MLB, Steroids & the '04/'05 Offseason

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ok this is a mess. Jason Giambi has come out and said he used Steroids in 2003
http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1936592

He took them from Bonds' trainer. Now this ruins him, in my opinion. His reputations his forever tarnished. Now the question is Bonds. What if he did it too?? I think if that happens the sportswriters should ban him from the Hall of Fame. If he used Steroids he was cheating and what he did would be worse than Pete Rose or Shoeless Joe Jackson. Man this is another reason I despise the MLB Player association. You don't see this problem in the NFL.

[Figrin D'an]

Can't say I'm surprised. It was only a matter of time before a high-profile player (one still in the game) finally admitted that he was on the 'roids. Considering that he'd be headed to prison if he purjured himself in front of the grand jury, and knowing that MLB really can't do anything about past steroid use, he decided to tell the truth.

This is barely the tip of the iceberg. Baseball and the Olympic sports (like track and field) are really going to be hit hard by this once it all blows up.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I know makes you think sports have been tainted to some degree. This is why need testing and bans like they have in the NFL and NBA.

[Darth McBain]

I'm glad someone had the cojones to admit they used steroids (wait - if he used steroids.... ;) ) I suspect steroid use is rampant in MLB - with their poster boy being Bonds. In my mind, there is absolutely no question that he uses them or used them in the past. While there's no way it would ever happen, I hope Bonds just admits it - he's not fooling anyone. I've mentioned it before, I don't care if he breaks the HR record, because it will be a tarnished record. In my book, Aaron and Ruth are the HR kings until someone breaks their records cleanly and fairly.

I agree with you, Fig - this is probably just the beginning. What we need is Selig to get tough and actually crack down on this.

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Darth McBain
I agree with you, Fig - this is probably just the beginning. What we need is Selig to get tough and actually crack down on this.


I wish he could. The problem is that the MLB Players Association has all the real power in the league. Selig can come up with proposals on how to crack down on doping, but they won't do any good unless they can be incorporated into the MLB collective bargaining agreement.

I've been saying for years that the MLB owners should have held out and broken the players association back in '94/'95. If they had, a lot of this would not be nearly as large a problem.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with you there Fig I said the same thing the owners just didn't have the guts to do it. And whoops how did I mispell steroids :p Let me fix that.

[Charley]

Test more Yankees.

[JMK]

I hope they test everyone and punish the cheaters very harshly.
I'm not surprised one bit by Giambi's admission, even though he flat out lied to the public earlier this year. I'm sure more than 50% of players are on some kind of illegal steroid, and I'd be surprised if less than 90% weren't on some kind of stimulant. The pressure for these guys to remain in the big leagues is tremendous. They'd all forfeit 10-20 years of their lives for the sake of their legacy and fortune.

Layton, you said that you don't see this problem in the NFL, but I'm sure it exists there too, and even in the same percentages as in MLB. I don't know if any of the leagues will ever really do anything to stop the use of the steroids. Why should they other than the fact that they're illegal? They're making more money now, and drawing more fans now than they ever have, and part of that is because of huge hits in football, and an overload of homeruns in baseball. If steroids will help them fill seats and all they have to do is cover it up with small ball parks, and hiding behind player associations, then you can bet they'll never change their policies. Selig may say that he direly wants things to change, but it's convenient for him to say that when he knows he's all but powerless to bring about reforms.

If you ask me, they need to make a hall of fame for the roid junkies and leave Cooperstown and Canton to those who played the game (relatively) cleanly.

They should also asterisk anyone numbers connected to the juice.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the NFL tests all their players and have harsh pentalities. 3 games first offense, 6 second, etc. Sure there is the new thing that screens the steroids but I don't think that was rampant in the NFL. I think it has to do with the way the NPLA is so very weak that they allow year around testing for it which prevents the problems which MLB has, which has hardly any testing and no pentalties.

[Figrin D'an]

While the problem exists in all sports, it's not nearly as prevelent in the NFL as it is in MLB. The NFL and the NBA, at least, do random drug testing and keeps their testing methods up-to-date as more types of substances become detectable, and they have clear punishment guidelines for those who get caught. In MLB, there is NO drug testing at all. None. And, therefore, there are no punishment guidelines for those who do use performance-enhancing substances. That's part of the reason why Giambi made the decision he did to tell the grand jury the truth. Despite his admission, little to nothing will happen to him. The Yankees may attempt to void his contract, but they won't suceed, because Don Fehr and player's association will fight it and, of course, win. He won't do any kind of jail time because the grand jury gave those who testified immunity from presecution. The one thing that could have screwed him was, as I said earlier, if he purjured himself. So, given those circumstances, the choice was obvious... tell the truth and get away with it.

I'm not saying that the NFL is clean... I'm sure it isn't. No sport is. But it's a lot better at policing this stuff than MLB, which has become the joke of all jokes in the legitimacy category.

[Figrin D'an]

http://sports.espn.go.com/oly/news/story?id=1937491

A lot of people are going to be taken down before this is over.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Conte is going to name more names on 20/20. Also the SF Chronicle is reporting Bonds admited it too. This is just getting terrible. I am afraid this scandal is going to rival the Black Sox scandal.

[JMK]

The claim is that Bonds admits to it, but he says that he didn't know what they were. The cream he thought was for his arthritis, and the he says he thought the oil was a flax seed oil. What an utter joke. Even if he takes these things from jars or tubes that are labelled "Arthritic cream" and "flax seed oil", when you gain 40 pounds of muscle when you're in your late 30's, red flags go up, end of story. Anyone who buys this crap that he's selling is one naive fool.

I hope all of these guys go down in flames, and that their legacies are ruined for all time. And I hope this brings McGwire back in the fold because how in the world he gets away clean after all the juicing he did is still a mystery to me. I guess it's all about image. For some reason he's just a loveable oaf who smacked home runs and thrilled fans across the land at a time when baseball really needed it. Sure, maybe that was well and good in the moment...back in '97, but how about a little bit of perspective now, in 2004? He cheated. And I don't want to hear about how Andro was not a banned substance, that's crap, plain and simple. Put an asterisk beside all of their names forever.

More than the ballplayer's lies, I'm anxious to hear what Marion Jones is going to have to say about this. She's going to come out with some classic lies, that's for sure. Conte said he saw her shooting up in the leg with his own eyes.

I can't wait to see how this all shakes down, and I pray that MLB does something that seriously deters these cheaters from taking more illegal supplements. A lifetime ban from the Hall would be nice, or just flat out ineligibility if they're caught with it.

[jjwr]

Selig is saying that something will be done before spring training of next year, I really don't see how they can forward without doing something about this.

This past year it seems as Bonds hit more HR's the less talk there was about his possible steroid use, like baseball was trying to decide if it wanted to try and milk the Bonds legacy or push for the Steroids. To me it seemed like they wanted their great HR Hero but now they don't really have a choice.

