the coffin for the Yankees. It almost certainly would have knocked them out of the division race, now they still have a decent shot. As for the other NY team, the Mets are pretty much finished. Looper blew another one, that guy has got to go.

[Jedieb]

Last week the Mets looked like a team that could scare people, but Atlanta finished them off with this sweep. But we all know who Atlanta is scared of, don't we boys and girls? That's right, they want NO part of the big bad fish. If you're a Braves fan (I pity you) you want no part of the Marlins. If you meet them in the playoffs you might as well start reserving tee times for the following week. Just like you own the Mets, they own you. During your little 14 year division run they've not only come into existance, but they've won 1 more WS title than you have. They've done it at your expense both times and they're likely to do it again.

Jason Giambi: Comeback Player of the Year?
This Yankee Homer says NO. Look, I love the guy. We'd be out of the division and WC race without him. Of all the steroid freaks, he's the only one that's even come close to issuing a mea culpa for what he did. But we all know that he more than likely brought it upon himself. Tumor or no tumor, those 'roids probably contributed to his illness last year. Would you give Ricky Williams a comeback award if he rushes for 1,500 yards in 10 games this year? Hell no. My pick for MLB comeback player is Junior. It's great to see Griffey put up good numbers again, even if he misses a few games down the stretch.

[JMK]

No way should Giambi win it. No chance. He did these injuries to himself. He didn't injure himself by falling into the dugout to catch a foul ball. He didn't get sick because he didn't dress properly. He was sick and off the field because of the way he abused his body with illegal substances. Kudos to him for being clean (hopefully) this year, but you shouldn't get a medal of honor. Comparing him to Ricky Williams is great and fits perfectly. Neither should get any sort of award like that.

[jjwr]

The Devil Rays rule!!!

It would be nice for the Sox to pull out a win but I'm not counting on it. On the bright side Foulke looked very good in the 9th, thats a very good sign!

[Jedieb]

Another series loss to the D-Rays, and this one at home. There's the division title right now. The Sox have a man on with 1 out in the bottom of the 9th, but they're down by three. The big series starts tomorrow. The Yanks have to either sweep or win 2 out of 3. They can't afford to lose this series and a sweep would put the division well out of reach. Tonight's loss puts them a half game behind Cleveland.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Better watch out for those Indians right now, they are playing very good ball.

[JMK]

The Sox could have done in the Yanks for sure with a win tonight, but huge props to the Angels pitching staff tonight, especially Shields and K-Rod. Those 2 guys were brilliant. They were in some extremely tough spots and they punched out everyone, including Manny, Papi and others. Sometimes with bases loaded. Great performances by the bullpen.

[jjwr]

They were down right dominant in the 8th, bases loaded with Manny & Papi and you never really got a feeling that the Sox were going to score, very impressive. If the Angels win it they'll be a tough first round opponent for someone.

Yanks definetly aren't out of it yet, Sox still only have the 4 game lead and after the Sox series the Yanks get to beat up on the Blue Jays & Orioles for a week. Had the Sox won last night and gone into the weekend with a 5 game lead it would be looking much worse.

[JMK]

It's unlikely, but if the Yanks sweep the Sox then they're 1 game back. They're definetly not out of it.

Cleveland grabs the WC lead in the AL, so right now the Yankees are on the outside looking in. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep which is a good thing :) Hopefully Boston can take 2 out of 3, if that happens they almost take that division, concidering Boston beats up on the Devil Rays, Blue Jays and Orioles until the last series with New York.

[JMK]

I still have the sense that as long as the Yankees are in it, they will get the WC. Probably the cynic in me, as well as wishful thinking, as I would LOVE to see what happens to that team, and Steinbrenner should they miss the postseason altogether. All because of the mighty Tampa Bay Devil Rays! :lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL I know it :) I think it more depends how the Indians hold up, they are a young team they could fade at the end.

[JMK]

I still think the Indians are the least likely to grab the WC, just because of their inexperience. Next year they should win the division IMO. The A's or Angels are more likely to take it, and I hope that the Yankees can lose a couple more series before the end. Too bad they don't play to D-Rays anymore, or do they? :evil

[Jedieb]

You're all going to suffer for these barbs..... :shootin

Wells The Traitor with the 'Trick' Back against Small tonight. This is it boys and girls. A series loss or a sweep and kiss the division goodbye. Tampa, how could you do me so wrong? :cry

[JMK]

:lol

The traitor.

You got Bellhorn. And had Clemens. And Boggs.

I think we can call it even. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh yeah, I think the Indians can because of their two pitchers Sabathia and Lee those two guys are awesome and could help them down the strech, also they play like 7 games against Kansas City that sure doesn't hurt :p

[Jedieb]

3

[CMJ]

I'm not really concerned yet Eb. :p

[jjwr]

The only way this series has a huge impact is a sweep by either team and I doubt the Yanks will sweep, it will be a 2-1 win which only adds or removes 1 game from the standings. The division will be decided in the next 2 weeks with how these guys play against the other teams and may very well come down to the final series.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Back to 4, sox won 9-2. Schilling was very impressive, and I would say about time.
I agree with you jjwr it is going to come down to the other teams. The team that worries me is the blue jays, they have had Boston's number this year for some reason.

[jjwr]

Agreed, the Jays have been to Boston what the Rays have been to the Yanks.

Schilling was very impressive tonight, if he can pitch like that from here on out the Sox are going to be very tough.

Huge came tomorrow, if the Sox can pull out the win they'll be up 5 games. Every bit of cusion going into the stretch run is a added bonus, with luck the Sox will just keep cruising along and the Yanks will crash.

[Jedieb]

Wife's been under the weather so I actually had to watch the kids and feed them today. The nerve of the woman.

From the highlights, it looks like Schilling pitched his best game of the year. Good news for Sox fans, craptastic for Yankees fans. A weep was too much too hope for, but we have to have Sunday's game. Can't let the Sox leave town with a 5 game lead. I haven't checked the WC today but we shouldn't be more than 1.5 out of that.

[JMK]

Yep, 1.5 back of Cleveland. Still plenty of time for the WC, but if the Sox win today the division is pretty much out of reach. At least it should be.

[jjwr]

A's won as well so they are tied with the Yanks for the WC. Sadly the Sox & A's play soon so thats a win/win for the Yanks.

[Jedieb]

The Unit came up with his best performance of the season. He gave up just 1 hit today and outdueled Wakefield. Shef was out for the 3rd day in a row. I haven't heard much about his leg, but the Yanks can't win without the ADHD swing of his.

[Jedieb]

Oh no, the Yanks have a 3 game set with the Devil Rays next. Get on the phone and schedule the tee times, season's over. :x

[JMK]

You'd think if they don't take this series then yes, it's pretty much over. But then again you can't write off the Yanks until they're mathematically eliminated.

[JMK]

Flipping back and forth from MNF and the Sox/Jays game, and the Sox bully implodes again. They blew a 5-0 lead in one inning and wasted a nice performance by Arroyo. I should probably go easy on Timlin as he has only given up 2 HR's all year but this was not the time to throw a meatball to Vernon Wells. A 3-run shot to tie the game. Foulke was terrible and Timlin didn't even have time to be poor before he was rocked.

[Jedieb]

Wow, I'd given up following that game once the Sox went up 5-0. Still, it's not over and I expect Big Papi to deliver a crushing extra inning shot any moment now.

[Jedieb]

Told ya. And he did it on a 3-2 pitch. Unfreakin' believable.

