NFL Pick 'Em, Playoffs: Conference Championships

[Figrin D'an]

Sunday, Jan. 23


NFC Championship

Falcons at Eagles -- 3 p.m. ET


AFC Championship

Patriots at Steelers -- 6:30 p.m ET



Picks must be in by 3 PM Eastern on Sunday

[Nathanial K'cansce]

Eagles

Steelers


Gunna be a PA SB.

[Drake Shadowstalker]

Falcons

Steelers

[Jedi Master Carr]

Eagles
Patriots

[Jedieb]

Falcons
Steelers

[Jedieb]

Basically, I'm picking who I'm rooting for. I think my Falcons pick is a long shot. In fact, a double digit win by the Eagles wouldn't surprise me one bit. I just want to sit back and enjoy the game without thinking, "Damn, the Falcons are winning, I wish I'd picked them!" or "They're losing, but at least I picked Philly."


Vick is great, I hope the Falcons make the SB just to see Vick on that stage.
I think a Vick Superbowl would resemble his Sugar Bowl showdown against the 'Noles. Vick gives a jaw dropping performance, but the more talented team wins.

[Yog]

Eagles
Patriots

[jjwr]

Eagles
Patriots

[JMK]

Eagles
Patriots

[Jedi Master Carr]

About the Philly game, Philadelphia is going to get a foot of snow between tomorrow and game time. What a mess is that going to be. I think that will defentely hurt Vick and the Falcons.

[Phantom]

Eagles
Patriots

[TieFighterPilot181st]

Eagles

Steelers

[LightKnight]

Although I really do not follow the NFL the way use to and my record for predictions in the playoffs are terrible, and given the fact that the Cowboys are not playing, I’ll give it a stab.


Eagles over the Falcons: Really only because I’d rather see a REAL Quarterback or at least a quasi Q.B get to the big dance.

New England over the Steelers: I have always hated the Steelers and more than likely always will.

[Ryan Pode]

NFC Championship

Falcons Win at Eagles -- 3 p.m. ET


AFC Championship

Patriots Win at Steelers -- 6:30 p.m ET

[Jedieb]

About the Philly game, Philadelphia is going to get a foot of snow between tomorrow and game time. What a mess is that going to be. I think that will defentely hurt Vick and the Falcons.

I don't know, snow may hamper Vick's ability to scramble, but it could be just as troublesome to McNab and the Eagles' passing game. Philadelphia passes more than any other team left in the playoffs. The bad weather may mean that the Eagles get a heavier dose of Dunn and Duckett. Also, snow isn't as bad as wind. If it's really windy or the snow is coming down hard, then that open end of 'InsertyourowncorporatenamefortheVet'sreplacement' is going to make passing a nightmare for the Eagles.

Bad weather won't make much of a difference in Pittsburgh. Both those teams are going to try to pummel each other.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The wind is going to be bad from what I have heard I bet we will have a low scoring game that will be a FG contest that really benefits the Eagles as the Falcons kicker has no experience in that environment.

[Cyrel Annat]

Atlanta at Philadelphia (W)

New England at Pittsburgh (W)

[Figrin D'an]

NFC Championship

Falcons at Eagles (W) -- The 4th time is the charm for Philly. They finally get to the Super Bowl because their defense will do enough to limit Vick's opportunities to make big running plays.


AFC Championship

Patriots (W) at Steelers -- I really want to pick Pittsburgh, because it would be a such a compelling story for a rookie QB to lead his team to the Super Bowl, but I don't think it's going to happen. The Patriots are almost a lock in rematch games, and everyone knows how they ratchet up their play even more in the playoffs. It'll be a close game, but in the end, Corey Dillion, who didn't play in the matchup earlier this season, will be the difference, along with the Pats defense.

[Yog]

Gooooooo Eagles!

[jjwr]

Atlanta is hanging tough but that Vick INT may kill them, Eagles score a TD here and it could be over....

[Yog]

It is over. They got a 17 point lead and only 3 minutes to go. Eagles go to the superbowl. Yay! :rollin

[Phantom]

The Falcons never had a chance.

[JMK]

The Falcons had a chance, the Eagles just played a flawless game.

What's the odds that T.O. is back in 2 weeks?

[jjwr]

Eagles finally made it!

Pats playing good so far! 2 Drives, 2 Turnovers and the running game has been held in check, gotta score on this drive though!

