Harry Potter and the Half-Blood Prince

[Jedi Master Carr]

Okay this may be a hoax or it could be the truth we will have to wait and see here it is from a Harry Potter site

http://www.the-leaky-cauldron.org/MTarchives/week_2004_06_20.html#004840

Its Harry Potter and the Pillar of Storgé, it interesting title if it indeed true. I guess we will have to wait and see.

[Marcus Telcontar]

Had to look up the meaning of the word, but.... wow. That's a cool title. VERY appropriate

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I like the title too, watch it be fake :p

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Parental affection; the instinctive affection which animals have for their young.

I had to look it up too, is that the correct definition?

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep, it is from a Greek myth the Four pillars of Love

Storgé which appeals to ones love for what is defenseless and needs one's love and caring.

Philios or friendship is the love for people in general

Eros is the love that is physical

Agapé the highest form of love that can be both understood and experienced is also known as divine love

It actually fits with the series since Harry has no parents I can see where it is going. Still this could be a hoax, there has been no confirmation, this is all from one person who says he accidently got into the webisight and found this. Personally I think he is lying, he either hacked into the website or he made it up, one or the other.

[General Dan]

Harry Potter VI: HERMIONE DIES

[Lilaena De'Ville]

Harry Potter IXIV: Harry Gets a Walker

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL at LD. And Man Charlie you must have a thing for Hermione dying here heh.

[Rutabaga]

Nah, Hermione can't die, she's going to be headmistress of Hogwart's eventually, just you wait and see. ;)

The title is cool, but I bet it's a fake.

[Darth McBain]

I was wondering when we'd start getting some info on book 6. Though it could be fake, I like the title - sounds cool. I am kinda ticked a little that according to the report, it seems that this one is even longer than the 5th one. I love all of the books, but it seems like lately Rowling is just filling up pages so fast. These things are huge...

[Jedi Master Carr]

of course if that is true. Still no denial or conformation which is weird.

[ReaperFett]

Harry Potter: Oh who cares, we all know you'll buy it anyway. Why should I even try?


:p

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL that sounds like something Lucas would do with Star Wars. It is at the point where the titles no longer matter.

[Garret Treborn]

Anyone remember how many titles were floating around prior to the release of The Order of the Phoenix. And none of them were right. This title is 100% fake IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think we will be getting a title soon regardless if this is it, who knows, so far no denial or confirmation which is weird.

[Garret Treborn]

The title will be given when the sixth book is released in 2006. That is my guess for a release anyway.

[Droo]

Actually the title for book five was released a year before release.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think Book 6 will come out September 2005, but that is just my opinion.

[Droo]

You're determined to make me a miserable Potter fan, aren't you? First the QWC and now the book six release date. I say bring it out SEPTEMBER 2004!!

Well, seriously though, book five was released the equivalent of this or last weekend this time last year so hopefully we will get book six around this time next year. Fingers crossed.

On the JK Rowling website where the title is said to have been found, there is supposedly a date saying 1st July so maybe Rowling had intended to make it publice knowledge at the start of next month but we'll see.

[Eve]

TLC is saying there are inconsistencies with the language and grammer used in what the site says its the supposed video to finding the title of book six on jkrowling.com. The english is Americanized in places (not English). They say the wording is also not consistent with the way JK Rowling types/speaks either.

I noticed when I watched the video yesterday, that the type is done over. That could either be due to bad video quality, or due to someone not thinking through his/her prank very well.

Ugh, I can't wait anyway.

BTW, why does Charley want Hermoine to die?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think he feels that it is messing with Potter Fans not sure how since she isn't the main focus of the story. About the title, it appears to be a hoax, a very clever one though. I still wish the site would just deny it then to settle the matter. About the release date. I wish it could come by the end of this year, but it doesn't seem possible. According to rumors she is about finished with the first draft so gather with that I say it will get released sometime next year.

[Shawn]

Originally posted by Eve
BTW, why does Charley want Hermoine to die? Because Hermione dies.

[Eve]

Nut uh. Explain.

[General Dan]

Originally posted by Eve
BTW, why does Charley want Hermoine to die?

Because with the last book, there was this enormously huge zerg rush of nerds on the internet who were frothing at the mouth due to a rumor that Hermione dies in the next book. It became something of an internet joke.

On top of that, I don't like Harry Potter at all.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Actually Shawn she doesn't , I don't see her dying, of the three the most likely to die honestly is Harry, he could sacrifice himself to save the world I could see that happening, otherwise they all will surivive, I am leaning towards that right now. Of course back when Charley posted that rumor I knew he was messing with us and I just ignored it, so I say ignore it now :p

[General Dan]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Actually Shawn she doesn't , I don't see her dying, of the three the most likely to die honestly is Harry, he could sacrifice himself to save the world I could see that happening, otherwise they all will surivive, I am leaning towards that right now. Of course back when Charley posted that rumor I knew he was messing with us and I just ignored it, so I say ignore it now :p

You really don't get the internet, do you?

[Marcus Telcontar]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Actually Shawn she doesn't , I don't see her dying, of the three the most likely to die honestly is Harry, he could sacrifice himself to save the world I could see that happening, otherwise they all will surivive, I am leaning towards that right now. Of course back when Charley posted that rumor I knew he was messing with us and I just ignored it, so I say ignore it now :p

Why on earth's name did you tag that?

[Shawn]

I was having a laugh, that's all. :)

[Droo]

Originally posted by Marcus Telcontar
Why on earth's name did you tag that?

Book 5 spoilers follow:

Because the point he makes about Harry dying is probably not just a stab in the dark, most people have made this assumption based on the revelation of Trelawny's prediction in the Department of Mysteries. As such it wil come as an indirect spoiler of book five.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah that is why I did. Also now the official site has been updated. The Storage title has been completly denied. But there is a puzzel on her site which will reveal the new title. I sat there and tried to figure it out. You have to get the bricks in the correct sequence. But I gave up after 30 minutes. And I read the spoiler at Mugglenet. and title is Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince I have no clue what that means it is different I am guessing it refers to Voldemort somehow but that is just a guess since Voldemort is a half blood.

Edit I took the spoilers out because I figure most of you won't venture to try to figure it out on the site :p

[Ryan Pode]

http://money.cnn.com/2004/06/29/news/newsmakers/harrypotter/index.htm?cnn=yes

The article in case anyone else wants to see it.


She seemed to confirm the Half Blood Prince title on the Daily News page by adding "The HBP is neither Harry nor Voldemort," she wrote. Lord Voldemort is the series' villain.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Thats cool, it looks like I was wrong about who the title was refering too. What half-bloods are there then? I know there is Lupin (he has been confirmed to be a half-blood Wizard) Hagrid is a half blood giant. Don't know of anyone else unless Snape is revealed to be a half-blood. It could be a new character as well I guess.

[Marcus Telcontar]

The real title sorta sucks.

[Live Wire]

yep thats the real title msn confirmed it and apparetly rowlings called the "pillar of storge" a laughable title.


http://entertainment.msn.com/news/article.aspx?news=162719

[Droo]

I love HBP, it makes a nice change from the "Harry Potter and the X of the Y" or "Harry Potter and the X of Y". The only exception to that rule is Philosopher's Stone and I love the idea of finding out who the Halfblood Prince will be.

[Eve]

Do they ever say whether Snape is a half blood? I just know Snape is a big part of Harry's story somehow.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I love the title too it is better than that Storage junk (that word was just way too hard for people to say) About who it is I am not sure, I want to say Lupin, because there is more to him we don't know. It could be Snape I suppose or maybe Hagrid. Unless they bring a character we haven't seen in a while (like Krum, who knows what lineage he is) but it could be a new character (people on the Harry Potter boards are saying maybe Mark Evans) or the new DADA perhaps. Or it could not be a person it could be a spell, a prophecy, a book, etc there are a lot of possbilities. Another reason I like the title.

[Tiberius Anar]

"Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince" I prefered the other one better. Damn!

[Figrin D'an]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Yeah I like the title too...



Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
I love the title too it is better than that Storage junk (that word was just way too hard for people to say


:rolleyes


What's so difficult about "storge"? And God forbid that literature actually use words with which people might be unfamiliar.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL well it would be a tough title for some people to say :p Not me persay but I can imagine some people especially since 90% probably don't know what it is. Interestingly enough Rowling was appalled that anybody believed it, not sure what she means by that. Maybe that it wouldn't be something that would be coming from her. The Pillar of Storage is a part of mythology but I can see, after really thinking about it, that overdoing the whole Parental love stuff about Harry. I think most people know by now that his parents love him, so I don't think he needs to go looking for a Pillar. Truthly I did say I liked it, I thought it could work and I really didn't sit down and think about how it fit with the rest of the series. Still, I was very very skeptical of it, to tell you the truth mostly because of the source I think I predicted it might be a hoax:p. I would have accepted it, but I do like this title better because it is way more ambigious and doesn't tell you anything about the plot.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Okay the release date has been announced coming out in July :)

http://entertainment.tv.yahoo.com/entnews/ap/20041221/110364492000.html

I am really glad at least we don't have to wait three years this time.