Bonds is a joke, to say he didn't know what he was taking is just silly. They were discussing this in depth on Sports Center this morning with the guy from the SF Chronicle. The point was made that all the athletes brought in testified truthfully but Bonds, his comments didn't seem to ring true, possible charges of Purjery were also discussed.

MLB needs to step down hard, Selig mentioned a system like they have in the Minor Leagues will be in effect in the Majors by spring training.

What they need to do is test regularly and randomly all the way from the first training through-out. In the NFL a 3 game suspension for the first hit is huge, in MLB terms thats about 30 games with no pay, that would make a player think twice about doing it.

As for Big Mac, hard to say. He admitted freely to using Andro, never denied it and at the time it was legal, but if I'm not mistaken its illegal now? He was alwasy a big guy but he did put on a lot of muscle, big difference with him was he was always a HR hitter where as Bonds did hit HR but never any huge numbers until the one freakish year and since then. Due to the way they act Big Mac will probably get off scott free while Bonds and his attitude would get more blame.

[JMK]

Bonds is a joke, to say he didn't know what he was taking is just silly.

You know, since Bonds is such a positive role model, and the things he says MUST be true, then I think if I ever get pulled over for a DUI, I'll tell the cop that I thought I was the bartender was giving me apple juice.

Bonds is not helping himself by continuing to lie about this.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL JMK that is a good one. Bonds is a joke right he didn't know. Sure Barry, this could keep him out of the hall of fame honestly. Since sportswriters vote for it they know about all of this and might never vote for him. I think it should this is worse than what Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe did, IMO. He cheated that is way worse than gambling and taking money from gamblers. MLB needs to do something maybe get the government involved and force the players associations hand to get what the NFL has it is the only way to fix this mess.

[JMK]

I wish the government would do something, but they have bigger fish to fry right now, and understandably so.

I really hope that something happens between now and the time he gets to 755. I really don't want to see him break the record any more. I used to want to see it just to say we saw the greatest hitter ever, but now I want him to be brought down big time.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Anybody watch the 20/20 special on this? First Comte is one arogant jerk. Second some of it is scary especially about Track and Field and MLB who knows how bad it is in baseball that is how scary it is. Nothing really new though most of this we have heard except new stuff about Marion Jones and her husband/boyfriend (didn't get what exactly he was to her).

[Figrin D'an]

Conte may be a jerk, but he has a point. His contention was that doping and performance-enhancing drug use was so rampant already that in order for athletes to even keep up, they essentially have to get on the juice. I don't condone what he did... I'd like to see it gone as much as anyone else... but, he made some good points about the current state of things. It's going take a massive effort to even begin to clean up a mess like this.

It does make one wonder how far spread it is. Like I said before, a LOT of people are going to be taken down before this is over.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I agree with you he made some good points. Although I disagree with the stuff about if they cheat it is okay if I cheat I don't like that crap at all. As for how wide spread it is I don't know it is more than 5% that is for sure but I don't think it is no 80% like he was talking.

[JMK]

I believe him when he says it's around 80%. I think the steroid use is rampant for sure.

[Jedieb]

We've been making jokes about Bonds and syringes for years. Now we know all our suspicions have been correct. He cranked out 73 HRs that year because he was juiced. His march towards Mays, Ruth, and Aaron has been "enhanced." Go ahead and break any record you want Barry. They ALL be tainted. You'll NEVER hear a discussion about Bonds career or records without steroids being mentioned. He can put up all the pathetic "I didn't know what they were" defenses he wants. They may keep him safe from a perjury charge or any action from MLB, but the court of public opinion has already made its decision. You're guilty 'roid boy.

Punishment
MLB isn't going to do squat to Giambi or Bonds. This isn't the NFL we're talking about. If the MLB wasn't at the mercy of the player's union they actually take some action. Look at what Stern did to Artest and the other brawlers. Selig can only dream of that kind of power. The MLB steroid policy is a JOKE. John McCain has said he's going to introduce legislation next year to ban steroids from MLB if the league doesn't do anything about this. He better start writing it now because nothing is going to happen to these guys.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I hope McCain can get it passed. The government is the best chance to do something about this right now.

[JMK]

I wonder if Selig will even lend his support to the government if they try to pass something. Deep down I'm sure 'ol Bud doesn't want anything done. If they manage to get rid of them and the league leader hits 35 hr's, that's going to be bad for MLB, and it's recent history.

God why is Selig such a gutless puke....

[JMK]

More egg on the face of the Dolphins:

http://www.sun-sentinel.com/sports/football/pro/dolphins/sfl-boston06dec06,0,5960730.story?coll=sfla-dolphins-front

This isn't surprising whatsoever.

The first NFLer has been nabbed, and at a very bad time considering the other allegations going on in sports.

Reign them all in! Suspend them! Ban them! Do whatever it takes, just clean it up!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the thing is he was caught and since it is his first offense faces a four game suspension which is the way of the NFL. The Dolphins will probably cut him most likely at the end of the season. I don't think there is a major problem in the NFL I think it is a lot cleaner than Baseball. Sure there are some players who are on steroids most get caught though.

[Morgan Evanar]

^Slow down and place a period here and there :|

Seriously, no one should be surprised. Baseball let it go on because home runs sell tickets. A home run used to be a nice surprise, or because some guy just had it in him. The average person doesn't apreciate small ball (I love small ball) and just wants to see a white dot sailing into the stands.

It's too bad, because Bonds was always an excellent hitter, just not a home run guy.,

[Darth McBain]

Originally posted by Morgan Evanar
The average person doesn't apreciate small ball (I love small ball)


I love small ball as well. I would much rather see a well thought out play involving a single, a bunt, and some good baserunning and good thinking to generate a run. Not some full-of-himself, steroid-pumped monster get up to the plate, blast a ball into the upper deck, and just sit there like an idiot and watch it go so they can bask in the glory. It's unfortunate, because that's what people like, but I'd much rather see some hustling and thinking on the field, playing as a team to generate runs.

I was just looking over Bonds stats and in all the years before his big one, he never hit over 50 homers, then all of a sudden, he busts out with 73? Come on, Barry - like there was ever any question you were juicing... :mad

[JMK]

Well I don't know if that in itself means anything . Go check out Roger Maris' stats. He never hit 40 before hitting 61. I somehow doubt that Roger Maris was juicing....but he did die young, a trait commom with roid abusers. ;)

That being said, when you look at Barry's build before 73, and after 73, you can put 2 and 2 together. There's no doubt that he's been juicing, he's admitted it now, so speculating is a waste of time. The question with Barry now is whether or not he knew what he was doing. No one believes him of course, but until he admits that he knew what he was doing, there will always be that question, unfortunately.

[Darth McBain]

Point well taken, JMK - I know there are always anomolies (sp?) in stats that don't necessarily mean juicing, but factored in with how the guy looks, it was enough to make one wonder...

