Hurricane Katrina

[Jeseth Cloak]

The hurricane wiped the power out on most of the homes in my general area, most of the streets are flooded or blocked off due to heavy debri. Honestly, it wasn't that bad a of a hurricane... but 1.7 million people lost power in the South Florida area, and I have no clue when my power will be back up. I'm posting from my friends house (he still has power, luckily). I know some people might be waiting on me... so now you know what the delay is.

Hope all you other FL people got through it without any problems. ^_^;



http://www.sw-fans.net/photopost/data/504/4263Florida_Postcard123.bmp

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm fine, execpt my AC decided to stop working :sigh

[CMJ]

Katrina is getting her act together. The upper Gulf Coast f rom the Fl/Alabama border to the TX/LA border should be watching her very closely.

[Jeseth Cloak]

Quick update - Florida Power and Light notified me (along with most other people in my area) that power most likely won't be back up until Tuesday (at the earliest) and Friday at the latest - this means my posting will become a little sporadic. Aside from posting from the university near my house, I don't have much internet access. =/

The Jedi purge thread should still go on as planned and I'll continue to keep up with all my other RPs - so be a little patient if my responses come a few days apart. I'm also in the process of moving so... after Friday, I won't be on for another week. The phone company up there needs me to be there to get in and set up the line. -_-;

[Jedi Master Carr]

New Orleans is under the gun right now. Landfall is expected somewhere between there and Biloxi. It is not looking good right now, I was watching CNN about it, it would be a nightmare if it gave New Orleans a direct hit. It would make Andrew look like a squall.

[CMJ]

Hell, it would make Galveston '00 look like nothing casualty wise. You could expect at least 15 thousand dead if NO was hit dead on by a Category 4. More like 50+.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know that is what I heard the guy on CNN (he works for N.O Emergency personnel) said 44k and the city would be under water for 6 months. Those numbers are shocking. Hopefully for its sake it will move more to the East and then the city can start working on building a bigger water wall.

[CMJ]

The 1AM CDT advisory upgraded her to a Category 4 with 145mph sustained winds. Pressure is comperable to Hugo's. New Orleans called the first mandatory evacuation in the history of the city at 1:30CDT.

Game on folks.

[Sasseeri Reeouurra]

Wow - will be very interesting to see what happens.

Now I'm going to have to try to pry my husband off of Sportscenter and onto the weather channel. ;)

[CMJ]

Heard a talking head say damage could be 150 BILLION dollars should she hit NO head on.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Katrinia is a 5 now, 160 MPH WOW, this could be very very bad.

[CMJ]

Pressure 907mbs...lower than Camille. Winds were upped to 175mph.

[Morgan Evanar]

There isn't going to be a thing left of NOLA. :(

[CMJ]

Chilling.



Urgent Weather Message for Orleans, LA
Top of pageTable of contents for Orleans, LA
WWUS74 KLIX 281550
NPWLIX
URGENT - WEATHER MESSAGE
NATIONAL WEATHER SERVICE NEW ORLEANS LA
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005


DEVASTATING DAMAGE EXPECTED

HURRICANE KATRINA
A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

MOST OF THE AREA WILL BE UNINHABITABLE FOR WEEKS...PERHAPS LONGER. AT
LEAST ONE HALF OF WELL CONSTRUCTED HOMES WILL HAVE ROOF AND WALL
FAILURE. ALL GABLED ROOFS WILL FAIL...LEAVING THOSE HOMES SEVERELY
DAMAGED OR DESTROYED.

THE MAJORITY OF INDUSTRIAL BUILDINGS WILL BECOME NON FUNCTIONAL.
PARTIAL TO COMPLETE WALL AND ROOF FAILURE IS EXPECTED. ALL WOOD
FRAMED LOW RISING APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL BE DESTROYED. CONCRETE
BLOCK LOW RISE APARTMENTS WILL SUSTAIN MAJOR DAMAGE...INCLUDING SOME
WALL AND ROOF FAILURE.

HIGH RISE OFFICE AND APARTMENT BUILDINGS WILL SWAY DANGEROUSLY...A
FEW TO THE POINT OF TOTAL COLLAPSE. ALL WINDOWS WILL BLOW OUT.

AIRBORNE DEBRIS WILL BE WIDESPREAD...AND MAY INCLUDE HEAVY ITEMS SUCH
AS HOUSEHOLD APPLIANCES AND EVEN LIGHT VEHICLES. SPORT UTILITY
VEHICLES AND LIGHT TRUCKS WILL BE MOVED. THE BLOWN DEBRIS WILL CREATE
ADDITIONAL DESTRUCTION. PERSONS...PETS...AND LIVESTOCK EXPOSED TO THE
WINDS WILL FACE CERTAIN DEATH IF STRUCK.

POWER OUTAGES WILL LAST FOR WEEKS...AS MOST POWER POLES WILL BE DOWN
AND TRANSFORMERS DESTROYED. WATER SHORTAGES WILL MAKE HUMAN SUFFERING
INCREDIBLE BY MODERN STANDARDS.

THE VAST MAJORITY OF NATIVE TREES WILL BE SNAPPED OR UPROOTED. ONLY
THE HEARTIEST WILL REMAIN STANDING...BUT BE TOTALLY DEFOLIATED. FEW
CROPS WILL REMAIN. LIVESTOCK LEFT EXPOSED TO THE WINDS WILL BE
KILLED.

AN INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IS ISSUED WHEN SUSTAINED WINDS NEAR
HURRICANE FORCE...OR FREQUENT GUSTS AT OR ABOVE HURRICANE FORCE...ARE
CERTAIN WITHIN THE NEXT 12 TO 24 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE
OUTSIDE!

LAZ038-040-050-056>070-282100-
ASSUMPTION-LIVINGSTON-LOWER JEFFERSON-LOWER LAFOURCHE-
LOWER PLAQUEMINES-LOWER ST. BERNARD-LOWER TERREBONNE-ORLEANS-
ST. CHARLES-ST. JAMES-ST. JOHN THE BAPTIST-ST. TAMMANY-TANGIPAHOA-
UPPER JEFFERSON-UPPER LAFOURCHE-UPPER PLAQUEMINES-UPPER ST. BERNARD-
UPPER TERREBONNE-
1011 AM CDT SUN AUG 28 2005


INLAND HURRICANE WIND WARNING IN EFFECT

HURRICANE KATRINA
A MOST POWERFUL HURRICANE WITH UNPRECEDENTED
STRENGTH...RIVALING THE INTENSITY OF HURRICANE CAMILLE OF 1969.

ONSET OF TROPICAL STORM FORCE WINDS WILL BE AROUND 3 PM THIS
AFTERNOON AND PERSIST FOR ABOUT 26 HOURS. HURRICANE FORCE WINDS WILL
ONSET AROUND SUNSET TONIGHT IN LOWER PLAQUEMINES PARISH AND SPREAD
NORTHWARD BY 3 AM MONDAY MORNING...PERSISTING FOR ABOUT 12 TO 17
HOURS. MAXIMUM SUSTAINED WINDS IN EXCESS OF 140 MPH CAN LAST FOR 2
TO 3 HOURS.

ONCE TROPICAL STORM AND HURRICANE FORCE WINDS ONSET...DO NOT VENTURE
OUTSIDE!

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Ho-Lee crap. My prayers are with the people of New Orleans and the surrounding areas.

I hope they forgive me for being morbidly fascinated by this.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

Looks like we're situated north/northeast of the east side of the eye wall, so this might roll on us the same way that Ivan did. If so, we're in for a severe rocking.

Still not nearly the fate that awaits New Orleans :cry my second home I will miss you, we had some good times :cry

[CMJ]

Hurricane hunter aircraft just found sustained wins at 184mph. Not sure the NHC will officially change its info tho. Pressure dropped to 902mbs.

[Shawn]

Listening to Tool - Ænema, and replacing "LA" with "NO" in my head.

[Hera]

Watching people trying to evacuate the city in gridlocked highways is quite incredible.

The winds have dropped, very slightly, but not so much that will make a difference at this point.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it is unbelievable I don't want to think what it will be like tomorrow morning.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Watching CNN and the other networks they are using the Superdome for a shelter, hopefully that will be strong enough. What I couldn't believe is there are these people south of New Orleans in a beach town the people are bunkering on their boats. I thought they are stupid, they are just dead doing that nonsense. The storm serge alone will do them in.

[Cirrsseeto Quez]

The bad part about this is that not only is New Orleans almost entirely below sea level, but they've got the Mississippi, Gulf of Mexico, AND Lake Pontchartrain to worry about, from essentially west, south, and east respectively. Storm surges will hit them regardless of where this hurricane lands.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah it will be horrible, city is in for a mess.

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Yeah it will be horrible, city is in for a mess. No, there won't be a city for there to be a mess of.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Goodbye NO; at least I got to walk through your streets once in my life :(

[Yog]

Looks like the worst case scenario could be very plausible. I hope the officials order a mandatory evacuation, because the prospect of NO under 10-15 feet of water is not peachy. Staying in that city overnight seems to me like utter lunacy.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Aye, a mandatory evac was ordered earlier today, and there's a 9:00 curfew in effect

I've had this (http://www.wwltv.com/perl/common/video/wmPlayer.pl?title=beloint_wwltv&props=livenoad) on for the last hour.


edit - Reporter lady in Baton Rouge just said that driving out of New Orleans there were NO birds or squirrels anywhere. You know it's going to be bad when the animals aren't anywhere to be found :\

[Yog]

Thanks for the video link S'il!

Here is current path of the hurricane. The margin of error does not make much room for any close call here. Even with the most 'optimistic' possible trajectory I think the effects of this weather is most likely to become catastrophic for NO. The citizens who are still around need either a miracle or get out of there.

<img src=http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/weather/0508/path.katrina/katrina.cone.sun.5pm.gif>

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
Thanks for the video link S'il!

Here is current path of the hurricane. The margin of error does not make much room for any close call here. Even with the most 'optimistic' possible trajectory I think the effects of this weather is most likely to become catastrophic for NO. The citizens who are still around need either a miracle or get out of there.

<img src=http://i.a.cnn.net/cnn/interactive/weather/0508/path.katrina/katrina.cone.sun.5pm.gif>



I dont think there's going to be a miricle for anyone remaining.