[jjwr]

Now that I've finally caught up I'm very much looking forward to next July!

A few things I am hoping for

#1 - Less whining!
#2 - Less beating around the bush, getting tired of all sorts of secrets and people not talking to each other and then it all coming out at the very end.
#3 - More Magic! Harry is in his 6th year, the DA studied a ton and after all that in the climax of book 5 he barley used more than 2 or 3 spells and nothing cool and powerfull like all the adults were using.
#4 - Ron & Hermy - it has to happen!

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think there will be less whinning. I think Harry will be more isolated he will isolate himself becuase of the prophecy and he don't want people around him to die. Although I think the prophecy secert will come out at some point in the book with Ron and Hermione finding out. With more magic I think that will happen. I suspect there will be a better DADA teacher this time. We had two duds in a row we need a good guy in that position for a change. As for Ron and Hermione I think we will get more of it don't know if it will get full blown in the book or not.
Now there are two big questions for me. Who in the heck is the half-Blood prince? She has ruled out Harry or Voldemort and she said somewhere it isn't Hagrid. My guess is Lupin, because he is a half-Blood. I guess it could be a surprise and it be Snape or Dumbledore. Unless it turns out to be the new DADA.
My other question is who is going to die? She has said more people are going to die, and I feel we will have several deaths in this book. There is a war going on and I suspect people are going to be dropping. We might not know most of them alot of the order for example names we have heard but characters we reallly don't know. I do think we will have one major character die right now I am suspecting Dumbledore but that is just a feeling it could also be Lupin.

[jjwr]

Its almost a given a few more members of the order will go down, very possibly one of the Weasleys? They have all been built up quite a bit and right now Ron's Mum is kind of the adopted mother of the Order and would be a hard blow to everyone without being one of the big ones.

A few well known students could turn up dead, Seamus, Dean, maybe Cho?

I can't see Dumbledore dying, he's really the only thing keeping Voldemort in check, he may go down in the last book in the final battle type of situation, he goes down and Harry steps up to take on Voldemort by himself without the shield of Dumbledore around him.

Lupin...he's really the last tie to Harry's father with Sirius dead so if he goes it leaves Harry alone, again I would more lean toward a Weasley(or two?)

[Jedi Master Carr]

I would say Dumbledore because I think Harry needs his death to move on to face Voldemort. Now this might happen actually in the half way point of Book 7 don't know. It could happen at the very end of HBP leading to major problems in book 7. I think at the end of book 7 I see war coming to Hogwarts I think Voldemort and his followers will attack the school and I think that will be because Dumbledore has already been taken out of the picture. As for other deaths I agree with you about some of the Weasleys. I don't think Arthur because he was almost killed in OOTP. There is Mrs Weasley, Percy, Charlie, and Bill. Any of them could die. Also there is the possibility of Hermione's Parents. I think Lucius Malfoy is going to do something nasty after being locked in Azkaban (you know he will escape) and I think he will come after either a Weasley or Hermione's parents or both. Though we haven't seen them it would be a huge blow for Hermione.

[jjwr]

The point about not having seen Hermione's parents is a big one, they may get killed but wouldn't qualify as the main character death.

As much as Lucius hates the Weasley's it could be any one of them, maybe the twins? Though the seem more powerfull then they let on, Percy is very possible, it won't be Ron and Ginny has already had her run in.

Good points on Dumbledore, I would imagine that would all get crammed into Book 7 though, or like you said be the cliff-hanger at the end of book 6.

Open war in Hogwarts would be interesting, it would be fun to see all the various teachers get into it as well as waves of students stepping up.

Another thought...at some point before the end Ron or Hermoine has to take down, maybe even kill Draco, he is obviously a supporter. He would be the perfect choice for a inside source to gather students to Voldemorts side and when the battle happens he could lead a attack from Within. You know Ron & Hermoine will have their moments at the end, their own final fight and it would be perfect for Ron to take him on.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I would love to see Ron take out Draco it would just seem fitting. Maybe Draco is about to kill Hermione and Ron takes him out, I could see that.

[jjwr]

That I could definetly see, and it would be very fitting.

[Jedi Master Carr]

The cover art for all the different versions are out here is the U.S one

http://www.mugglenet.com/viewer/?image_location=harrypotter6_HR.jpg

I like it, it gives it a very mysterious look. I am surprised to see Dumbledore on the cover. First time that has happened.

[Darth McBain]

I like it too. I'm pretty psyched for this book. I hope I'll be in a position to read it when it comes out, though. Right now I'm working on the Dark Tower books (I'm about halfway done - great series), and of course there's Ep. III in May. There'll be too many different mythologies going on at once in my head - I may unfortunately need to wait a little while before diving into this one...

[Lorani T'sava]

It won't matter to me if I'm in the middle of reading another book or 6, when the book comes out, I'm picking it up (pre-ordered) and reading it immediatly.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Same here I am going to probably pick it up midnight the night before and start reading it the next day. I really want to see what happens.

[Sejah Haversh]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr


http://www.mugglenet.com/viewer/?image_location=harrypotter6_HR.jpg




"...instead of a lord, you would have a QUEEEEN! Well, an old drag queen with a beard, but still. Say, you've still got that ring right? Wait, what the hell? Where's Snape? Better yet, where the hell am I?"

The cover just screams it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Since we have a few months lets debate who the half-blood prince will be. We know it is not Harry or Voldemort and it can't be any purebloods or people with no magical parents and I read somewhere it is not Hagrid so that leaves. Lupin, Snape, Dumbledore, the new DADA, or a half-blood student (since we don't know the parentage of most of the students there is no point in go over candidates here) I am leaning towards Lupin, but heck it could be Snape for all I know. Although Dumbledore is on the cover but watch it be the new DADA.

[Gav Mortis]

http://www.mugglenet.com/viewer/?image_location=hbpchild.jpg

The UK children's cover gives me shivers. I love it. :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah the U.K covers are better IMO.

[Phantom]

Though I'd laugh if it was Snape, I doubt its actually him. I don't think he's a half blood.

If you remember, in OOTP Snape called Harrys mother a "filthy mudblood" so I doubt he'd have called her that if he himself was only a half blood as well.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well
Voldemort is a half-blood himself so who knows. And he calls people mudblood (COS comes to mind). Right now I think it is going to be Lupin but that is just my guess.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Okay a little more than 2 weeks to the release, actually 17 days. So what do you think is going to happen? Who is the half blood prince? And for those refusing to read spoilers who is going to die? Because it has been revealed somebody big does die, the quest is who. First I have no idea what will happen specifically, though we know they will get their OWL results and they will be in their six year studying for the futures. Also everybody knows Voldemort is back and what that means will be interesting. Will Voldemort start killing people? Will the Dementors return? Or the Giants? As for the other questions, I know think the Half-Blood Prince is Dumbledore. It fits that he would be the one since he is the leader of the good side so he would be the this ideallic ruler. As for the spoiler I also think it will Dumbledore that will die. Dumbledore is all that stands in the way between Harry and Voldemort, so it fits that he will die at the end of Book Six, setting up a epic battle in Book 7 where I think Voldemort will attack the school with his evil armies (including the Dementors, Giants, and I am sure other Dark creatures). Should be interesting to see what happens in this book, I can't wait.

[Droo]

I'm not trying to suss out what's going to happen. I'm keeping my mind blank so that the suprise factor is at it's highest.

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is understandable, I doubt I will know much but I love to speculate because it is fun, heck I can be wrong, I was with OOTP, I was figuring either Hagrid or Mrs Weasley was going to die.

[Phantom]

Well I have a theory; I believe it will be Lupin who dies. If you remember in GoF, Voldemort gives peter a silver arm after it was cut off for Voldemorts return. As Lupin is a werewolf he can be harmed by silver. Also, the name Remus comes from a greek mythology Remus who had a brother named Romulous who kills Remus ... Just something to think about.

[Daiquiri]

Im kind of thinking the 'Prince' will be a new character. As far as who dies, Im thinking its prolly Dumbledore but would rather it be someone else. McGonagall comes to mind as one who might pass or even Arthur Weasley. Percy needs to die as well.

Id love to see Neville take out Beatrix Lestrang (Death Eater) or even Lucius Malfoy, but better yet either Neville or Ron take out Draco.

