Question for the Imps

[James Prent]

The NR is basically ready for the changeover to occur. We only have to finish the Senate thread which will send a task group into Corellian space, and we're done.

Is the Empire ready?

[Telan Desaria]

The Empire is ready. We will report any snags posts haste though we anticipate none.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

ok when I asked if you were ready, I actually meant "ready to invade Coruscant."

[Tiberius Anar]

Also, Telan can only realy speak for the Sovereignty not all the Imperials. You will have to check with Khendon and Visc for their state of readiness. Plus we may still need to clear up a few points.

[Lion El' Jonson]

Militarily, it's going to be a stretch.

I'm arranging, however, for the majority of the New Republic Defense Forces over Coruscant to be transferred to the newly created 12th Fleet, based out of Mon Calamari. This fleet creation coincides with the anticipated return of open conflict with the sovereignity, and there will be a very short window of time in which the Sovereignity will have a minimum of ships to contend with, though there will still be the orbital defense grid.

There are also the millions of New Republic troops based on the planet...and the Jedi...

You see, the problem I have (now) with the Sovereignity taking Coruscant is that the New Republic is just too...big...to realistically take down with a shot to the head, even if it is Coruscant. The planet itself, as our capital, demands a massive defensive fleet, and its immense size and population lend it to having several million army personnel permanently stationed there. New Republic Fleet Command Headquarters alone sports a tremendous arsenal: Several combat divisions, self-contained shield generators, ion-cannon and turbolaser emplacements, and a general defensive cordon around the entire facility (which is huge, may I add).

Furthermore, we have to deal with the issues of reality: If Washington D.C were to be blown off the face of the Earth (yes, I probably just set off the FBI's Carnivore...:lol), would America completely fall apart? Of course not. Even if every single person in the White House, Senate, House, and Pentagon were killed, order could be re-established in a matter of weeks. With the New Republic, there are still hundreds of regional capitals (Mon Calamari, Sluis Van, Fondor, Kuat, Bothawui, Diamala, Isht...you get the picture) that could assume control. This was seen in the NJO when Coruscant fell, and command was transferred to Mon Calamari.

As Mon Calamari already serves as our 'real' military command center for any major campaigns, the New Republic's ability to wage war would effectively be unaffected. Once the army was fully mobilized, a massive invasion fleet on the scale of the hundreds of ships could be back at Coruscant in a matter of weeks.

Then there's the issue of force disparity. The New Republic is (EU-wise) larger than the Empire. It encompasses over a million systems, and though many of those are uninhabited, countless numbers of people still rely on the New Republic. The New Republic Navy is the single-largest military force the galaxy has ever seen; on a basis of size, the Sovereignty is extremely outnumbered. For every Star Destroyer that the Sovereignty can deploy, the NR Navy can deploy dozens or even hundreds of comparable vessels.

Though I don't have a problem with the New Republic becoming the underdog, we need to deal with the issue of realism. Unless we choose to revert to the days of bean-counting (where the fleets were far smaller, though those days were ridiculous...), I'm not very comfortable with the concept of the entire Fleet being wiped out just because we lost our Capital. No matter how large the Coruscant Defense Fleet may be, it represents only a fraction of a fraction of the overall Fleet. Rather, I'd envision a slow retreat, where the fleet would withdraw to either settled planets in the Unknown Regions, in Wild Space, or to a large block of key planets in the Inner Rim, Outer Rim, and Core (where we'd create a new defensive cordon). When you are losing a war, and the enemy is pressing into your territories, the key is not to run away or surrender, but to withdraw into a smaller area, so that you may create a much thicker defensive perimeter.