[Jedi Master Carr]

I don't think steroids existed then but I don't know that for sure. About Maris I think he died of cancer, I am thinking liver cancer or lung cancer. Can't remember which one, if that is the case either smoking or drinking did him in. I also don't think steroids are the only reason for the increased in home runs. I think it is the following, massive expansion in the mid 90's: they add like 4 teams in like three years, this vastly diluted the pitching. Also I think they were doing stuff with the balls too after the strike. I wouldn't put it pass the league to try that to try to increase fan interest (that really doesn't bother me as bad steroids though). I am sure there are other reasons it is just steroids are going to be come the main focus.

[CMJ]

Ballparks are smaller than they were 20+ years ago too by and large.

[JMK]

I'm sure they hardened the core of the balls to make them go farther as well. They also built some home-run friendly stadiums and got rid of all of the giant domes from the 70's. It's just a mess. Is the homer explosion because of juicing, harder balls, poor pitching, smaller parks, or just better athletes? Of course the answer is a combo of everything, but in what proportions?

Steroids have been around since the 30's. The Germans used them on their soldiers in WWII and by the 50's athletes had begun using them, mostly on the Olympic level, like weightlifters. So Maris would have had a shot at being able to use them, if he was aware of them, but it's unlikely. It wasn't until the 90's that steroids became illegal without a prescription, so technically, we could put asterisks beside everyone's name. In the 60's and 70's, if steroids were available (and they were) little to nothing would have been made of it, and just about all potential proof of that is gone. No one from that era is, or ever will be under the gun for steroid use, and probably rightly so.
Books like "Ball Four" exposed a lot of guys for popping 'greenies', and spilling the beans got Jim Bouton blacklisted from baseball for a long time. If there was any steroid use back then, it probably would have been in books like that, but still, the possibility is out there that even those we think we know to be clean could also have juiced. I'm not accusing them, because I wasn't around back then. But baseball has had a long history of cheaters, from the 1919 scandal, through Pete Rose, and now this. To think that from the mid 1900's up until Pete Rose's incident, there wasn't some kind of cheating going on could be a little naive onthe fans' part.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well 1919 was a messy affair the White Sox players were being royaly screwed by Comesky. Didn't give them the right to do it but that was their motivation. Also forgot about smaller parks that is a big reason there. Home Run numbers are going to be higher because of that alone. Still, I think its a combo of factors like yous said.

[JMK]

Lots of rumors flying around.

Apparently Boston is about to lose Pedro to the Mets in a matter of hours, and they want to ship Manny to the Mets in return for Matsui & somebody else who I forget at the moment...

Corey Koskie is now in Toronto, Richie Sexson is about to head to Seattle.

Beltran's agent, the evil Scott Boras is calling the 5 year, 70 million dollar offer from the Astros a 'low-ball' offer. What a joke free agency is.

[jjwr]

The increased Home Runs are a number of factors and it can't all be attributed to Steroids, simply put the players today as a whole are better athletes then those of yesteryear.

We have been training methods, dedicated off-season training, better medical science to deal with any problems that arrise. Even without drugs your average players today are much stronger/faster then they used to be.

Now thats not to say it should account for freak HR #'s like Bonds but as a whole the increase in HR's, lots of players getting 20-30 is due to the overall better conditioning, smaller ball parks and weaker pitchers.

As for Red Sox news, looks like he's going to the Mets! Oh well, like they said on Sportscenter maybe its for the best, if they had kept him then only 1 of their 5 proposed starters would be under 30(Arroyo at 28). This forces them to get a young arm. I say go for Hudson and make him sign a long term contract as part of the deal.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It is probably best to get somebody else. The Mets made a mistake 4 years they are nuts. Shows why they make the worse FA signings in baseball. The Ramierz thing I think is a rumor. I doubt that happens.

[JMK]

Manny's contract is so big, I don't see anyone taking it without asking Boston to eat a large portion of it.

The Mets are being insane. They're offering Pedro way too much, and to not require him to take the MRI on his shoulder shows exactly why the Mets have been in disarray for years.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The minute Pedro pitches poorly the NY media will crucify him. They take no prisoners there. In Boston he had it great. I said before if was going to leave he should have went to places like San Francisco, Atlanta, or LA those three cities have easy going media and warmer climates he is nuts. I think he will be hurt and out of the game in two years.

[JMK]

The problem is no other teams were crazy enough to offer what the Mets offered. GM Omar Minaya wanted Pedro so bad that he would have beaten almost any offer from any team just to get him.

Besides, I don't think he had it all that great in Boston. He ruffled more than a few feathers there and was on the media's hot seat several times in the past couple years. He wouldn't have declared that it was his last year as a Red Sox pitcher so often if he had it so great.

All that being said, I believe that Minaya will get ripped if Pedro fails as a Met, not Pedro himself. Everyone knows that he's got a beat up shoulder and probably won't last another 4 years as a starter.

[jjwr]

Peter Gammons from ESPN was talking about the move and comments about how he basicaly had a free ticket in Boston and for the most part the media left him alone. He had built up a lot of good will and could be himself without being shelled for it.

In NY though...he's a hired Mercenary who is in it for the Money, if he comes out and gets shelled then the City and Media will be all over him.

I also didn't hear anything about a No-Trade Clause, be curious to see if he gets traded elsewhere at some point.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I saw that report by Gammons too, it was very true, IMO. Actually this deal isn't bad for Pedro he is already going to be a hall of famer, sure he might be gone in two years but it wasn't like he had any chance at 300 wins.

[JMK]

If he even has the slightest chance at ever reaching 300, he would have to totally reinvent himself as a pitcher. But it's totally unlikely, especially now that he's a Met.

I still disagree with Gammons though. I can remember a few instances over the past couple seasons when Pedro got in to some hot water with the media in there and declared that it was definetly his last season in Boston.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well the media in Boston has kind of been easy on him. I am going by the Boston Globe. The Ny Papers would have been harsher to him, IMO.

[JMK]

I think maybe lately they may have been easier on him because:

a) the tension of never winning is gone
b) they realize that now that's won, there's no more reason to stay, unless they make him comfortable and go easier on him.

No doubt New York will be tough on him as well, but I really think Minaya will be the one to get in deep trouble for this. Everyone and their dog knows that Pedro may not, and probably won't last 4 years. What will 2 years of Pedro do? Instead of going 70-92 they'll go 78-84? Big deal IMO. This is a move that will get Minaya canned if it doesn't work out for him.

[JMK]

The D.C. move is on the verge of collapse:

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=caple_jim&id=1947248

MLB wants DC to build the stadium entirely on their own, and DC won't do it. So now MLB has told season ticket buyers that they can go get their money back and that they've shut down operations. (Really they haven't, but they won't be announcing anything anymore IMO). They have until December 31st to get a deal done, and they still haven't settled anything with Peter Angelos.