[Jedieb]

Game over. Note to MLB teams not from Boston: NEVER PITCH TO ORTIZ IF HE CAN LEAVE YOU HOLDING YOUR (pick your appendage)! Back to 3.5. And tomorrow we start a series with the Devil Rays. :cry

[CMJ]

It's cliche now....BUT

I'd take a bullet for Ortiz. :smokin

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh CMJ I think there are many Red Sox fans who would do the same thing.

[jjwr]

I still say trade Manny in the offseason and build around Ortiz, the guy plays everyday and is constantly coming up in the clutch!

17 Games!!!!

[JMK]

That guy is a beast. There's no better clutch hitter in baseball right now than Ortiz. I'd walk that guy with the bases loaded.

As for trading Manny and building around Ortiz, I think that's risky. Sure Manny's a flake, but him and Ortiz batting 3-4 in the order give the entire Sox lineup a dimension that no one else in baseball has. Can you imagine the Sox without either of those 2 now?

[jjwr]

It definetly seems like a risky proposition but with what Manny costs the Sox could go out and pick up two top flight FA's to stick around Ortiz, in theory have someone who can actually play right field and doesn't constantly take days off.

I'm not saying Manny isn't a great hitter but there has to be a way to replace him with 20M free'd up. Course I don't know what this years Free Agent crop is looking like.

[JMK]

In theory yes, they should be able to replace Manny, but look at the Yankees. They've spent HUGE money on F.A.s and they don't even have the 1-2 punch that Manny-Ortiz brings.

[CMJ]

Don't ruin the chemistry...keep both.

[JMK]

Yeah, ideally they should keep both. They drive the team above and beyond that shaky pen of theirs. Eventually though, I suspect that Manny will want his walking papers and will force a trade. He's just too aloof.

[Jedieb]

2.5
You have to keep them both. manny is a WC, but you have no gaurantee that you'll be able to get the same caliber of hitter if you trade Manny. These guys protect each other, they make each other better. I wouldn't move either one of them unless I had to.

AL MVP
The names I keep hearing are Ortiz, A-Rod, and Guerrero. As clutch at Ortiz has been, he's still a DH. I don't think an MVP has ever been given to a part time player. I heard a stat this morning that no one with less than 100 games played has ever won the award. A-Rod's numbers across the board have been more than solid. His defense has also been better than most people realize. After a rocky start he got his grove and I believe had a couple of stretches where he had several weeks without an error. The strange though is, if I had to pick a team MVP I'd give it to Giambi. By my count the guy has won at least 5 games for the Yankees with clutch hits and HR's. He's our Ortiz. But A-rod has the rock solid numbers that stand out.

[JMK]

I think it will come down to A-Rod and Ortiz. If the Yanks win the WC, A-Rod wins, if not this may be the first time ever that a non-position player wins the MVP. I don't think a DH should get the MVP, but Ortiz is #1 in so many offensive categories. It's hard not to at least strongly consider him.

[Jedieb]

The Yankees and Red Sox have been handed their gonads all season long by the least the east has to offer. The Devil Rays' pounding of the Yanks has grabbed the headlines but the Blue Jays have quitely won 9 of 13 against the Sox. After this series the Red Sox will play one more series against the Blue Jays. Mercifully, the Yanks have only two games against the mighty D-Rays.

[sirdizzy]

Anyone else besides me want to see Barry Bonds suffer a career ending injury before he can hit another home run. I don't want to see a great like Babe Ruth and his vast accomplishments be belittled by that pill popping %%%&$$&. I doubt he can catch Hank Aaron another guy I have deep respect for. All Bonds acheivements should be followed by an astrix and I want Ruth to stay #2 so here for Bonds breaking his leg or neck or something.


Also I got nothing against the Red Sox but I am still sad to see the curse of the bambino gone. This to me was one of those cool legends I never wanted to see go away. To me I could have liked the bosox before they broke the curse now I despise them so very very much.

[jjwr]

Your not the only one SD, I don't want to see him hit another HR.

Jedieb, with your MVP comment I thought you were going to go with the popular opinion and say A-Rod but to me he has put up some of the quietest stats you'll see. You rarely hear about him getting the huge hit to win the game or the clutch hit, etc. For the last month all you hear is Giambi. I don't see how A-Rod can win it when he's not the best clutch hitter on his own team.

Like Manny he piles up the numbers but its guys like Giambi & Ortiz who seem to get the hits when they count the most.

[Jedieb]

My only problem with Ortiz is the DH argumet. I just don't see voters giving it to a DH. In the end, I think A-Rod will probably win because of his numbers. But when it comes to clutch hits, Giambi and Ortiz are the guys who've provided the ammo for their teams. Giambi had a terrible start and the steroid scandal so he's out and Big Papi is a DH. If Ortiz had 50+ HR's, a higher avg. than A-Rod, and around 150 RBI I think they'd have to give it to him. But their numbers are so similiar that I think voters will go with A-Rod in the end.

Cleveland keeps on winning. Both the Yankees and Sox should be scared of them. They're gaining on BOTH of us. If the Yanks can hang on they'll still be 1 behind them and 2.5 behind the Sox. It may just come down to that last series and Fenway and the loser may find themselves behind the Indians.

[Jedieb]

Oh, and Bonds is a jagoff.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Mo Vaughn won one year and he was almost a DH :p His fielding numbers at 1st base was so bad he should have been a DH though.

[CMJ]

And 90% of the way thru the season here would be the playoff spots.

AL EAST
Boston Red Sox

AL CENTRAL
Chicago White Sox

AL WEST
Anaheim/LA Angels

AL WILD CARD
Cleveland Indians


NL EAST
Atlanta Braves

NL CENTRAL
St. Louis Cardinals

NL WEST
San Diego Padres

NL WILDCARD(tie )
Florida Marlins
Philadelphia Phillies

[Jedi Master Carr]

The NL wild card changes by the day, throw in Houston they aren't far behind either.

[CMJ]

I was saying the actual positions as of now Carr. Houston is mathematically behind the other two.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh yeah that is true. I think I was just saying how close that race it. I have no idea who will win that one.

[Jedieb]

And Papi did it AGAIN yesterday. I think tha's his 3rd game winner in the last 5 days and he's hit something like 11 HR's in his last 16 starts. I think it may come down to the division. The winner of the AL East may just carry their player to the MVP.

[jjwr]

Papi is a beast. 4 HR's in his last 3 games, also set the ML record for HR's by a DH(38).

They went over some numbers last night for the MVP, their regular stats are fairly even, A-Rod leads in Avg by a wide margin and Papi has the RBI lead by a ton.

Then they compare numbers with runners in scoring position(these may be off by a few as I can't remember exactly)

A-Rod .276 - 6HR - 64RBI
Papi .364 -7HR - 80RBI

Huge leads there for Papi, regardless of the MVP the man is a monster.

As for Cleveland...31-11 in their last 42 and they have 6 games left against the White Sox, they could actually take the division in the next 2 weeks...

[JMK]

They've been the best team in the AL since May I think. They had a bad April, but have been great ever since.
The Yankees still scare me. They're doing JUST enough to keep themselves in it. They have to sweep the Rays and they're in position to do that. They're not losing any more ground, and I gotta think that the Indians will hit a rough patch at some point before the end where they lose 4 of 5 or something and end up on the outside looking in. I hope I'm wrong though.

As great as Papi has been, as clutch as he's been, they can't give the MVP to a DH, just as I believe that a pitcher shouldn't win the MVP either. Anyone who only plays on one side of the field or comes out once every 5 days should not win it. Ever.

[JMK]

Most people here don't care for Jim Rome, but his take on Barry Bonds is pretty much dead on:



Is there anything more hilarious than San Francisco Giants fans giving Barry Bonds standing ovations every time he turns around? It’s really not surprising. Victor Conte could walk up to home plate and rub Barry with the cream and Giant Fan would be on his feet.