Gabby will get the book when it comes out, so it will be a day - day and 1/2 before I get to read it :(

[jjwr]

Wow only 17 days! I'll definetly be reading it, probably wait until I go on vacation in August though so I have something really good to read.

No clue on the Prince, lots of people could fit the bill, I'm more interested in finding out who bites it.

I can see it being Dumbledore, with him around theres no clear path to a Harry vs Voldemort so he needs to be removed for the fight we all want to finally happen. Assuming that happens I would be very interested to see how they make Harry take down a Wizard who beat Dumbledore as Dumbledore has been built up as just about the more powerfull Wizard out there(or the most powerful).

Neville needs to kick somebodies butt! Odds are we will get to a point where each of the major characters is fighting someone or has someone specific that is their final battle in the books, most likely in book 7, assuming they all live and Dumbledore dies like I assumed then....

Harry vs Voldemort
Ron vs Percy(who goes truly bad!)
Neville vs Beatrix
Hermoine vs Draco
Lupin vs Lucious

That does leave Peter and the rest of the Weasleys as well as Mcgonacal without a foil but there will be plenty of Death Eaters to go around.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I think it will be Ron vs Draco for some reason, my theory is that somehow Draco gets the jump on Hermoine and Draco is going to kill her but Ron stops him and kills Draco, fits with the whole Ron-Hermoine romance. But who knows I could be wrong there. I think Lupin and Peter will face off the whole silver hand is too obvious, Lupin I guess could beat him, it will be hard to say.

[Daiquiri]

Isnt it funny that I havent seen anyone of us mention Snape. I dont think he will die (hes too important a foil for Harry) but it would be fun to watch him in action against his former brethern :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

The question with Snape is I have no idea which side he will end up on. I think he is good, no he is bad, no he is good so many times its hard to interpert his really intentions. One thing is he despises Harry and the question is can he overcome that? If he can't he could be a candidate for a traitor, of course he might and help Harry in the end it could go either way. I think that is partly why Voldemort is keeping him around, he is no fool he knows Snape betrayed him once but he knows that Snape hates Harry which means a lot so Voldemort lets him live until he sees how that plays out.

[Daiquiri]

I think that Snape will remain 'good'; that is to say I feel he has too much respect for Dumbledore and the second chance he was given. Yes, Snape can be extremely nasty and yes, he despises Harry with a passion but would he turn on him...I highly doubt it. While Severus still retains the sting of James Potter's barbs and foolish actions towards him, I think he can rise above that when it comes down to the nitty-gritty and realize that Harry is still a kid.

[jjwr]

I totally forgot about Snape, he has had plenty of chances to take down Harry or mess up the whole thing and he always comes through in the end.

Its possibly Ron takes down Draco, Lupin takes on Peter and that would let Snape take on Lucious which would be an awesome fight, especially considering the two actors involved.

[Daiquiri]

Snape vs Malfoy = :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

About one week left, here is the picture of the back cover of the novel
http://www.mugglenet.com/viewer/?image_location=hbpbackcover1.jpg

For those who don't want to see it the dark mark over hogwarts looks like somebody is going to die there now. The four people under it are I think Ron, Hermione Ginny (you can tell by the red hair) and I am not sure about the last one it would have to be either Neville or Luna. That is sure a very omnious back cover

[Jedi Master Carr]

All I can say is whoops
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20050712/ap_en_ot/harry_potter_early_sale

that is big mistake though I wonder if anybody will bring the book back. Of course now spoilers will come out though I need to stay firm and not read any only got 4 days to go.

[Darth McBain]

I was going to order mine on Amazon, but it's past the point where you can get guaranteed delivery on the release date. :( I'll definitely be swinging by Borders and picking this one up when it comes out (though I may want to reread book 5 before diving into it - it's been a while and I can't remember all that went on in OOTP)

[Daiquiri]

My girls and I have re-read all 5 books this past week, just to refresh our memories :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh I did the same thing, I might stop by Barnes and Noble at midnight and pick up my copy or just head to a Walmart which ever is more convient.

[jjwr]

As much as I'll want to read it I'm going to wait until August when we go on vacation, I don't really have the $$$ to get the book right now and don't want to buy a hardcover anyways, so I'll borrow my sisters once she's done and read it on vacation.

As for the early birds, its funny the judge ordered them not to read it. Though if they return it they get a gift pack and a autograph so waiting 4 days might be worth it.

[Daiquiri]

so I'll borrow my sisters once she's done and read it on vacation.

What about your local library...will they have it?

[Jedi Master Carr]

probably hard to get, I know the local library here had the last one but from what I heard it was hard to get for months.

[Cat Terrist]

Just a bit of advice, avoid spoilers. The one for page 606 is a mindblower. No seriously, it's now known who dies and whom did it and.... you wont believe it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I have heard its Dumbledore but of course that rumor has been around for weeks so who knows if that is true. Even if it is DD don't tell me who did it, I want one surprise.

[Cat Terrist]

Given someone on SA got 'talked' to for releasing info about the book, I sure as hell aint going to say anything now.

rumour is right

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well say no more. Of course I am not surprised it is out there since the book has been sold in Canada by mistake. Heck compared to other things like Star Wars the thing has been kept more secert.

[Droo]

This time tomorrow, and I will have it in my hands. IN MY HANDS! HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!! :D

[Jedi Master Carr]

heh you will get it earlier than me, I won't get it until midnight tomorrow.

[Jedi Master Carr]

About 11 hours to go here, it is even closer in the UK, you lucky souls.

[Baralai Lotus]

You all. . .have no idea how badly I want to run my mouse over the spoilers. . .I am dying. . .I need to know what happens in this book. I'm getting mine tonight, and I'm very excited. . .Only 8 hours to go. . .Fantastic Four and Harry Potter, life is gonna be good. In any case, time to go get cute for shopping and Harry Potter! ~_^ Toodles ladies and gents!

[Jedi Master Carr]

Heh well it is probably best to not know and read it that way you are surprised. I gave into tempetation and now something but it really doesn't bother me.

[Marceloi]

DONT read spoiler. Believe me, dont do it, enjoy the book.

[Droo]

Hi guys, just thought I'd like you all to know I'm home safely with my copy of Harry Potter and the Halfblood Prince and that I wont be around much this weekend since I have a whole year at Hogwarts to catch up on.

... :D:D:D!!!

[Lorani T'sava]

Let's see, I still have over 24 hours to go before I can pick up my copy. Stupid work.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I got mine a little while go, waited in line at my local Book-a-Million for 40 minutes. It was amazing to see the people waiting for it it felt like the anticipation of a star wars movie. Like Droo I will be doing a lot of reading this weekend.

[Marceloi]

Up to Chapter 7. Not bad!

[Ryan Pode]

The Half-Blood Prince is Voldemort. I'm only in chapter 12, but judging by the way Harry talks about what the Prince writes in his textbook it just makes sense... Half-pureblood/Half-muggle. Prince of Darkness...

[Marceloi]

Wrong! JKR has said consistently neither Voldemort or Potter are the HBP

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yep no voldie as HBP, JKR said that herself. Also no spoilers outside of using tags, please. People will be mad if it is spoiled for them. about third of the way through and one thing, Snape the Defense against the Dark Teacher. That isn't a good sign for him, I suppose he could be poitions again, by the end

[Marceloi]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
Yep no voldie as HBP, JKR said that herself. Also no spoilers outside of using tags, please. People will be mad if it is spoiled for them. about third of the way through and one thing, Snape the Defense against the Dark Teacher. That isn't a good sign for him, I suppose he could be poitions again, by the end

Nope, not a good sign and nope, your wrong what happens to him. Keep reading, I'm not going to even put it into a spolier, read it for yourselves. It's just so... delicious Rowling screwed with everyone with the HBP. We all thought it was somethign gee whiz and wow, yet the real HBP is so.... mundane. I personally loved that

[Darth McBain]

I am picking up my book in a few hours... Must... resist... spoilers... :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

I read some spoilers and now I wish that I hadn't :( Damn internet.

[Marceloi]

Finished.

WOW.

Book 7 is set up bloody well

[Ryan Pode]

Really? He is the half-blood prince? Well poop. It makes sense... but anyone else notice how vicious Harry seems to be getting went confronting Malfory and co.? Particularly his mom in the cloak shop... tho that was early on it really stuck out as not very Harry-ish.

[Ryan Pode]

I am done with the book.


:cry I'll wait till other people finish before I speak.