[jjwr]

10-0! Pats! incredible throw by Brady, Steelers Corners aren't great. Gotta get up early and make the Steelers throw!

[Yog]

Yeah, the way they started makes this game a bit of a :zzz

I am sure Patriots will win

[jjwr]

End of 1st Quarter! Good start, nowhere near over yet though. That Pittsburgh D is tough! Pats gotta get a drive going and eat some clock or their D will get too tired out there, way too much of a clock imbalence right now.

[Yog]

The Steelers defense is tough yes. But all it takes is a small error, and Patriots are in the endzone again. Just one opportunity and New England will make sure to grab it. Mark my words, it will happen.

After the game, we will probably be talking about how a 15-1 team could be so humiliated.

Edit: No sooner had I written that, and NE is 17-3. Man, this is so predictable its not even funny.

Edit 2: And now its about to turn 24-3! :lol

[jjwr]

Spoke too soon, Pats up 24-3!

2:14 to go in the Half, Steelers need to score here. Pats get the ball to open the second half, they can't afford to take a chance to go down 4 TD's.

[Jedieb]

Wow, a complete reversal of their first regular season match up. You have to wonder if Big Ben will be under center to start the second half. I don't care what he or the Steelers say, he's floating balls. That deep ball he threw on first down on that last series was about yards shorter than it should have been.

[jjwr]

I can't see them changing now, he is definetly off though. That ball your talking about should have been picked off as well. Tough call, Pats are playing so well right now it may not matter. As long as they don't get a rash of turnovers they should be ok

[Jedieb]

The reason I think we may see Maddox in the 3rd quarter is because of how quicly Cowher went to Duece. He didn't wait until the the second half to get Staley some touches. He sensed the Pats were loading up in the middle and thought Duece could bounce some runs outside. It worked for awhile, but the turnovers have been just devastating. You can't make mistakes against the Pats, they're just too damn good.

[Figrin D'an]

Pittsburgh's problem right now is predictability. They're running on obvious running downs, and passing on obvious passing downs. When you do that, it's too much pressure on a rookie QB to make plays to move the chains consistently. They need to mix it up in the second half.

I don't think it's going to do much good at this point though. This game is all but over. New England will come out and go for the throat on their opening series of the second half, and if they score, they'll let Corey Dillion handle the ball for most of the remainder of the game.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah NE has the game the way they want it. Great game plan by Billcheck.

[Yog]

I dont care if your name is Roethlisberger or Peyton Manning. If you just make one inaccurate throw, the New England Patriots eat you for breakfast.

[Jedieb]

At halftime you could see the Steelers coaches pouring water on Ben's thumb. Earlier today you heard reports of unnamed Pittsburgh coaches admitting Ben does have a thumb injury. This isn't the time to worry about your rookie QB's pysche, if he's hurt, yank him. It's not fair to the rest of the team. He's going to have to air it out in the second half. I haven't seen him make too many throws that make me believe he can throw the ball effectively.

[jjwr]

Good start by the Steelers in the 2nd half, at least gives them a chance. Big question is can the offense do anything now that the defense has given them another chance.

[Jedieb]

3 and out, exactly what the Steelers needed. The kid gets one series if I'm Cowher. The real problem for the Steelers is that the Patriots know how to take care of the ball and they're not likely to crawl into an offensive shell (Marty, Herm, pay attention!) even though they're up by 21. On that 3rd down you still saw Brady drop ball to try to pick up the first down. I can't see the Pats giving the Steelers the 1-3 turnovers they need to get back in this game.

[Jedieb]

Three and out and then a TD. The Steelers have a pulse. I half expected NE to stuff them at the goal line. Being able to run it in from the 5 with Bettis is encouraging. A few more defensive stops and this could get interesting.

[Figrin D'an]

That sequence was exactly what they needed to crawl back into this game.

[Jedieb]

Big first down to Branch, who is having a monster game. I was surprised Porter let him go. When I saw Porter drop back I thought he had that covered. Well, with that sack comes a huge 3rd and long...........

[Jedieb]

What a boneheaded play. That screen wasn't going to give them a first down. Uggh.

[Jedieb]

Anyone want to bet that turnover is going to get overturned on replay?