His trainer Greg Anderson could jam a funnel into Bonds’ mouth and force copious amounts of the clear down this throat and Giant Fan wouldn’t care. Jose Canseco could jam a needle in Barry’s backside in the on deck circle and Giant Fan would come out of his seat. Raphael Palmeiro and Ben Johnson could squeeze into the batter’s box to load him full of bull intestines and Giants Fan wouldn’t care.

What are you people cheering about? The guy pretty much took steroids, probably lied about it, mishandled his comeback, which could end up costing the Giants the West and you’re all applauding. It makes perfect sense to me! Just don’t burden them with the details. They see the ball in the bay and they don’t care how it got there. Giant Fan has taken myopia to a whole new level.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
They've been the best team in the AL since May I think. They had a bad April, but have been great ever since.
The Yankees still scare me. They're doing JUST enough to keep themselves in it. They have to sweep the Rays and they're in position to do that. They're not losing any more ground, and I gotta think that the Indians will hit a rough patch at some point before the end where they lose 4 of 5 or something and end up on the outside looking in. I hope I'm wrong though.

As great as Papi has been, as clutch as he's been, they can't give the MVP to a DH, just as I believe that a pitcher shouldn't win the MVP either. Anyone who only plays on one side of the field or comes out once every 5 days should not win it. Ever.


Well pitchers have won occasionally. Last one has been a while, I think Clemens won it one year, can't think of any others recently.

[JMK]

Didn't Pedro beat out Pudge a few years ago?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Did he? If he did it must have been the year he was unhitable, 1999?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Nope Pudge won that year. I think Pedro finished second, and people argued he should have won. Last pitcher to win was Dennis Eckersley back in 92, that is kind of shocking really. Clemens won in 1986 and a Willie Hernadez for detriot. In the NL its been forever, Bob Gibson was the last one in 68 heck that year pitcher won in both leagues. Denny McClaine for the AL, I guess the year he won 30.

[JMK]

Well if a pitcher can win 30, and basically be undefeated in a year, sure, give him the MVP. Otherwise, forget it. An everyday player gets it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Looking at the history at MLB about MVPs really it became rare after the CY Young award was added in 1967. Since then only 7 pitchers have won MVP before that it was much more common. I think most sportswriters think well pitchers have their award so why give them the MVP, because of that I wouldn't rule out them picking a DH as it isn't like they have an award.

[JMK]

They couldn't make a DH award. Firstly, it wouldn't make sense. It would be for the best hitter who isn't good enough to be a real full time player, which is almost an insult. Secondly, it would be an AL-only award, which means that the winner is the best hitter among the 14 other guys in the league who aren't good enough to play a position.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well if they had an award only for the best hitter,I guess that is what I mean. Obviously best DH wouldn't work :p

[JMK]

:lol

Can you imagine the debates that would stem from that? Hitting for average vs hitting for power? Someone who has an average of .320 but an on-base percentage of .410 vs someone who's hitting .300 but with an on-base of .450. God would the media just go nuts with that one.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL yeah it be hilarious. Or they could bring up the whole OPS thing, which people like Neyer love to get into on ESPN.

[JMK]

Yeah, it would spill over into so many other parts of baseball. If the guy can't bunt a guy over, he's not great, if he doesn't steal, he's not a multi-dimensional offensive threat. It would be so funny. I kind of hope they do it just so we can laugh at them.

[Jedieb]

yep, I agree, Jim Rome is definitely an idiot! ;)
But he's right no about Bonds. Ughh, I think I'll call in sick to work the day he passes Ruth.

[JMK]

Unbelievable.

Dan Patrick just asked Joe Theismann if he thinks a DH can win MVP, he thought yes, a DH could win it. When Dan disagreed Theismann suggested creating a separate award for designated hitters. This JUST happened.

Of course, Theismann has predicted that the Redskins will win the Superbowl this year, so it's a moot point, but still. What a putz.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well Theismann is really a football guy so I wouldn't pay much attention to him on baseball. As for the Redskins well he is bias. I remember when Len Dawson always picked the Chiefs when he used to be on Inside the NFL even when they sucked.

[JMK]

Exactly, in the end who really cares what he thinks about baseball (or football, he's a dink), but it was only a matter of time before someone brought up the DH award.

He actually said that the fact that he played for the Redskins had nothing to do with him picking them.

[CMJ]

The White Sox seem intent on making the division race interesting.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by JMK
Exactly, in the end who really cares what he thinks about baseball (or football, he's a dink), but it was only a matter of time before someone brought up the DH award.

He actually said that the fact that he played for the Redskins had nothing to do with him picking them.

LOL yeah right Dawson said the same thing :p He is just too much true blue there. And yeah the White Sox are trying to blow it I think.

[jjwr]

Don't forget the Indians have 6 more games with the White Sox, if the Sox keep faltering and the A's fall off you could see the White Sox out of the Playoffs and both the Sox & Yanks in again.

As for MVP, to me fielding shouldn't have anythin to do with it. Where would the Sox be without Ortiz? Not in 1st place thats for sure, with what he's done I don't see how he can't at least get serious condsideration.

[JMK]

Guillen had a closed door meeting with his veterans last night before the game. I suspect it was about being lazy and not playing like it matters. They've made themselves to look very very vunerable in the playoffs. Regardless of who they play in the first round I'm not taking the White Sox.

[Jedieb]

Yanks, down 5-1, came up with a huge 6th inning. Cano hit a GS to tie the game and A-Rod made a gain in the MVP race with a go ahead 2 run HR. Boston is down by 3, but it's early and we know their bats can erase that lead in a heartbeat. The Indians have the night off.

[JMK]

With all due respect to Ortiz, A-Rod is the MVP. He's been playing GREAT all year long, both at the plate and at 3rd base. He deserves it over anyone at the moment. If the Yankees get in the playoffs, he ought to be a lock. Period.

[jjwr]

If they make it he will have a much stronger case, but if they don't? The Yankee's lineup is loaded, that also has to come into play, Ortiz really doesn't have much around him when you compare it to A-Rod.

[JMK]

Well maybe Ortiz doesn't benefit fromt he household names that A-Rod does, but the Sox lead the majors in batting average, .281 team average vs the Yankees 2nd place .275. The Sox have scored the most runs in the majors, and have the best OBP in the majors, but are SEVENTH in homers. So while Matsui, Jeter and Sheffield play in the Bronx, the guys in the Fens seem to be doing a better job of hitting overall, being on-base and scoring.

All that being said, A-Rod has the same numbers, if not a little better than Ortiz, and has gold glove defense.

IMO, 162 games of gold glove 3rd base and great overall numbers is better than a clutch hitting DH.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by jjwr
If they make it he will have a much stronger case, but if they don't? The Yankee's lineup is loaded, that also has to come into play, Ortiz really doesn't have much around him when you compare it to A-Rod.

They were talking about that on Mike and Mike in the morning. Actually, Ortiz has MORE than A-Rod does. A-Rod has bigger and more established names, but the Sox are hitting for a higher average than the Yankees and just about everybody else in MLB if I'm not mistaken. Plus, Ortiz has Manny right next to him. They're the most feared 1-2 punch in the league and they protect each other.


All that being said, A-Rod has the same numbers, if not a little better than Ortiz, and has gold glove defense.
The defense is huge as well. If you've got a higher average, equal power numbers, and you're in the running for a gold glove then that's a big advantage over a DH. Papi's RBI's and clutch hits may not be enough to overcome that edge.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
They were talking about that on Mike and Mike in the morning. Actually, Ortiz has MORE than A-Rod does. A-Rod has bigger and more established names, but the Sox are hitting for a higher average than the Yankees and just about everybody else in MLB if I'm not mistaken.