I could deal with the current plan if that would simplify things, but that was just my two cents. I don't know why I didn't think of that sooner. It's just that I'm having a real problem attempting to envision events which would cause the entire fleet to collapse like has been proposed. ^_^;

For Coruscant, we're going to need a new planning thread, I believe. Realistically, we're going to need something along the lines of an Orbital Defensive Grid sabotage (disable the Golans, the Stardocks, the planetary shield grid, etc.), and perhaps another sabotage operation running simultaneously with the first one that would cut off NRFCHQ from the orbital forces, leaving them to direct the battle on their own. We'd also probably throw something in involving the Sith and the Jedi Temple. To be sure, there'd be a ferocious ground-battle; urban warfare is the worst kind of combat there is, and I don't think you get any more "urban" than Coruscant. :lol

If I can make a case for shifting away most of Coruscant's Defense Fleet, however, I suppose that I could justify something that would shift the vast majority of our ground troops off of Coruscant.

Despite whatever objections I may have, I'm still eager for this political shift to occur. Whenever the Battle to take Coruscant begins, it has my go-ahead.

[Tiberius Anar]

I think that I can say with out fear of contradication that we do want to make this as realistic as possible. Your concerns, Lion, are well founded. Believe me you are not the only one who feels that taking Coruscant will not be enough. Nor, I think, are you the only one who has doubts about its feasibility.

Obviously in stories there must be give and take between the dramatic and the realistic. We must be willing to suspend our dibelief just as we must be willing to work within the reality of the Fans Galaxy. If we fail in either of these we wind up with very boring stories.

Taking coruscant is the best and most dramtic way in which to reshape the Galaxy. It should happen that way for the sake of intrest and drama. But it should also happen in a way that is realistic. Taking Coruscant will not collapse the NR it will shake it, weaken it, send it reeling. A shaken NR is one that will fall back in the face of a reborn Empire- but only for a brief time. After that we must accept that the NR would get its act together and start fighting again. Then we can have a Galactic War that wears down the NR, strengthens the Empire and creates a situation similar to the bad old days.

With that in mind. I think that we need to work out a detailed plan for how Coruscant will work. We'll create a thread in which you can present us on the Imp side with the scenario (which can evolve as the logic of Coruscant's defences develops) and we will lay our plans. You and your lot can point out where we are assuming too much or forgetting important things iand we can do the same. That way we can get the result we all want without too much argument. It will be collective planning like Bestine.

What do you all think?

[Khendon Sevon]

Just wanted to make this quick comment:

The Sovereignty is not alone militarily in this. Viscera would be arriving, as I understand, with ships. Additionally, the NPC warlords would rally to his banner, as would the Federacy.

The Federacy’s forces are significantly smaller than those brought to the table by either Viscera or the Sovereignty. However, they are specialized and, if I do say so myself, technologically superior to any other fleet in the galaxy. Additionally, the Federacy has the added advantage of shock value. Their ship designs are unconventional and extremely well guarded (not to mention designed to appear physically aggressive and characteristically demonic). Only those that enter Federacy space and survive, which is extremely difficult, have seen the designs.

My point: the Imperial groups have the ships and resources to wage war, unified, against the New Republic. Additionally, the longer the war drags on the better it would be for the Imperial forces. Federacy technology could be integrated with Sovereignty manpower and cash flow.

What the Imperial forces need is a pearl harbor. However, only in the sense that it creates a shock that delays and stuns the New Republic.

Of course, the military plans have not been set down, yet.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I was under the impression that:

1. Viscera was coming back, with his fleet.

2. He was reuniting the Imperials (some, kicking and screaming) under one banner, and launching an audacious attack on the NR.

3. Much of the NR fleet is tied up at Bestine, fighting the Sovereignty. Another bunch of it will be in Corellian space, fighting the Sovereignty again.

4. Both NR task forces will be trounced. Right?

5. Corellian NR fleet limps back to Coruscant, to find a huge Imperial fleet there, mostly Federacy/Visc ships (since the Sovereignty is pretty much at Bestine and Corellia?).

6. Coruscant was taken down from within - the shields disabled to allow landing of ground troops immediately. Tactical turbolaser strikes can target the Senate, the GJO temple (wheee! a blast right down the middle of it>D), and other military sites.