[Jedieb]

His knee was down, it's going to get overturned. Then the Steelers compounded their misery by getting that personal foul. A cheap hold on 3rd and forever, a turnover that wasn't, and then a 15 yard penalty. The Pats don't make these mistakes. The Steelers have just given Adam V. a gimme FG.

[jjwr]

And then the Pats ram it back down their throats...

[Yog]

Well, NE just scored another one. Masacre I say

[Jedieb]

You can't give the Pats chances. They always make you pay. Unreal, if that D-lineman backs off the screen and helps chase it down instead the Steelers get the ball back for their second drive of the half. That was a great run. The line and TE's did a hell of job blocking as well.

[Jedieb]

They have to go for it here on 4th and 5. But damn, that's 2 throws on this drive that should have been picked off. Bruschi caused another fumble on that 2nd down run, but the refs blew the play dead. It's only a matter of time before the Pats get that last nail in the coffin turnover.

[jjwr]

Wow Steelers got lucky on that Bettis Fumble...

4 Dropped Interceptions by Sammuel so far!

[Jedieb]

Great play. You have to give them credit, they're battling.

[jjwr]

Definetly not over yet, Steelers didn't get to 16-1 by folding when the other team was up.

[Jedieb]

Wow, this challenge could go either way.

[Jedieb]

WOW! That one replay showed the ball hitting the ground, but it could have been interpreted that he still had control. It wasn't like the infamous Tampa Bay call (NFC championship game against the Rams) that caused the rule change, but it could have gone the Pats way.

[jjwr]

I don't like the call, when he came up after hitting the ground that ball was firmly in his arms.

Guess that one is a bit of a gray area but it looked pretty solid.

[Jedieb]

Ward almost got it in!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another 1st and goal. This is it, they pound this ball in and the 4th quarter is going to be a battle. What a comeback!

[Jedieb]

They should have run again on 2nd down!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! There's no more clutch goaline defense than the Pats.

[Jedieb]

You HAVE to kick the FG. You can't let the Pats get the ball here. There's plenty of time. Good call by Cowher, the crowd is nuts. Again, a great stand by the Pats but I have to question the play calling. They should have run on 1st and 2nd and THEN thrown the ball if they were outside the 3.

[jjwr]

I don't believe they didn't go for that, figure if they don't get it then the Pats are backed up on their 1 or 2 yd line facing that Steelers defense, very suprising.

Ok Pats, gotta do something this drive! They need a 5-6 minute Drive and at least a FG here

[Jedieb]

They've gotten the couple of first downs they needed. Steelers need .....................oh crap, big run by Faulk. They're in position to give up the FG they just scored. Without some kind of turnover or big special teams play the Steelers are going to run out of time.

[Jedieb]

And the Pats will throw here and give themselves a good chance to pick up the 1st down. No Mary ball allowed.
Good play, here comes Mr. Automatic.

[jjwr]

Nice Drive! Killed a lot of clock and pack to a 2 TD game which means the Steelers are going to have to run less and less and start throwing, which is when Belechick gets nasty!

[jjwr]

Interception! That could be it...

[jjwr]

Oh they better not overturn this one

[Jedieb]

Game over. And there's another pass that got away from Ben. They put up a good fight, but it was just too much to overcome. That last drive and FG put them in 2 minute mode and like you said, that's when Belechick gets nasty. They're challenging it, but this doesn't look like it's going to get overturned. He had his hand under the ball and not as much of the ball touched the ground as on the last challenge.

[Jedieb]

That was the right call. On that other play most of the ball was on the ground, but not this time. They'll grind it out now.

[Jedieb]

And that's one of the reasons the Pats are a great team. Anyone else runs the ball on that 3rd down to force the Steelers to burn another time out, but the Pats call a pass. Brady scrambles and makes a great throw. Are you watching Marty and Herm?

[Jedieb]

Congrats jjwr, your boys are going back to the Big Dance.

[jjwr]

Even goes for it on 4th down...thats why these guys have won so many games.

[Yog]

I tried to tell you last week after the Pats killed the Colts, NE is allmost invincible right now. The win against the Colts killed all of the remaining excitement in the playoffs. Youre now going to see the same thing happening to the Eagles in the SB. Eagles offense relies heavily on throwing the ball, and Patriots has a fantastic defense against that with high probability for interceptions.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the Eagles have Westbrook but still they don't have much of a running game. The Eagles defense usually don't give up too many points so hopefully at least we will get a close game. Although, the Steelers had the best defense and the Pats put 41 points on the board so who knows.