[jjwr]

I'm avoiding all spoilers but just to be safe I considered getting this today but don't really have the $$$. I'll just have to be carefull until I can get a copy.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I finished it I just had to it was that much of a page turner, here are my thoughts under spoilers of course
Don't read this if you haven't finished the book please
5
4
3
2
1



First I found the book amazing in terms of storying telling, Harry is becoming much stronger and more corageous he is starting to become the hero. Now Dumbledore that was very very sad I felt worse after his death than that of Siruis. It is because Dumbledore was that much of an important figure in the books and he was always there and now he is gone. And Snape being the killer that was the shocker of shockers. This ranks up there with Empire Strikes Back as one of the biggest shockers in literature or movies. Even though I was never sure he was good but I just didn't expect it and now I believe Snape was always bad from the start. He obviously hid his true feelings from Dumbledore he lied to him and used his abilities to keep the secert from him. Why did Dumbledore believe him? I felt like Lupin it was just hard to believe considering the fact he told Voldemort about the Prophecy. Actually the betrayal is similar to what happened to the Wizard Merlin because he put too much trust in a socerous named Vivian who was once a student of the evil Morgan Le Fey, he was betrayed by her just like Snape betrayed Dumbldore.

With the death and the betrayal by Snape, I did see some hope first the romances. Well it is now a fact that Harry and Ginny are in love. Harry is trying to distance himself from her though because he doesn't want to lose her, but I bet Ginny will be near him, she has become a very skilled witch herself and I think she can protect herself. And of course Ron and Hermione, their scenes of jealousy were the funniest in the book they way they picked at each other. While they never said they were together, I think its obvious at the end of the novel they are with the way Hermione was crying on Ron shoulder and he was trying to comfort her.
So where does it go from there? Will the school be closed? Will Harry come back if it stays open? Personally, I think it will remain opened and for some reason Harry will have to come back. Voldemort will attack the school I am certain of it and will bring an army of his followers from the Dementors, Giants, the undead, werewolves and his loyal band of Death Eaters. I see a huge battle at the school, one rivaling the battle of Mirias Tirith in ROTK. And Harry and Voldemort will be locked in a climatic battle somewhere in the school (I am betting on the Chamber of Secerts). No clue who will take out Snape could be Harry, maybe the worthless Pettigrew (who I think will do something to help Harry before the books end), maybe Hagrid will tear him from limb from limb, after what he had done I would like to see it. The question is Malfoy he could actually change I think but we will see. So much to think about and take in of course the saddness of the ending is great and that makes it harder to think what will happen now

[Sudoku]

For all you anti-spoiler people (I havent read the books, but I know what happens :o)

http://www.frozenreality.co.uk/comic/bunny/index.php?id=317

[Figrin D'an]

Picked it up on Saturday, am a few chapters into it. The writing in the first chapter seemed really choppy, but it improved afterward. I wonder if Rowling spent more time on other parts of the story, and really didn't bother to closely scrutinize the opening of the book. It could have used another look or two, IMO. Anyway, that's not enough to make me stop reading, it's just an observation.

[Jedi Master Carr]

It also seemed so different, I was shocked to see two chapters that weren't about Harry and it wasn't like Harry was dreaming these moments either (like in GOF). Still that didn't bother me that was the weakest part of the book, IMO.

[Ryan Pode]

I kind of was intrigued by how little the muggles knew. I always assumed more than just the prime minister knew.

[Jedi Master Carr]

yeah that part was interesting. I think it was different I might feel differently when I read it for a second time.

[Lilaena De'Ville]

I'm sorry but this ( one rivaling the battle of Mirias Tirith in ROTK. ) made me laugh.

[Wei Wu Wei]

I finished it in 15 hours. It was incredibly fun. I particularly enjoyed it. How many books did Rowling say was going to be in this series? I forgot.

[Ryan Pode]

One more.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Lilaena De'Ville
I'm sorry but this ( one rivaling the battle of Mirias Tirith in ROTK. ) made me laugh.

Well I am talking about scope and size of battle. I think it will because the sixth book set it up. Voldemort has a huge army now in that book of the undead, werewolves, dementors (they have multiplied in the thousands now), Giants and his loyal band of Death Eaters. He probably has an army that can reach the millions about the same size that Sauron had in ROTK, of course the size of good I am not sure has the same amount of forces unless Harry finds some ally in the next book. Of course the battle will be one more of magic than pure action like in ROTK but scope wise it will be huge.

[Daiquiri]

Originally posted by Wei Wu Wei
I finished it in 15 hours. It was incredibly fun. I particularly enjoyed it. How many books did Rowling say was going to be in this series? I forgot.

I did it in 9 1/2 - 10 :)

I would post more but seeing as how I havent the slightest clue as how to use the spoiler tags, I wont. Help?

[Shawn]

Well, since I already read GoF a few months ago, and I got curious to read HBP, I picked up OotP yesterday and read it cover to cover. :) I have to say, I've been sucked into the Harry Potter craze... just a little bit, though. ;) I'll probably pick up HBP tomorrow.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Daiquiri
I did it in 9 1/2 - 10 :)

I would post more but seeing as how I havent the slightest clue as how to use the spoiler tags, I wont. Help?

to do spoilers use {spoiler} {/spoiler} use [ instead of }

[Droo]

I personally don't think Snape has betrayed Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore knew Snape did what he had to do and that his pleading moments before his death was only to enforce the charade. If there's one thing Dumbledore has been consistently certain about throughout the series, it is in Snape's loyalty. He had to kill him; he had made the Unbreakable Vow and couldn't afford to lose face in front of his fellow Death Eaters. In the scenario in the astronomy tower, Dumbledore had no chance whatsoever, and if Snape didn't kill him he may have died due to the vow he made. What good would it be to Harry and the Order of the Phoenix if they were to lose both Dumbledore and Snape in the one night?

Snape did not duel Harry but merely deflected his attacks and he stopped someone putting the Cruciatius Curse on him, too. Also, when he bellowed "I'M NOT A COWARD!" according to how it was written there was a great deal of pain in his voice. I don't think he wanted to kill Dumbledore at all but has done it for the greater good. Of this, I am absolutely certain, and believe we will see this revelation in the seventh book.

As for losing Dumbledore; I am absolutely devastated.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Originally posted by Droo
I personally don't think Snape has betrayed Dumbledore. I think Dumbledore knew Snape did what he had to do and that his pleading moments before his death was only to enforce the charade. If there's one thing Dumbledore has been consistently certain about throughout the series, it is in Snape's loyalty. He had to kill him; he had made the Unbreakable Vow and couldn't afford to lose face in front of his fellow Death Eaters. In the scenario in the astronomy tower, Dumbledore had no chance whatsoever, and if Snape didn't kill him he may have died due to the vow he made. What good would it be to Harry and the Order of the Phoenix if they were to lose both Dumbledore and Snape in the one night?

Snape did not duel Harry but merely deflected his attacks and he stopped someone putting the Cruciatius Curse on him, too. Also, when he bellowed "I'M NOT A COWARD!" according to how it was written there was a great deal of pain in his voice. I don't think he wanted to kill Dumbledore at all but has done it for the greater good. Of this, I am absolutely certain, and believe we will see this revelation in the seventh book.

As for losing Dumbledore; I am absolutely devastated.


personally I am not sure, I think it fits with his character. My problem with that scenerio though is nobody will believe snape at this point, unless he has some proof we don't know about it. I am sure if he tells Harry that, that he would not believe him. That is why I don't think that scenerio really works. What I think happened is Snape made the choice that his life was more important than DD's was. I need to reread the book though because I thought for sure that Snape came close to killing Harry but Buckbeak came soaring through and knocked him away. Too bad we will have to wait two years to find out the truth

[Daiquiri]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
to do spoilers use {spoiler} {/spoiler} use [ instead of }

Thank you, Carr! :)

[Daiquiri]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
personally I am not sure, I think it fits with his character. My problem with that scenerio though is nobody will believe snape at this point, unless he has some proof we don't know about it. I am sure if he tells Harry that, that he would not believe him. That is why I don't think that scenerio really works. What I think happened is Snape made the choice that his life was more important than DD's was. I need to reread the book though because I thought for sure that Snape came close to killing Harry but Buckbeak came soaring through and knocked him away. Too bad we will have to wait two years to find out the truth


Bah! I just tried the { } instead of the usual [ ] and it didnt work :(

[Jedi Master Carr]

oh you have to use these [] maybe I miswrote that above the ohers won't work.

[Droo]

Originally posted by Jedi Master Carr
personally I am not sure, I think it fits with his character. My problem with that scenerio though is nobody will believe snape at this point, unless he has some proof we don't know about it. I am sure if he tells Harry that, that he would not believe him. That is why I don't think that scenerio really works. What I think happened is Snape made the choice that his life was more important than DD's was. I need to reread the book though because I thought for sure that Snape came close to killing Harry but Buckbeak came soaring through and knocked him away. Too bad we will have to wait two years to find out the truth

When it is revealed that Snape is not on Voldermort's side, it will be through his actions not his words. When Dumbledore was pleading, not only did it help Snape enhance his treachery of Dumbledore but I believe Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him rather than not. Weakened, outnumbered and defenseless; Dumbledore unfortunately did not stand a chance and would rather be finished off by a trusted friend rather than at the hands of a Death Eater.