[Yog]

I think this image speaks for itself. We know that levee system is pretty much guaranteed to fail. The term "soupbowl" springs to mind.

<img src=http://img302.imageshack.us/img302/5306/elevationmap9ox2rh.gif>

.. and while talking about flooding, lets not forget the devestating effects the winds themselves can have. This is what the category 4 hurricane Galvestone did in 1900 (Katrina is a category 5, the 4th ever recorded). If the pressure is maintained, Katrina will be the second most intense hurricane ever recorded to make landfall since the recording of hurricanes started in 1851.

Galveston category 4:
<img src=http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/4/47/Galveston_-_1900_wreckage.jpg/300px-Galveston_-_1900_wreckage.jpg>

More info on Katrina here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hurricane_Katrina

[Lance Casey]

I feel sorry for all those people who are going to lose their homes and lives. I woudn't be surprised if NO is declared No mans Land.

[Sanis Prent]

Winds won't be the major issue for NOLA, as the eye is predicted to pass just east of them. The strongest winds will be avoided, as they'll catch the winds on the western side. Still quite strong, but considerably weaker than the eastern side.

The problem is that those rotating winds will first siphon a ton of the Gulf of Mexico into Lake Pontchartrain, and as the hurricane heads toward Hattiesburg, the tailwinds coming off the west side will take a water-gorged Pontchartrain south and over the levees.

:(

In minor news, looks like s'Il, Akrabbim and myself will find ourselves on the east side of Katrina as it swings up tomorrow night. I have no idea what to expect, because we got a decent thumping from Ivan, and we were on the west side when it was a Category one. The current predictions put us squarely on the east side, and the storm could possibly still be Category 2. I have no idea how this is going to affect things.

[Kathryn]

My prayer for those of you under this storm - or near it. I've been through an earthquake (7.2 - Loma Priata) and a hurricane (1970s, relatively minor - landfall at biloxi) - I prefer the earthquake. Let the rest of us know if you need anything - if you can - please.

In the meanitime, may the Force, or God, be with you.

Kathryn of Corellia

[Crystal]

Hmm. weather.com is showing this as the satelite right now. Maybe NO is invincible?

http://img398.imageshack.us/img398/8287/5l3fw.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

[Marceloi]

I doubt the worst will happen. Yes bad, but it'll not be anywhere near the doom and gloom FOX OMG YOUR ALL GUNNA DIEE!!!!! tries to make out

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I've been reading reports all over that this has the possibility to be really horrific. So I wouldn't pigeonhole FOX as the only doomsayer.

[CMJ]

It does indeed look like it might miss NO. Well...from a direct hit anyways... still expect some really bad stuff.

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I've been reading reports all over that this has the possibility to be really horrific. So I wouldn't pigeonhole FOX as the only doomsayer.

They are by far the worst. As per usual, their news coverage is little better than sewerage outflow.

[Yog]

Well, yeah, you know its FOX when they put up estimates of death tolls of 50,000 12 hours before the hurricane even hits land.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by CMJ
It does indeed look like it might miss NO. Well...from a direct hit anyways... still expect some really bad stuff.

Mobile is going to get creamed....again

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Master Yoghurt
Well, yeah, you know its FOX when they put up estimates of death tolls of 50,000 12 hours before the hurricane even hits land.

I'm watching a CNN feed and I can say with a great deal of safety that USA ads and TV is actually worse than the worse I have ever seen in Australia. You would have to compare for yourself to believe me, but it's just indescribably awful. But the reporters are insane. reporting from near the eye?!?!? And the visuals..... they are nuts. That at least makes up for how bad the rest of the feed is.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Let's not forget Geraldo :rolleyes

From what I heard about his coverage last night before heading to work, it was the kind of stuff Goons live for. So they can poke fun at it, of course :)

[Kraehe Branwen]

I lost my power for only one night. Our food was still pretty much frozen by the time our power came back on, but I've been so busy since the hurricane that I haven't been on much. We didn't get hit hard cuz Katrina was only a 1 when she hit Florida. Jeseth stayed with us for two days, but had to go back to Miami anyways cuz he has stuff to do.

It's scary that this thing passed through us and is actually at doomsday power now. o.o I need to get the heck out of this state and somewhere safer! O.o

This is history in the making though... That picture of the level at which NO sits is scary. Once the hurricane comes through it is going to crush every building and those dams apart and the city is going to be completely under water. It's frightening and I hope that the people there have all evacuated rather than stick around cuz there is no way that anyone will survive.

Someone told me today that there is a estimate about 4000 deaths to occur once it makes landfall.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It has been pretty bad, NO has been spared the worst luckily although flodding looking like it will be bad, the city is going to have a mess to clean up. I understand the superdome is leaking where evacucees are hunkering down. That sounds bad. It looks like Gulfport and Biloxi are getting the worst of it, it sounds like the second coming of Camille which I believe hit those areas pretty hard back in 69.

[Kraehe Branwen]

It hit already? Jeez, I really have been busy. o.o I haven't been able to keep up with the news, too busy packing so I can get the heck away from hurricane territory. I've only been here in Florida for two years and I've been through about three or four of these stupid things!

[CMJ]

Yea, Camille hit Pass Christian MS, which is very close to Gulfport.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I thought it was close it is then an eerie comparison to Camille.

[CMJ]

We still don't know how bad it was in MS. New Orleans, despite early reports to the contrary got hit very hard with flooding. Don't be shocked to see over a hundred dead. Maybe well over.

[Nayala Palain]

Damn... Oddly my name in Real life is Katrina. And Im just as mean and bitchy at times. Im thrilled to see NOLA didnt get removed from the map.

Also that so many people are all ok from FL.

[CMJ]

Ponchartran levee broke....more flooding occuring.

[Yog]

The breach is 2 quartals wide and the water is rising at a foot per hour.

[Sanis Prent]

Doing fine over here. Lost a bunch of power and there were downed trees & powerlines galore. I haven't had contact with Christin since early last night though :(

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

I haven't been out into any other part of town, but at the house there's alot of smaller branches and a few larger dead ones all over the place. Lost power at around 8:30 - 8:45 last night, and just got it back about an hour ago. It was something else listening to the wind, and I was hearing trees crack and crash to the ground all night. Lots of debris hit the house, but nothing broken; just alot of banging.

Pictures coming in a few hours. Don't expect any horrible catastrophe shots like NO though.

[Mandy with an I]

:hug I'm glad you two are okay.

We're supposed to catch the tail-end, but that'll just be a bit of rain and wind. :| I guess a customer came into my work yesterday freaking out because we were going to get hit by the "tornado" :rolleyes

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Thanks Dae :hug

Here's a small photo gallery that's being added to:

http://stfuyouomg.net/katrina/index.php?dir=./.&p=1

Some of the pictures are just mind boggling, and others almost unbelievable. This (http://stfuyouomg.net/katrina/index.php?mode=view&src=././Image13.jpg)one in particular had me speechless.

[CMJ]

Biblical proportions people.

[Darth McBain]

Originally posted by CMJ
Biblical proportions people.

You're not kidding. Last I heard they're evacuating the refugees from the emergency shelters.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Broken gas lines, fires in parts of the city, rising waters, sewage in the water, and floating balls of fire ants are among many reasons for the citywide evac.

Of course, NO isn't the only city that was ravaged; Slidell and Biloxi aren't exactly paradise spots anymore :(

[Sanis Prent]

Slidell was never a paradise spot to begin with ;)

[Jedi Master Carr]

The death toll in Mississippi is now over 80 but it could reach in the 100's according to the Mayor of Biloxi. N.O looks bad I wouldn't be surprised to see a high death toll there.

[Jeseth Cloak]

As bad as it might seem now, it was very fortunate for everyone that the hurricane took it down a notch before hitting a majorly populated area. It could have been a lot worse.

Power is back up for me as of yesterday.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jeseth Cloak
As bad as it might seem now, it was very fortunate for everyone that the hurricane took it down a notch before hitting a majorly populated area. It could have been a lot worse.


No sure about that. I also happen to think this was a Category 5, and the NHC will reclassify it(ala Andrew). Twenty seven foot storm surge people. There aren't many Cat 5's that have that kind of surge. I don't think I've ever heard of a Cat 4 with one over 18feet.

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

'As bad as it might seem now'? Sweety, NO is underwater :(

[Jeseth Cloak]

The hurricane went down to a category three pretty fast. If it hadn't, things would have been much worse.

[CMJ]

Yeah...once it was INLAND it went down to Category 3. They always lose strength then.

[CMJ]

East bank of NO is being evacuated. They expect the pumps to fail immenently

Jesus.

****Got this from a firefighter friend of mine back home in TX


I just got off the phone with one of our officers. Fort Worth has 9 members of the Texas Task Force and Texas Swift Water Rescue teams in N.O. They spent better part of the day in and around the French Quarter helping folks and doing searches in collapses and flooded areas. He said it's getting worst by the hour. The police are refusing to respond to certain areas that are the worst as night sets in due to the violence and said they now are having to await the National Guard. Apparantly the idea of allowing people to take what they need has backfired because people are starting to steal from each other or are fighting over what is left. He said this is creating small skirmishes of riots that are starting to breakout, forcing emergency crew members to back off from getting to those who need the most help due to the violence. He said it's very bad, wide spread bad. Also mentioned that most of those who didn't want to leave at first now want to but can't because of a lack of access routes and gas.

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Jeseth Cloak
The hurricane went down to a category three pretty fast. If it hadn't, things would have been much worse.

Umm from where I am, it IS much worse. You have had had serveal areas wiped clean off the map and a major city is right now drowning and probably will be a complete loss, thousands either dead or abotut o drown, 30,000 trapped in what was supposed to be the refuge of last resort, fires, crap piling up.... How could ths have gotten worse, apart from initial outright damage?

[Loklorien s'Ilancy]

Actually, last I heard the count in the Superdome is around 60k. The levees are crumbling, people are looting, an officer was shot in the back of the head while trying to stop a looter, looters and cops have been trading gunshots, a jailbreak has happened, and quite a few other things - I wish I could write this up extensively, but I have to go to work.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Marceloi
Umm from where I am, it IS much worse. You have had had serveal areas wiped clean off the map and a major city is right now drowning and probably will be a complete loss, thousands either dead or abotut o drown, 30,000 trapped in what was supposed to be the refuge of last resort, fires, crap piling up.... How could ths have gotten worse

It could be raining - literally that's about it.