[Drake Shadowstalker]

I'm going to be stuck rooting for a team that is going to get killed in the Super Bowl. That is lame...

woo...hoo...go...eagles...:rolleyes

[JMK]

Man, I think this Pats team is the best team ever. And this is coming from a fan of the only team that went undefeated in a season. In this age of salary cap and parity/mediocrity, the way the Patriots have piled up wins and titles is flat out ridiculous. The system is not designed for teams to have this kind of success year in and year out, but Belichick & co. are breaking all the norms. Major props to them. Brady is about to join the ranks of the Montanas and Elways of the world, before his career is half over. The opening line in Vegas is 6-6.5 points in favor of the Pats, and that's more than reasonable. I expect the Pats to roll over the Eagles and have the game wrapped up early in the second half, regarless if Owens gets in the lineup.

But you gotta wonder how they'll be next year with Crennel and Weis gone.

[jjwr]

Next year will definetly bring some big changes for them. With both Weis and Crennel gone the differences may be huge. Their secondary coach might be taking over the defensive Q position, and considering the job he has done this year he's earned it.

As for offense, I don't know if there is a coach on staff that could step up or if Belechick will look elsewhere.

Roster wise, odds are Ty Law will be gone, 12M is too much for one player and as they showed this year they really don't need him. Ty Poole may be gone as well but he's in the same situation. With Gay & Sammuel they have a pair of good young corners. The other looming problems are Vinatieri, Seymour and Brady, all will be due new contracts soon and you know they will be asking for more money.

Bruschi resigned this year for a below market value contract just to stay with the team so the others may do it as well but even below market on Brady will be huge. Vinatieri I say they sign to a lifetime deal, the guy is money and the team owes him.

So with all those changes their performance next year should be intereting, draft and free agency should help and with Belechick coaching I can't envision seeing a huge drop-off.

[JMK]

Not to mention the number of players that will be convinced that signing with the Pats gives them a more than great chance at a super bowl ring, and if I'm not mistaken, they're stocked with draft picks aren't they?

[jjwr]

They had been stocked with draft picks the past few years but I don't think this year will be anything huge, they should get a few for FA compensation from last year but they won't have 2-3 #1's, #2's, etc like in years past.

Course two of their better draft picks from last year, TE Ben Watson and a young solid Safety were both lost early so they will get them both back as well.

[JMK]

So in other words, the Pats are set for a good, long while provided they can find good replacements for Weis and Crennel.

[Figrin D'an]

Green Bay signed former Dolphins interim head coach Jim Bates to be their new defensive coordinator. His defense at Miami was annually among the best in the league, so maybe he'll be able to at least get the Packers' defense to be respectable.

[Drake Shadowstalker]

Originally posted by Figrin D'an
Green Bay signed former Dolphins interim head coach Jim Bates to be their new defensive coordinator. His defense at Miami was annually among the best in the league, so maybe he'll be able to at least get the Packers' defense to be respectable.

SWEET!!! if the packers get a defense then Favre won't have as much pressure to perform spectacularly every game, even thiough he should.

[Ryan Pode]

I wonder what would happen if the Pats fail to resign Brady... not that it will occur, but it be funny.

[JMK]

Well Brady isn't the most talented QB in the league, but he does have a ton of intangibles, which makes it nearly impossible to say how a different QB would do with the Pats. Would someone like Jake Plummer be able to do what Brady does if coached by Belichick? He's got the skills, but it's not certain if he has the brains, poise and reliability of Brady.

[jjwr]

The subject of what would Belechick do if Brady asked for a Manning type contract was brought up in some sports feature. As much as he means to the team I wouldn't be suprised if ties were cut. I doubt it will ever get to that but with the way Belechick seperates feelings from the team I could see him doing it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Brady should be paid the similar (for today standards) that Montana was paid when he played for the niners. I have no idea how much he got but he should get be getting similar type numbers.

[JMK]

One of the things about the Patriots, is that they all defer to one another. They all give each other credit, they all 'act' humble. Whether or not its genuine, or a practised team philosophy, that's another story. If Brady were to jump out and say "Franchise Me! I want what Peyton gets!" then all of that preaching and praise goes out the window. Actions always speak louder than words and if they're all team guys, they'll accept a contract that works with the team concept.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ty Law is the only exception although that probably means he will be cut before his bonus kicks in.