This is the time for baseball to do the right thing. The league put itself in this mess by letting Jeffrey Loria mess up the Montreal market and then buying the team from him so he could go to Florida. The league is the one that put the Expos through the ridiculous ordeal of playing in San Juan. After treating fans in Montreal about as shabbily as possible -- do you think playing home games more than a thousand miles away might have had something to do with poor attendance in recent years? -- it's time baseball started treating Washington fans properly.

This Jim Caple guy is pretty bright. :)

I'm loving watching this. No one cared before when the Expos were getting fleeced here because it was Montreal, and it had been a waning market for a long time...because of MLB. Now that they're screwing the good people of DC, people are starting to notice and really see what these clowns are all about.

[Jedi Master Carr]

And people there are rich and influential so they might do something about it. Who knows where this is going.

[JMK]

You would think they would have done something before it got this embarassing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

They should have can't say people in MLB are too smart :p How about the continuting saga of Randy Johnson? The trade nearly went down last night until Shawn Green said no. Honestly, the dodgers would have been morons to make that trade it did nothing to help them.

[JMK]

For some reason the Dodgers are cutting all kinds of salary. They've lost Beltre, Penny and are trying to unload Green. I don't know what's going on there. This trade doesn't really help the Dodgers at all, you're right. But remember that GM Paul DiPodesta is a Billy Bean protege and is all about getting the bang for the buck.

I hope Green continues to torpedo the trade so that the Yanks can't have Johnson, but I doubt that will happen.

[Jedi Master Carr]

According to ESPN the deal is dead. Green doesn't want out of LA he likes the area. It is his choice so I don't think the deal will happen at all, which is fine with me.

[jjwr]

Really? I hadn't heard that, gotta catch up on some news I guess.

Randy wants out though, I would imagine something will be done but it will take some time to get a new deal together.

[JMK]

Green doesn't want out but I heard that if he can sign a contract extension now with Arizona he would leave. I'm sure this deal will get done.

[Jedi Master Carr]

There are also rumors the Dodgers might have changed their mind because of losing Beltre. Green is the only power hitter they have now.

[JMK]

Anyone catching the Pedro vs Schilling blasts flying around now?

I knew those guys wouldn't co-exist for longer than they had to.

[jjwr]

I can 't believe Pedro is pulling this crap, I liked the guy a lot when he was with the Sox and now he's acting like a Punk. Schilling was nothing but nice and was clearly the better pitcher last year.

[JMK]

You mean to tell me that you're surprised by Pedro's actions?

Great pitcher that he is, he's the ultimate "me" guy. His demands for special treatment are being revealed more and more every day and I love Schilling for calling him out on this.

I'm not surprised one bit that Pedro is finally letting everyone know how he really is and what he really thinks about his former teammates.

[Jedieb]

I guess once he got out of the uniform his faults finally became apparent. What? I sound bitter? YOU BET I AM!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cry

There are some hurdles to the Johnson heading to NY, but even if the Green deal falls through it looks like it will eventually happen. Another interesting offseason.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Pedro is looking like a modern day Ty Cobb or Pete Rose to me. Cobb and Rose were both just as egotistical, only thinking about themselves. I am not really surprised nor do I care because in two years he will be looking at retirement.

[JMK]

The list of special luxuries Pedro has received from the Mets is nuts.

• He gets a private suite for all home games at the stadium.
• He gets a luxury hotel suite on the road.
• He does not have to come to games where he does not pitch.
• He does not have to dress should he decide to show up.
• He is allowed to show up to games late.

There's more, I just can't remember them right now....

I think I may just have to become an Anaheim Angels fan. With their signing of Cabrera and already having Guerrero, I think they may be my team now that the Expos are gone. ;)

[JMK]

Looks like John McCain is ready to get in to the act of cleaning up sports:

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/news/story?id=1950993

If this was something that he could accomplish in a week I'd say go for it, but there has to be other things he needs to worry about.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well there are other people in Congress that will block it. It is hard to get stuff like that done. Although with the contraversy he might have more luck. I think he will get the Boxing thing passed that is something that has been needed for a long time.

[jjwr]

The Sox Signed another Pitcher, while the rotation won't quite have the names expected with the 3 new additions and the hold-overs of Schilling, Arroyo & Wakefield it might still be decent.

[JMK]

Matt Clement is a good pitcher IMO. I think he's good enough to be Boston's #3 guy.

[Jedieb]

The Yankees and the D-Backs will now start looking for a third team to make the Johnson deal work. This could be this year's A-Rod deal, where another team comes in at the last minute and Johnson ends up wearing something other than pinstripes.

Man, I wonder how much thinner Bonds will look this season? :rolleyes

[JMK]

I don't think Bonds will look any different than he has in the past few years. Dropping weight, particularly now will be a total admission of guilt. His legacy is already as tainted as it will get, why would he slow down now?

I love how all teams stop and wait for the Yankees to drive up the bidding. The Astros met with Beltran, but he's not going to sign their contract until he hears what King George is willing to pay. And Steinbrenner WILL overpay to have him.

[JMK]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1965565

Finally we have a tougher policy in place.

Everyone gets tested once a year, at any time, and random testing ensues.

First offenders gets a 10 game suspension, and thus are publicly identified. Fourth time offenders get a year suspension.

Good to see some real teeth this time.

[LightKnight]

MLB, new steroid policy =BIG WHOOP!

I’m going to break this down into two different thoughts and I assure you one if not a combination of both are true.

The MLB could give to putts about players on steroids. Their only concern is putting butts in the seats selling merchandise and Television rights, that’s it no more no less. If you don’t believe that look back at the Joke of a home run race a few years ago, it was deathly obvious what was going on but the public at large to my chagrin actually was duped into believing it. Now this, look the MLB knows and has known for, well for as long as steroids have been prevalent in the sports world that the players were on the juice but yet they chose to turn a blind eye, well not really push to do anything. Had not all this Balco or whatever the name of the company hadn’t become front and center in the media at large we the Joe public wouldn’t even be discussing this. The MLB was forced to ACT like they care and to bring out these new rules, that makes Joe public think that the MLB will or would actually do something to players if they were actually tested and actually caught ,come on how STUPID do they think people are? Well, people actually think American Idol is on the up and up so I guess they’ll buy this junk.