Yeah, what I said. :p


The defense is huge as well. If you've got a higher average, equal power numbers, and you're in the running for a gold glove then that's a big advantage over a DH. Papi's RBI's and clutch hits may not be enough to overcome that edge.

All the clutch stuff is fantastic, but it shouldn't be greater than, or equal to gold glove defense for an entire season. No way, no how.

[CMJ]

BTW - The Cardinals clinched last night. Seven more spots left.

[JMK]

Funny, I thought the Cardinals clinched April 1st. ;)

[Jedieb]

We thought the White Sox had clinched on April 1st also, now look at them. The Indians just took a 2-1 lead over the Royals so the pressure is back on the White Sox. I'm pretty sure these guys still have a 3 game series to play. Man, if the Chi Sox blow this one it would be a historic collapse. Because of the A's, Angles, Sox, and Yanks, they could lose the division and miss the playoffs.

Cano is unconscious right now. He hit GS last night and just hit a 3run HR to give the Yanks the lead after Johnson got tossed for arguing. It's raining at Fenway but it looks like they're going to start any minute now.


Yeah, what I said.
whoops, didn't see that. I think I had my reply screen up for awhile this morning. You sound like a lot of the traditionalist that won't give Ortiz a chance unless he outhits A-Rod by a dozen homers and has 50 more RBI's. I'm just trying to play devil's advocate. Who's going to trust this Yankees Homer in a Ortiz A-Rod MVP debate? ;)

[Jedieb]

Ortiz did it AGAIN. He just went deep and tied the game at 2. Because of Johnson's early ejection the Yanks and Blue Jays have been slugging it out. It's 11-10 in the bottom of the 8th. Cleveland has already won so the pressure is on in the White Sox who are tied with the Twins in the 8th. Wow, big night.

[CMJ]

Great night of baseball. You can tell the postseason is right around the corner.

[JMK]

Yeah, a terrific night of ball. I was hoping the Jays would pull off the comeback, but they were just too far down. Oh well. Nothing changes in the east. But Oakland slips further out of it. It's looking more and more like a Cleveland vs NYY showdown for the WC.

[sirdizzy]

I wouldn't say that because boston is only a game and a half ahead of the yanks with a 3 game series to end the season on the horizon

its more of nyy vs cleveland vs boston for the wild card

[CMJ]

Actually it's like Cleveland vs NY vs Boston vs Oakland vs Anaheim vs Chicago for the Wild Card. :p

[sirdizzy]

I think its going to be Cleveland that gets the wild card and the loser of the east whether it be the yanks or boston will be spenidng the post season at home.

[Jedieb]

The White Sox got shut out by the Twins. If Cleveland wins again they cut that lead down to 3.5. These teams start a 3 game set on Monday. They also end the season AT Cleveland. In between those big series they have the Twins and Tigers. Meanwhile Cleveland will be playing the likes of KC and Tampa Bay. The Indians have a pretty good shot at ripping the division from the Sox. Man, this could be yet another tragedy for Chicago baseball.

The Yanks play at 4 so the Fenway faithful will know early if they can widen the lead, lose ground, or thread water.

[Jedieb]

And the historic White Sox collapse continues. Their lead is down to 3.5. If they go into their Monday game with Cleveland with the lead down to 2.5 you'll hear Chicago sphenchter(sp?) muscles contracting all the way on the East and West coasts of the United States. The Red Sox and Yankees each got great pitching performances to win close games today. Everybody in the AL is gaining on the White Sox right now. I'm tellling you, they choke the division away and they may just end up missing the post season alltogether. The Yankees are tied with Cleveland in the loss column right now. So with that extra game to play they could be tied with the Indians instead of a .5 game back. And the Red Sox are what, 2 games behind Chicago?

Just wait, the last series of the season will see the Yanks and Sox go 2-1 with the winner taking the division and the loser grabbing the WC. Meanwhile, the Indians will pummel the White Sox and Chicago will once again curse the day Doubleday invented the game of baseball.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cleveland is dangerous, I think they will pass the White Sox and I am almost willing to bet they make it to the World Series. Watch them be the surprise team of this season.

[JMK]

This could be an all-time choke job. What a collapse. I hope it follows through because I think I may have predicted Cleveland to win that division at the beginning of the year.

[CMJ]

I hope the White Sox can hold on. No one deserves to blow a lead like that.

Well, unless they wear pinstripes. :smokin

[Jedieb]

That's just evil, pure Sox evil!!!!!!!!!!!

[Jedieb]

Damn, the bullpen gave up an insurance run in the bottom of the 8th that ended up costing the Yanks the game, 6-5. But, the A's are pasting the Sox right now which means the A's and Sox will have split their series. The Indians finished their routing of the Royals today with another blowout. The White Sox are starting up right now and you know they're watching that scoreboard and sweating.

[Jedieb]

Bad day for the AL East, both Cleveland and the White Sox won. The Angles are up 3-0 on Detroit so NY and Boston could end up losing WC ground on just about everybody.

[jjwr]

I swear every time the Yanks lose the Sox lose too, you would think just once in the past month they could manage to padd that lead just a little bit.

WC is going to be very interesting, can't wait to see how it all plays out.

[Jedieb]

My Dad was at the Stadium last night for the Marlins debacle. For those that missed it, Willis took a shut out into the 9th, and then the Marlins imploded and Philly scored 10 runs in the 9th. My father almost ran out of the stands to attack McKeon. They're both about the same age but I'm pretty sure my Papi could take him. :)

[JMK]

I saw that. That was just a complete meltdown on the part of the Marlins. How is giving that many runs up even possible in one inning - especially the 9th?

Off topic, but this has been a great week of baseball watching for me. Tonight's Phils/Marlins game is the 8th game this week that I've taken in on tv. :rollin

[Jedieb]

Cleveland @ Chicago 8:05 PM
This is it boys and girls, the biggest series of the season for both these teams. With a sweep the Indians would find themselves only a half game back of the reeling White Sox. Chicago's saving grace is that they have a 4 game lead in the loss column and that gives them control of whether this is really a 4 or 3 game lead. That's small consolation for a team that gone 3-7 while the Indians have won game after game after game. This could be one of the greatest collapses in baseball history and after suffering through one last October I'll be glad to see someone else share the misery. Either way, one of these teams is coming back to the AL WC pack. We'll see if Boston (v.Tampa), New York (v. Baltimore), or Oakland (v. Minn.) can take advantage. Despite the last sweep, I'm glad the Yankees will have no more of the D-Rays.

[CMJ]

I don't think either team will sweep. My current prediction Indians take 2 of 3. Which will probably be enough to help them coast into the last series of the season with the lead.

THAT'S gonna be the big series.

[JMK]

So now balco Barry says he has to drop 28 pounds before next season because he 'wants his legs to be strong'.

Translation: "I've got to get off these roids before I get busted. Then I have to learn how to play baseball again without looking like the stay puft marshmallow man."

[Jedieb]

If he really is dropping the weight because of the 'roids then he must be playing with fire right now. I'd love to see him get busted as much as anyone, but he probably is dropping the weight because of the knee. Either way, I think his power numbers are finally going to drop. But man, would I love to see his name come up under than 10 day suspension.

[JMK]

I really think this comes together way to conveniently for him. Yeah he's got a bum knee, but's it been a bad knee for years. Why didn't he take care of it when he was in his mid-30's as opposed to his early 40's? It's not like he's going to play another 5 years. There can't be an preservation there. He's got one, 2 years max left in him. And now that there's tougher drug testing he's going to drop the weight to save his knee? I don't buy it. It's a pre-emptive explanation for the magical size loss we're about to witness from him. God I hope he gets popped for roids, but then again, I wonder if MLB would even let that info out. That would just be devastating, even if it's something we all know took place anyway. It would be WAY bigger than Palmeiro, and at least Raffy had more of an element of surprise.