[Mandy with an I]

I heard from a customer at work tell me that a man jumped to his death from some place on the Super Dome. Havent been watching the news, so I don't know if it's true.

People here are worried about the...omg! 30 milimeters of rain we're supposed to get. :| My sister asked if you were okay, s'il, because she heard about a town in Alabama were 100 people were killed (again, dont watch the news, so don't know where this would be.)

The only pictures I've seen were the ones posted at SA, and the amount of water in the city is unbelievable. :( Especially when you live in a place where you never see that kind of weather.

[Morgan Evanar]

Mobile is on the Gulf Coast, and most of the death reports are coming from Mississippi.

[Sanis Prent]

No such town like that in AL, or at the very least, nothing confirmed in reports. We've had two deaths in this state, which were traffic incidents indirectly related to hurricane conditions.

Most of the affected areas here are around the bay. Gulf Shores, Mobile, Dauphin Island, Orange Beach, and Bayou La Batre.

I'm suprised at the reports from Dauphin Island, and how light they got off with this one. For a glorified sand bar, I would've expected a nastier time of it, but the damage there isn't all that bad. Fun little island. Town on the east side, and narrow enough on the west side so that you can walk from the Mississippi Sound to the Gulf of Mexico in literally ten paces :cool

[CMJ]

Death toll in Mississippi is now reported to be over 100. BTW - because of the New Orleans's civil unrest - MS has gotten a bit of a shaft. I saw 20 minues of chopper footage of Gulport, Biloxi, Port St Louis, and a few others. Un- freaking believable.

[Yog]

If this is the 'safest' place in NO, I wonder how the rest of the city is like..

<img src=http://cache.aftenposten.no/multimedia/archive/00314/TOPIX_HURRICANE_KAT_314425h.jpg>

I also gotta agree with the comments it could not have been much worse. I mean, the flooding did happen even though the hurricane wobbled to the east, which pretty much was the worst case scenario for NO. Because Katrina went east, we now also have areas like Biloxi, Mobile and Mississippi which really got pounded.

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Dae Jinn
The only pictures I've seen were the ones posted at SA, and the amount of water in the city is unbelievable. :( Especially when you live in a place where you never see that kind of weather.

SA been literally the best news source of all about this. I cant get crap outta the Aust media, it's being reported badly and if they say anything, it's hours late.

I cant believe we actually have a major disaster like this beign UNDER reported.

[Telan Desaria]

As you know, I am a volunteer firefighter and also law enforcement officer. I have spoken with my commandeurs in both departments and am currently awaiting word from them as to whether or not our aide is requested. We have placed calls to the New Orleans Police Department as well as the Louisiana State Police. So far we have heard nothing, but we would be very glad to help.

The Best to All under Katrina's Guns

[Clea Darkrunner]

I was stationed in Biloxi for a while. Form the few pictures I've seen, I can't RECOGNIZE the place - bridge TOTALLY down, no streets, an apartment where friends lived literally only a slab.

does anyone know if ANY of the base survived? Somebody said there was a picture of Keesler Airplane Patch, but I can't find it.

[Telan Desaria]

I do not know - we were informed that at least one police officer was killed trying to stop looting and at least another injured. Also, one volunteer firefighter drowned while attempting a rescue.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Biblical proportions is correct. Wow.

My prayers to all in the areas that have been hit.

[CMJ]

http://www.slate.com/id/2125352/

Article on New Orleans. Makes people like me, who are from an area - and then leave once you "grow up", think how you'd react seeing your roots demolished on TV.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The N.O Mayor thinks thousands are dead that would make it the second worst hurricane in history after the 1900 one that hit Galveston. Probably the third worst natural disaster after The Great 1906 Earthquake. And it is just not getting any better there it is just so sad to see :(

[CMJ]

I wouldn't be surprised if the death toll were greater than Galveston.

[Sanis Prent]

Nor would I.

This will be somewhere between Galveston and Mitch.

[CMJ]

Having watched tons of footage ...I think the small town of Waveland, MS(population of just a few thousand) got hit the worst. OMG, there was nothing left there.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The situation in New Orleans right now is horrible and really the govt. isn't doing enough (I mean both local and national). They should have done more like using cruise ships whatever to get them out of their. It looks like some third world country there now and the govt. seems helpless in handling in.

[Morgan Evanar]

The local government is completely overwhelmed. Where are the feds?

[CMJ]

I've been warning about this for years.

Read this study from last November.

http://www.colorado.edu/hazards/o/nov04/nov04c.html

Prophetic.

[Morgan Evanar]

Something Awful is down. The Disaster Manager at their hosting company downed the server because all of the tier 1s but bellsouth lost connectivity. They're trying to get fuel to Bellsouth right now, hopefully they should be back up. The Marines FINALLY showed up.

[JMK]

That was long overdue. They should have been there right away. Easy to say now, but it's hard to imagine that a crowd of desperate, starving, homeless, angry, tired, at risk people would remain entirely calm while things get back in order.

[CMJ]

http://www.nbc10.com/news/4924433/detail.html

Storm surge video.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is incredible they were lucky to survive taking pictures of that. Okay the situation in N.O has been horrible mismanaged. I mean people had no water for days they should have parachuted it in or something. People died because of this. Fema should be ashamed of themselves.

[CMJ]

It's 90,000 square miles of devastation Layton. That's the size of Great Britain. This isn't like....easy. We are seeing NO live and in color, but it's not like people aren't suffering dehydration in MS and Alabama.

Was the government response too slow? Yes. But this isn't one small area they're dealing with.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know but it just sickens me, especially not getting enough water to people that should have been one of the first things. Also from what it sounds like in CNN, N.O is getting the worst response from FEMA they act like things are great in the other states as far as supplies are concerined.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I know but it just sickens me, especially not getting enough water to people that should have been one of the first things. Also from what it sounds like in CNN, N.O is getting the worst response from FEMA they act like things are great in the other states as far as supplies are concerined.

It's crap too. Here's a message from the Sun Herald message board.


Stella I am sorry I have no idea.... I hope they got out...but if you want to help...since there is no eletric no phones..there is no way to know until we get military in there to help....because we can not reach anybody still there....so the best thing to do is email, call, do whatever it takes to get people all over,like media other police military friends...whoever whereever...to KNOW THAT THERE IS NO ONE THERE TO HELP IN BAY ST LOUIS AND WAVELAND ...it seems everybody is so concerned with LA...that MS is being forgotten,,,,I HAVE NOT SEEN THE FIRST RESCUE FROM THOSE TWO CITIES....PLEASE HELP BY GETTING THE WORD OUT THERE....ALL OVER THE NET>>>THE MEDIA ...WHATEVER IT TAKES...WE HAVE FRIENDS AND FAMILY DYING...BY HEAT AND STARVATION SOON....

[Jedi Master Carr]

Maybe CNN was just ignoring the situation there, they are showing a lot of N.O. Still, the whole situation is bad, the good news is we are getting help from the UN and the rest of the world. The UN is sending the guy who helped with the Tsunami disaster and he did a great job over there. So maybe some help is on its a way. One good thing about that makes me happy to see the rest of the world helping us, it shows that not all of them really hate us as some people say they do.

[CMJ]

That's my point man. I mean MS might not have the dramatic lawlessness(though they have that too) their story is getting largley ignored by the media. It ticks me off.

Yes, I know NO is a great American city. And it's more immediate with the higher death toll. But it's not the whole story. Not even half of it.

What about Grand Isle? The other LA Parishes? MS's Gulf Coast? Alabama? Hell, there was the one community in GA that got destroyed by tornados spawned by Katrina.

NO has gotten about 75% of the total coverage.

[General Dan]

This certainly isn't helping me to ever want to trust my local or federal government, ever.

I feel less tinfoil-hattish for making sure I'm prepared for this sort of thing now.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Dan the Man
This certainly isn't helping me to ever want to trust my local or federal government, ever.

I feel less tinfoil-hattish for making sure I'm prepared for this sort of thing now.

Yeah, I do plan on buying 10-20 gallons of water just in case of an earthquake, instead of the 1 I currently have.

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Maybe CNN was just ignoring the situation there, they are showing a lot of N.O. Still, the whole situation is bad, the good news is we are getting help from the UN and the rest of the world. The UN is sending the guy who helped with the Tsunami disaster and he did a great job over there. So maybe some help is on its a way. One good thing about that makes me happy to see the rest of the world helping us, it shows that not all of them really hate us as some people say they do.

Most us dislike your government, not your people. We'll send what we can if it's asked for. Dont be shy in asking.

[General Dan]

If I actually thought I could get in without hassle from the feds or armed gangs, I'd try to haul as much survival supplies to one of the hospitals and help keep the chokepoints secure. Wishful thinking in the highest order, but that's about where I'm at. Instead, I'll resort to giving a ton of supplies to Red Cross this weekend.

[CMJ]

So, since I warned of NO for so long, I thought I'd throw out one of the 2 other doomsday scenarios for you. The was written in 2001 and is quoted from www.hurricaneville.com -



It has been two years since Hurricane Floyd, or what was left of it brought the heavy rains to parts of New Jersey, and despite warnings by forecasters that we are entering a period of increased hurricane activity, many people in the tri-state area of New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut don't really think a hurricane can happen here.

There are projects occurring around the region such as FEMA's Project Impact in places such as Freeport, Long Island, which has impacted greatly on building homes and businesses there. Nevertheless, there is still a great potential for disaster in this region if the right situation comes along since New York makes a right angle with the New Jersey coast.

What is really important to realize here is that a major hurricane has happened here in the past, and will occur again. The one thing is for sure, it will not be a question of if, but when. That brings to question whether or not the tri-state area, is prepared for a major hurricane.



According to a study done in 1996 (Hughes), approximately 78.5% of current residents in New York have not experienced a major hurricane, or even a lesser hurricane for that matter. That is because a major hurricane hasn't hit in this region in some 63 years since the Long Island Express of 1938.

Nevertheless, there have been past episodes of major hurricanes in the tri-state area of New York, New Jersey, and Connecticut. As a matter of fact, such an event has occurred once every 80 years or so. When we talked about the state of preparedness in New Jersey, we had mentioned how the unique geography sort of helped in keeping many hurricanes away.