Now lets pretend that the MLB actually cares and has been in the dark and they are trying to clean up baseball, what do they think their new rules will do !!??Take this to the bank as if it was a Million Dollar check from Bill Gates , there are steroids and more fitting to be called Performance drugs that cannot be detected , period. They are working on and too a degree perfected, ways to alter genes that improve strength and stamina. They actually had a little spot on one of the Discovery channel shows not long ago about the latter but I’d say that that show was some what dated due to the progression of the progress since then. Now not getting into the more advanced steroids we can discuss the fact that normal steroids such as d-ball and horse can be used in cycles that would go undetected unless you get too greedy and over use, well actually you would have to use a quarter of the dosage and a few other mior things not to get caught but that’s still more than enough to give an advantage. And how about the penalties?? First offense 10 day ,second 30 days of suspension?? or what ever, What a joke I’m sure that the idiot players that actually get caught if the MLB actually cares are shaking in their cleats. Here’s what I’d do

First offense:6months no pay 100,000 fine
Second offense 200,000 fine no pay 1 year ban
Third offense: no more baseball ever

Of course I know the union has a say, but uh, I do believe that the MLB can take care of the union and if not let these over rated over paid so called athletes sans and few actual good athletes go on strike. I mean if these *snicker* Athletes are so on the up and up what’s to fear?

Of course I keep saying MLB I have no doubts that there are a few people in the group that are truly working to clean up baseball but the bad, way out Weigh he good. Also the players, I’d say out of a thousand players, I have no idea how many there actually are, there are probably one hundred that are clean and always have been.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That would be even harsher than the NFL. In the NFL first offense is like 3-4 games which is almost a third of the season. Something comparable would be like 30 games for first offense. Still this is a start in the right direction hopefully it will get tougher over time.

[JMK]

Originally posted by LightKnight
The MLB could give to putts about players on steroids. Their only concern is putting butts in the seats selling merchandise and Television rights, that’s it no more no less.

True


Originally posted by LightKnight
If you don’t believe that look back at the Joke of a home run race a few years ago, it was deathly obvious what was going on but the public at large to my chagrin actually was duped into believing it.
It wasn't as obvious then as it is now, people were enjoying what it was - the most thrilling chase in baseball in decades.


Originally posted by LightKnight
Now this, look the MLB knows and has known for, well for as long as steroids have been prevalent in the sports world that the players were on the juice but yet they chose to turn a blind eye, well not really push to do anything. Had not all this Balco or whatever the name of the company hadn’t become front and center in the media at large we the Joe public wouldn’t even be discussing this. The MLB was forced to ACT like they care and to bring out these new rules, that makes Joe public think that the MLB will or would actually do something to players if they were actually tested and actually caught ,come on how STUPID do they think people are? Well, people actually think American Idol is on the up and up so I guess they’ll buy this junk.


Of course MLB was forced to act. Guys like McCain said that if they didn't do something, the government would. Also, a very significant number of fans were/are getting fed up with guys on roids, unless of course one plays for your home team. It's like fast food chains and their new 'healthy options'. They don't give a hoot about their customer's health, they've offered these things as a result of the immense pressure put on them by various bodies and commissions, and the exposure they've been subjected to as being artery cloggers and death coated with grease and cheese. They didn't do it for the benefit of the public, they did it so as not satisfy the angry voices and to make sure they don't lose fans/customers.



Originally posted by LightKnight
Now lets pretend that the MLB actually cares and has been in the dark and they are trying to clean up baseball, what do they think their new rules will do !!??Take this to the bank as if it was a Million Dollar check from Bill Gates , there are steroids and more fitting to be called Performance drugs that cannot be detected , period. They are working on and too a degree perfected, ways to alter genes that improve strength and stamina. They actually had a little spot on one of the Discovery channel shows not long ago about the latter but I’d say that that show was some what dated due to the progression of the progress since then. Now not getting into the more advanced steroids we can discuss the fact that normal steroids such as d-ball and horse can be used in cycles that would go undetected unless you get too greedy and over use, well actually you would have to use a quarter of the dosage and a few other mior things not to get caught but that’s still more than enough to give an advantage. And how about the penalties?? First offense 10 day ,second 30 days of suspension?? or what ever, What a joke I’m sure that the idiot players that actually get caught if the MLB actually cares are shaking in their cleats.

Here's where I begin to disagree somewhat. I think players are concerned with their legacies and how they will be remembered. If they are going to be exposed as cheats and get CRUSHED in the court of public opinion, then as a guy who knows and follows baseball 365 days a year, a lot of guys are going to get off the juice. No way they want to be exposed. If they didn't care, the guys like Bonds, Sosa, Sheffield etc would just openly admit it. They technically didn't break any rules, so they can't be punished for it, other than in the court of public opinion.



Originally posted by LightKnight
Here’s what I’d do

First offense:6months no pay 100,000 fine
Second offense 200,000 fine no pay 1 year ban
Third offense: no more baseball ever

Of course I know the union has a say, but uh, I do believe that the MLB can take care of the union and if not let these over rated over paid so called athletes sans and few actual good athletes go on strike. I mean if these *snicker* Athletes are so on the up and up what’s to fear?

That being said, I don't think the penalties are harsh enough either. I'd be happier if they adopted the version you posted Buff.

But that wouldn't happen because the MLBPA would never agree to such stiff fines and suspensions. They would strike before allowing that to pass, and if they MLBPA gets tough, they will win. They have the most powerful union in pro sports and one of the best unions on earth, period. They don't break easily at all.

At the end of the day though, MLB has taken a great step to limiting performance enhancing drug use and if their policy only gets tougher from here, then that's nothing but good.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I wish it was more like the NFL which to me is harsh.

[Jedieb]

This is a good start. I think the 1st offense of 10 days (not games, days) may not seem like much, but it's more than I expected. It also carries the whammy of outing the player. MLB will issue a press release the same day a player is suspended and his face will be all over Sportscenter that same night. This is what I've been waiting for, something with teeth.

Hopefully, MLB will keep adjusting the policy and adding drugs to the banned substances list on a yearly basis. No policy is perfect, but this one is a hell of a lot better than what we had in place before. Thank the maker for whoever leaked the Balco Grand Jury testimony and outed Giambi and Bonds. Without that, NONE of this would have happened.

[jjwr]

First offense really should have been 10 games and not 10 days, the outing of the player is nice but it should be more than a slap on the hand.

I'm curious, once a player tests positive will they be tested again that same year?

What about testing in the off-season? Thats when most of the work outs and heavy lifting/use happen.

[Jedieb]

There will be off season testing. Even players who live outside of the U.S. will be subject to testing. Players will not be limited to only 1 test per year, so I imagine that if someone gets busted they could be tested again. I'd be surprised if violators weren't required to be tested on a regular basis once they've been caught.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Bringing this back up because Sosa got traded to the Orioles for Jerry Hariston and like 4 minor leaguers.

here is a good article about the trade

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=wojciechowski_gene&id=1979666

Honestly, this might be best for the Cubs and will work out a lot better for them then for Baltimore. Sosa won't do squat for the Orioles they still will finish third behind New York and Boston. They have no pitching. The Cubs now need to use Nomar as their star player and that is better than Sosa at this point.

