obi wan and yoda

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I had a sudden thought - due to Jedieb's extensive quote for day 9 in the countdown ;). Obi-Wan says that Luke is their last hope, but Yoda said "No. There is another." Can it be possible Obi-Wan doesn't know about Leia either? Before I'd always thought that Obi-Wan was being overly melodramatic, but...

Everyone else who is spoiled to death is probably laughing at me, so if you KNOW the answer, spoiler tag it. If you aren't spoiled and want to speculate, feel free. *basks in private inspiration*

[JMK]

I think we've talked about this in the past, but I can't remember the specifics of the conversation.

It was also brought up in an active thread recently...

I think (I'm not spoiled to this end) that Obi Wan HAS to be oblivious to Leia...but how that will be achieved is beyond me.

[AmazonBabe]

Mmmm... I dunno. I think Obi-Wan did know about Leia, though perhaps he didn't think she had any potential?

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Darth Vader says in RotJ: "Obi Wan was wise to hide her from me."

He knew about her all along, but simply failed to remember that there was "another" last hope.

[Jedieb]

Everyone else who is spoiled to death is probably laughing at me, so if you KNOW the answer, spoiler tag it. If you aren't spoiled and want to speculate, feel free. *basks in private inspiration*
:lol
We're not laughing AT you, we're laughing WITH you. ;)

Hey, we're down to the final days. I'm posting some of my favorite scenes. I'm trying to pick a different one each day. I may do some scenes from the ROTS novel just to torture LD. :evil

As for Obi-Wan ignoring Leia, it's understandable. Especially when you go back to his "pathetic lifeform" comment from TPM. I mean, who would expect a CHICK to save the galaxy?:hat

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Originally posted by Jedieb
As for Obi-Wan ignoring Leia, it's understandable. Especially when you go back to his "pathetic lifeform" comment from TPM. I mean, who would expect a CHICK to save the galaxy?:hat

Exactly. Obi-Wan is everybody's alcoholic, misogynistic, racist grandpa.

With a lightsaber.

[Doc Milo]

It's always possible, IMHO, that Obi-Wan ignored Leia as a "hope" because he saw no way in which Leia could now be trained. Luke was lead to Obi-Wan in ANH. Obi-Wan was now dead. Luke was placed on a path and Leia placed on another path. In order for Leia to be the "hope" they sought, Leia would have to somehow be placed on the same path as Luke. But how -- who would lead her to Yoda? How would she be trained in the Jedi arts? Obi-Wan, perhaps, is showing a bit of lack of faith in the Force himself (maybe a remnant of his more "reckless" days?) and doesn't forsee any way in which Leia can be placed on the path upon which Luke had been placed. Yoda, on the other hand, might be showing a total faith that the Force would find a way to place Leia on that path should Luke be turned... So, since Obi-Wan sees no way for Leia to be placed on the path, he says "that boy is our last hope." And since Yoda has total faith in the Force, he replies, "No, there is another."

[JMK]

That sounds pretty good...I just find it very presumptuous on Lucas' part to leave it to DIEHARD fans to figure all this stuff out. I'm sure the casual fan scratches their head and says WTF??

We pontificate about this stuff all the time and only now are making any sense of it.


Darth Vader says in RotJ: "Obi Wan was wise to hide her from me."
True, I had forgotten about that line, but it could be that Obi Wan had nothing to do with Leia. Maybe they were split up at birth and their locations were totally unknown so as to protect them. Perhaps Vader claiming that Obi Wan was wise to hide her was merely Anakin once again blaming Obi Wan for something that really wasn't his fault.

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Originally posted by JMKTrue, I had forgotten about that line, but it could be that Obi Wan had nothing to do with Leia. Maybe they were split up at birth and their locations were totally unknown so as to protect them. Perhaps Vader claiming that Obi Wan was wise to hide her was merely Anakin once again blaming Obi Wan for something that really wasn't his fault.

Alright, you want the Episode III answer, here it is:

Obi Wan is aware of everything about Leia, from the start

[JMK]

Hmmm, that being the case my first point in my last post will stick in my craw now.

[Rognan Dar]

Originally posted by JMK
True, I had forgotten about that line, but it could be that Obi Wan had nothing to do with Leia. Maybe they were split up at birth and their locations were totally unknown so as to protect them. Perhaps Vader claiming that Obi Wan was wise to hide her was merely Anakin once again blaming Obi Wan for something that really wasn't his fault.

Going off of your thought there, and without refuring to the spoiler, Vader thinks Obi did everything with Luke. He made many mentions to Obi Wan teaching Luke well. Obi Wan hardly did any "teaching" before he was killed. So Vader is really clueless about everything and is try, as said, to find somsone to blaim.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Great point, Rog - I was going to say the same. Vader doesn't necessarily KNOW that Obi Wan was the one who hid her from him. He doesn't even know that Yoda was on Dagobah and trained Luke!

The presence of another Jedi Master, alive (at that point Yoda had finally died), hadn't even occured to the Dark Lord of the Sith, nor to his master, the Emperor.

[Jedieb]

Originally posted by Anbira Hicchoru
Exactly. Obi-Wan is everybody's alcoholic, misogynistic, racist grandpa.