[Jedieb]

I can't see Brady going anywhere soon. Eventually, the Pats will have to make him among the top 5 paid QB's or lose him. One thing is for sure, he'll never find the same kind of success anywhere else. Eventually, some of these guys are going to say, I've got 2, maybe 3 rings, now it's time to get paid. The first signs are the departures of the cooridinators. It's what happened in Dallas in the 90's.

Does Philly stand a chance? Jimmy Johnson's defense gives them a chance. Plus, they played some of their better football in the playoffs. I wouldn't bet on them to cover even a 7 pt spread, but if they can force a couple of turnovers who knows what could happen. T.O.'s ankle is the big, tiresome story, but even if he plays, he's not what can win it for the Eagles. The Pats team bus exploding on the way to the stadium is the best hope.

[jjwr]

I can't see Brady going anywhere else either, he was a huge 49ers fan and he saw what Montana became because of the 49ers, he has a legacy building and if they win is almost already guaranteed a shot at the SB and by the time he's done could be one of the top QB's of all time.

Some players are definetly going to bolt for the $$$ Damien Woody did last year, he had 2 rings and got a ridiculous contract from the Lions so he took it. Pats refused to break the bank for him.

Seymour may be another one. I'm really hoping Vinatieri signs back up and is a Pat for life, he's another who could easily be remembered as the best ever at his position and a key part of this great Patriots team.

Replacing the Co-ordinators will be key, that will be the real test for this team and if they can keep this run up next year. I doubt they will see another 14-2 season but with solid play a 12-4 record could still earn them a bye.

[Ryan Pode]

There have been kickers like Vinetari. The problem is kickers get no respect from the Hall of Fame committee.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Only one is in the Hall right now and that is Jan Strenreud.

[jjwr]

How many Kickers have made the big kicks this guy made in the past 4 years?

'01 Playoffs - 40+ yd field goal in the blizzard to tie the Raiders
'01 Playoffs - 30+ yd field goal in the blizzard in OT to beat the Raiders
'01 Playoffs - 47yd fg to win the Superbowl
'03 Playoffs - long fg to beat the Titans in ~0 degree weather
'03 Playoffs - 5 FG to beat the Colts
'03 Playoffs - 43yd fg to win the Superbowl

The guy is a stud and is ice when it matters. Look at O'Brien, lost the Steelers game, first points the Pats scored was on a 48yd FG dead down the middle on the open end of the stadium, same distance O'Brien pooched it at.

[Jedi Master Carr]

He deserves it but it is going to be tough since only one kicker has made it so far. Actually the next kicker that has a chance is Morten Andersen, especially if he has all the records when he finally retires. Then it will probably be Vinatieri

[JMK]

Vinatieri is a lock if you ask me. How that guy can be kept out is beyond me. He's made clutch, championchip winning kicks in terrible conditions, and from long distances and he's come through EACH time with flying colors. If he misses any of those FG attempts, we could be sitting here today referring to the Pats in the same way we refer to the Colts and Eagles - close but never quite able to get over the hump.

[jjwr]

Exactly, the guy has a direct impact on the Pats winning those 2 superbowls. And for a Kicker he's fairly young too. Add in a few pro bowls, the guy is definetly on his way.

Peter King was talking about the Pats and mentioned that if they win in 2 weeks the HoF players will be tough calls, Brady & Belechick are locks and as he says with 3 Rings you can't limit it to juse those two. I say Vinatieri, Rodney Harrison, maybe Dillon if he hits the 13,500 or so mark. I would love to see Bruschi but considering he's never in the Pro Bowl it would be tough. McGinest would be very borderline. Seymour is on his way but he's only played 4 years(rookie the year of the 1st Superbowl).

[Anuis Ma'artra]

Originally posted by Ryan Pode
I wonder what would happen if the Pats fail to resign Brady... not that it will occur, but it be funny.

In all honesty, Farve should retire and GB should go after Brady if Pats fail to resign him. At least that's my humble opinion lol

[Ryan Pode]

Actually, the next Kicker to probably have a good shot at it, long before Vinetari will be Matt Stover. Not earth shattering kicks or numbers, but he's carried a team for most of his career. Hell, the 2000 Ravens had Defense and Matt Stover.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Andersen would have a better chance before Stover. Not sure if he will get in considering how long the guy has played. He is going to hold the records but they could hold those years against him.