7. NR fleet regroups at Kuat or Chandrila, along with surviving Senators.

8. GJO Jedi regroup at Yavin IV.

9. Imperials plan their next move to continue conquesting. They will still have a lot of work to do. One: keep Coruscant. Two: get more planets and systems.

As far as a Pearl Harbor goes: Coruscant falling would pretty much shock the NR....? As it's virtually impossible.

[Khendon Sevon]

;) This is why I keep you around De'Ville...

I hope I don't suddenly appear in a jar on your shelf for saying that :x

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Question: What if some of us (Lion and myself primarily) are both Jedi and NR fleet?

[Khendon Sevon]

Then I'm sure you'll fight double plus good.

I'd assume you can either go with your fleet or the Jedi. I'd suggest you stick with your fleet. They'll be seeing more action.

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Originally posted by Khendon Sevon
Then I'm sure you'll fight double plus good.

I regret that I have only one life to waste beating the hell out of Imperials. :D Sorry, did I say that?

[Lilaena De'Ville]

The point isn't that when Coruscant falls that the galaxy will be suddenly the Empire's, but that this is the turning point where things start going awry for the NR.

And... *pats empty spot on shelf and looks at Khendon ;)*

[Telan Desaria]

Firstly - -the Empire/Sovereignty is a large entity encompassing roughly 1/8 of the galaxy. Also, unlike the NR, it is a militarily driven culture with a great deal of spending devoted to the Fleet and Army.

As far as Sovereignty strengths, Bestine is not a big battle. It involves maybe four squadrons TOTAL for the entire system. Bestine is the first in a large series of campaigns that were planned to be mounted. As a reserve there exist a dozen sector fleets, two assault fleets, and the First Fleet which is deployed agains the Federacy border. Once that threat is released and we are united you are talking about fifteen squadrons.

Deployed at Corellia are four squadrons. Heavy Destroyer units, but squadrons nonetheless.

There are hundred(s) of units that are non committed and remain on garrison and defense duties. IC speaking, there is a mammoth awaitng the opening of its cage.

I agree that the conquest of Coruscant is a large undertaking for the forces at our disposal. However, we will fight and triumph ((IC propoganda starts here))) Strategically speaking, I think that Coruscan should be rushed and then placed under siege and bombardment so that no troops are wasted - it takes very little to keep a planet like that bottled up.

Anywa - -more to come, must be going.

[Reshmar]

Ok I have been out of the loop on this being as I have no Jedi character. But Taking Coruscant wont be tough if Khendon and Visc are in on it. The NR knows the Sov to be agressive. But the Fed. has kept to itself more or less and most of its technology is unknown to us. His ships could attack the NR and we would not even know who's they were. And with the addition of what ships Visc has the shock of the ships alone would be enough to throw off whatever fleet is defending the planet. plus the Imperials could have sleeper cells aboard vessels to aid in thier destruction or disabling. My fleet is spread out between Bestine, Fondor, and Calamari. and if I am not mistaken the Bestine group will lose a most of it's ships.

[Lion El' Jonson]

Well then, everything sounds good to me. The only flag I'd like to raise is Lil's point number three, in which it was stated:


Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville

Much of the NR fleet is tied up at Bestine, fighting the Sovereignty. Another bunch of it will be in Corellian space, fighting the Sovereignty again.

It would be more accurate to state that much of the local NR fleet is tied up at Bestine. If you consider the galaxy to be composed of 4 masses of planets (segmentums, if you will), then the forces at Bestine and Corellia represent a large portion of the Segmentum's forces. Also, it has to be considered that, as we're currently at peace (more or less), a large percentage of the New Republic's forces are not mobilized, and therefore are unavailable for combat at the moment (though that will change as the war progresses).

However, you are essentially correct. The major thing I'd like to know, however, is how long we expect this 'fall' to take. Will we have a number of "campaign" threads to illustrate this war, or will we fill most of it in with NPC events and such? :)

[Tiberius Anar]

I say RP as much of it as possible.