[Jedieb]

1
Better take care of business boys because we just did. Thank you Bubba Crosby! :crack

[Jedieb]

Ortiz is just a freak. There should be a constitutional amendment banning teams from pitching to him in the late innings. But unfortunately for the Sox, the D-Rays got an insurance run in the bottom of the 8th. It's up to Manny.

[Jedieb]

:crack How do ya like those D-Rays now Boston? :evil

Now we have to wait and see if Cleveland can come back. Either way, we're making up ground baby!

[CMJ]

Well, I can't accept we'll lose 2 out of 3. I'm not worried, yet(though I am concerned).

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by CMJ
Well, I can't accept we'll lose 2 out of 3. I'm not worried, yet(though I am concerned).
I spent the first 4/5 of the season saying that exact same thing everytime we faced off against Tampa and look what happened to us. Meanwhile, the Indians just took the lead in the top of the 8th but the Sox have a man in scoring position in the bottom of the 8th.

[Jedieb]

Hey, I just saw a train wreck, and it's called The Chicago White Sox! For the last two months the best teams in the AL have been the Indians, the A's, the Yanks, and the Red Sox. During that time the White Sox have been nothing more than a .500 team. That's IT. If the Red Sox had played as poorly as Chicago the Yankees would be in first place by 5 or more games right now. The Red Sox are hanging tough, the White Sox aren't. They're imploding and it's an embarrassment. I'm telling you, if they get swept these next two games the last series at the Jake may not even mean anything.

[CMJ]

That was a back and forth game. I'd be surprised if they just packed it in. They'll probably take 1 of the next two.

Hell the Red Sox aren't looking very good right now. Our pitchers all look tired. So the other Sox might REALLY have to fall off for us to pass them if we end up losing out to the Yanks.

[jjwr]

The White Sox look like they're done, course the Red Sox better hope they are the way they are playing.

I'm telling ya they need to dump Manny in the off-season. I don't know about you guys but watching the game last night I was just hoping someone would get on in front of Ortiz, I have no doubt the result would have been the same with a runner on. Problem is with 2 outs it was down to Manny and I figured the game was as good as over. As clutch as Ortiz is Manny is the total opposite. The hard part will be finding a big bat to replace him.

[JMK]

The White Sox just have to split these last 2. The Indians can't keep up this torrid pace until the end. What are they now 13 wins out of 14? That won't last. I still hope the collapse ensues.

As for the Yanks/Sox, they're a half game out and if you're a Sox fan, you know what's coming. The Yankees are getting their act together and the Red Sox pitching staff is almost out of gas, and out of options. If they hang on it will be a minor miracle.

[jjwr]

Sox bats are finally waking up!

Ortiz and Manny are both 4 for 4 with 2 HR each in the 5th inning!

Course the Yanks are winning too but right now the Sox just need to worry about actually winning a few games and getting on a roll.

[JMK]

Well that's the advantage of being #1. All you have to do is win your own games and you don't have to worry about the other teams.

Way to go Papi and Man Ram. :)

[Jedieb]

Boston wins, NY wins, and it looks like Chicago may actually halt their slide, provided they can hold on in the ninth. Thursday is going to be a big day in the AL race. The Red Sox get the day off while the Yanks make up the 1/2 game. Their records will be all even from that day until the end of the season, no more 1/2 games to worry about.

Cleveland has a man on first with no one out. Here we go again......

[CMJ]

White Sox win in walk off fashion.

[Jedieb]

The way the White Sox won that game has to give them a little boost. They came back 3 different times. They can use this win to stop the bleeding and hold back the charging Indians. That loss also lets the Yanks and Red Sox draw even in the loss column with Cleveland. Petite won last night so the Astros are up 2 in the WC.

[JMK]

The White Sox potentially saved their season with that win last night. They're not out of trouble yet, but at 3.5 games up on Cleveland, they control their destiny again.

[jjwr]

The Indians needed to sweep the series to have a real shot at taking the division. Huge win by the White Sox, that win alone may keep them in it through the end.

[JMK]

One thing's for sure, if the Indians keep it up, but fail to catch the White Sox, there will be 2 teams from that division for sure. The winner of the AL east will probably be the only team from that division to make it in.

[Jedieb]

Johnson and Rivera shut down the O's and the D-Rays are pouring it on in the bottom of the 8th. GO TAMPA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!:crack

[Jedieb]

Oritz is leading off the inning. Bad news for the Sox because even after he hits his homer they'll be down by 2. :evil

[Jedieb]

FIRST PLACE BABY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:headbash

And Cleveland is pasting the White Sox 6-0. They'll leave Chicago 2.5 back but Chicago is still ahead 3 in the loss column which means they can put their lead back up to 3 when the Indians get a night off. Sweet, sweet, playoff races.

[JMK]

And I think after the win tonight Cleveland will assume the WC. Things are not looking good for the Sox. The bullpen is suffering collapse after collapse, the starting rotation is questionable and the Yankees are continuing to play like 200 million dollars.

[Jedieb]

The bullpen crushed you tonight. The Sox gave up 5 runs to the D-Rays in the bottom of the 8th. They had that game in hand. We're sending you the Orioles after sweeping them. Baltimore has lost 6 of 7. You'll either keep pummeling them or they'll bounce back on you. We get Toronto next and then Baltimore again. The White Sox have a tough 4 game set with the Twins while Cleveland has 4 games with the Royals. Things just aren't getting any easier for the White Sox.

[Jedieb]

Some notes for the AL MVP race. Over the last few games A-Rod has some made some big defensive plays for the Yanks. The other night he helped turn a key DP in the ninth. Tonight, with the tying run on 3rd, he made a diving stop and gunned the runner out, ending the inning. If he does win the Gold Glove for 3rd that's going to garner him some extra MVP votes.

[jjwr]

To me if your making 20 Million a year your team shouldn't be bailed out by guys named Bubba. A-Rod is way too quiet in the clutch for my tastes.

Speaking of which I was just realizing why the current Yanks aren't really bothering me that much. Unlike their beginning of the year incarnation this team actually looks like it has some merit. No name guys are making the plays, guys they called or traded for. Not your typical recent Yankee $$$ signing but actual ballers. Their $100 Million rotation is in shambles and being held up by the likes of Small & Chacon. Maybe this will teach George to go back to the owners box where he belongs and let Cashman & Torre build real teams like they did back in the 90's as its obviously working some now.

[JMK]

I'd be shocked if George let other take the reigns as far as personnel goes. His ego is way too big for that, but if he has any baseball brains at all he'd realize that he's only dragging the team down long-term like he did in the 70's-80's.

[Jedieb]

Enjoy!
http://espnradio.espn.go.com/espnradio/index#

Listen to those songs and decide who the AL MVP should be!

[JMK]

The lies continue for Raffy, if this report is true:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9437465/

In summary, he says a teammate (unidentified in the report) gave him an 'unknown' substance. Yeah, sure. Unknown my rear end.

Unknown player: "Hey Raffy, take this unknown substance, it will make you much stronger".

Raffy: "What do you mean by 'unknown'? Should I really put it into my body if I don't know what it is? What if it's dangerous?"

Unknown player: "Bah, don't be a little girl. What's the worse that can happen? Sure, these little pills may kill you, but probably not, since what you don't know won't kill you. I prefer the ignorance is bliss route."