[JMK]

Definetly addition by substraction for the Cubs. Sosa is as selfish a player as we've seen in recent years. When winning became important to the Cubs and Sammy's role became to help the team win in any way that he could, he became a headache. When the Cubs stopped being the Sammy Sosa Show, he started lying, getting caught cheating, being questioned about steroids, being a bad locker room guy. He handled everything poorly.

I think he'll be productive in Baltimore but they still aren't going to win a thing. The management knows that they don't really stand a chance with Boston and New York in their division, they may as well be entertaining.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think that is what they are going to try to do they will be playing in a lot of exciting games although they will still finish third.

[Darth McBain]

That was a great article about Sosa, and so true... The guy was just trouble and I'm glad to see the Cubs dump him. Hopefully he won't screw up the O's chances too much, but I think y'all are right, they can't really contend with NY or Boston, Sosa or no...

[Jedi Master Carr]

If they had pitching they have a chance but right now their pitching is awful. They are going to be in a lot of 10-7 games.

[JMK]

The steroid allegations are about ready to fly again. In 2 weeks time Jose Canseco's book comes out. According to ESPN and other sports outlets, he states that he personally injected Mark McGwire and Jason Giambi, and introduced steroids to other sluggers like Ivan Rodriguez, Juan Gonzales, and Rafael Palmeiro. He also states that Texas Rangers owner at the time, one Mr. George W. Bush knew about the steroids.

I've never been a big Canseco fan, but the cynic in me says that all of this is true. I know everyone will punch holes in his credibility, and that every single player will deny the accusations (except Giambi of course, we know his story) but what player would admit to it? None, but I'm sure most of what will come out of his book will be true.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is some major allegations especially against the current president. It wouldn't shock me if it was all true.

[JMK]

Questions about Canseco's credibility are going to come in to play for sure. But IMO just because he's a loon doesn't mean that he's lying. Others will say that he's trying to stir the pot and make some cash with this book, but the suspicion was always there in the first place, it won't take much for people to believe what Canseco has to say.

[JMK]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/columns/story?columnist=olney_buster&id=1986137

Just as I had suspected, my opinion pretty much goes along with ESPN's Buster Olney.

[Darth McBain]

Good article. While I personally don't like him and think he's a little "out there", I do think that there will be a lot of truth to what he's putting in his book. I agree with what Olney said:



I believe most of what occurred from 1987 to 2004 was legit, but sadly, all of the players in this era will be stained by the steroids. No black-and-white asterisks will be printed next to the names and numbers, but when baseball fans and historians look back at this period of time, they will forever apply their own statistical translations. Thirty-five home runs in 1998 is roughly equal to -- say, 20 -- in 1968.


I know I'm doing that already, and it is sad, because I feel it basically renders so many hitting records useless. With all of the incredible numbers put up recently, how can you trust them? I'm not really impressed by any hitting feats nowadays due to this. It's like, "so this guy hit 75 home runs, big deal". It shouldn't be that way - if everyone is playing on an even level, then the records will actually mean something.

[Jedieb]

Canseco's has a serious credibility problem. Yet, if most of his allegations end up being corraborated, would any of us be surprised? That's what this era is going to be remembered as, JuiceBall!

[JMK]

What's going to be sad is when in 40 years or so when we're all grandparents, and we talk about the ball players of our youth, we'll have to all but completely dismiss our era as tainted and completely false because of MLB's lack of action.

[Morgan Evanar]

Originally posted by JMK
What's going to be sad is when in 40 years or so when we're all grandparents, and we talk about the ball players of our youth, we'll have to all but completely dismiss our era as tainted and completely false because of MLB's lack of action. I hope I honestly have better things to talk about as a grandparent. Seriously.

[JMK]

Why not mix a little perspective in will ya? Obviously there are more important things to talk about. But sometimes, if you're anything like me, you want to know what the players were like 30, 40, 50 years ago. But if you want to talk about splitting the atom and Dolly the cloned sheep, then more power to you.

[Morgan Evanar]

I'm not going to debate the importance of sports versus other professions. For the most part, I'm a casual fan at best for anything but World Rally Championship races. If most professional sports dissapeared tommorow, I think I'd be happier. College players would then be playing because they loved the game, and that they had something to prove on the field. Not that they don't know, but with many players starting at 19, 20, 21 and leaving school early, its not the sole motivation.

I guess my point is that I'm not much like you in that respect. The steriod scandals will taint the baseball of this era forever, but as a small ball afficianado, I say good riddance. They're tainted, it happend, ban the crap, test people, move on.

[JMK]

As if the Giambi/Bonds/McGwire/Canseco/Yankees removing steroid clauses from Giambi's contract drama wasn't enough, now an FBI agent is claiming that he told MLB officials 10 years ago about the rampant steroid use in baseball and that MLB looked the other way.

http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/3398326

MLB's response: deny, deny, deny.

I'm not a rocket scientist, but I don't think lying in the face of the FBI is the best thing to do, especially when no one believes a word you say any more...

[Yog]

All I want to know is wether there will be a MLB pickem so I can win that one as well ;)

[JMK]

That would seriously be the most tedious and repetitive competition ever!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah 162 games times 32 teams that would be a lot of games to pick. We have picked the playoffs and such it is just harder to do the regular season. Now we will be doing a NCAA pick them soon.

[Jedieb]

I LOVE talking about baseball with my Dad. It's a great father/son tradition. Comparing eras and players never gets old. I hope I get to have the same kinds of conversations with my son years from now. I sure as hell won't put as much stock in this era's power numbers. Bonds' numbers will look monstrous years from now, but history will remember the 'roids scandal and knock Bonds down several pegs. IMO, this whole scandal should knock him below Mays, Ruth, Aaron, etc.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Mike Greenwell wants the 88 MVP from Canseco
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=1993112

In a way he has a point. The Olympics already do this, I don't forsee that happening though.

[JMK]

He may have a point, but he's not going to get it. There was no rule against steroids in 88, so it can't be taken away from Canseco on those grounds. Greenwell can just forget it. Besides, it's 17 years later...what's it going to get him? It's a slippery slope if you yank the MVP from Canseco for using steroids.

[jjwr]

Its definetly starting to pile up. FBI, La Russa saying he knew Canseco was juiced. Ah Baseball...gotta love it!

What worries me most is the one guy who should have his middle name changed to Steroids seems to be flying under the radar while Canseco, A's, etc are getting all the headlines.

Barry "Steroids" Bonds...I really like the article CNNSI had up not too long back. Barry needs to go away, retire now and don't touch the Babe's or Aaron's HR Mark. Its obviously tainted, its bad enough he has the single season but if he gets the record it will be a joke.

I'm curious everyone's thoughts on McGuire? The guy was huge, no doubt about it but he didn't have a single surge of HR's or a definitive sharpe upswing like a few players(Bonds, Sosa). He hit 49 as a skinny rookie and got bigger as he got older but still continued to hit HR's, even challenged the mark a few times before finally popping 70. Andro was definetly being taken, but it wasn't a illegal substance at the time so thats a very shady line.