[Daiquiri]

Originally posted by Droo
When it is revealed that Snape is not on Voldermort's side, it will be through his actions not his words. When Dumbledore was pleading, not only did it help Snape enhance his treachery of Dumbledore but I believe Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him rather than not. Weakened, outnumbered and defenseless; Dumbledore unfortunately did not stand a chance and would rather be finished off by a trusted friend rather than at the hands of a Death Eater.


Originally posted by Droo
When it is revealed that Snape is not on Voldermort's side, it will be through his actions not his words. When Dumbledore was pleading, not only did it help Snape enhance his treachery of Dumbledore but I believe Dumbledore was pleading with Snape to kill him rather than not. Weakened, outnumbered and defenseless; Dumbledore unfortunately did not stand a chance and would rather be finished off by a trusted friend rather than at the hands of a Death Eater.


While Droo's speculation may have some good merit to it, Im not so sure about Snape, now. In one of my earlier posts I had stated that I believed Snape would remain 'good' and loyal to Dumbledore but now upon reading THBP, Im rethinking my stand.[/spolier]

[spoiler]While on top of the tower and after Snape joins the others up there, Dumbledore is the only one who can clearly see Snape's expression. "Snape said nothing, but walked forward and pushed Malfoy roughly out of the way. The three Death Eaters fell back without a word. Even the werewolf seemed cowed. Snape gazed for a moment at Dumbledore, and there was revulsion and hatred in the harsh lines of his face."

Why the hate and revulsion if noone else can see his expression except Dumbledore? If Snape is truly loyal and respectful of his Head Master then why not show remorse for what hes being 'forced' to do? Even beyond that, Snape couldve taken the other DE's out of the picture. easily since none of them would have expected him to turn on them. Malfoy's memory could have been modified so that he wouldnt have remembered what happened.

My biggest reason for thinking that Snape has truly been aligned all along with Voldemort is this: there was never any reason for Snape to have made the Unbreakable Vow. He could have easily sent BL and NM off into the night without it. Why do it?

[Droo]

To answer all of that, he did it all in the way he did, in order to save face in front of the people he's trying to convince he is on their side, ie. Voldemort's followers.

[Daiquiri]

While I know and understand that Dumbledore needed to be out of the way so that Harry can finally face Voldemort on his own, I still have serious doubts that Snape is loyal to the Order, especially after taking the vow and reading the description of Snape's expression.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I agree with you there, why make the vow? He could have told Narcissa that Voldemort's will doesn't need to be questioned, that would have satisfied Bella that is for sure, unless there is some hidden secret with Snape and the Malfoys that we don't know about yet. I personally think Snape is a player kind of like Pettigrew in that he goes to which ever side he thinks is winning, he is more out for himself, IMO. However, I think he could redem himself much like Anakin did maybe sacrificing himself to save Harry in the final battle that is the only way I could even have any remorse for him right now.

On a happier note
what was the happiest moment in the book?
For me it was when Harry kissed Ginny in the common room that was really a surprise. Sure he was having feelings for her but he didn't seem to want to express them and then he kisses her in front of everybody that was just terrific. They are working out better than Ron and Hermione, at times, I wanted to hit Ron for being such a prat (even though I really like his character). I think in book 7 they will finally be together.

[Droo]

Snape's allegiances aside, here's something I've been thinking about the seventh instalment in the Harry Potter series.

In HBP we learnt about Horcruxes; the method by which Voldemort remains immortal; and that the dark lord has supposedly created six of them. The seventh piece of Voldemort's soul being the last piece within his body. The diary has been destroyed. The ring also. That leaves the locket, the cup, the snake, and aparently something belonging to Gryffindoor or Ravenclaw.

Dumbledore said that the behaviour of the snake, Nagini was curious. It had changed since becoming a Horcrux to a piece of Voldemort's soul and he also said:

"However, if my calculations are correct, Voldemort was still at least one Horcrux short of his goal of six when he entered your parents' with the intention of killing you."

When he tried to kill Harry, the spell apparently backfire, leaving Voldemort almost dead and Harry with an odd scar. When he grew up, it became apparent that Harry posessed some of the qualities of Lord Voldemort; he's a parselmouth, he is a powerful wizard, he wields Voldermort's brother wand, he has a thirst to prove himself, etc; but what is most interesting is that there seems to be a connection between him and Voldemort.

His scar burned when Voldermort was near or feeling some intense emotion and he could see what Voldemort was seeing on occassion. There's a definite link between them and I think I know why:

I believe Harry Potter is Voldermort's sixth and final horcrux.

I think that inside Harry is a piece of Voldemort's soul and that is why he posesses so many of his qualities. Why would Voldemort use the boy, who was according to the prophecy destined to defeat him, as a horcrux in which to store a piece of his soul? Simple. In order for his enemy to defeat him, he must first be dead. And if this is the case, while Harry Potter lives, Lord Voldemort cannot die.

There is a big question mark over the fourth of the remaining horcruxes and I think this is why; it's a really interesting twist and I'm going to ponder on this theory more in the future.

[Daiquiri]

That is a really good point, Droo and I almost agreed with you until I remembered the ending of GoF. Voldemort tried to kill Harry then and it was only because their wands were 'brothers' that he failed. If Harry were a horcrux for Voldemort, it woud make sense as to why Harry has so many of the same qualities. Could it be that Harry actually is a horcrux without voldemort knowing? And if so, wouldnt Harry need to die in order to destroy that piece of soul?

[Jedi Master Carr]

that is an interesting theory but I am not sure if Voldemort would have done it mainly because he was trying to kill Harry when he was a baby. If it happened it was by accident.

[Daiquiri]

I agree, it would have definitely been an accident!

As for happiest moment...hmmm. Ive got 2 or 3 and pick between them. The first being when Fleur announced that she was still going to marry Bill - surprised me. I rather thought she was shallow and would dump him because of his new look. My second choice is at the funeral, when Ron was comforting Hermione, though sadly it took something so drastic to bring them together.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah that did surprise me with Fleur. And I agree with you about that scene with Ron and Hermione it was a sad moment that showed how emotional that ending was.

[Droo]

Actually, if it were accidental, it would make much more sense and would cover the whole issue of Voldemort trying to kill Harry in GoF and OotP.

[Shawn]

WOW. I felt that the book kind of plodded along for a very long while, but the final 200 pages or so were absolutely gripping.

As for Snape still working for the Order of the Phoenix and killing Dumbledore only because he had to: I don't know. It seems plausible. I think the strongest argument for this is that Dumbledore was always faithful in him. It was emphasized dozens of times throughout the book, and even the other characters were mystified at the end at how Dumbledore could have trusted him so thoroughly. Still, it's so easy to hate him. And there is that whole Unbreakable Vow business.

I thought it was interesting to see a bit of pathos introduced into Draco's character. You do kind of pity him, just a bit, at the end.

The next book is going to be really amazing, since it will likely break away from the mold all of the books have set so far. Instead of another year at Hogwart's, full of nasty teachers and troublesome bullies, we should see Harry setting out on his own, tracking down the Horcrux's, and learning to get by without Dumbledore to fall back on.

I liked learning more about Voldemort. This was the book that took him away from "generic bad guy" and put a real face on him, for me. He's not at all unlike Anakin, really.

Edit: Unrelated, but I can't remember: Was it ever explained how House Elves can apparate inside Hogwarts?

[Jedi Master Carr]

I am not sure about House Elves I know they have some magic which other wizards don't possess.
Yeah I agree with you about the difference in book 7 it should be a large difference. I do think the school will come into play again. I think Voldemort wants Hogwarts for some reason. And I see a huge magical battle with all the players on the table should be an exciting book

[Daiquiri]

omg, Shawn, Im so glad you brought up that point - I had wondered that myself!! How do the house elves apparate when noone else can?
As Carr said, the house elves do have magic abilities and we know that Dobby could apparate to and from the Dursley's but it doesnt explain how both Dobby and Kreacher could apparate inside the walls of Hogwarts. Anyone have ideas on this?

[Ryan Pode]

In Book 2 I remember someone stating that House Elves have magic more powerful than wizards.

[Daiquiri]

Surely with all of Hermione's constant reading of Hogwarts: A History, she would have relayed something to Harry and Ron about house elves being able to apparate. Also, with all of her studying and starting S.P.E.W., one would think she would have come across such information.