Raffy: "Sold! You don't have to twist my arm! What sound reasoning!"

What a chump. :shootin

[jjwr]

As many have said before, no way athletes at this level would ever take anything that they didn't know what it was, especially one who had been around for as long as Raffy. The guy was caught and is only making himself look worse and worse.

And on the same note Bonds hit another last night, 4 homers in his last 12 AB's...the guy sickens me.

[Jedieb]

So not only did he cheat, but he ratted somebody out as well? Can things get any worse for this guy?

He should have said he thought it was using a rival brand of male enhancement medication.

"Senator, I thought the pills would only make my shriveled penis bigger, not my muscles!"

"Mr. Plameiro, how did your penis get shriveled in the first place?"

"Oh, from using steroids."

[Jedieb]

Magic Numbers! Every division leader has them. With teams having 10-11 games left, here's where all the leaders stand:

AL
White Sox 9
Angles 9
Yankees 11

NL
St. Louis - Clinched
Padres 7
Atlanta 6

Kind of pathetic that the next team to clinch a playoff spot could be the Padres, isn't it?:x

[jjwr]

Imagine how the Phillies feel knowing they could lose a playoff spot just because the Padres are in a different division.

[JMK]

What a waste of a playoff spot. Do they even have a speck of a chance to upset whoever they play? Probably the Braves or Cardinals? Maybe the Braves because they just don't know how to win in October, but they'll get embarassed in St. Louis.

[Jedieb]

Yanks had a big 6th inning and have scored again in the 7th. It looks like Mussina's elbow is better, he's only given up 1 run. His last 2 starts were pretty craptacular. If he can regain his form the Yankees may actually have a rotation that can do some damage in the playoffs. Meanwhile, Cleveland is up 5-1 and the White Sox and Twins are in a tight game, 0-0 in the 6th.

More bad news for Boston. It looks like Foulke is officially done for the season. That bullpen was hurting as it was, his return could have given it the lift it needed to make a playoff run.

[JMK]

Yep, Foulke is done.

And Cleveland blew the whole lead. Against the Royals. 5-5 now.

:x

[JMK]

If Raffy was a borderline HOF'er in light of his suspension for roids, he's definetly out now.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2169007

Basically he ratted out Tejada as the guy who gave him the juice.
Predictably Tejada is in shock and has denied the whole thing, saying he gave him a B-12 injection. Tejada has been apparently cleared of any wrong doing in this.

I have one question: Why do players constantly need other players to inject them with things? Why don't they just go to the team doctor if all they want is a B-12 shot?

It smells fishy in here (because of the 'B-12') and it also smells like a rat (because that's what Raffy is).

Thanks for the memories Raffy, see you never.

Especially at Cooperstown.

[jjwr]

Yup he's done, time to head to Mexico or something and play down there for a while. At least he can use his roids legally.

[JMK]

Now there's all kinds of conflicting reports. Raffy denies ever mentioning Tejada's name. Of course he denies it.

Here's another good question: If Palmeiro asked Tejada for a B-12 shot, why would his name come up at all at any kind of hearing? Why would a B-12 shot, which has been proven to be nothing but B-12, be responsible for a positive steroid test? What the hell is he doing?

Some notes of interest:
What do Giambi, Bonds, Palmeiro and McGwire all have in common? They all wore #25. Probably means nothing, but still sort of interesting. Maybe ballplayers communicate with one another using a series of numbers, something like an illuminati sect. ;)
Also, B-12, according to Canseco's book is a code word among major leaguers for certain steroids. Makes you wonder, doesn't it?

[Jedieb]

The Yanks have opened the bottom of the first with homers from Jeter and Cano. Bet that makes the scoreboard at Fenway look just awful. :evil

[sirdizzy]

Well everyone won tonight so it just takes it down to 9 games to go (8 for cleveland).

And funny enough a team that is out of it is making a big splash (or should i say bellyflop) in the Red Sox/Yanks finale: Baltimore. They have now lost 5 straight games to the Sox/Yankies with 6 more games to go. I guess as long as your playing the orioles you got a chance.

[Jedieb]

AL League Standings
White Sox -
Cleveland 1.5
Yankees 2
Boston 3
Angles 4
Oakland 8

First thing I notice is that Oakland is out of the WC hunt. Their only hope is for the Angles to collapse so they can get the division. Even if that happened, neither of those teams will figure in the WC spot. That leaves Chicago, Cleveland, NY, and Boston fighting it out for the last 3 playoff spots. Boston still has a shot at the WC since they're only 1.5 behind the White Sox. That half game that Cleveland has is in the win column. Which means Boston can win on Cleveland's next off night and close to within 1 game of the Indians. The same edge goes to the White Sox. If they can win on Cleveland's off night their lead would jump to 2 or fall to 1.

The Blue Jays jumped all over Wright and put up 4 runs in the first. The Yankees came back with 2 on an A-Rod HR but Wright might be in trouble in the second after a lead off single. Yep, he just got tagged for two and has been yanked for Small. 7-3 Blue Jays with 2 outs. This one is going to be a grind for the Yanks.

[JMK]

The Jays just did the Sox a favor, now let's see the Red Sox tie the division up again.

[Jedieb]

The Yanks had the bases loaded with 2 outs in the bottom of the 8th but Giambi stuck out. That was the ball game right there. The Red Sox are up 2-0 on Boston early. I think Chicago and Cleveland are both 7PM starts.

[Lance Casey]

And the Royals just upset the Indians. Even though it's only one game, it is big in the wild card with NYY and Bos winning today.

[Jedieb]

That was pretty surprising. When the Indians tied it in the top of the 9th I thought the Royals were done, but they pulled it out. Both the Yanks and Sox pick up a game on the red hot tribe. We'll see if the White Sox can take advantage of this tonight.

[JMK]

If they do that pretty much seals the division for them.

[Jedieb]

The White Sox won. That puts them up 2.5 and they can make it 3 later in the week on the Indians off night.

[JMK]

That ought to do it then. It will pretty much take some more poor ball from the Sox all week coupled with strong Indians ball and a sweep at the end of the week.

[sirdizzy]

I tell you it will be Baltimore that hands the division to the yanks after they lose their 11 straight game to the yankees/red sox. I have never seen a team roll over like the orioles are doing right now.

[JMK]

Unless the White Sox somehow find a way to blow it. But your point still stands, the O's went into the tank BIG TIME. Sosa has been pathetic this season, their pitching only lasted about 80 games, Ponson screwed himself, and the team, and of course, our good friend Raffy has been there to lead the way.

[Jedieb]

The O's have lost so many games that expecting another sweep, especially a 4 game set at Camden Yards may be too much. But the Sox are facing a below .500 team that has done well against them this year. Luckily for them they've got the rest of the season at home. They could easily go 6-1 down the stretch. I bet the big series at Fenway will start with one of these teams up by a game. A perfect world would give us a 1 game playoff for the last playoff spot. How sweet would that be?

[JMK]

That would be awesome.

I can see the headline now though:

Bellhorn comes back to haunt Sox with pinch-hit HR in 9th.

[Jedieb]

All my nightmarish headlines have "BIG PAPI" in WWII sized letters.

[CMJ]

No one game playoff. We wrap it up in Fenway.

[Jedieb]

Uhhhh, what baseball post?:rollin

[CMJ]

Nice baseball post man. :x

[JMK]

Then we'd better hope were up by at least one if were to wrap it up in Boston. ;)

[CMJ]

Nah, we can be down 2. We're sweeping the Yankees. They won't be able to compete if we need must wins ala last year in the ALCS.