The fact that the United States coastline turns inward after bulging out around Cape Hatteras along with the presence of the westerlies makes it difficult for a major hurricane to reach the tri-state region. However, if and when such a storm does make it this far there is a possibility that it could inflict tremendous damage if it can make landfall in the right location.

That is because New York and New Jersey meet at a right angle, and that in turn, could potentially lead to very devastating and deadly storm tides, particularly, if a landfalling hurricane would coincide with high tide. Finally, and most importantly, according to the United States Geological Survey, there is a 71% probability of a major hurricane that will cause 1,000 deaths within the next 20 years.




One of the biggest obstacles to overcome in trying to raise hurricane awareness and in turn improve hurricane preparedness in the tri-state region is public complacency. Approximately 78.5% of residents that live in coastal New York, which includes New York City as well as the entire stretch of Long Island.

This is quite dangerous because there has been a tremendous build up throughout Long Island, which will be a much more densely populated region when the next major hurricane comes a calling. In addition, you have a very densely populated New Jersey coastline as well.

Not only does this build up present a problem in terms of damage, but also in terms of potential loss of life since the tri-state area can be a very congested region during a normal rush hour so adding the drama of a landfalling major hurricane, and the congestion could skyrocket.

As you can see, there is quite a recipe for disaster here in the tri-state area. The biggest tool we have other than the technological advances in meteorology over the past 50 to 100 years, is education the general public about a threat, and convincing them that a major hurricane can happen here.

There must be a campaign to reach out to the people with all the information we have available in its various forms such as printed flyers and brochures, public forums, television, radio, and even the web.




In 1992, Hurricane Andrew devastated much of South Florida, which had not seen a major hurricane of Andrew's caliber in some 27 years despite the geographic location of South Florida. This had left many South Floridians unprepared for Andrew, and it showed.

The most powerful storm of the 1992 season ended up being the most costliest hurricane ever as Andrew caused some $27 billion dollars in damage. One of the lasting impacts of Hurricane Andrew is the level of preparedness Floridians now take when a hurricane threatens their area. In addition, South Florida now has the strictest building codes in the entire country.

Will the tri-state region learn from these lessons? This remains to be seen. There seems to be a very apathetic feeling toward the possibility of such a disaster. Most New Yorkers and New Jerseyans as well as some in Connecticut think that a major hurricane can hit here. The last major hurricanes to really make an impact over the Northeast were the Long Island Express of 1938, which killed some 600 people, and the 1944 Hurricane which left another 390 people dead.

There have also been several devastating hurricanes in years preceding these two in 1635, 1815, 1821 and 1893. Looking at those facts along with storm data on the last 20 hurricanes that have impacted the tri-state region, a major hurricane strikes every 80 years or so. We've also had close calls with Hurricane Gloria in 1985 and Hurricane Bob in 1991, but these storms mild impacts may have given residents of this region a false sense of security.

So, many generations of people in the tri-state region including 78.5 percent of all New Yorkers have never experienced a major hurricane. One thing we must consider is that those two storms killed that many people at a time when places such as Long Island were not as heavily populated as it is today.

In addition, forecasting is still very difficult despite the progress that has been made over the years. Even the recently developed seasonal forecasts have not been able to effectively assist emergency management and disaster planning officials because the predictions are not detailed enough to give them a good idea of how to prepare.

However, seasonal forecasting is a helpful tool in the sense that it gives people in vulnerable ideas of what's going to happen so that they can make the necessary preparations to protect themselves and their possessions. There are also long term forecasts, which indicate that there will be an increased number of major hurricanes over the next 20 to 30 years.

This is at the same time that population growth is expected to continue to grow in New York and New Jersey, which adds to the problem. Knowing that this area handled such storms as the Blizzard of '96, and the strong Winter Storm that ended the year 2000, there is hope that we will be prepared if and when a major hurricane comes a calling.

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by CMJ
So, since I warned of NO for so long, I thought I'd throw out one of the 2 other doomsday scenarios for you. The was written in 2001 and is quoted from www.hurricaneville.com -

Now, while it's been well known that if NO was hit by something liek Katrina, what's really puzzling is that it seems that if your on the Internet or listening to NPR, you know more about what's going on that the officials in FEMA or Homeland Security do. We get NPR and I was listeng to an interview of the local HS secretary, he was point blank denying a very bad situation with 2000 people at a convention centre when reporters had been in there and in fact so had federal troops.

It was staggering to hear this guy just refuse to listen. And the fun thing was, NPR reported the damn idiot acknowledged they were right 5 minutes later. I would liek to think that's isolated, but from the scraps of info from what I have to say is some of the worst coverage I've seen to a major event, it's not isolated.

I'm rather ashamed to say no one hear knew anything about Katrina till last night when the mass media finally reported it. How does the overseas media fall asleep on a story liek this?

Edit : And if you want to find out how bad it really is, there's an inteview witht he Mayor of NO that spells it out just how badly things are beign handled.

[Sanis Prent]

Why won't they let us in there??? :( I feel absolutely helpless. I've got to get in there :cry

[Ryla Relvinian]

Just checked in to make sure that all of y'all in the area are doing OK. I feel like my brain's been taken over - I can't stop watching the news and wishing I could just hijack a plane at gunpoint, fill up at Safeway with bottles and bottles of water and everything else, and just <smallfont color={hovercolor}>-Censored-</smallfont>in fly down there. It's amazing, the amount of devistation!! I'm in awe and glad I live on the West Coast.

Damn. Glad you all are ok though.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know I wish I could send water and supplies as well, not sure what else to do other than donate money to the Red Cross. I just hope things get better.
CMJ there are other doomsday scenerios of course, the two biggest are The Big Earthquake that will one day hit LA-S.F and Mount Rainer blowing up and destroying much of Seattle. Those are the others that people fear will one day happen.

[Dutchy]

I can't believe people at the stadium were shooting at that chopper that was trying to save them. :\

[Sanis Prent]

At this point, I'm ready to fuel up, fill my truck and go. They're going to have to stop me.

[Ryla Relvinian]

And you've got better guns anyway. I'd put my money on you.

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
CMJ there are other doomsday scenerios of course, the two biggest are The Big Earthquake that will one day hit LA-S.F and Mount Rainer blowing up and destroying much of Seattle. Those are the others that people fear will one day happen.

I was strictly talking hurricanes man. But if you want to talk earthquakes, the real worst case scenario is one hitting NY, because they didn't build to defend against them. The city is near a fairly prominent fault line - which produces a major earthquake every couple hundred years according to seismologists.

Has there ever been a major quake in NY since the formation of the country? Not that I remember. Ticking time bomb.

[Morgan Evanar]

http://www.ledgeofliberty.com/2005/09/katrina_timelin.html

[CMJ]

Morgan, hurricane experts have been warning of an impending NO disaster since the aftermath of Hurricane Camille in 1969. Every President since Nixon, and every Governor, Senator and House Rep, is just as worthy of blame for not building higher levees.

Besides, even with stronger, higher, levees it might not have been enough.

[Morgan Evanar]

Yeah, but it might have been, too. Fact of the matter is that they weren't even given a chance. If you read, the project was to improve what was there, and instead they had the funding reduced to a point where they couldn't even maintain what they had.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I heard about the funding cuts if it is true it is pretty dispicable, while you can never predict such a disaster, I don't understand why they would cut something that is really so vital. I guess they were more interested in the terrorism and decided to ignore other potetial disasters.

[CMJ]

I read it. I can't say I agree. To lay blame at Bush is ridiculous. They've had over 30 years to build stronger levees, since people like me started wailing about the potential trouble

The current plan you posted about would've taken years to build - even if fully funded. Sorry, I'm more irritated at everyone post Camille honestly. She showed what a 25 foot storm surge could do 36 years ago. People always forget those kinds of things. You need to strike while the iron is hot.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think if you want to blame Bush it be better to look at the recovery more so than the storm itself. Its hard to blame him for the hurricane the aftermath well we will see how that goes.

[Ryla Relvinian]

The bottom line is what we are able to do *now,* with what we have, rather than pointing fingers where it really doesn't matter. It's hard for me to blame Bush when I know that a. You can't just beam supplies to a disaster area and b. If they knew that these things happen every year, why don't they have supplies on hand? Or at least a pre-emptive plan?

I live on a major fault line and yet do I have an earthquake kit? Do any of us really like to believe that it will actually happen to us? Mistakes are always made.

More importantly, there is a convoy (http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/index.html) that just arrived in NO right now, so help is on the way. Now, if we could only understand why people are shooting at rescuers and hellicopters...

[Morgan Evanar]

Because it's 4 days too late?

[JMK]

People who are shooting at convoys out of frustration really only made things much worse in terms of waiting for help. I can't imagine how those people are feeling right now, but I can't side with someone who decides to do something so insane. Late or not, shooting at them is not going to make them deliver the relief faster.

[Morgan Evanar]

They're also probably junkies and are strung out.

[iampetro]

Actually the "shots fired at the rescue vehicle" story is fake...

An FAA spokeswoman said she had no such report. ‘We’re controlling every single aircraft in that airspace and none of them reported being fired on,’ she said, adding that the FAA was in contact with the military as well as civilian aircraft.

FEMA has used the “shots fired at rescue helicopter” as reason for shutting down rescue operations today.

http://www.sploid.com/news/2005/09/01/lies-revealed-no-shots-fired-at-rescue-chopper-123565.php

[Telan Desaria]

My suggestion: hire the Dutch to create a network of damns and levees and dykes. They have been constructing such works since before Amerika was settled

[Sanis Prent]

Can it already. The Dutch don't deal with cataclysmic hurricanes in their area.

[Dutchy]

Originally posted by Telan Desaria
My suggestion: hire the Dutch to create a network of damns and levees and dykes. They have been constructing such works since before Amerika was settled

Are you Dutch?

Since you spell Amerika with a k. :)

[Clea Darkrunner]

Supplies will do you no good if they're contaminated, blown away, or under the rubble. I rode out a Cat-3 hurricane in Biloxi - people have no IDEA of the force of these things. You can't set things up - if they won't be there after the disaster. As a volunteer cop (posse comititas - Air National Guard can be drafted or volunteer to act as a cop) I was out in it, trying to get people out. It's DAMN scary to be riding in a heavy police cruiser and feel the car LIFT under you.