[jjwr]

Nothing against Stover but no way does he have a better shot than Vinateiri. Like you said he's made no huge kicks, just steady consistency, which for a Kicker isn't enough. For a kicker to make the HOF they need to do something spectacular.

Like the Andersons and playing for 20+ years with ungodly point totals. Maybe Vanderject and his recent great seasons. Sadly most kickers never have a chance to make the kicks Vinateiri does and there are probably many out there who would made them if given the chance.

[JMK]

Absolutely. 99% of the world doesn't even consider the kicker as a real football player, no way the HOF lets in a guy who was just 'steady'. Vinatieri gets in before Stover any day of the week.

[Jedieb]

There are a few borderline Steelers (Lynn Swan for example) in the HOF because of those 4 championships. If the Pats win #3 the same thing will happen to borderline guys. As the years go by, the Superbowl wins will push most of them over the edge.

A guy like Stover will NEVER get in the hall. He's got decent numbers, but the Ravens were never carried by their kicker, they were carried by their defense. Plus, Stover doesn't have nearly the resume of famous kicks that jjwr highlighted. Hell, you could throw in that first FG in this last AFC championship game to the list. First kick and he ties the record for the longest FG at Heinz Field. One of the first signs things weren't going to go Pittsburgh's way that day.

[jjwr]

True, in the 41pt onslaught I had forgotten that one.

Thing is there are so many good kickers but because of the way the game is played very few is any will ever have a shot, even the great ones of the past. Course Dr. Z and other pundits when discussing possible HoF Pats never mentions him, mainly because Kickers never make it in.

[LightKnight]

Originally posted by JMK
Absolutely. 99% of the world doesn't even consider the kicker as a real football player, no way the HOF lets in a guy who was just 'steady'. Vinatieri gets in before Stover any day of the week. Does that mean Punters as well? They are after all the back bone of any team.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The best punter isn't even in the hall, Ray Guy. He was one of the best and he can't even get in. It is just tough for kickers the only two kickers that are in are Jan Strenreud and George Blanda but Blanda played half of his time as a QB.

[jjwr]

It is sad to think about it this way but possibly outside of the two Andersons who have been playing forever the next Kicker that makes it in could be Vinatieri and that could be at least 12-15 years down the road as he's not that old right now.

[JMK]

The trouble with kickers is that they aren't on the field for more than a handful of plays every game. They're not allowed to get hit, and should they deliver a hit of their own, it's usually because something has gone horribly wrong (i.e., a poorly placed punt).

Yes they can be game breakers and a valuable weapon for any team, but not because of who they are, but because the rules are all set up in their favor.

While we're at it, why not start putting placeholders in the Hall too? If a guy has never muffed a hold in his entire career, then he did his job perfectly, put him in too. But that will never happen, and with good reason; they're not real football players. ;)

[Jedieb]

But that will never happen, and with good reason; they're not real football players.
JMK beat me to it. We're not talking about football players, we're talking about locker room punch lines. They're constantly mocked by their teammates and coaches. If you ever need a reminder of why they're mocked just watch them try to make a tackle or watch a replay of Grammatic pulling a hammy celebrating. The only reason that Viniteiri has a chance at the HOF is because he's made historic kicks, that's it.

Hey, when are starting the Superbowl thread?

[JMK]

I'm guessing the thread will start in earnest once Superbowl week starts.

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by Jedieb

A guy like Stover will NEVER get in the hall. He's got decent numbers, but the Ravens were never carried by their kicker

He carried the team, especially in 2000 when they nearly set the longest strech without an offensive touchdown. He's steady at the top of the league. Not just "steady."

[Jedieb]

But he's a kicker! And he didn't carry that team, the defense did. He didn't do anything during that stretch that was spectacular or memorable, he just made most of his kicks, that's it. You don't get into the HOF because you're s kicker carrying a pathetic offense. Seriously, outside of diehard Ravens fans, does ANYONE even mention Stover as HOF football player? Nope. Being a steady kicker is equivalent to being a steady waterboy, convienient, but nothing to crow about. The only reason we're even talking about Vinietari is because he's made TWO Superbowl winnning kicks, and other memorable playoff game tying and OT game winning kicks. Stover, Mari, Vanderjerk, Anderson, none of the other premiere kickers in the league can make that claim. That's why they're just ridiculed kickers that no one takes all that seriously.