(How's that for Yankee like confidence)

;)

[Jedieb]

They'll be a sweep alright. Just like there was in 78. :evil

[Jedieb]

It's raining in Baltimore right now. A rainout would make this last road week that much more brutal. Johnson is scheduled to pitch tonight. If he has to go tomorrow that means his weekend start in Boston will get pushed back a day, or he'd have to go on one day's fewer rest. Boston really has the edge with 7 straight at home. :cry

[Jedieb]

The Red Sox game has been postponed. They're still hoping to get the game in at Baltimore. I really think if one team has to squeeze in a double header this week they'll be at a disadvantage.

[Jedieb]

The hapless Tigers have stunned the White Sox with a bottom of the 9th HR. That cuts the Sox lead to 2 games. The Yankees and O's are scoreless in the third. C'mon, gimme a quick score and let this game go 5........

[Jedieb]

Giambi and A-Rod RULE!!!!!!!!! 6-0 in the 4th. One more inning and it's legal. Please, please, please, please:angel

[JMK]

Just as soon as you think the White Sox can breathe a little easier they lay another egg.

[Jedieb]

The game is in the books!!!!!!!!!!! :crack

Now, if we blow a 6-0 lead with Johnson on the mound to the Bad News O's we deserve to lose out for the rest of the season.

[JMK]

You could put me on the mound and take away the other 8 fielders and the O's still wouldn't win.

[CMJ]

I pulled an Eb. ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
Amazing comeback by Tennesse. I thought they were dead in the water.


Wrong thread CMJ :p

[Jedieb]

The Sox won their early game so they're now dead even with the Yankees and Cleveland. And all 3 of them are just 2 behind the White Sox for the best record in the AL.

[JMK]

White Sox are down, Cleveland is down to the D-Rays, Yanks are down, and the Red Sox are up. :)

[Jedieb]

Shef hits a GS, SHEF HITS A GS WITH 2 DOWN!!! :crack

[CMJ]

White Sox rally in the 9th comes up short. Red Sox and Jays tied. Yankees behind again 9-7. Indians losing.

[Jedieb]

Yanks middle relief walked in one run after another, it's only the middle of the game, but it's bad, 13-7. 3 out of 4 AL contenders look like they're going down. If Toronto pulls it out all 4 would go down in surprising fashion. If the Yanks and Boston can win their games they'd make up ground on the White Sox and take the WC lead. Man, this week is going to give me an ulcer.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Crazy week ahead of us it looks like.

[CMJ]

The Braves clinched tonight. Six more spots left.

The Indians just come up short in their rally. Eb and went nuts - you'd think we were Rays fanatics.

[Jedi Master Carr]

So San Diego and Anaheim should clinch next?

[Jedi Master Carr]

It looks like if the Angels win tonight they clinch. They need one win I think to do it. Oakland has to beat Anaheim all 3 games left and really get lucky. San Diego is up 3 but are losing to the Giants they could blow their division. The NL wild card is Houston's to lose but I wouldn't count out the Phillies. The other two races are going to come down to the last three games, most likely.

[jjwr]

Sox are now down by 2 in the 9th but runners are threatening, they need to get this last out, top of the order in the 9th so they'll have a shot at it.

[JMK]

They went down in order in the 9th with 3 weak at bats. They looked like they just wanted to get the day over with. They saw the Yankees losing and figured 'ah screw it'. Close to 7 hours of ball in one day is enough for anyone, especially after 150+ games.

[jjwr]

Yup, they were definetly lagging in the later innings. Under normal circumstances I think they would have ended yesterday with a 1 game lead.

All the more drama and excitment for the weekend.

[Jedieb]

2 games to go for the Sox and Yanks before the big showdown. Even if either team has a break down they'll have a shot at the division with a sweep. 2 game lead and you need to win just 1. A 1 game lead and you can find yourself in a one game playoff if you lose the series 2-1. If both teams go in dead even someone is scheduling tee times after that second or final game. The Yanks and Red Sox blew a golden WC opportunity last night with Cleveland losing. The Indians have to win today and tomorrow to have a shot at their division. Even if they win just once, they'd be able to force a one game playoff with a sweep at the Jake. Bottom line, both of the series are going to count. Somewhere, the baseball scheduling gods are smiling while my primary physician is worried about my blood pressure.

[Jedieb]

Last night was a perfect reason why I don't get giddy with excitement or awe when the Braves win yet another division title. They clinched at home last night their record 14th consecutive division title. And the home town response? Atlanta drew only 25,000. That's ridiculous. I don't give a ratt's butt that it was a Tuesday game, it was still a night game and a historic night. What have the Yanks and Sox done all year? The Sox have sold out every game at home this year and the Yanks drew something like 3 million this year(might be 4, I'm not sure). The last series in the Bronx saw over 50,000 for each game. Braves fans deserve the playoff futility they're sure to receive yet AGAIN this year.

Go Tampa Bay!!! Both the Yanks and Sox should be rooting for the Devil Rays this week. If the D-Rays can pull out a game or two the Yanks and Sox may BOTH find themselves in the playoffs. We all know that's what FOX is praying for.

[CMJ]

I felt really bad about Maddux not being able to get the win. That streak is one of the most impressive in baseball history.

[Jedieb]

Bang, bang, two deep shots, a triple and a HR, off Arroyo in the first. He can still settle down, but the Blue Jays are tagging him hard right now. Yanks fail to score in their 1st at bats in Baltimore.

[JMK]

Even if the Sox get in you gotta be more than worried. The pitching staff is totally gassed. Schilling looks like he won't be able to put it all together and Wells is bound to drop from a bad back any time now. We don't even have to discuss the bullpen.

[Jedieb]

Indians lose.
Red Sox going down.
White Sox win.
Yanks win.

If the 5 run Blue Jay lead holds the Red Sox will be in a tie for the WC with the Indians. They've got 2 men on with 1 out in the bottom of the 8th, so they still have life. Tampa, Baltimore, Detroit, and the Blue Jays aren't rolling over. What a week of baseball!

[CMJ]

One game down with 4 to go. Three vs NY in Fenway. I'm not gonna panic. Especially since the tribe seems to have hit the skids.

[jjwr]

Sox sucked last night, in a 5 game season you can't lay a egg like that. Quite a few chances with runners in scoring position but could never get anything going.

[JMK]

And last night's action also helped to dictate the MVP race. Ortiz is batting .125 in his past 7 games, and the Sox have fallen out of first, while A-Rod has been hitting well over .300 as his team overtook first. It's still going to come to this weekend, with the division winner's team getting the MVP but so far A-Rod is 2 up on Ortiz in my opinion - gold glove caliber 3rd base, as well as being bigger down the stretch run.

[JMK]

Red Sox get some bullpen help:
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2175951
Stanton could be a very big addition for this team, especially for this weekend. Keep your fingers crossed.

[CMJ]

Every division but the AL East has now been decided with Chicago's victory today.

AL Central
Chicago White Sox

AL West
Anaheim Angels


NL East
Atlanta Braves

NL Central
St Louis Cardinals

NL West
San Diego Padres

Three more spots left.

[Jedieb]

Sox 96-63
NY 93-65
Boston 92-66
Cleveland 92-66

After tonight, we'll see if NY has a chance to overtake or tie the White Sox for the best record in the AL. The Red Sox and Cleveland can tie Chicago if they both won out and Cleveland swept. That would leave the Yanks out of the playoffs. A lot of scenarios left, but they all end with the White Sox in the playoffs right now.

[JMK]

Tonight is basically a must-win for the Sox if they want to remain in contention for the division. They are already down 2-0 to the Jays and the Yankees are up 4-0 on the O's right now. They don't want to have to sweep the Yankees over the weekend to take the division. Gotta have tonight's game, period.