I now live in California - Silicon Valley - and have an earthquake kit, suitable for a month for one person. If I don't get out when the Big One comes, I hope to hell SOMEONE can use it, but I'm not betting on that.

[Morgan Evanar]

I went through Andrew's north eye wall, I know exactly what that's like.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Telan Desaria
My suggestion: hire the Dutch to create a network of damns and levees and dykes. They have been constructing such works since before Amerika was settled


The Army Corp of Engineers constructed the levees in New Orleans originally. The problem it not a lack of knowledge about how to construct such things, it's funding. The ACoE has been begging Congress for YEARS now to give then the money to fund a complete overhaul of the New Orleans levee system. They, like many others, knew that city would be in danger from a Category 4 or 5 storm that could produce 20 ft.-plus storm surges.

I have to agree with CMJ here. It's been more than 35 years since Camile hit that area. It's been known for at least that long that something like what Katrina caused was not only possible, but likely in the future. A lot of people over the years can share the blame for not getting that city better prepared, not just the current adminstration.

[iampetro]

the point is, Bush cut what federal funding was available to Louisiana by 80% during his administration, sending the money to Iraq.

[Telan Desaria]

I am not calling the COE incompetent by any means. They are, as you pointed out, underfunded.

I am German, surely you remember us? Our people spent some time together about sixty years ago.

[Sanis Prent]

Who cares about the blame? Worry bout it later.

If you're within range to be taking refugees, I strongly urge you to go to your local chapter of the American Red Cross and volunteer for disaster relief efforts. Even if we can't smuggle food and supplies and get people out of the danger zone, we can still help provide for those who've made it this far.

I'm going by the Birmingham headquarters tomorrow to get information for training and find out where I'm needed. I strongly urge you all to do the same if it is within your power.

[iampetro]

Sanis... I've done the same thing, but haven't heard back from my local chapter of the red cross. I'm within driving distance of NO, so hopefully I'll hear soon.

[Ryla Relvinian]

I'm going to go give blood tomorrow and see what I can do from here. They've set up a bloodmobile just across the street from my house, so hopefully I can stagger home, slightly pale-er that usual. (And that's pretty pale, actually.)

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
The Army Corp of Engineers constructed the levees in New Orleans originally. The problem it not a lack of knowledge about how to construct such things, it's funding. The ACoE has been begging Congress for YEARS now to give then the money to fund a complete overhaul of the New Orleans levee system. They, like many others, knew that city would be in danger from a Category 4 or 5 storm that could produce 20 ft.-plus storm surges.

I have to agree with CMJ here. It's been more than 35 years since Camile hit that area. It's been known for at least that long that something like what Katrina caused was not only possible, but likely in the future. A lot of people over the years can share the blame for not getting that city better prepared, not just the current adminstration.

True as that is, the Bush Administration is rght in the corsshairs for simply not responding fast enough, nor with enough resources. The simple question is, why the hell are there people still in the Superdome? Why are there other big groups not being looked after? Why are hospitals being left to fend for themselves?

Yes, there is going to be a time delay before boots hit the ground, but surely there's been enough time to do a lot more than whats being done.....? And with the warnings that have been given, why is there apparently no plan to deal with all of this?

Putting aside disaster proofing questions and funding, those are questons that are going to have to be answered because the perception at least to me is the response to the actual disaster has been shoddy.

[Ryla Relvinian]

It seems like it's been spotty as well - some locations are very well looked-after, while others are just inaccessible. I've heard reports that there have been so many people just showing up at the Superdome and getting on busses to get out that the people who have been waiting haven't had a chance to get moved. It seems like a waiting game for now, and that's not what those people need or want right now.

Maybe the response was so lax initially because people didn't take it as seriously. It seems that, once Bush got into the area, things started hurrying up to some degree.

I don't know. It just seems mighty easy to criticize any aspect of this (why do people live there/why didn't they leave with five days' notice, why was aid so slow coming, why why why?) from our comfortable computer chairs....

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Who cares about the blame? Worry bout it later.



Agreed. I probably should not have said anything. It's not what the focus should be right now.

Some friends and I have already begun a clothing drive in our community, and will be making a mass donation to the Salvation Army's relief effort. Though they have been asking for money more than anything, clothing will quickly become a concern as more immediately needed supplies become available over the next week.

I would encourage people to not only give money to the relief effort, but consider things that will be needed in the weeks and months to come, and prepare to donate multiple times as those new needs develop. This is going to be an endurance trial to help everyone affected by this, not a sprint.

Ryla's suggestion of giving blood is also a great one. Our local volunteer fire department is holding a blood drive this weekend, to which I intend to donate.

Best of luck to you Charley. Be safe in your efforts.

[Pierce Tondry]

If I was closer to the scene I might just get in a car and go or something. Right now, I'm just making plans to donate blood and older clothes when I am feeling better (sick today).

[Jedi Master Carr]

The blame game will come later during the next election cycle can't deny that. Right now hopefully these people will get some help that is the best that can happen right now.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Maybe this is stupid - but if they're trying to calm the situation down there, riding in with a truck full of guns probably isn't the best idea, Chuck. ;)

I watched a lot of coverage today, and I think I've never been more ashamed of certain parts of my nation than I am now. The Sec of State had a press conference, and spent about ten minutes fielding reworded questions like "Do you think that the response was slow because NO is full of poor black people?"

Ridiculous!! It makes me furious to think that people are drawing race lines in the dirt over this. That just feeds the problem, not the solution!! The thing is - they're people. We're trying to get help to them. Doesn't help that some people are shooting at/beating away people who are trying to get in to HELP them. Gee, that's grateful.

Like Ryla said, it's not like we can just BEAM supplies down to you. It takes a little time to gather resources, and now things are finally coming together as far as relief. (even the horrible Bush said that efforts to this point have been terrible, omgwtf, isn't he the problem?? :rolleyes)

As far as 'money being diverted from N.O's levees, the fact is, priorities were made after 9/11, and things have continued forward since that point in time. Blame Al Qaida, if you want to.

[Dutchy]

BTW, gas prices have gone up to $7.30/gallon here because of Katrina.

[Dutchy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20050903/ts_nm/mayhem_dc

What a sad, sad story...

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
As far as 'money being diverted from N.O's levees, the fact is, priorities were made after 9/11, and things have continued forward since that point in time. Blame Al Qaida, if you want to.

It's also likely more people died as a result of Katrina than in 9/11 Holly.:x

You did just make me think of something. Can you imagine a more obvious target of terrorism than a rebuilt New Orleans levee system?

[Ryla Relvinian]

Ugh, that article is just skin-crawling.

God I wish I could just go and help... Argh.

[CMJ]

http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ap/20050904/ap_on_re_us/katrina_mississippi_hk2

Lest Mississippi is forgotten.

[Kathryn]

Dear God..........

Why is response taking so long? Boots on the Ground from the military don't take this amount of time, says THIS veteran.

It's gotta be the d****d politicians.

[Shawn]

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/03/katrina.world.aid/index.html
The oil-rich nation of Qatar has offered the United States $100 million to assist in the humanitarian crisis triggered by Hurricane Katrina.

[...]

Mexico has offered $1 million and is sending 15 truckloads of water, food and medical supplies via Texas. The Mexican navy has offered to send two ships, two helicopters and 15 amphibious vehicles.

Australia is giving A$10 million ($7.6 million), most of it to the American Red Cross.

China has offered $5 million

India is making a $5 million donation to the American Red Cross, Ambassador Ronen Sen said Saturday. In addition, Sen said India was willing to donate essential medicines to the relief effort.

Germany has offered a wide range of assistance including evacuation by air, medical services, transportation services, water treatment capabilities, assistance in searching for victims, vaccination teams and supplies, and emergency shelter. Germany has also said it is ready and willing to "dip into its own emergency oil reserves" to release some 2 million barrels a day for 30 days.

Cuba's President Fidel Castro said on Friday his nation was ready to send 1,100 doctors and 26 tons of medicine and equipment.

President (of Venezuela) Hugo Chavez, a vocal critic of the United States, offered to send cheap fuel, humanitarian aid and relief workers to the disaster area.

Saudi Refining, a Houston-based subsidiary of state oil firm Saudi Aramco, will donate $5 million to the American Red Cross to support relief efforts for victims of Hurricane Katrina.

[Yog]

Good to hear there is some international effort :)

I have to say though, I am a little puzzled how long everything takes, even on the most basic level. I mean, this is not excactly Africa is it. You have the most powerful military in the world. A whole fleet of choppers and airplanes gathering dust in the desert (which could have been used to drop supplies). Thousands of trucks, amphibious and all terrain vessels. A huge navy laying idle on the docs of your vast coastline. You got the manpower. There is also certainly enough willingness to help, proved by Charleys and several other posts here. But where is the leadership and initiative on administrative level? What is the most powerful man in the world doing? How long did he stay on vacation in Crawford and travel to other places in US while bodies were floating in New Orleans? He had a "briefing" on what was it.. thursday? Thats at least 4 days late pal. One thing is to do little or nothing, but the very least he could do is try. Finally, it seems he clued in to the fact he got to get ball rolling and the rescue efforts are starting to move along, although still painfully slow.

I dont care what side of the political fence you are on, that matters not here. But quite frankly, the way this crisis has been handled so far is allmost as shocking as the photos, video and reports from the disaster itself. Lets hope the aid comes in to help those in need right now.


You did just make me think of something. Can you imagine a more obvious target of terrorism than a rebuilt New Orleans levee system?

One stratecially placed TNT/C4. Booom. NO is flooded :x


BTW, gas prices have gone up to $7.30/gallon here because of Katrina.

About the same here. Its gone up all over the world. There are surely going to be long term effects to the oil and petrol fuel market. $70 per barrel may not be a milestone that stands long in the months ahead. And keep in mind, prices are a function of demand vs supply. With the growing demand, especially in booming economies like China, the prices should just continue to go up. There needs to be alternatives. Maybe its time converting to ethanol fuel (my dad got a car like that), hydrogen and hybrid motors.

Which reminds me, if there is any correlation between human contributed global warming and the increased hurricane activity (and I do believe there is a connection), the way mother nature hit the oil market is fairly ironic.