[JMK]

I have no doubts that McGwire juiced as well. While it may not have led to an immediate spike in stats, it definetly helped and maintained what he was able to do.

What I don't get is why Sheffield is getting a free pass here.
He admitted to using the same stuff as Bonds. Is it because Giambi's disaster is overshadowing the fact that Sheffield is also a Yankee? Or is it because Sheffield was runner up to MVP? I agree with the talking heads who say that if Sheffield had hit .240 with 20 HRs and 70 RBI that he would be in the same boat.

How MLB can deny that the FBI informed them is just a joke. I predict that in a couple weeks they'll come out and acknowledge that the FBI did infact let them in on it, but they didn't do anything about it because 'their internal information' didn't lead them to believe it was that widespread, and that since there was nothing in the CBA preventing steroid use, they couldn't have done anything about it in the first place. That would be an even funnier joke. In a pathetic way.

It just goes to show how much people love baseball. People (myself included) continue to support MLB even though they've deceived more people than any organization probably ever has.

[jjwr]

The big difference with Sheffield is he admitted to it, he came clean and said what happened. Whether its the whole truth no one will know, but unlike Giambi & Bonds he stepped up and said what happened.

[JMK]

Yes and no IMO. Yeah he said he unknowingly took them, which is an admission, but we all know he's full of it. I think one of the bigger reasons that he may be getting off light is that guys like Canseco, Bonds, (now) McGwire, and Giambi are all linked with others, and are all chasing records while Sheffield isn't really close to anyone or anything.

It will be very interesting in several years from now to see how many of these guys get in to the hall of fame, and to see what effect their links to steroids have in keeping them out.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think it will keep Shettfield out heck it could make it harder for Mcgwire and Bonds. If they found out they should not be allowed in. To me using steroids is worse than what Pete Rose and Shoeless Joe Jackson did. Heck at least they played by the rules of the game. Rose just gambled and Jackson knew about the fix.

[JMK]

Well that's where the debate gets tricky. Cheating is cheating in most people's eyes. If some cheaters are in, then you've got to let them all in. I don't necessarily agree with that, but that's the way this is going to go down.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Then why not let Cobb and Jackson in then if they are going to let Bonds and Mcgwire in? I guess we will have to see what happens when McGwire comes up in a few years.

[JMK]

Exactly, that's the dilemna that HOF voters will be faced with. But since there was no legislation against steroids and there were for gambling (especially in Rose's case) I think the juicers will have an easier time getting in. But I've heard a lot of voters say that they will not vote for someone who they believe to have been a steroid user. That's fine by me.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Now the difference is the Press votes which might make a huge difference these guys might not vote for juiced players.

[jjwr]

I hope the Voters keep them out, if Bonds ends up with the all time HR record and doesn't make the Hall that would be a huge statement.

[JMK]

I think Bonds will be the exception of the group based on his 3 MVP's before he was under the suspicion of juicing. He's always been a great player, only in the past 5 years have his power numbers skyrocketed. The others will have a very difficult time getting in.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Shettfield will never probably have the numbers anyway considering his career numbers have only gone up recently and he is like 35. Plus he has been a cancer in the clubhouse and has a bad image with the press that will hurt him too.

[jjwr]

True, he's had a long history of being a pain in the butt. He has been solid but never great and last year while he had good numbers look at the lineup he was in?

[Jedieb]

The worst that's going to happen to any of these guys is that they won't be first ballot HOFamers. Even if they do get in on the first ballot, they're going to get in with their fair share of protest no votes. The reason? NONE of the allegations can ever be proved. You can't go back in time and get a blood sample. Canseco like allegations are basically worthless unless you have a video tape and signed confession to go along with it. Remember, at the time, the steroids in question weren't even outlawed by MLB. Blame it on the owners and the players union, but you can't keep McGuire and Bonds out. They're both going to get in. What they will NEVER escape is history's judgement. Frankly, I don't think it will be kind. I think their numbers are going to be viewed through 'roid glasses. That's going to be their punishment. You'll never read an article without the 'roid paragraph.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well only Bonds and McGwire are even cosidered HOF's right now. Sosa will depend on what happens with the rest of his career and Shettfield will never get in he will never have the numbers.

[jjwr]

It doesn't need to be proven to keep them out. A lot of the Baseball Voters are old timers who really like the game the way it was. Match that up with a player like Bonds who has obviously used something to pump up his power #'s and they are going to look very disfavorably on it.

[JMK]

I agree with Eb, McGwire and Bonds are in, at least Bonds will be in. They will never be mentioned without the word steroids ever again though, and if that's their legacy, then they deserve it. It may not have been against baseball rules, but it was still and illegal drug. It was cheating in the eyes of every Tom, Dick and Harry on earth and they should have known that.

IMO they don't need scientific proof to be convicted of their steroid use, all that needs to happen is for someone to come forward and back up Canseco's story. Someone with credibility, and that will be more than enough to close the case on these guys forever.

[LightKnight]

Hear me now, believe me later. My predictions on what will happen in baseball and all that applies too it.


1. Bonds is on steroids, he is already starting to use the race card and that is a dead give away too guilt. I could go on about other things he said in his news conference but no need to, that statement seals the deal.

2. Mcguire and Sosa, as well on the juice. Heck, steroids has messed Bonds mind up so much he actually said Mcguire was big out of college. Has anyone seen pictures of Mcguire in his first year? That ain’t anywhere being big.

3. Baseball will ACT like they are playing hard ball, even catch (wink wink) a few players using steroids to put on a good show for the public and turn a blind eye to the likes of Bonds, Sosa etc..

4. The sporting world of news will continue doing their steroid run for awhile longer. Once baseball cracks down and catches a few players (wink wink) they will turn too how the testing is working and everything for the most part is all better. Then stop reporting on it all together.And the players will be able to continue their doping undisturbed.

5. Ignorant people will feel bad for Bonds, that Yankee player and the rest. Those same people and others will soon forgive, although no one will ask to be forgiven and this whole steroid mess will fall by the wayside. Bonds will get his celebration for passing Ruth and Than Aaron and get his name in the record book with out an side note, noting that he is a steroid using cheating S.O.B. That is unless someone of some serious credibility or pictures or Steroids are found on his person.


But the truly sad fact is, even if/when all that Jose.C is found to be true and Bonds, Mcguire Sosa and Giambi were to come out and admit it, I really don’t think that people would really care, that’s how pathetic this society has become when worshipping over paid, under talented athletes.


Sorry if this sounds harsh, especially since there are many diehard fans but the truth is the truth. Well the eventuality of it will be the truth.

[jjwr]

What I find as the best indictment of Bonds is by older Players. I think it was Aaron who had questioned him not that long ago. Questioned his ability to heal and keep playing into his 40's when most players would be done. Aaron knows his record is in serious doubt and considering how its being attacked he's not happy.