[JMK]

Listen, if it comes down to Vinatieri having to make another Superbowl winning kick and he misses it this year, the HOF talk will stop for him. A kicker has to be exceptional in order to get in. They have to be perfect when the game, or championchip is on the line, otherwise there's not even a point in talking about them.

Any sane person would tell you that the Ravens defense carried them in 2000. If you took any other kicker in the league and put him on that Ravens team, be it Vinatieri, Vanderjerk, Mare, Grammatica, the result for the Ravens would have been the same. Stover has done nothing special, he just did his job. He didn't win any titles for his team.

[Yog]

I would not underestimate the value of having a star kicker. Look at the Jets-Steelers game, where the Jets blew two field goals in overtime. Try tell the Jets those kicks did not matter :)

and what about the Colts-Pats game.. they did not even make a touchdown for the first two quarters, but those fieldgoals really helped giving the Patriots a psychological advantage. It went downhill for the Colts allready from that point.

IMO, Vinatieri is the best kicker in NFL, and its not just because he played in those superbowls. This year he got a 93.9% completion ratio and the highest score in the fantasy league. He makes a lot of fieldgoals, more than any other player in the league. I had David Akers on my team, he ended up third, allmost second which was great.. he is probably among the top 3 kickers right now, he is accurate and makes lots of points, and he makes them when it matters the most for the Eagles. But boy did I see the (small, but very noticable) difference in reliability between those two players. When it comes to Vinatieri, there is no one ahead of him - no one next to him.

[JMK]

Well no one disputes their value to a team and their potential to make a difference in a game, but the fact that they don't come in on a play to play basis clearly drops them in terms of historical value when the Hall of Fame is concerned.

[Ryan Pode]

Originally posted by Jedieb
. Seriously, outside of diehard Ravens fans, does ANYONE even mention Stover as HOF football player?

The only reason I'm arguing is cos in some non-baltimore/washington paper about four months ago there was an article on kickers and Stover was considered near the top of the list to get on the HOF ballot.


Stover has done nothing special, he just did his job. He didn't win any titles for his team.

That's all kickers are supposed to do. And you have to look at the teams. Stover played with the Browns and then the relocated Browns. The Ravens have been to the second round of the playoffs twice. And the Browns went to the playoffs once while Matt Stover was there. So, wouldn't you say its kind of hard to kick the championship winning field goal when you're blown out 29-9.

[JMK]

If the kicker named Vinatieri was out of the picture, the maybe this conversation can happen. But there's no way that any kicker active today gets in ahead of Vinatieri, except maybe Morten Andersen because he's at the end of his career.

[Jedieb]

The problem with kickers is that most of the good ones have percentages in the .90's. They may stand out when they're compared against each other, but they still fall short when compared with football players. So the only way any of them will ever be HOF material is if they play for 15-20 years, rack up a ridiculous amounts of points, and manage to make some historic kicks along the way. Even Anderson, with his long pedigree, will probably fall short. Especially when you consider that after the 5 year waiting period he'll just be remembered as another kicker who stuck around for ever. Vinietari is the only kicker right now who probably has a shot at making the hall one day.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The only thing Andersen has going for him is he will have all the records by the time he retires. He should even take Blanda's points record away. I am not sure if that will get him. Especially since he seems to want to play until he is 50 like Blanda did.

[jjwr]

Just for fun the following site has Ravens stats for the 2000 Season

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/rav2000.htm

Their 4 losses were all in games where on FG's were scored, which is a credit to him but they only had one win by 3 points or less, so he didn't have a lot of huge kicks to win games and all the post season wins were by a fair margin.

Like was said above all the kickers are racking up high %'s and solid numbers, to break away from the pack you need to do something special, Vinatieri has done that, no other kicker really has. Unlike most kickers he's rising up the popularity chart, he's talked about a lot on sports shows, people know about him which will help him.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Just curious does anybody know why Strenreud got it? Is it just because he was an amazing kicker? It is strange him and Blanda are it and Blanda would never got in if hadn't played QB first.

[Ryan Pode]

I think Blanda got in more because of versitillity. Going from QB/K to just flat out Kicker. And being good at both.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I am sure that helped him. I am assuming Strenreud had all the kicking records when he retired which probably helped him.

[Ryan Pode]

And because Blanda played for a thousand years.