I have my own "flag":

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville

1. Viscera was coming back, with his fleet.

2. He was reuniting the Imperials (some, kicking and screaming) under one banner, and launching an audacious attack on the NR.


We need to RP this before anything else can happen. So far Visc has, I believe, posted that he is on the move. Aside from that nothing.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Which is why I asked the initial question in post 1, because I didn't recall seeing anything like this. Which is why I haven't posted to the Senate thread yet, because I don't want to get all done and then sit around and do nothing.

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Historically, numerically superior forces have been beaten by the underdog, but usually it was because of the ineptness of the commander of the larger force (no, I am not saying you're inept, Lion :) ). The best example of this I can think of is the Civil War. In the major battles before Gettysburg (primarily Fredericksburg and Chancellorsville), the Army of the Potomac was numerically superior to the Army of Northern Virginia. Yet in both cases, Lee's army beat the living hell out of the Union army, though the price was fairly heavy. Also, the Confederates had some pretty good strategists, and some very good field commanders (the best being Longstreet and Jackson).

In our case, the New Republic Navy is numerically superior to the Sovereignty's naval forces. But the Imperials also have good strategists and great commanders. We can have the most ships in the galaxy, but the Sovereignty can still have a chance. Whatever we figure out, I'm sure we can make it work.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Didn't anyone read the part where the Imperials are not going to be going head to head with the NR?

First they take Coruscant, overnight in a lightning stroke no one could have imagined, let alone prepared for. Now, with Coruscant under their belt, they can bully some of the smaller systems into coming under their wing, and then they can go on from there. The NR might try to take Coruscant back, but it would take a VERY long seige of the planet (planetary shields) and the Sovereignty forces can always come from Corellia and Bestine IV and hit the NR in the butt, breaking the blockade.

[Telan Desaria]

A defense of Coruscant would indeed be easier than the campaign to take it. Corellia is currently an Imperial garrison and any defense of it would be launched from there. Corsucant would have its own planetary defenses which would indeed be formidible but the fleet would stage elsewhere. Thusly, the NR when it counter attacks would be hitting dummy-ships and grinding against well-emplaced fixed defenses such as orbital battlestations, mine fields, massive fighter and assault ship formations, shields, platform mounted STL-4s (supeheavy turbolasers) et al.

This way the bulk of the attack force, while small, would have a greater chance of making a larger impact. As Lilieana said, the key lies not in challanging and defeating the NR attack fleets, but in defeating the NR fleets through any tactical - yet honourable - methods at our disposal.

Dishonourable things will he handled exclusively by the Federacy and the Inquisitoriate. And probably Visc's forces as well since their crews have been tainted by a vicious and unyielded war with the Vong.

(Same principle as how the war in North Afrika was a gentleman's war bu Russia was a bloodbath regardless.)

[Khendon Sevon]

Ehem, he means to say that the real Imperials will not quibble about honor and all of those other lies fed to soldiers so they'll die in horrible, brutal, bloody battle. (Let's not kid ourselves, all wars are horrible, brutal, and bloody).

...ours are just brainwashed into doing it :)

[Kieran Devaneaux]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
Didn't anyone read the part where the Imperials are not going to be going head to head with the NR?

First they take Coruscant, overnight in a lightning stroke no one could have imagined, let alone prepared for. Now, with Coruscant under their belt, they can bully some of the smaller systems into coming under their wing, and then they can go on from there. The NR might try to take Coruscant back, but it would take a VERY long seige of the planet (planetary shields) and the Sovereignty forces can always come from Corellia and Bestine IV and hit the NR in the butt, breaking the blockade.

This is what I was referring to, about the cunning of the Imperial commanders being able to defeat a numerically superior force - by kicking us in the ass and slinking back in the shadows.

[Lion El' Jonson]

Well then, whenever that kick in the ass comes, the New Republic is ready and willing to get kicked. ^_^;