[CMJ]

Which reminds me, if there is any correlation between human contributed global warming and the increased hurricane activity (and I do believe there is a connection), the way mother nature hit the oil market is fairly ironic.

It would be, but I could show you statistics that say this period of increased activity is not unusual. The Atlantic has cycles of increased activity, the last one ending in 1969. The currect active cycle started in 1995.

Here ya go.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/pastdec.shtml

[Jedi Master Carr]

Its impossible to say if global warming has anything to do with it or not. It will take decades to prove or disprove it, IMO.

[CMJ]

True Carr. But let's say it looks unlikely based on statistics.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the theory is that global warming makes hurricanes more powerful not more of them. At least that is what I have been hearing on the News.

[CMJ]

If you look, we had a decade where 10 major storms hit the US. I'm just saying this "unprecedented" activity we are seeing isn't really unprecendented.

[Sanis Prent]

Bad news: I won't be able to volunteer through Red Cross until Tuesday at earliest :(

Good news: We're taking refugees at the UA campus in Tuscaloosa, so I'm going to try and volunteer at the rec center tomorrow morning.

[Callista]

I just have to put out my friend's story 'cause it's the worst thing ever...

I went to school with a girl who moved down to the coast of Mississippi. Her parents hadn't heard from her since lines are down and cellphones are uber busy. Guess they got ahold of her the other day finally and the only things she has left are in her car and she's having to guard it with a gun. How insane is that? People are that retarded down there that others have to guard themselves and belongings with guns.

Anyway...she doesn't have enough gas to get anywhere where gas is. Her parents would go down to get her, but her father JUST had a heartattack and is now in the hospital. She's worrying about her father in the hospital, they're worrying about her safety. It's a real Sheity deal and I want to help so badly.

I really wish I could go down and volunteer.

[Wyl Staedtler]

I was on a cruise around the Hawaiian islands when this happened, and was hanging out in the crew quarters watching CNN practically all week--we all felt so guilty, sitting in nice rooms with waaaaay more food than we could eat. The cruise line (NCL) quickly set up a fund and I think everyone on the ship except for a few people donated. This is so horrible.

One of my brother's best friend is from NO; thankfully he was off in Jersey visiting his girlfriend, but he hasn't heard from his mom and with every new report he's more convinced she didn't make it. :(

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Callista
I just have to put out my friend's story 'cause it's the worst thing ever...

I went to school with a girl who moved down to the coast of Mississippi. Her parents hadn't heard from her since lines are down and cellphones are uber busy. Guess they got ahold of her the other day finally and the only things she has left are in her car and she's having to guard it with a gun. How insane is that? People are that retarded down there that others have to guard themselves and belongings with guns.

Anyway...she doesn't have enough gas to get anywhere where gas is. Her parents would go down to get her, but her father JUST had a heartattack and is now in the hospital. She's worrying about her father in the hospital, they're worrying about her safety. It's a real Sheity deal and I want to help so badly.

I really wish I could go down and volunteer.

If it were that simple, I'd be down there. To be blunt, you'll run out of fuel at or before Hattiesburg. Anything that's stocked that far south is being confiscated.

We've got a guy that does on-site repairs for my company who's been marooned down there with the clothes on his back and a car with no gas. His work van is destroyed, along with a few thousand dollars of equipment inside. His house which he started renting weeks ago got broken into before the hurricane, and the appliances stolen. He replaced it all just to lose it again when the hurricane struck, and he hasn't had enough time to get renter's insurance. Since he moved down to Biloxi, he's lost everything except his family.

I understand your predicament Callista. I really do. I've got so many friends and loved ones on the gulf coast that its tearing me apart. Until the fuel situation is resolved, we aren't going to be helping anybody by going down there. I've got enough guns that I don't doubt I can help keep jerks at bay, but its just not going to help right now unless I start hijacking fuel from people, and then who are the good guys here?

Go volunteer at the Red Cross. They will match your skill set with your free time and put you to work where you will help the most. Even if you're just helping some evacuees have fun at a shelter and get their minds off of this mess, that's a massive amount of help. I've done enough work at homeless shelters to know that sometimes it's the least effort that means the most.

[Callista]

Yeah :( guess you're right on that one. I commend you for volunteering so much! Colorado is doing a lot in terms of support. We have a ton of people coming in to stay at our military bases, which is cool, so I'm sure there's tons I could do. :)

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Originally posted by CMJ
It's also likely more people died as a result of Katrina than in 9/11 Holly.:x

You did just make me think of something. Can you imagine a more obvious target of terrorism than a rebuilt New Orleans levee system? I didn't mean to imply that 9/11 was worse (although it was a devestating ATTACK, not a natural disaster), just that after 9/11 the money NOLA wanted for their levees wasn't given to them because priorities were changed at that point in time.

I agree with you CMJ, it isn't Bush's fault, because this has been warned about since a long time before he came around. Something should have been done years and years ago.

[Sanis Prent]

Let me describe the scene I saw today on my way home from s'Il's house.

Interstate 59 links between Slidell, Louisiana up to Chattanooga, Tennessee. Thus, it's a major thoroughfare to get to New Orleans. It's also the major artery between s'Il's hometown (Tuscaloosa) and mine (Birmingham).

I-59 Northbound was FULL of charter buses. I counted probably 50 or more along my way northeast. Various lines and models. Most had tinted windows, so I couldn't really get a look at the folks inside. Wanted to wave to them, and welcome them up here.

I-59 South was a river of aid vehicles. I saw a convoy of perhaps 30 police squad cars from various precincts in one area. Another area I saw an equal number of EMS vehicles and ambulances. Still in another area on the I-459 bypass in Birmingham, I saw an army convoy of perhaps 50 vehicles, pausing on the shoulder to regroup. There were soldiers everywhere, most taking a little time to stretch their legs and lay down on the tops of their vehicles while they waited to roll out again.

It was pretty awe inspiring to see all this, just in my brief hour drive back home.

[Pierce Tondry]

Wow. I wish I had a picture of that.

[CMJ]

Nice summary.

http://www.bradenton.com/mld/bradenton/news/local/12556445.htm

[Morgan Evanar]

I have a friend that might be moving in with me. He's got his car and the clothes on his back, pretty much.

[Kathryn]

'ey! Kathryn / Clea Darkrunner here.

If somebody who's been evacuated needs a quilt, let me know. If it's only a few, I can make them. More than a few, I can mobilize others.

Why? *shrug* Can't donate money (student) and they won't take my blood or body, 'cuz I'm a diabetic. Gotta do SOMETHING !

Prayers and best wishes for you all.

Karen Dombek

(Me too, on the blood, Lilaena. Was stationed in Europe during the 80s. They're afraid I'll froth at the mouth and go "MOO")

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I can't donate blood either, they're afraid I'm going to transmit Mad Cow disease. :(

[Sanis Prent]

If anybody wants to donate money, I've created a thread here so please post in it.

[JMK]

Did anyone see CNN this morning? They had a story about 3 Duke students who drove from NC to NO to help out. They were rejected when they tried to get into the city, so they went to Baton Rouge, volunteered there, then got a hold of a press pass, made some fake copies and snuck into NO with them, right up to the convention center to help out. Great story.

[CMJ]

Michael Moore is thinking about doing a documentary on the storm. :rolleyes

Sure other filmmakers will deal on how Bush's response to the crisis was below standard, but only Moore will tell us why and how Dubya diverted Katrina to hit New Orleans.

:smokin

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL well that is Moore. I am glad they finally fired that Brown, he should have never been running FEMA he had no experience.

[CMJ]

Well, to be fair - Brown did a helluva job with the 4 storms last year. I'm not sure anyone would've been up to Katrina.

Nonethless, this quote from Kate Hale, former Miami-Dade emergency management chief was golden.

"[Michael Brown has] done a hell of a job, because I'm not aware of any Arabian horses being killed in this storm".

:lol :lol

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think he did a poor job, I know the media has been really hard on him including CNN they made him look incompetent. And then Time Magazine today said he had no experience for this job and he lied on his resume about one job that he didn't even actually do.

[CMJ]

I'm not denying he did a sub-standard job. But he proved last year he isn't incompetent. Four hurricanes in about a 2 month time span, and FEMA did a wonderful job by and large.

Not sure anyone could've dealt with Katrina well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Although I am not saying I know why the 4 storms last year were dealt with better, but a real cynic could say it was an election year. It may not have been that Bill Scholoboro (sp) was on Bill Mahr tonight and he blamed it on the fact everbody in Washington was on vacation. Maybe that is the case although they should have some type of contingency plan in that case.

[Sanis Prent]

Mandatory firearm confiscations have begun in Orleans and other parishes. Time to make efforts to prevent my government from pulling the same kind of garbage in my own backyard. This is yet another massive slice of travesty in this whole mess.

Anyone on the gulf who can read this - if you own firearms, time to consider "losing" them when the men in black come knocking on your door. Damn fascists.

[Liam Jinn]

In my opinion it's for a good reason, the safety of police and others still stuck in NO without the ability to protect themselves.

You have the right to protect yourself, but c'mon, some of the stuff that's happened there regarding fire arms is ridiculous.

[Sanis Prent]

That still does not warrant disarming the population by any means whatsoever.

The police and national guard have already shown a failure on a grand scale to provide protection and support for the residents in the storm area. It should be more apparent now than ever before that the responsibility for your personal safety belongs to YOU. You and you alone. The police and national guard are controlled by politicians. They are not omnipresent. They are to some degree corrupted by lawlessness themselves.

To any cops who comply with these Gestapo orders: want to take my means of defense away? Better have a reason to do so. As in charges. Arrest me, read me my mirandas, and clench your cheeks to hope that I don't cast a grievance so far up the court system that the last thing you do as a cop is read meters for the rest of your life.

If not, get bent. Leave me alone and do the job you are supposedly paid for. I'm not breaking any laws. I'm taking care of number one.

I won't be suprised at all if some law-abiding citizens and some enforcing police and guardsmen get killed over this. And you know what? I don't know if I can really fault the citizens if it comes to it.

[Liam Jinn]

I understand everyone has the right to protect themselves, but when certain individuals take pot shots at rescue and aid workers, I believe that taking the weapons away is a valid way of confronting this problem. Sure, every American is entitled to their right to bear arms, but when it endangers other innocent lives, then the right to bear arms, I believe, should not be the most important right to uphold.