[Shawn]

Did anyone else think that Harry was under the influence of some kind of anger-inducing potion for the first half of the book? At one point, he fell asleep reading about a potion that can induce irrational anger in a wizard, and they kept repeating that segment over and over. Given all of the screaming he did for the first half of the book, I thought for sure that it was going to be explained like that.

Or he could just be behaving like a typical teenager, I guess. :)

[Daiquiri]

I think the accidental meeting of the Malfoy's in Diagon Alley is what triggered his anger and it just kept building from there with each sequential Draco sighting. Teen angst probably had a hand in it, too. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

well I didn't find him as angry as he was in OOTP. There was as much of the all caps stuff. When he was angry though I wrote it off as teen angst.

[Shawn]

Knowing how Rowling likes to drop little clues, I just thought the chapter in his school book about a potion that can make a wizard uncontrollably angry seemed significant. But I suppose I read too much into it.

[Daiquiri]

Do you remember where in the book that part was? I'll go back and skim over it because I really dont remember that part :(

[jjwr]

I finally got ahold of the book! Only read a bit last night before falling asleep but with luck I'll be able to read the rest of this thread soon!

[Daiquiri]

Cant wait to hear your thoughts about it - happy reading!! :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Cool have fun reading it :) Just don't read any of our spoilers ;)

[jjwr]

Cool have fun reading it Just don't read any of our spoilers

No worries there! As with Star Wars I've gotten quite good at avoiding spoilers, every time I see a article or review of Potter I just back away...just in case!

[Jedi Master Carr]

That is a good plan best way not to spoil the book.

[jjwr]

Well about 150 pages in, so far nothing spectacular yet but one thing has popped up again that really annoys me...

When Mr. Weasley returns from work in the early goings a comment is mentioned how he wishes he could figure out how Planes stay up in the air.

Huh? I know she is trying to convey this as two different worlds but as an educated man is it really that hard to figure out? Have these people never heard of libraries? Its just silly beyond reason that the two are so seperated that people from the Wizard world would know nothing about the muggle world.

[Shawn]

This is emphasized fairly regularly. I think the Wizards pretty much ignore the muggles, on the whole. In Order of the Phoenix, Mrs. Weasley was stunned that Mr. Weasley consented to use crazy muggle healing techniques like "stitches."

[Jedi Master Carr]

Yeah I think wizards ignore the muggle world and know almost nothing about it. As for libraries I am thinking wizard libraries have no books on muggle life.

[Daiquiri]

Or, as it is with all of us, we're usually too busy with own lives to have much time to learn about others. And, with 6 kids, we know how the Weasleys kept busy ;)

[Shawn]

Here's an interesting post (not by me) from another forum, regarding the major plot-twist in the book:
Snapes explaination [at the beginning of Half-Blood Prince] of what happened at the Ministry of Magic doesn't fit with the events either; it is very close though.

He says [to Bellatrix] he was ordered to stay behind so as to not reveal his evilness to Albus and, after all, there was only six teenagers. However then Bellatrix says, 'You well know we were attacked by half the Order of the Phoenix' and then Snape changes the subject to the whereabouts of the location of the OotP's headquaters.

What is missing from this? That Snape was the one who alerted the Order that the kids were in trouble, "When, however, you did not return from your trip into the Forest with Dolores Umbridge, Professor Snape grew worried that you still believed Sirius to be a captive of Lord Voldemort's. He alerted certain Order members at once" - Albus.

In fact if Sirius had listened to Snape, who told him to stay behind, Sirius would not be dead.

Explain this if Snape is evil.

[Jedi Master Carr]

First I think Snape goaded Sirius into going. Second I think at the time he was playing both sides. Dumbledore was still very powerful, if Snape did nothing Dumbledore would have done away with him. I think it was after Dumbledore was weakened that Snape made his decision, he decided that it was in his best interest to side with Voldemort and he double crossed Dumbledore. I don't think he was siding with Voldemort the whole time it was just at the end of HBP he made a choice. Rowling has said that the last three books Dumbledore's line about choosing between what is right and what is easy is going to be important. Snape took the easy road, he saved his own skin, he was unwilling to die for Dumbledore's cause. Now he could still redeem himself and make the right choice but we will see

[Daiquiri]

I think the only way he could ever possibly redeem himself is if he saved or gave up his own life for Harry. None of the other teachers at Hogwarts or the students are going to easily forgive and forget what Snape did to Dumbledore, even if it does turn out that it was what Dumbledore had really wanted him to do.

[jjwr]

I have a question, though if someone answers it in spoiler tags can you let me know outside of the spoiler cause otherwise I won't read it as I don't want to spoil anything further in the book.

Dumbledore's charred/dead hand, I can't seem to find my copy of order of the phoenix so I can't recall if this happened at the end in his fight with Voldemort or if its just something they haven't explained yet. Again I'd look it up but my copy is buried...

[Droo]

The answer you're looking for is found in the Half-Blood Prince, and one of the last chapter's to boot. His withered hand is not explained until practically the end of book six in the following excerpt and has nothing to do with book five, however, read the book first then you will have your answer. Below, is a heavy spoiler for Half-Blood Prince.


Originally posted by jjwr
Dumbledore's charred/dead hand, I can't seem to find my copy of order of the phoenix so I can't recall if this happened at the end in his fight with Voldemort or if its just something they haven't explained yet. Again I'd look it up but my copy is buried...

"You are forgetting .... you have already destroyed one of them. And I have destroyed another."
"You have?" said Harry eagerly.
"Yes, indeed," said Dumbledore, and he raised his blackened burned-looking hand. "The ring, Harry. Marvolo's ring. And a terrible curse there was upon it too. Had it not been - forgive me the lack of seemly modesty - for my own prodigious skill, and for Professor Snape's timely reaction when I returned to Hogwarts, desperately injured, I might not have lived to tell the tale. However, a withered hand does not seem an unreasonable exchange for a seventh of Voldermort's soul. The ring is no longer a Horcrux."

And that is your answer to the withered hand. Tempting to look, isn't it? :D

[Shawn]

And that quote is also more evidence that Snape isn't evil. If he was, he could have just let Dumbledore die then. The whole book seemed full of little clues like that. It's pretty hard to ignore them. If, by some chance, he turns out to be evil, then Rowling would have an awful lot of plot holes/inconsistancies on her hands.

[Droo]

So true. I simply think that Snape turning out to be truly evil would be a bit of a let down really since it's such a cliché. I mean, it's the type of assumption people would make reading Philosopher's Stone for the first time; such a schoolboy error; I am absolutely convinced he is not evil.

[Jedi Master Carr]

As I said he is a player after he healed DD's hand he saw that he was weak and wasn't as powerful as he once was. It was sometime after that event and before the end of the book that he made his decision. The question is do you define that as Evil? I don't think there was no plan it is just that Snape is shifty and he made a choice the easy choice. He decided to save his own pathetic life in the end than make the right choice and sacrifice himself for the good of the world, of course he might get a second chance at that in Book 7. To me JKR hints at this in a recent interview with the webmasters of two fan sites here is the link http://www.mugglenet.com/jkrinterview.shtml. And the exact quote
MA: OK, big big big book six question. Is Snape evil?

JKR: [Almost laughing] Well, you've read the book, what do you think?

ES: She's trying to make you say it categorically.

MA: Well, there are conspiracy theorists, and there are people who will claim -

JKR: Cling to some desperate hope [laughter] -

ES: Yes!

MA: Yes!

ES: Like certain shippers we know!

[All laugh]

JKR: Well, okay, I'm obviously – Harry-Snape is now as personal, if not more so, than Harry-Voldemort. I can't answer that question because it's a spoiler, isn't it, whatever I say, and obviously, it has such a huge impact on what will happen when they meet again that I can't. And let's face it, it's going to launch 10,000 theories and I'm going to get a big kick out of reading them so [laughs] I'm evil but I just like the theories, I love the theories.

ES: I know Dumbledore likes to see the good in people but he seems trusting almost to the point of recklessness sometimes.

[Laughter] Yes, I would agree. I would agree.

ES: How can someone so -

JKR: Intelligent -

ES: be so blind with regard to certain things?

JKR: Well, there is information on that to come, in seven. But I would say that I think it has been demonstrated, particularly in books five and six that immense brainpower does not protect you from emotional mistakes and I think Dumbledore really exemplifies that. In fact, I would tend to think that being very, very intelligent might create some problems and it has done for Dumbledore, because his wisdom has isolated him, and I think you can see that in the books, because where is his equal, where is his confidante, where is his partner? He has none of those things. He’s always the one who gives, he’s always the one who has the insight and has the knowledge. So I think that, while I ask the reader to accept that McGonagall is a very worthy second in command, she is not an equal. You have a slightly circuitous answer, but I can't get much closer than that.