With a lightsaber.

:lol


True, I had forgotten about that line, but it could be that Obi Wan had nothing to do with Leia. Maybe they were split up at birth and their locations were totally unknown so as to protect them. Perhaps Vader claiming that Obi Wan was wise to hide her was merely Anakin once again blaming Obi Wan for something that really wasn't his fault.
"It's all Obi-Wan's fault!"
Of course Vader blames Obi-Wan. Old habits die hard. As for "the other." I don't believe that Lucas knew exactly who that other was when he cranked out that piece of dialogue. Whatever story Lucas comes up with NOW, I still believe the other wasn't decided until ROTJ's script reached it's 2-4th draft.

[JMK]

Originally posted by Jedieb
"It's all Obi-Wan's fault!"
Of course Vader blames Obi-Wan. Old habits die hard. As for "the other." I don't believe that Lucas knew exactly who that other was when he cranked out that piece of dialogue. Whatever story Lucas comes up with NOW, I still believe the other wasn't decided until ROTJ's script reached it's 2-4th draft.

That's the line I had in mind when I said that Vader was just blaming Obi Wan again. In a nutshell, because of the way Lucas has gone about these 6 movies, he painted himself into a corner with bits of dialogue and dramatic changes in 'character relations', namely making Luke and Leia siblings.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Vader might not have ever known she was pregnant with twins, either.

I like the ideas presented in the Darthside Blogspot - the Vader there says that Leia reminds him of Padme, because he can't get a read on her. Of course, he doesn't put two and two together in the blog either.

Anakin is sort of dumb. Probably what makes him such a great lackey. And Obi-Wan isn't the brightest bulb either. Although he's wikkid cool.

[Doc Milo]

Now, I don't know how much of this is going to pan out, but in the RotJ novelization, Obi-Wan tells Luke that when Anakin first left, he didn't know that his mother [Padme] was pregnant. Then, to protect them both from the Emperor, they were hidden when they were born. Luke with Owen and Beru on Tatooine, and Leia with Bail Organa and his wife on Alderaan.

This always had me thinking that Anakin/Vader didn't know of any offspring at all -- until he discovers the identity of the pilot (unusually strong in the Force) that blew up the first Death Star ("The Force is strong with this one.")

Obi-Wan is the one who put this chain of events in motion -- Vader does not know about Yoda -- therefore he blames Obi-Wan for everything that happens. If Obi-Wan knew about Luke and is responsible for bringing him into the picture, then he must have been responsible for hiding him in the first place. Same goes for Leia, in his eyes. Perhaps he thinks Obi-Wan was the only Jedi left who could have possibly pulled these things off... perhaps he believes he and his master had killed all the other Jedi (including Yoda.) Therefore, Obi-Wan, as the only Jedi left alive, must be the one who pulled all of this off....

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Vader might not have ever known she was pregnant with twins, either.

He doesn't. He knows she's pregnant, but is convinced (until ESB) that the baby died with her

[Jedieb]

Now, I don't know how much of this is going to pan out, but in the RotJ novelization, Obi-Wan tells Luke that when Anakin first left, he didn't know that his mother [Padme] was pregnant. Then, to protect them both from the Emperor, they were hidden when they were born. Luke with Owen and Beru on Tatooine, and Leia with Bail Organa and his wife on Alderaan.
That's going to get directly contradicted by ROTS. Padme will tell Anakin that she's pregnant early in the film. They only thing Anakin doesn't know is that she's carrying twins.

[JMK]

Does she know she's carrying twins? Does she reveal why she keeps that information from him?

Wait, don't answer that.

[Jedieb]

It's too late for you to try to stay spoiler free!!! :evil Look if you dare!!!!! :evil
She only finds out that they're twins when they're delivered. She names them, tells Obi-Wan there's still good in Anakin and then dies of a broken heart. That's right, a broken heart. Lucas pulled that right out of a Jane Austin novel. Some people hate it but I like it.
That's a farily significant spoiler, so if you're trying to save some magic for next week please don't read it.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I still have stayed away from all your tempting grey text!!

mostly all. If i've read a spoiler, I don't remember it anyway, so who cares. :)

[JMK]

I've resisted that one as well. I'd like for there to be at least one surprise come wednesday night. :)

[Anbira Hicchoru]

I know just about everything somebody outside of Skywalker Ranch can know, and I'm still going to be suprised by a bit of it.

It's all good in the hood for me :crack

[Jedieb]

I went the spoiler route this time because I wanted to try something different this time around. I don't regret it. I mean if there's one prequel where we already knew much of what was going to happen, it's this one. It's still going to be amazing to see it all put together. Holy Yoda I'm stoked. :crack

[Anbira Hicchoru]

Originally posted by Jedieb
I went the spoiler route this time because I wanted to try something different this time around. I don't regret it. I mean if there's one prequel where we already knew much of what was going to happen, it's this one. It's still going to be amazing to see it all put together. Holy Yoda I'm stoked. :crack

Yoda farts btw

[Jedieb]

Even lies such as that should have spoiler tags!!!! ;)

[JMK]

Jesus H. Christ please tell me that was finally cut out of the script. That silly gag would honestly ruin a HUGE portion of the movie.