[Sanis Prent]

Yeah people are idiots and they're idiots all of the time, even without hurricanes to conveniently make the incident "singular and isolated". Or did random murders start after this hurricane hit? I don't really think we're seeing a new thing, so why is this really any different?

And man are your priorities in a jumble. When danger is highest, our right to bear arms and protect ourselves is paramount.

[Milivikal k'Vik]

I disagree. The indivduals who are shooting at people have violated the law and should be dealt with appropriately. Why should the people who are trying to protect themselvse be disarmed?

[Jedieb]

It's ridiculous to blame Bush for Katrina. Cheney has to be blamed as well!

I think it's extremely unfair for some people to start accusing the Bush administration of ignoring the victims of Katrina because they black and poor. But, you occupy the office, you take the heat, whether it's fair or not. As gas stays around $3 and slows the economy, his approval ratings will keep taking hits. It'll be interesting to see if this will have any effect in the 06 elections.

[Liam Jinn]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
Yeah people are idiots and they're idiots all of the time, even without hurricanes to conveniently make the incident "singular and isolated". Or did random murders start after this hurricane hit? I don't really think we're seeing a new thing, so why is this really any different?

And man are your priorities in a jumble. When danger is highest, our right to bear arms and protect ourselves is paramount.


Sure it is, but why would we have any sort of law enforcement if we could just as easily take the law into our own hands?

Look, the police and military have the exact same right to protect themselves. If that means disarming potential hostiles, then by all means, I encourage them to do it. I'm not saying that people should leave themselves defenseless, but I still don't think it's a bad start trying to take up all the firearms they can get they're hands on.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
Sure it is, but why would we have any sort of law enforcement if we could just as easily take the law into our own hands?

Look, the police and military have the exact same right to protect themselves. If that means disarming potential hostiles, then by all means, I encourage them to do it. I'm not saying that people should leave themselves defenseless, but I still don't think it's a bad start trying to take up all the firearms they can get they're hands on.

This has nothing to do with taking the law into your own hands. We as citizens are afforded the right to self defense.

The police and military actually operate on completely different levels. They follow rules of engagement that may or may not coincide with the same self defense concepts that we all hold.

The police are simply not authorized to bend/break the law as they please because it makes their job easier. That isn't how policing works, and that's why we have other nice amendments such as number four, which may I also add is being blatantly violated here.

Also, how do people defend themselves without the firearms they legally own?

[Jedieb]

My best friend has just been activiated by the Coast Guard and he's over in NO right now. He's had to take leave from the Oakland police force to serve in NO right now. If he has to disarm some nimrod walking around in plain view to protect himself then so be it. He shouldn't have to go in anyone's home and go after their weapons, but you can bet that he'll do whatever he needs to protect himself and the people he's working with.

[Liam Jinn]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
This has nothing to do with taking the law into your own hands. We as citizens are afforded the right to self defense.

The police and military actually operate on completely different levels. They follow rules of engagement that may or may not coincide with the same self defense concepts that we all hold.

The police are simply not authorized to bend/break the law as they please because it makes their job easier. That isn't how policing works, and that's why we have other nice amendments such as number four, which may I also add is being blatantly violated here.

Also, how do people defend themselves without the firearms they legally own?

Sorry man, I'm not a firm believer that guns will solve all the problems that people go through. Apparently, guns are the answer to you, so to each his own.

[Sanis Prent]

No, I simply support the option of choice. If somebody wishes to be pro-active about their personal safety, then they should be given the full means to do such as provided by the most basic framework of our government. If they don't, then again it is their choice.

The choice, however, does not belong to the government, nor to their soldiers and police forces.

[Liam Jinn]

Even though that those people, soldiers and police forces, are looking out for us, risking their lives on our own soil to keep the peace?

And ironically enough, the choice does belong to them, whether or not you believe it.

[Jedieb]

I was just in Hawaii for my best friend's wedding. The day before he left for Maui he had to draw his gun during an arrest. Just a typical arrest of an arson suspect and he came within one stupid decision on the part of hysterical woman of having to shoot someone. Now, let's multiply that by 100 and you still may not be able to descrbe the situations law enforcement, both civilian and military, are having to deal with whle trying to maintain order and help Katrina victims. My friend will do whatever he has to do his job. He's not waking hoping he'll get to snatch someone's precious .45. He just wants to do his job without using his put them down. If that means confiscating some guns then so be it.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
Even though that those people, soldiers and police forces, are looking out for us, risking their lives on our own soil to keep the peace?

And ironically enough, the choice does belong to them, whether or not you believe it.

I honestly don't care what sales pitch you give me about the cops and guard. Most of them are stand-up and I applaud the ones that are. I've seen my fair share of corruption from them even in this single incident however. I refuse to trust them over myself.

As for the choice, no it does not. Do you understand the concept of inalienable rights? I'm as of yet unaware of the vast majority of federal legislative action to put repealing amendments into the Constitution to negate any of the Bill of Rights. If they don't have that, then they do not have such authority and are acting as authoritarian despots, against the will and principles of this country.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I was just in Hawaii for my best friend's wedding. The day before he left for Maui he had to draw his gun during an arrest. Just a typical arrest of an arson suspect and he came within one stupid decision on the part of hysterical woman of having to shoot someone. Now, let's multiply that by 100 and you still may not be able to descrbe the situations law enforcement, both civilian and military, are having to deal with whle trying to maintain order and help Katrina victims. My friend will do whatever he has to do his job. He's not waking hoping he'll get to snatch someone's precious .45. He just wants to do his job without using his put them down. If that means confiscating some guns then so be it.

If we're in that kind of primal order of survival for our service members, then I say more power to civilians to do the same. Just hope he doesn't go kicking down any front doors in the lower 9th ward to pull somebody's Mossberg 500 or anything. I honestly don't know what I would do if put in that situation. Lethal retaliation is pretty high on the list to be honest.

[Shawn]

I don't think Charley is making his point clear enough. I think we all can understand why they're confiscating weapons. However, they have no legal right at all to do so. AFAIK, they haven't even declared martial law.

To say that the wholesale violation of the second amendment without any legal backing is a "slippery slope" would be like saying that scaling an iceberg in tennis shoes is "a bit tricky."

[Liam Jinn]

Originally posted by Sanis Prent
I honestly don't care what sales pitch you give me about the cops and guard. Most of them are stand-up and I applaud the ones that are. I've seen my fair share of corruption from them even in this single incident however. I refuse to trust them over myself.

As for the choice, no it does not. Do you understand the concept of inalienable rights? I'm as of yet unaware of the vast majority of federal legislative action to put repealing amendments into the Constitution to negate any of the Bill of Rights. If they don't have that, then they do not have such authority and are acting as authoritarian despots, against the will and principles of this country.

You understand that this amendment was put into place to protect us from foreign invaders...right?

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Shawn
I don't think Charley is making his point clear enough. I think we all can understand why they're confiscating weapons. However, they have no legal right at all to do so. AFAIK, they haven't even declared martial law.

Correct. They've declared it as a "State of Emergency" whatever that means. I don't think the federals really want to sever NOLA PD out of this cluster of bees, and I think they're staying close to them in order to share culpability in a CYA after-action.

But hey! The great thing about this is we can really make up the rules as we go. Note how the Federals have given the nod to let Blackwater Security operate in the zone with weapons hot. Double standards much?

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
You understand that this amendment was put into place to protect us from foreign invaders...right?

Such as national guardsmen illegally kicking my front door in? Okay.

Also, I think you're really trying to artificially narrow the scope and intent of the amendment. Doesn't really peg it to one specific end. Just labels such a thing as being necessary.

[Liam Jinn]

So let me ask you this - If the guns weren't confiscated, this NO tragedy would come to a close sooner? Does it really need to go to a state of Martial Law in order to remedy whats going on?

[Sanis Prent]

Logical fallacy. Don't try to argue the expediency of the security process when I am discussing the legal legs it stands on. They are two different things so treat them differently.

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
So let me ask you this - If the guns weren't confiscated, this NO tragedy would come to a close sooner? No. The people who want to do horrible things are going to find another way to do them. Human animals are damn good at finding ways to kill other things.

Also, the admendment was put in place to protect the people in this country from tyrrany, including any that my be generated by any government.

[Shawn]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
You understand that this amendment was put into place to protect us from foreign invaders...right? You are so wrong, it's sad. No, that amendment was put into place so that we could revolt against our government if it ever became necessary. Or did you forget that that our forefathers had just finished fighting a war against their own government when they penned it?

I should also point out that this violates not only the 2nd amendment, but the 4th, 5th, and possibly the 14th, as well.

[Jedieb]

I could care less what sales pitch a gun nut gives me about his interpretation of the second amendment. (Wow, aren't blanket generalizations great!) I want my best friend to do his job and come home to his wife. Believe me, when he comes home he'll have a great laugh about the constitutional experts he disarmed that day.

Again, I don't think the Guard should be going door to door grabbing every gun in sight. But some Guardsman gets a tip, or has probable cause then you're losing your tommy gun. He'll worry about your rights later. I won't lose any sleep over it. Wait, what was that outside? The Man is coming to get me!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :lol

[Shawn]

Everything that the NO government is doing at the moment is illegal. If that doesn't concern you, then that's your business. Here's some pretzels, enjoy the game. But some people actually care when that pesky little document called the "Bill of Rights" gets tossed out the window.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I could care less what sales pitch a gun nut gives me about his interpretation of the second amendment. (Wow, aren't blanket generalizations great!) I want my best friend to do his job and come home to his wife. Believe me, when he comes home he'll have a great laugh about the constitutional experts he disarmed that day.

Again, I don't think the Guard should be going door to door grabbing every gun in sight. But some Guardsman gets a tip, or has probable cause then you're losing your tommy gun. He'll worry about your rights later. I won't lose any sleep over it. Wait, what was that outside? The Man is coming to get me!!!!!!!!!!! AHHHHHHHHHHHHHH! :lol

Exactly what does probable cause equate to in this situation then? Sounds more arbitrary in your hypothetical than anything else, and without any kind of backing other than coming from some grunt in digicam camo, people are going to get hurt.