[Droo]

I've read that interview. She didn't confirm or deny anything significant: she is very careful not to do that and that's great because it keeps you guessing.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I think she hints it depends on how you read those hints.

[jjwr]

Wow...all that spoiler text :(

Thanks Droo! I really didn't remember it happening at the end of Phoenix but I wasn't sure. Guess I just gotta wait now.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I just hope you didn't read it.

[Daiquiri]

jjwr...HURRY UP!! Read, man, read!! :lol

[Akrabbim]

I think I've got it. I know why Dumbledore trusts Snape implicitly.

As a condition of Dumbledore trusting Snape, he made Snape make the Unbreakable Vow. Thus, his orders were to do whatever Dumbledore ordered him to do. And that's why he always says he trusts him.

Comments?

[jjwr]

Oh I didn't, I'm an Ace at avoiding spoiler tags :)

I'm working on it! Been swamped getting my site done, but now that its done I'm gonna relax tonight and read. Still a ways to go though, Harry only just had his second meeting with Dumbledore.

[Shawn]

Originally posted by Akrabbim
I think I've got it. I know why Dumbledore trusts Snape implicitly.

As a condition of Dumbledore trusting Snape, he made Snape make the Unbreakable Vow. Thus, his orders were to do whatever Dumbledore ordered him to do. And that's why he always says he trusts him.

Comments? I've considered it. It would make sense, since the unbreakable vow was introduced in this book. Not entirely sure that's something Dumbledore would want to do, though. Then again, he gets really touchy whenever Harry brings up the issue of Snape, so it very well may be.

Taken in that context - that Dumbledore ordered Snape to do whatever had to be done to win the Death Eaters' trust, including killing him - Snape's confrontation with Harry at the end of the book takes on a whole new light. Especially his reaction to being called a "coward."

[Daiquiri]

Hmmmm...

You know, Ak, thats an angle I hadnt thought of - great point! NBot that Im agreeing or even disagreeing, but still...nice work! :)

Shawn, too. you fleshed it out even more. gives me much to think about.

[Droo]

Originally posted by Akrabbim
I think I've got it. I know why Dumbledore trusts Snape implicitly.

As a condition of Dumbledore trusting Snape, he made Snape make the Unbreakable Vow. Thus, his orders were to do whatever Dumbledore ordered him to do. And that's why he always says he trusts him.

Comments?

I personally think this is unlikely. Were this to be the case, it goes completely against the character of Dumbledore because it implies that he only trusts Snape because Snape has no other choice but to remain loyal to him. That is false loyalty and I see the Unbreakable Vow as something particularly dark in the wizarding world as it strips the individual of choice and free will. The Unbreakable Vow is something forged from a lack of trust and it is simply something I don't see Dumbledore being involved with...

Remember, after all, he knew of Draco's mission and rather than foiling his plans, Dumbledore allows Draco to proceed unhindered throughout the school year and thus risking the safety, at cost, of his students so as to protect the Malfoy family from Voldermort. Ultimately, this is at the cost of his own life. That is the type of man Dumbledore is - there is no way, in my mind, that he would delve into something as shallow as an Unbreakable Vow.

And, since I've explicitly expressed that I still don't believe for a second that Snape is evil, I have always felt that his reaction to being accused of being a coward as testament to that: he is outraged because Harry has no comprehension of the lengths to which Snape is going in order to continue the efforts towards bringing down Voldemort and his Death Eaters. I believe Snape, at that moment, was truly sorrowful for having to kill the man who had put so much trust in him, despite it being the neccessary course of action.

Regardless, Snape is a truly awesome character; so complex and mysterious and fascinating. Can't wait to unravel the last thread o mystery around him in the last entry to the series in a few years time.

[Akrabbim]

I see your point. I was thinking that perhaps Snape insisted on the Unbreakable Vow himself, so that Dumbledore would always trust him. And remember, Fred and George knew about the Vow, and tried to get Ron to make one, so I don't think it's all that dark of magic.

And though you're correct that I doubt Dumbledore would do something like that, the main reason I'm beginning to think I was wrong is because when Harry asked if Dumbledore was SURE that he trusted Snape, he had to think about it for a second. If he had made the Vow, it would have been automatic.

And again, I'm asking for comments here.

[Doc Milo]

What if Dumbledore's death is akin to Gandolf's in the FotR. Not that Dumbledore is some kind of angel who just transforms into "the White" instead of "the Grey" but perhaps his death was faked, to give Voldemort a sense of security, and Snape a way out, so that Dumbledore can continue his fight in secret. So, the last scene where there is a flash of light and the coffin surrounds Dumbledore could also have been Dumbledore's "escape." I throw this out there as a possiblilty, although I do not believe it will be the case. I fall in on the side that Snape evaluated the situation after Order of the Phoenix, and decided to fall in with Voldemort once again. Up to that time, he was playing "double agent" gaining both Voldemort's and Dumbledore's trust.

[Jedi Master Carr]

only problem with that is that Rowling basically said in an interview that he is dead, I can't remember the exact wording but it sounds like Dumbledore didn't fake his death. Now if he can come back a different way, that I don't know.

[Droo]

I think Dumbledore is most definately dead. The Death Eaters would know if the Avada Kedavra curse had been faked right before their eyes. But that aside, Dumbledore simply had to die; this ensures that Harry really will be alone now when he faces Voldemort in the last book. He cannot rely on Dumbledore anymore and that huge safety net has gone now and it makes the whole prospect of the last novel that much more exilerating and thrilling.

[Akrabbim]

That, and the fact that his portrait appeared in the headmaster's office. I'd assume that's an automatic thing that happens upon death.

Though, I am confused as to why the tomb magically appeared. Was there some sort of spell on the cloak they had him wrapped in?

[Shawn]

And the spell on Harry ceased the moment he died.

Question: Has Rowling stated, recently, that the next book will be the last? It seems like there's an awful lot to cover, what with 4 more Horcruxes left. I'd be a tiny bit disappointed if the beginning of the series was so slow and then everything was wrapped up so quickly.

[Akrabbim]

Well, she has always sworn that there would only be seven. Maybe it'll be a massive 900-page tome or something. Not that I'd mind, honestly.

And, I just noticed... does it seem odd to anyone else that they didn't try to capture Harry at the end? Doesn't Voldemort need his blood to become immortal?

[Jaime Tomahawk]

Rowling stated she'll take as long with the last book as she felt necessary. So yes, I would expect something huge.

[Daiquiri]

In an interview I saw of JKR just last week, she already has the 7th book completely written :)

[Droo]

You must've misinterpretted. She has started writing pieces of the last book but wont truly get started until next year. She is giving her new baby a year of Mummy Time. One thing is certain though, she has had the last chapter of the final book written ever since she wrote Philosopher's Stone. The last word in the Harry Potter series of novels is "scar". She said this may change once she has finished writing the whole thing though.

What she may have said in that interview is that she knows exactly what is going to happen in book seven and has plotted it all out but completely written? Not on your Nelly! If that were the case it would be out by Christmas, which it wont. :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Have to say there are some crazy fans out there read this
slight spoilers mostly of the romance kind


http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/c/a/2005/08/03/DDG0RE1DDI1.DTL

Really the Harry/ Hermione people are delusional, especially now come on like I will never read another book because they didn't end up together, geez they sound like certain Star Wars fans who roam the theforce.net boards rouging hate against Lucas. IMO people like that aren't real fans and might need to step away from the book and starting getting a real life.

[Shawn]

I saw people really upset that Harry didn't get together with Draco and Lupin didn't hook up with Snape. I mean, seriously angry. My mind is boggled.

[Jedi Master Carr]

LOL yeah or what about the the Siruis-Lupin people. Seriously I was rooting for Ron and Hermione but if hadn't have happened I would have went oh well and been fine, anybody that gets angry over something like this has some problems

[jjwr]

Yay Just finished! Awesome ending. But its very late and I have work early so I'll post some thoughts tomorrow!

[Darth McBain]

I finally finished the book - good stuff... Now I can go and actually read through this thread. :)

[Dasquian Belargic]

ARGH CHRIST. I made a point not to come into this thread, not to read ANY spoilers, but nooooo... I was over at my grans a couple of days ago and some old woman says, "so and so is still traumatized over the death of Dumbledore." :headache

[Shawn]

Eh, don't sweat it too much. Not only did I have that spoiled for me, but also who did it. I would have enjoyed the book more if I didn't read the whole thing waiting for it to happen, but I still liked it.