Not too far down the line guys like A-Rod, maybe Manny who are still young enough and hitting 40 HR's consistently will be pushing the record and doing it legit but for now we have to put up with Bonds.

I don't doubt McGuire was on something, he had Andro in his locker so he took supliments no doubt about it, but the guy was always a HR hitter, the big difference between him and Bonds is he always had big Power #'s while Bonds made a quantum leap from a great HR year to the ridiculus #73.

[JMK]

The sad part is that anyone from this era, whether they are actually clean or not is the fact that historically there will always be questions about them. A big black cloud will hang over every player from McGwire's rookie year to present day players. Fair or unfair, that's the way it is and that's the way its going to be.

[jjwr]

Very true, very few players are going to be immune to this, anyone with big upticks in their power numbers or older players making huge combacks are all going to be seriously questioned.

Some guys will be immune, the A-Rods, Ortiz, Vlad, etc. Young power players who doing it all the way around. The overall # of HR's will obviously go up as players get stronger and better conditioned, as great as the players of yesteryear were no way they compare to the physical conditioning of today's athletes so there will be a inherent increase in the average HR #'s. Which makes it all the more startling when certain players(Sosa, Bonds) who used to be on the line of the afore mentioned players get huge and blow up their personal bests.

[JMK]

I don't think Vlad will be immune to it, or any of those other guys either. I love the Vlad, I love watching him out talent everyone else on the diamond. But I'll always remember him reporting to spring training in 2002 (I think that was the year) and he was at least 20 pounds more muscular than the previous season. He was just huge.

And now that spring training has begun, I'm very interested to see how many players will show up lighter and leaner than last year. Heck, Ivan Rodriguez reported to camp 22 pounds lighter this year than last. And you've got to know that more guys will show up lighter, and magically, they'll all spout the same reasons: We got a nutritionist, laid off the junk food, got more rest, put in more cardio work...blah blah blah. Lies. It has nothing to do with the fact that there's actual steroid testing now. Sure it doesn't.
If their power numbers drop significantly, they're going to hear it....loudly. All these guys who show up lighter had better hope they don't have a drop-off in power numbers or the suspicion will only go up even further.

[Jedieb]

Sosa is a HOF lock. Two 60+HR seasons, an MVP, and he'll probably end up with close to 600 career HR's. Even with all of his baggage, he'll eventually get in.

Bonds was an arrogant jerk for most of his press conference. In other words, he was his usual self. Bonds isn't being embraced the way McGuire was, not because he's black, but because he's a JERK. If a healthy Griffey or a still popular Sosa were chasing these records, the public would be going nuts. Aaron had to put up with a good deal of prejudice when he made his run at Ruth. Thankfully, today is a different era. Bonds can play the race card, but it's really the jerk card that's his problem.

[JMK]

Sosa is only 26 homers away from 600, barring some huge injury he's going to get there, and yeah, he's a lock for the HOF. It would be nearly unthinkable to keep a 600HR guy out.

As for Bonds, you're 100% right. The problem is that he is a grade 'A' jerk. Maybe for some race is still an issue, but for the most part they aren't heard from in sports circles anymore, and especially when it's a high profile member of a given sport.

[JMK]

So steroid testing has started. Who wants to start a pool as to who gets caught first and how many get nailed throughout the season.

Not necessarily a particular person, but the status of the player. I'm thinking that mostly mop-up guys and bench players get busted, and I'm thinking that between 6-8 guys are caught this season, with a maximum of 1 semi-'star' player being outted.

Anyone else?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I would say maybe somebody who needs them to keep playing. But no big names, they aren't that stupid.

[jjwr]

Bonds may be done for the year!

YESSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!

I doubt he's doing it out of noble intentions but I would love nothing more than for him not to be able to play again and miss stealing the records.

He should be remembered for the fantastic all around player he was that won 4 MVP's, not the bulked up hitting machine that could hardly run.

The guy is 40, if he misses this year and even tries to come back next year the clock is seriously ticking and the odds of him taking it go way down hill.

[JMK]

After hearing his little press scrum yesterday it doesn't even sound like he wants to come back. He certainly won't be breaking any records this year and he will be yet another year older when he resumes his chase. If you don't want Bonds to catch Aaron then your chances went up quite a bit today.

[LightKnight]

Originally posted by JMK
After hearing his little press scrum yesterday it doesn't even sound like he wants to come back. He certainly won't be breaking any records this year and he will be yet another year older when he resumes his chase. If you don't want Bonds to catch Aaron then your chances went up quite a bit today.

Come on guy’s he is just “tired’ Tired of the press making him use steroids. Tired of the Press making him cheat on his wife. Tired Of the press making him act like a spoiled,arsholeific S.O.B. We need to let him get some rest, cause he is Tired.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL that press conference was a piece of work honestly. I am glad this happened I hope he never plays again.

[Jedieb]

The last I heard was that Bonds would be out until midseason, but if he's gone for the season that would be sweet indeed. My guess would be he'd take as much time as possible to get his circulatory system nice and clean. Watch, he'll drag his tired 'roidless body out in 06 just so he can catch Ruth and give "Da Man" the big finger by passing their hero. Whatever Barry, Aaron had to put up with real racism. People root against you because you're a jerk, and now an admitted cheater.

Say it so Big Mac.
Man that congressional testimony was awful to watch. Mac lost a ton of first round HOF votes and the public has rightly convicted him. Anytime you take the 5th like that you got no one to blame but yourself.

[JMK]

I don't know if Barry is going to show up a shrunken man. At this point he's got nothing to lose, he may as well keep on doing what he's doing and set out what he wants to do. I think he'll be back before the end of may and continue on his quest.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I think McGwire can kiss the HOF good bye. Maybe he gets in years later but that hearing really destroyed his reputation. He is going to have to come out and beg people for forgiveness at this point.

[JMK]

I think it also partly depends on how many homers are hit in this 'steroid free' era. If people still approach 70 homers a year somehow then they say 'see, it didn't help McGwire that much.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well he won't get in on first ballot that is for sure, if the reporters conducted in the ESPN poll are telling the truth. Future votes who can say though.

[jjwr]

He's no longer a lock by any means, 580+ homers or no. He was a great home run hitter before his big stretch but when you average 60+ a year for a 4 year period and that period comes into question then you either need to pony up the truth or accept whats coming your way.

[JMK]

I still think McGwire will get in after a while. Maybe not on the first go around, but in the second or third try he will get in. Don't forget, he'll be on the ballot with others at that point who will also be suspected of using steroids, and who meant far less to baseball than McGwire - that will help Big Mac's chances of later induction.

[jjwr]

Agreed, he'll get in just not as a coveted First Ballot Hall of Famer. Steroids or not what he did(and Sosa to a smaller degree) is what helped bring Baseball back after the strike.