Your hilarious attempts to debase and water down my very clear and present grievances isn't exactly giving you any kind of leg to stand on here. Add some more emoticons its really hilarious oh man.

[Liam Jinn]

Yeah, you're right, what are a few lives as long as the legal system remains intact.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
Yeah, you're right, what are a few lives as long as the legal system remains intact.

3000 people up and died four years ago to the day and all we got was the department of Homeland Security, the Patriot Act, and this stupid T-shirt.

Forgive me for not only imagining, but expecting and now actually seeing the same lightning striking twice.

Assuming I actually want the carnage in exchange for the maintaining of civil liberties is yet another pretty huge logical fallacy. You won't get anywhere trying to paint me with it.

[Jedieb]

Wow, I just got off the phone with my friend. It's a friggin' nightmare over there. Everything from bus stations being used as makeshift police stations, to people taking pot shots at rescue workers, choppers, cops, and civilians. The last thing he wants to do is take a weapon away from a "richeous" person. People are staying behind to try to protect their property, but they're putting themselves and law enforcement in danger. As for house to house searches, yeah, they're doing them. Only they're not looking for guns, they're looking for BODIES. Oh, the evil!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Shawn
You are so wrong, it's sad. No, that amendment was put into place so that we could revolt against our government if it ever became necessary. Or did you forget that that our forefathers had just finished fighting a war against their own government when they penned it?

I should also point out that this violates not only the 2nd amendment, but the 4th, 5th, and possibly the 14th, as well.

Here's an interesting hypothetical for you, what happens when the National Guard commandeers homes to use as bases of operation or other parts of their operational infrastructure?

[Liam Jinn]

Oh, and Martial Law was declared last saturday in NO, so they have every bit of authority to claim firearms from citizens. Just read that.

[Sanis Prent]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
Oh, and Martial Law was declared last saturday in NO, so they have every bit of authority to claim firearms from citizens. Just read that.

Cite it please.

[Shawn]

Originally posted by Liam Jinn
Oh, and Martial Law was declared last saturday in NONo, it has not.

http://www.cnn.com/2005/LAW/09/08/martial.law.qanda/index.html
Q. Has martial law been declared in Louisiana?

A. No.

"People are using that term far too loosely," said Duke University School of Law professor Scott Silliman. "Martial law can only be imposed by a governor or the president of the United States when there is a total absence of any governing authority (meaning no courts, etc). Martial law allows the federal military to come in to preserve the country."

This has not happened.A State of Emergency has been declared, except that they haven't actually followed procedure on it. For more information, see http://www.volokh.com/posts/1126317466.shtml
The Compass order appears to be plainly illegal. Under section 1983 of the federal Civil Rights law, any government employee who assists in the illegal confiscation would appear to be personally liable to a civil lawsuit. Moreover, higher-ranking officials--such as the National Guard officers who have ordered their troops to participate in the confiscation--would seem to be proper subjects for impeachment or other removal from office (and attendant forfeiture of pensions), depending on the procedures of their particular state.

All police officers, National Guard troops, and U.S. Marshals take an oath to uphold the Constitution and the laws. It appears that carrying out an illegal order to confiscate lawfully-owned firearms from homes would be inconsistent with the oath, contrary to sworn duty, and perhaps a criminal act.

[Liam Jinn]

http://www.wdsu.com/news/4915310/detail.html

"as far as "martial law" goes, it doesnt actually exist in louisiana law, but by declaring a state of emergency they give the authorities a very wide ability to suspend all civil liberties as they try to restore order"

"Under the Louisiana Homeland Security and Emergency Assistance and Disaster Act of 1993, the governor and, in some cases, chief parish officials, have the right to commandeer or utilize any private property if necessary to cope with the emergency.

Authorities may also suspend any statute related to the conduct of official business, or any rule issued by a state agency, if complying would "prevent, hinder or delay necessary action'' to mitigate the emergency.

It also gives authority the right to compel evacuations, suspend alcohol and weapons sales and make provisions for the availability and use of temporary emergency housing.

The law gives mayors similar authority, except they do not have the right to commandeer private property or make provisions for emergency housing, according to a background brief prepared by the state Attorney General's office."

http://www.nola.com/newslogs/breakingtp/index.ssf?/mtlogs/nola_Times-Picayune/archives/2005_08_30.html#075262

[Shawn]

And, as you'll see in my post above your's, that's not martial law. That's a State of Emergency.

Now, there are two-fold issues with NOLA declaring a State of Emergency. In case you don't want to wade through the article I posted above, allow me to highlight the important parts:
First, there are the procedural issues. According to subsection B, emergency orders must be published in a newspaper in the jurisdiction; the Times-Picayune is heroically publishing on-line, but I did not find any evidence, on Friday night, of any publication of the gun confiscation order, whose implementation had already begun on Thursday. According to subsection C, an emergency order must also be filed with the court in the relevant parish (impossible under current conditions), and with the Secretary of State (whose office in Baton Rouge is entirely functional). The Secretary's website gives no indication that a gun confiscation order has been filed.
The more serious issue is the substantive one. The emergency statute creates authority for "prohibiting" some things, and for "regulating" other things. [...] Quite clearly the legislature meant to distinguish "prohibiting" authority from "regulating" authority. In the context of the statute, it is not plausible to claim that "prohibiting" means the same as "regulating."

"Prohibiting" authority applies to the sale of alcohol, presence on public streets, and the sale of goods or services at excessive prices. "Regulating" authority applies to firearms, flammable materials, and sound devices (such as megaphones). The "regulating" authority is undoubtedly broad. But it is not equivalent to "prohibiting." The statute does not authorize the New Orleans Police--abetted by the National Guard and the U.S. Marshalls--to break into homes, point guns at people, and confiscate every single private firearm--or every single private bullhorn or private cigarette lighter.They have not followed any procedure and, more importantly, would not be able to do what they're doing even if they had.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They should declare Martial law if that is the only way to get everybody out of there. Nobody should be in that city unless they are a moron. Cholera is forming in the waters they would be dead within a month from that. And who those what else will from in there from Malaria to Yellow Fever (Mosquitoes are everywhere there). The President should declare Martial law on the city and then get everybody out of there and if they have to kill the thugs who are are taking pot shots at rescue workers then so be it.

[Sanis Prent]

Where did you hear that cholera was in the water? Last I heard, the EPA had tested positive for strains of bacteria that were in the same family, but were not cholera.

If it is deemed necessary to declare Martial Law, then so be it. They should take the steps necessary to do so. If they want to declare a true state of emergency, then take the steps to do so.

They have done neither, because nobody wants to own up to the political consequences for doing so. So they cut corners and expect the people to just roll over and accept it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I heard it on CNN I think. Somebody for CNN tested the waters and reported back that there was some cholera in them, this was Friday I believe. Honestly the EPA is a joke now, Bush has cut off most of the funding to that agency, the last director quit (Whitman) quit because of that.

[CMJ]

Current death toll is being listed as 423 which, according the NHC, makes it the 6th deadliest hurricanes in US history(well since 1851 anyways).

Here's the link.

http://www.nhc.noaa.gov/gifs/table2.gif

[Jedi Master Carr]

Going to be a while before we get an exact figure there. Also is there any record of Hurricanes before 1851? Just curious, the Spainards ruled Florida starting in the late 16th century and then there are colonial settlements in Charleston, Savannah, etc going back to the 17th century. Just wondering if there is anything in the historical record.

[Pierce Tondry]

Where did you hear that cholera was in the water? Last I heard, the EPA had tested positive for strains of bacteria that were in the same family, but were not cholera.

I've also heard on CNN that there are some tests coming up positive for it. Same source, so it could be wrong, but if it's true that doesn't bode well.


If it is deemed necessary to declare Martial Law, then so be it. They should take the steps necessary to do so. If they want to declare a true state of emergency, then take the steps to do so.

They have done neither, because nobody wants to own up to the political consequences for doing so. So they cut corners and expect the people to just roll over and accept it.

Accurate to a tee. I was pissed before, but now I am starting to get angry at this debacle. Handling of most everything regarding this business has been shoddy across the board.

[CMJ]

Carr - there are hurricanes in the historical record, but the info is hazy by and large. Hell even Christopher Coumbus encountered acouple(and lost some ships in them).

As far as FL is concerned.


Though other storms came before, it was in 1559 that Spanish Explorers recorded the first hurricane in Florida, The Great Tempest. It demolished 7 of 13 Don Tristan de Luna y Arreland's ships at anchor in what is now known as Pensacola Bay. This hurricane deterred Spain from attempting to colonize the area again for another 164 years

[Jedieb]

Newsweek slammed bush today.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9287434/

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thanks CMJ I was always curious about and figured you know :) Yeah I read that whole article Jedieb, it is very condeming a lot of it sound like a bueracritic mess.

[Sanis Prent]

For those who haven't seen it, they showed Isaac's Storm on the History Channel tonight. Great look at the buildup to the Galveston hurricane of 1900.

[CMJ]

Fantastic documentary. Even better book. Too bad Sean Astin's company bought the rights to it, making my screenplay of the Galveston storm a no seller. :cry

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am sorry to hear that, so does that mean a movie is coming?

[CMJ]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I am sorry to hear that, so does that mean a movie is coming?

Who knows? Studios can sit on books for years. Just because they have the rights doesn't mean a movie is coming anytime soon. Forest Gump took over a decade. Others take just acouple years. Or it might never be made....but the fact that someone MIGHT will scare other studios away from buying a similar script.

[CMJ]

Hurricane Katrina death tolls reported by state and local officials as of Monday:

ALABAMA: 2
FLORIDA: 14
GEORGIA: 2
LOUISIANA: 279
MISSISSIPPI: 218

TOTAL: 515

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by CMJ
Who knows? Studios can sit on books for years. Just because they have the rights doesn't mean a movie is coming anytime soon. Forest Gump took over a decade. Others take just acouple years. Or it might never be made....but the fact that someone MIGHT will scare other studios away from buying a similar script.
That sucks sorry to hear that.

About the death toll how high will it go? Some general said the 10k figure was overestimated, but who knows. I am still betting it is around a thousand which is very sad.

[CMJ]

I'm somewhat skeptical of the death toll. If there are under a thousand bodies in NO either it's a miracle, or a conspiracy.

And I am NOT a conspiracy theorist.

BTW- latest number I found was 646 deaths.