Though, going into it with that foreknowledge, it seemed like the entire book was just leading up to that moment. Most of what was there just seemed like it was filling space and killing time until the inevitable outcome.

OotP was better, IMO.

[Jedi Master Carr]

I disagree I liked HBP better than OOTP. OOTP dragged way too much for me in comparison, plus I hated Umbridge and the whole thing with her made some of it not as fun. Right now I say HBP is my 3 favorite.

[Shawn]

At least stuff actually went on in OotP. HBP just seemed like exposition, exposition, and more exposition.

Either GoF or OotP is my favorite, I'm not sure which.

[Daiquiri]

GoF is my fav, with PoA second, then OotP.

jjwr, we're still waiting to hear from you :)

[jjwr]

I should be chiming in tomorrow, just haven't had a chance yet :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

My order at the moment, is GOF, POA, and HBP and then probably OOTP. I don't think that much went on it was a lot of exposition as well. Really the big event of that book was the prophecy was hinted at all book and it wasn't till the end it happened.

[jjwr]

First off, so far in order for me its Goblet of Fire, Order of the Phoenix, HBP, Prisoner, Chamber, Sorcers Stone.

Now for the rest...



Wow! I didn't know for sure that it would be Dumbledore that died but even before people started talking I was almost 99% sure of it. For Harry to do what he needs to do then Dumbledore needs to be gone.

I enjoyed the book quite a bit, a bit slow in parts and for the most part nothing really happened until about page 500 but Tom Riddle parts were excellent, some of the others not nearly as much so.

Things I didn't like...

1. Ron & Hermoine....GET IT OVER WITH ALREADY!!! The whole Lavender Brown thing had no point in this book other than to fill up pages. Since prisoner its been pretty obvious the two would get together so why keep dragging it on? At the end with Hermoine & Ron hugging at the funeral you finally get your first taste of it. At this point though they are 17, enough with the 12yr old super shyness and never quite talking to each other.

On the flip side the Harry & Ginny thing was very well done!

2. It would be nice to see Harry a bit more competent with Magic by now, he has done a lot better but it seems even though he tought everyone in the D.A. when it comes to practal use of magic he can only use the spell to free someone. The slashing spell on Malfoy was of course a exceptoin but for someone who obviously has a big battle ahead of him I hope he picks up some skills quick!

That was pretty much it, I enjoyed the rest quite a bit!

Now obviously the real question is the Snape issue, I have to agree with the Theory that Snape is still a good guy. Him being a bad guys steals too much of Voldemorts thunder.

I know a lot of this has been covered but heres why I think he's good.

When Voldemort returned he said he was in trouble and needs Severus, he won't say it but Harry knows he is dying and without Snape he's dead. By the time he reaches the Astronomy tower he is additionally weaked and requests Snape before he will even enter the tower to look into the Dark Mark. This tells you he is already almost dead, what else would stop him from even entering his own school?

By the time Snape arrives on the tower he's pretty much dead, there is no way Snape can get him what he needs at this point, its just not going to happen. Dumbledore knows he is dead so why take Snape and possibly Harry down with him? As soon as Snape shows up his tone instantly changes, from his normaly tone to a pleading tone. Dumbledore would not plead for his life to anyone, its not in his character, he is pleading for something else.

Up to this point Harry has made the Occlumency point to Dumbledore and it gets mentioned quite a bit, how could Snape have shown up there and not been reading Dumbledore¡¦s mind considering the situation? Everything that needed to be said was said and Snape did what he had to. The Vow was also in effect, Dumbledore knew that Snape had made it and if he didn¡¦t die then Snape would, as he¡¦s already going to die why take his trusted agent with him?

When Snape left he pulled all of the Death-Eaters out as quickly as possible and seemed to try and minimize the damage. As has already been discussed he even seemed to be trying to teach Harry how to fight properly and when called a Coward he replied as if telling Harry he had no idea how much he has given up.

The other thought I had is we really don¡¦t find out why Dumbledore trusts Snape. When Harry reveals to the others what he feels is the reason they rightly doubt why that would be enough. When Harry discussed that with Dumbledore he never said that was the reason he explicity trusted him, after that story Harry pressed him and he refused to speak on it any further so we never find out what the real reason is.

The question is what did Dumbledore have and is it strong enough that he would kill Dumbledore but still stay loyal to the Order of the Phoenix. Its possible that Snape insisted on a unbreakable vow of his own, possibly to protect the child of the people he possibly helped kill by telling Voldemort about the prophecy?

Now as to the other things¡K

1. R.A.B ¡V Regullus Black? He would make sense and I can¡¦t think of anyone else who follows those initials. Obviously he didn¡¦t finish the job as the ring was still a Horcrux when Dumbledore destroyed it. Further possible proof of this ¡V in OotP on page #116 when they are cleaning the house they come across a locket that they can¡¦t open. Very possible that it¡¦s the horcrux that he either already removed or just hid? I didn¡¦t find that one, read it on another board ƒº

2. Draco ¡V I was quite happy with his turn at the end, I hope he has a further turn in the final book.

3. Snape still bad? As for if Snape is still bad, a few things make me wonder. Why did he knock out flitwick when he left his office? If he didn¡¦t know the situation why would he have knocked him out unless he had more of a idea of what was happening and was planning on the ¡§kill¡¨? This one I definetly can¡¦t explain.

4. Then the reason why Dumbledore trusts him, the problem is it would have to be really strong to keep him on the side of good after the actual death of Dumbledore.

5. Dumbledore is dead, even if the Death was done to protect Snapes secret Dumbledore himself said he needed Snape to survive so the potion was going to kill him so one way or the other he¡¦s dead.

Ok thats it for now :)

[Jedi Master Carr]

Ok Snape I don't really know. I feel he did to save his own skin, however I think there is more. There are theories that perhaps Snape loved Lilly and that could have been the reason that DD trusted him, it is really hard to say. I could see him redeeming himself in the end though. Now like you were saying about Ron and Hermione not sure why she hasn't just put them together unless she is setting up something big for them in book 7, which is possible. I am hoping at Bill and Fleur's wedding the two of them will do something that makes us know they are an item for good. I agree with you about Harry and Ginny.
Also I want to express another reason why I thought this book was better than OOTP. I personally liked Harry better in this book. In the previous book Harry was way too moody for me. I got tired of him yelling and sulky. In this book he seemed much more mature, he was more determined to stop Voldemort as well. He realized that his parents, Sirius, and Dumbledore all sacrificed their lives for him and he was now going to stop Voldemort at what ever the cost even if it means his own life. I just saw Harry as a more heroic character now. This was his final step on the Hero's Journey, except for the knowing exactly how to kill Voldemort he has what he needs to beat him. Also I loved the Horcruxes I thought that was a great touch and great way to come up with to explain Voldemort's near immortality. Still right now I say it is my third favorite of the series, although it is very close to POA to me.

[Figrin D'an]

Finally finished reading this a couple of weeks after having picked it up... so hard to find time to read sometimes... anyway...

I enjoyed it, although it was long on exposition. Lots of long conversations for the first 3/4 of the book. The action only really picked up once Harry and Dumbledore traveled to the cave to find the locket Horcrux. It wasn't the most exciting entry in the series, but it was a necessary step to completing the overall story. This was a set-up book. It's whole point was to set the stage for the final segment of the story, which I expect to be overflowing lots of confrontations and battles. Lots of things that simply had to happen before Harry could finally begin the final journey to destroy Voldemort were taken care of in this book, the biggest of which was obviously removing Dumbledore from the picture as Harry's protector. (Hate to say it, but I saw that coming since Book 4.)

Book 7 should be quite a bit different from the others, given the setup for it at the end of Book 6. I do have to laugh at some fans of the series who seem to get progressively more "upset" as the books get darker and more dangerous for the characters. I'm not sure what they expect from a storyline that is basically a hybrid of a coming-of-age tale and quest heroism. I think a lot of them could stand to read "The Hero with a Thousand Faces," though many are either too young or too ignorant. Ah, well.

Good read. Was well worth it, as have been the other books in the series. "Gobet of Fire" is still my personal fav, though.

[jjwr]

Just found this on mugglenet.com

Mysterious initials possibly confirmed
The Harry Potter Lexicon has reportedly confirmed that the mysterious three initials in Half-Blood Prince is indeed --Regulus Arcturus Black--. We hadn't known his middle name until now which is defined as "the fourth brightest star in the sky and the brightest star in the constellation Boötes, approximately 36 light-years from Earth."

It was as I had assumed, just curious where they're going to go with it.

[Jedi Master Carr]

Well I thought it was him, I am curious about some of it myself, like what he did with the locket. It is kind of neat that Regauls actually redeemed himself in the end, too bad Sirius didn't find out before he died.