Ortiz struck out in the first if anyone wants to know.

[Jedieb]

If the Red Sox miss out on the playoffs it'll be the Blue Jays that will have done them in. We had our AL East celler dweller demons to deal with last week, the D-Rays. The Yanks stepped up and won that last series 2-1. The Red Sox have got to step up and at least manage a split with their demon.

Yanks 5
O's Nada
5th

Blue Jays 2
Sox 1
5th

[JMK]

3-1 now. If the Sox can't manage a split AT HOME, where they have the best record in the majors, then they pretty much don't deserve to make the playoffs. And even a split isn't good enough. Not when, like Eb said, the Yanks beat their demon when it mattered most. The best teams play their best when it matters, and right now it matters, and the Sox just look totally flat. There's no sense of urgency, and if there is that sense in the dugout, there's no will to do anything about it.

[Jedieb]

If the Yanks win tonight I believe they'll be 15-3 down the stretch. That's as hot as any team in the AL, even the Indians. The Sox are down 4-1 and it could have been worse, the Jays had the bases loaded with only 1 out. The Boston bats have got to wake up or every game at Fenway this weekend will be an elimination game. Which will give me horrible ALCS flashbacks. :(

[JMK]

4-3 Jays right now. Manny hits a 2 run shot. They're back in it but still down and they're running out of race track. Top of 7 right now, Jays have a runner at 2nd.

[JMK]

BIG PAPI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

4-4 game, bottom of the 8th, 0 out, Manny at the plate.

[Jedieb]

I thought the Sox were going to blow it wide open, but the Jays got out of it. Ortiz, once again, saved the Sox. They're going into the 9th all tied up. The Yanks and Indians have taken care of business so the Sox need to win.

[Jedieb]

Ortiz tied the game in the 8th, and then he won it in the 9th with an RBI single. He's single handedly keeping the Sox in the race. Unreal.

[JMK]

I've said it once tonight, but since one good turn deserves another...


BIG PAPI!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!

Comes through in the 9th, and sets up a dream weekend for baseball fans!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Big win, I am curious who has the tie breaker if Boston and New York are tied and they both make the playoffs? I know they don't need a playoff in that scenerio. Too bad it isn't still possible for The White sox to tie up with the Indians and we could have a four team playoff :p

[CMJ]

What's that cliche again?

I'd take a bullet for David Ortiz. :love

The man is nearing God status.

[sirdizzy]

update as a forgot 3 way tie scenario

There is no tie breaker if the series ends up tied they will play a tie breaker game monday at yankee stadium (the yanks won homefield for the playoff tiebreaker game like 3 weeks ago).

So this is how it falls out if the Yanks win 1 game and lose 2, their will be a playoff game monday in New York winner gets the division.

If the Yanks win 2 and lose 1, the Yanks win the division and the sox have to vie with Cleveland for the last playoff spot

If the Yanks lose all 3 games the Sox win the Division and its the Yankees who vie with Cleveland for the last spot.

So no matter how you look at it, advantage Yankees

now since the Yanks lead the Division series between Boston and themselves 9-7 if they win 1 game, lose 2 and cleveland also wins 2 and loses 1 and they end up in a 3 way tie, Yanks win the division and Boston and Cleveland have a tie breaker game monday in Cleveland for the last playoff spot


oh and to answer Carrs question if the yanks and sox both make it and are tied, the division goes to the yanks via the better series record

[sirdizzy]

I think I got that right feel free to correct me if I'm wrong as baseball tie breakers are confusing and ludicrous to the say the best

[Jedieb]

If the Red Sox win 2, lose 1, NY and Boston will have to play a one game playoff for the division and the game would be in the Bronx. Chacon would probably start, I'm not sure who the Red Sox will start. dizzy's got the scenarios laid out perfectly. What Cleveland does is key for the Sox and Yanks. I think they have a big WC edge with Chicago already clinching the division. Ozzie G. can babble all he wants about playing to win, the White Sox can afford to lose this weekend and rest some key guys, that MATTERS. Relievers will get rested, starters won't be asked to go deep into games, etc. At home, Cleveland should be able to win 2 out of 3 or sweep. That puts a lot of pressure on the Yanks and Sox.

Tonight on ESPN
NY - Wang
Boston - Wells

Saturday
NY - Johnson
Boston - Wakefield

Sunday
NY - Mussina
Boston - Schilling

I think the Yankees have the edge in these first two match ups. When he's been healthy, Wang has been their most consistent starter. A month ago, Wakefield would have been a clear favorite over Johnson, but over the last couple of weeks Randy Johnson has finally started to resemble his old dominant self. On Sunday, the edge goes to Boston. Both Mussina and Schilling have struggled over the last month, but Schilling is Schilling and he lives for games like this. I'd never count him out.

[JMK]

You're dead on. Resting starters matters big time at this point. Especially for the White Sox who have been under such stress for the past 2 weeks. The Indians have a huge intangible edge this weekend. 2 of 3 should be a piece of cake if they have anything left in the tank that is. Should that occur, the Sox basically need to sweep the Yankees just to get in the playoffs - as winner of the East.

[CMJ]

Things don't look good on paper for the Red Sox, but I don't care. We're winning the series. :smokin

[JMK]

You'd better be right, you're filling me up with all kinds of confidence here!

[CMJ]

Believe me, it's wierd for me having this kind of confidence in the Red Sox. But I do.

[Doc Milo]

Conspiracy Theory!

The White Sox might look at the Yankees and Red Sox as it's biggest threats. If Cleveland sweeps, they are the Wild Card, no matter what happens with the Yankees and Red Sox series. The White Sox may just see that as their best way of eliminating one of its two biggest threats -- let the Indians sweep the weekend, and either the Red Sox or the Yankees are out...

[jjwr]

Yup, right now the White Sox really have nothing to lose but they'll still play. They don't want to rest everyone and have their guys cold going into the playoffs but they may not do certain things they would otherwise do.

To me the MVP race is decided this weekend in Boston, it all comes down to how they play this series.

Ortiz has been huge and is the only reason the Sox are where they are while A-Rod has been a key part of a bigger machine. Papi is Clutch while A-Rod plays D. All of these things cancel out, whoever has the bigger series will take the MVP.

[Jedieb]

Red Sox optimism.... it's Armageddon people, the end of the friggin' world.o_O

How big does that rain out seem now? It doesn't guarantee squat, but it sure as hell didn't help the Sox bullpen this weekend. It also may have cost you a win. Late season double headers are brutal to sweep.

[CMJ]

I think the White Sox will try and win 1 just so they are assured of homefield throughout.

[Jedieb]

I think the White Sox are honestly going to try to win every game this weekend. What they won't do is kill themselves in the process. Relivers aren't going to pitch very long, starters will only go 6 or 7, and if someone is banged up they may get a day off. I think that some of those White Sox bats are going up to the plate with nothing to lose. Not having any pressure on a hitter can be wonderful. Guys may be swinging for the fences because the games mean squat to them. It's live BP.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Of course the Indians should have swept the Devil Rays and they couldn't, I wouldn't be shocked to see them lose two games to Chicago. Also I disagree about who is the greatest threat to the White Sox. I think the Angels are, they have the best pitching of the other 3 teams, and can be very dangerous like they proved a few years ago. If they get up on you, you are finished with that bullpen they have.

[JMK]

Well they're the team no one is talking about. They may be the favorite in the AL, but they're out west, so they don't matter. ;)

[CMJ]

Basically, I think the Angels would beat the Yankees or Red Sox. I think the White Sox would be destroyed by the Yanks or Boston. But I think Chicago would beat Anaheim.

So yeah...it's gonna be fun.